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enilria
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Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:12 pm

Well, we all expected it. With Fornaro at NK it was only a matter of time till the classics from FL came into the NK fold. I'm not sure it will work as well as it did at FL now that CLE is de-hubbed, however. I wonder if G4 will stay?

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winginit
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:18 pm

One of many interesting moves by NK recently. Not sure if there was a separate thread on this, but for the Winter they've also reduced ASMs in and out of DFW to the tune of 20% compared to last year.

Possible vindication for AA who, by committing to match their fares, may be driving them to markets without AA competition?
 
lakeeffect
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:20 pm

Good for CAK as this service essentially replaces the lost WN Florida routes. The bigger question is what does WN do now at CAK? Their remaining 3x daily to ATL with connections to Florida will probably be a tough sell against G4 and NK nonstops.
 
fsafsx
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:36 pm

I really hope their next move is Flint. Its time they expand in other places other than Detroit.
 
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enilria
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:38 pm

lakeeffect wrote:
Good for CAK as this service essentially replaces the lost WN Florida routes. The bigger question is what does WN do now at CAK? Their remaining 3x daily to ATL with connections to Florida will probably be a tough sell against G4 and NK nonstops.

I think WN and G4 will get kicked in the teeth by this.

The question is really only how much do either want to lose defending their turf vs how committed NK is?

I'm guessing RLF won't leave easily because he has memories of the past in CAK. WN should have left already. WN won't close just one station if they close any it will be several. This could be the catalyst to unload a bunch of junk and we know they are parking a ton of old 737s in September 2017. So, they have a choice to make, close the FNT/ICT/CAK/etc type markets in Sep 2017 or double down and add back flights. I suspect they will fold and exit along with a couple of other stations that NK will also probably enter.

G4 will also lose a lot here. It is virtually impossible to make money against a ULCC flying to alternate airports when the ULCC is at the primaries. They might keep some oddballs like SAV or GPT, but I think G4 exits the overlapping markets because they probably weren't that good to begin with.

Overall, I think this is a bad move for everybody. The whole AirTran justification for CAK is long gone. Fares are cheap at CLE and there's no good reason to trek out to CAK unless you live near it, and that is a lot smaller traffic base than before. This de-stabilizes WN and G4 for a minimal benefit and I'm not sure NK will be that committed either. When RLF retires in 2.5 years I question how long CAK will last.
 
msycajun
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:39 pm

Wow. Definitely a big change in strategy with CLE just an hour up the road and LBE not that far either. Will MKE be NK's next city? One thing I missed after WN drew down CAK was cheap LGA and BOS nonstop service. Wonder if they'd give those a try.

On a personal note, I hope that NK will consider CLE/CAK to MSY soon.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:55 pm

Guess I must have missed the announcement that Fornaro was only going to be at NK for another 2.5 years?

Frontier 14
 
msycajun
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:05 pm

WN is already all but out of CAK now. CLE may have low fares, but it has high costs (something like $17 per enplanement) so CAK allows them to grow in the area and save some money doing it. For a lot of people in the area CAK is just as easy or easier to get to than CLE, even more so if you consider YNG and other small metros. Plus CLE has had parking issues as its O&D rose following the UA de-hub. CAK has plenty of cheap parking.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:06 pm

I figure they'll announce BKG routes soon. Maybe they wait for that one till a possible CS100 order to fill the B717 void.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:08 pm

fsafsx wrote:
I really hope their next move is Flint. Its time they expand in other places other than Detroit.


:roll:
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kcrwflyer
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:11 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
I figure they'll announce BKG routes soon. Maybe they wait for that one till a possible CS100 order to fill the B717 void.


Of all places FL flew, why are they soon in your opinion?
 
toltommy
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Has WN given up any ticket counter/ops space at CAK? The airport built FL their own bagroom area. The lobby has been expanded, but I don't think there was much in the way of open ticket counter or ops space. When F9 pulled out, it created some open space, but I'd guess that G4 took it? Gate space shouldn't be an issue since WN doesn't use most of what was built for them now.
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:35 pm

flymco753 wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
I really hope their next move is Flint. Its time they expand in other places other than Detroit.


