Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
VCy
Topic Author
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:01 am

Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:31 pm

Doing some research today I found that VS used to fly to Toronto for a while and their Vancouver seasonal service has been terminated. Why is this the case? Correct me if I'm wrong but a market like Toronto-London wouldn't rely as much on feeder traffic. Wouldn't their 330s or 787s be perfect for routes such as YYZ?
 
TC957
Posts: 3931
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 pm

YYZ was canned during the last recession and YVR went when the last A343's did.
Plus of course operating to Canada means there's nothing in it for DL in terms of feed.
 
jimbo737
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:18 am

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:48 pm

Not having a Cdn domestic feed network into their gateway cities was problematic. They had to rely on O&D traffic. Outside peak travel times, that is a tough proposition.
 
Western727
Posts: 1810
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:19 pm

Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?
Jack @ AUS
 
sirloin
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:13 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:28 pm

BA has a monster hub in LHR with both short-haul and long-haul feed on both ends. All VS has at LHR outside of its North American routes are a few long-haul routes elsewhere in the world, some of which have non-stop service to Canada anyway.
 
Western727
Posts: 1810
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:32 pm

sirloin wrote:
BA has a monster hub in LHR with both short-haul and long-haul feed on both ends. All VS has at LHR outside of its North American routes are a few long-haul routes elsewhere in the world, some of which have non-stop service to Canada anyway.


Bingo. Thank you.
Jack @ AUS
 
VCy
Topic Author
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:01 am

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:58 pm

sirloin wrote:
BA has a monster hub in LHR with both short-haul and long-haul feed on both ends. All VS has at LHR outside of its North American routes are a few long-haul routes elsewhere in the world, some of which have non-stop service to Canada anyway.


So there is no hope for a service between YYZ-LHR/LGW other than the ones now without any feed on either way?
 
Jayce
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:04 pm

Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.
 
Western727
Posts: 1810
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:16 pm

Jayce wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.


Ohhhhh, I see. That makes BA's presence in Canada even more sensible. Thanks!
Jack @ AUS
 
Ulsterman81
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:38 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:16 pm

Jayce wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.


And don't forget YOW, my home airport from which I've connected to YYZ for BA or on other occasions I take the bus from Ottawa to Montreal and fly BA from there. Wish BA would operate from YOW!
 
Western727
Posts: 1810
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:22 pm

Ulsterman81 wrote:
Jayce wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.


And don't forget YOW, my home airport from which I've connected to YYZ for BA or on other occasions I take the bus from Ottawa to Montreal and fly BA from there. Wish BA would operate from YOW!


I don't believe Jayce forgot YOW. There is no BA service to YOW as you mentioned; only YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL are served by BA (and fed by WS to cities beyond, like YOW).
Jack @ AUS
 
TC957
Posts: 3