:roll:


Not sure who is the biggest troll on the forum any more. FSAFSX with his Flint boner or IPFreely with his anti Delta Connection nonsense. Either way, FNT makes no sense to add. Hell, can you even get clean water at the airport in Flint?

-DiamondFlyer
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toltommy
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:39 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
I really hope their next move is Flint. Its time they expand in other places other than Detroit.


:roll:


Not sure who is the biggest troll on the forum any more. FSAFSX with his Flint boner or IPFreely with his anti Delta Connection nonsense. Either way, FNT makes no sense to add. Hell, can you even get clean water at the airport in Flint?

-DiamondFlyer


Ouch. FWAERJ is gonna be mad that you left home out. :D
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enilria
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:39 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
Guess I must have missed the announcement that Fornaro was only going to be at NK for another 2.5 years?
Frontier 14

3 year contract. It said at the time he was announced that he would be transitional to another CEO because the "bench" was not ready for the role yet. Whether they evolve on that is possible, but I have seen nothing contradicting it since the initial comments.
WaywardMemphian wrote:
I figure they'll announce BKG routes soon. Maybe they wait for that one till a possible CS100 order to fill the B717 void.

Could be. I think that would be a better market for G4. Not sure why G4 and BKG don't get along. I wonder if G4's packaging arm wants more pricing control than the hotels are willing to surrender.
kcrwflyer wrote:
Of all places FL flew, why are they soon in your opinion?

I actually see PHF and MKE. I think FNT's day has passed. Arguably CAK's has as well, but it started from a bigger base. I doubt FNT had more than one good route at FL.

Having said all of this. The ULCC market has been notoriously poor in anything but top markets. NK has even struggled in MCI which I would argue is a borderline top market.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:57 pm

enilria wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
I figure they'll announce BKG routes soon. Maybe they wait for that one till a possible CS100 order to fill the B717 void.

Could be. I think that would be a better market for G4. Not sure why G4 and BKG don't get along. I wonder if G4's packaging arm wants more pricing control than the hotels are willing to surrender.


Splitting the difference between XNA and SGF where G4 already has ops at both. AirTran had basically grown BKG into well over 100,000 enplanements in 2012. Same sweetheart deal as before. If US 412 across Northwest Arkansas was of better quality, it would be a no brainer.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:15 pm

msycajun wrote:
WN is already all but out of CAK now. CLE may have low fares, but it has high costs (something like $17 per enplanement) so CAK allows them to grow in the area and save some money doing it.. Plus CLE has had parking issues as its O&D rose following the UA de-hub. CAK has plenty of cheap parking.


$17 is an average; UA pays substantially more, others pay less. Probably $2 to $4 less, based on the CPE before UA's reductions. Parking at CLE is also much better since the Red and Blue Lots are operating again after getting canopies installed.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:23 pm

Totally wrong about this, I thought Fornaro would keep NK's NE Ohio operation consolidated at CLE. I'm with Enrilia WN is toast at CAK and it's probably time to move what little is left to CLE.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:17 pm

toltommy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
flymco753 wrote:

:roll:


Not sure who is the biggest troll on the forum any more. FSAFSX with his Flint boner or IPFreely with his anti Delta Connection nonsense. Either way, FNT makes no sense to add. Hell, can you even get clean water at the airport in Flint?

-DiamondFlyer


Ouch. FWAERJ is gonna be mad that you left home out. :D


To be honest, I expect NK to enter IND soon, as it was a big city for FL back in the day and because fares there have skyrocketed since the WN/FL merger. Even though G4 is there, IND is offering big incentives to any airline that starts 6 routes from there over a two-year period (two of the routes can be seasonal) - a package that WN and G4 have already taken advantage of.

But I do think that FWA is also on NK's radar because FL was this close to adding FWA before the domestic new city freeze brought on by the WN/FL merger.
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lakeeffect
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:33 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Totally wrong about this, I thought Fornaro would keep NK's NE Ohio operation consolidated at CLE. I'm with Enrilia WN is toast at CAK and it's probably time to move what little is left to CLE.


I think NK will do well at CAK and can see them growing further next year ... If WN pulls out.

I think G4 will struggle with SFB at CAK. With all the daily service to MCO from CLE and now daily NK CAK-MCO service (and Saturday WN service) what market is G4 trying to attract with 2-3 day per week service to SFB?
 
jetlanta
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:41 pm

enilria wrote:
I think FNT's day has passed. Arguably CAK's has as well, but it started from a bigger base. I doubt FNT had more than one good route at FL.


Ahh. So which one was good? And which ones weren't? I'm very interested in your analysis.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:53 pm

It's good that CAK got Spirit, but I don't think it's making much sense with CLE having a substantial amount of NK flights, so what will NK do? CAK and CLE? Or move to CAK from CLE?
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enilria
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:15 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
enilria wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
I figure they'll announce BKG routes soon. Maybe they wait for that one till a possible CS100 order to fill the B717 void.

Could be. I think that would be a better market for G4. Not sure why G4 and BKG don't get along. I wonder if G4's packaging arm wants more pricing control than the hotels are willing to surrender.


Splitting the difference between XNA and SGF where G4 already has ops at both. AirTran had basically grown BKG into well over 100,000 enplanements in 2012. Same sweetheart deal as before. If US 412 across Northwest Arkansas was of better quality, it would be a no brainer.

It's different. G4 treats XNA and SGF as an origin market. BKG is a destination market like GPT or PGD.

jetlanta wrote:
enilria wrote:
I think FNT's day has passed. Arguably CAK's has as well, but it started from a bigger base. I doubt FNT had more than one good route at FL.


Ahh. So which one was good? And which ones weren't? I'm very interested in your analysis.

ATL and MCO were the only routes that operated daily year-round. If the others were so great wouldn't they be more than seasonal or non-daily?

I would have argued that ATL was better than MCO since it had a lot more frequency, but WN dropped FNT-ATL very quickly after the merger which indicates they were not happy with it. So, MCO was likely the only strong market.
 
kcrwflyer
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:35 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
enilria wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
I figure they'll announce BKG routes soon. Maybe they wait for that one till a possible CS100 order to fill the B717 void.

Could be. I think that would be a better market for G4. Not sure why G4 and BKG don't get along. I wonder if G4's packaging arm wants more pricing control than the hotels are willing to surrender.


Splitting the difference between XNA and SGF where G4 already has ops at both. AirTran had basically grown BKG into well over 100,000 enplanements in 2012. Same sweetheart deal as before. If US 412 across Northwest Arkansas was of better quality, it would be a no brainer.


I'm not saying your assessment of the market is incorrect, but there's plenty of lower hanging fruit for an airline like NK.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:54 pm

flymco753 wrote:
It's good that CAK got Spirit, but I don't think it's making much sense with CLE having a substantial amount of NK flights, so what will NK do? CAK and CLE? Or move to CAK from CLE?


CAK has a limited growth potential even with the recent terminal expansion. If NK brings the CLE operation down to CAK and then goes forward with a large expansion it will be limited by gate utilization at some point. Granted, WN is barely a shell operation at CAK now and G4 isn't that large so there is room to grow.

Maybe they're thinking there is enough demand from both airports. It'll be also be interesting to see what WN/UA will defend from each airport. This may be quite an experiment.

What's weird is that when Fornaro was FL head he said they would be interested in moving the FL CAK operation to CLE if UA left. Go figure.

One thing for sure, this is great news for NE Ohio pax.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:27 pm

enilria wrote:
lakeeffect wrote:
Good for CAK as this service essentially replaces the lost WN Florida routes. The bigger question is what does WN do now at CAK? Their remaining 3x daily to ATL with connections to Florida will probably be a tough sell against G4 and NK nonstops.

I think WN and G4 will get kicked in the teeth by this.

The question is really only how much do either want to lose defending their turf vs how committed NK is?

I'm guessing RLF won't leave easily because he has memories of the past in CAK. WN should have left already. WN won't close just one station if they close any it will be several. This could be the catalyst to unload a bunch of junk and we know they are parking a ton of old 737s in September 2017. So, they have a choice to make, close the FNT/ICT/CAK/etc type markets in Sep 2017 or double down and add back flights. I suspect they will fold and exit along with a couple of other stations that NK will also probably enter.

G4 will also lose a lot here. It is virtually impossible to make money against a ULCC flying to alternate airports when the ULCC is at the primaries. They might keep some oddballs like SAV or GPT, but I think G4 exits the overlapping markets because they probably weren't that good to begin with.

Overall, I think this is a bad move for everybody. The whole AirTran justification for CAK is long gone. Fares are cheap at CLE and there's no good reason to trek out to CAK unless you live near it, and that is a lot smaller traffic base than before. This de-stabilizes WN and G4 for a minimal benefit and I'm not sure NK will be that committed either. When RLF retires in 2.5 years I question how long CAK will last.

I'm going to have to agree with enilria on this. WN will most likely leave CAK and FNT the next year and consolidate operations at both CLE and DTW. I also think that DAY maybe closed and replaced with service to CVG. So in short, WN would concentrate all Ohio service around CLE, CMH, and CVG and shutdown CAK and DAY along with FNT and possibly GRR. I see this happening no later than the Sept. '17 schedule release.
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phluser
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:37 pm

flymco753 wrote:
It's good that CAK got Spirit, but I don't think it's making much sense with CLE having a substantial amount of NK flights, so what will NK do? CAK and CLE? Or move to CAK from CLE?


enilria wrote:
I'm not sure NK will be that committed either. When RLF retires in 2.5 years I question how long CAK will last.



The CAK and CLE operations might wind up being similar to their ops at ACY and PHL. Perhaps NK's CEO had ACY in mind when viewing CAK. ACY flights to Florida are still full and parking lots full in March/Spring Break.

And to avoid fare matching, there might be other opportunities at CAK. I think NK might try CAK-BWI as a low fare option to WN's CLE-BWI, while WN won't know whether to fare match or ignore them. It'd also be interesting if NK could try CAK-DFW as AA doesn't fly that route, while avoiding any fare war with AA.

I'm uncertain if NK would desire FNT however and pair it with DTW. It could work but NK might want to keep the critical mass just at DTW.

On the other hand, I think its likely NK will consider opening up at PIT (a primary airport) as PIT's fees have decreased and NK is ceding business to F9 and G4 by not directly serving PIT. It could keep both PIT and LBE for awhile. But I think LBE might has a greater chance of being consolidated (i.e. deleted).
Last edited by phluser on Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
lakeeffect
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:44 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's good that CAK got Spirit, but I don't think it's making much sense with CLE having a substantial amount of NK flights, so what will NK do? CAK and CLE? Or move to CAK from CLE?


CAK has a limited growth potential even with the recent terminal expansion. If NK brings the CLE operation down to CAK and then goes forward with a large expansion it will be limited by gate utilization at some point. Granted, WN is barely a shell operation at CAK now and G4 isn't that large so there is room to grow.

Maybe they're thinking there is enough demand from both airports. It'll be also be interesting to see what WN/UA will defend from each airport. This may be quite an experiment.

What's weird is that when Fornaro was FL head said he would be interested in moving the FL CAK operation to CLE if UA left. Go figure.

One thing for sure, this is great news for NE Ohio pax.


I think it will be interesting to see how the pricing compares at both CLE and CAK to Florida on the same NK routes.

I think NK's low fares will be attractive compared to WN's fares this past winter. WN averaged about a 71 load factor at CAK this Jan-Apr. The airport as a whole also averaged about a 71 load factor for the same period, so I do wonder what fares WN is going to have to charge to fill up planes alongside NK? It doesn't help that the connecting itineraries through ATL on WN are predominantly leisure either. It'll be interesting to see if WN does any changes at CAK with the next schedule extension next week.
 
phluser
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:34 pm

lakeeffect wrote:
I do wonder what fares WN is going to have to charge to fill up planes alongside NK? It doesn't help that the connecting itineraries through ATL on WN are predominantly leisure either. It'll be interesting to see if WN does any changes at CAK with the next schedule extension next week.


What percent of CAK-ATL on WN's flights are O&D vs. connecting? It seems to me that with WN pricing fares at $59 on CAK-ATL, atleast WN is trying for O&D. But, if a great % of connecting traffic is to Florida, then it'd seem like whatever WN has working on CAK-ATL might not work any longer with the increase of nonstops to Florida from a competitor.

My thinking is it would make sense for WN to quickly move those CAK-ATL flights to CLE-ATL. Atleast with NK opening at CAK, WN wouldn't have the backlash of bad PR by closing a station because NK is moving in at the same time. WN has been resilient competing on a multi carrier ATL-PHL environment, where it's not strong in PHL. So, I think it can compete on ATL-CLE if it can from PHL.
 
msycajun
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:39 pm

WN hasn't shown much willingness to compete in CLE in particular and is generally tight on aircraft. If CAK gets cut, I think best case would be maybe 1-2 ATL moved to CLE, and maybe HOU or MSY. That would give them some decent Florida and Texas connections and good O&D without so much ULCC competition. More realistically I think CAK will end up being cut and CLE flat.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:26 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
It's good that CAK got Spirit, but I don't think it's making much sense with CLE having a substantial amount of NK flights, so what will NK do? CAK and CLE? Or move to CAK from CLE?


CAK has a limited growth potential even with the recent terminal expansion. If NK brings the CLE operation down to CAK and then goes forward with a large expansion it will be limited by gate utilization at some point. Granted, WN is barely a shell operation at CAK now and G4 isn't that large so there is room to grow.

Maybe they're thinking there is enough demand from both airports. It'll be also be interesting to see what WN/UA will defend from each airport. This may be quite an experiment.

What's weird is that when Fornaro was FL head said he would be interested in moving the FL CAK operation to CLE if UA left. Go figure.

One thing for sure, this is great news for NE Ohio pax.


It's going to be a very interesting game that's for sure!
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DeltaRules
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:54 am

FWAERJ" wrote:
To be honest, I expect NK to enter IND soon, as it was a big city for FL back in the day and because fares there have skyrocketed since the WN/FL merger. Even though G4 is there, IND is offering big incentives to any airline that starts 6 routes from there over a two-year period (two of the routes can be seasonal) - a package that WN and G4 have already taken advantage of.

But I do think that FWA is also on NK's radar because FL was this close to adding FWA before the domestic new city freeze brought on by the WN/FL merger.


I wonder if Fornaro's retreading means NK sees DAY in their future. FL had a decent operation there well before trying CMH (they were at DAY in the early 2000s or even late 1990s and only started CMH in 2008) and there's a similar climate with WN killing the former FL operation and G4 fairly new in town.
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:46 am

Interestingly enough the Youngstown Vindicator had a front page piece today on a CAK announcement, before anyone else in media reported anything about an announcement today. Nonetheless, the reporter who did the story is having a follow up story tomorrow where she has said she spoke with Allegiant regarding the news. Curious to see how they respond...
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:03 pm

phluser wrote:
On the other hand, I think its likely NK will consider opening up at PIT (a primary airport) as PIT's fees have decreased and NK is ceding business to F9 and G4 by not directly serving PIT. It could keep both PIT and LBE for awhile. But I think LBE might has a greater chance of being consolidated (i.e. deleted).

This is going to happen sooner rather than later. There isn't a lot of room to expand at LBE.
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flymco753
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:39 pm

dabpit wrote:
phluser wrote:
On the other hand, I think its likely NK will consider opening up at PIT (a primary airport) as PIT's fees have decreased and NK is ceding business to F9 and G4 by not directly serving PIT. It could keep both PIT and LBE for awhile. But I think LBE might has a greater chance of being consolidated (i.e. deleted).

This is going to happen sooner rather than later. There isn't a lot of room to expand at LBE.


You know what's interesting is there has been a rumor circulating that if NK moved to PIT they would add DTW. I looked up PDEW and prices, believe it or not it's very doable. On top of that, MCO and FLL for sure.
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phluser
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:19 pm

flymco753 wrote:
if NK moved to PIT they would add DTW. I looked up PDEW and prices, believe it or not it's very doable.


I know we are getting OT from CAK, but isn't PIT to DTW a very drive-able distance? I'd think that would not favor the prospects of that route.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:51 pm

msycajun wrote:
WN hasn't shown much willingness to compete in CLE in particular and is generally tight on aircraft. If CAK gets cut, I think best case would be maybe 1-2 ATL moved to CLE, and maybe HOU or MSY. That would give them some decent Florida and Texas connections and good O&D without so much ULCC competition. More realistically I think CAK will end up being cut and CLE flat.


That's not entirely correct. WN has slowly grown the CLE operation over the last 18 months as UA has pulled out routes post-hub. Not saying they are going nuts but I think it's very possible to see some of the adds like you just mentioned.
 
lakeeffect
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:35 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
msycajun wrote:
WN hasn't shown much willingness to compete in CLE in particular and is generally tight on aircraft. If CAK gets cut, I think best case would be maybe 1-2 ATL moved to CLE, and maybe HOU or MSY. That would give them some decent Florida and Texas connections and good O&D without so much ULCC competition. More realistically I think CAK will end up being cut and CLE flat.


That's not entirely correct. WN has slowly grown the CLE operation over the last 18 months as UA has pulled out routes post-hub. Not saying they are going nuts but I think it's very possible to see some of the adds like you just mentioned.


It's tough to say whether those adds were a result of UA drawing down the hub or just natural growth by WN. As an example, IND, PIT, and CMH all saw more WN service added during the same time than CLE did. WN was operating about 20 flights per day from CLE in 2007. It dropped down to 10 in winter after the recession and has been creeping back up. With increasing load factors at CLE, WN is now carrying more pax than ever before even when they had about 5 more flights per day a decade ago. That's likely a good sign for more natural adds here or there. I think many were hoping that WN would turn CLE into a 20-25 flight a day station, which is about what the combined CLE and CAK operation was in 2014 when UA dehubbed.

With WN in Northeast Ohio it's always a question mark. Who knows, maybe they'll bring back CAK-MCO/TPA with the next extension to defend their turf. Now that would be interesting to see unfold!
 
phluser
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:47 pm

Along with CAK-BWI and CAK-DFW which are un-served directly and target large cities not too far away, It'd be interesting to see NK were to offer a seasonal CAK-DEN. CAK-DEN has been flown by F9 and WN in the not too distant past with some interest by WN that pushed F9 out of the route with WN ultimately pulling out itself. This would be for a scavenger like NK to pick it up.
 
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dabpit
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:38 pm

flymco753 wrote:
You know what's interesting is there has been a rumor circulating that if NK moved to PIT they would add DTW. I looked up PDEW and prices, believe it or not it's very doable. On top of that, MCO and FLL for sure.

If they moved to PIT then DTW would be a nice add. NK already flies LBE to MCO/FLL.

phluser wrote:
I know we are getting OT from CAK, but isn't PIT to DTW a very drive-able distance? I'd think that would not favor the prospects of that route.

I'd much rather fly than to drive for that route.
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MesaFlyGuy
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Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:53 am

I'm wondering if we haven't seen the last of the adds for CAK. Looking at the schedules, CAK-MYR leaves at 0700 and returns landing in Akron at 1100. No other flights from Akron line up with those times. In addition, MYR is the only route the uses the a320; everything else is on the 319. Now I know that the schedules and equipment can still change, but as of now there is no flight that brings that plane to CAK for the 0700 departure, and no flights to take the aircraft anywhere after it lands at 1100.

Who knows?
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kcrwflyer
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

Re: Spirit Adds CAK to FIVE Cities

Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:34 am

MesaFlyGuy wrote:
I'm wondering if we haven't seen the last of the adds for CAK. Looking at the schedules, CAK-MYR leaves at 0700 and returns landing in Akron at 1100. No other flights from Akron line up with those times. In addition, MYR is the only route the uses the a320; everything else is on the 319. Now I know that the schedules and equipment can still change, but as of now there is no flight that brings that plane to CAK for the 0700 departure, and no flights to take the aircraft anywhere after it lands at 1100.

Who knows?



That's possible. I'd also wager to say that springs schedule is still a work in progress. I wouldn't be surprised to see them add ATL to the mix if WN bails out before then.

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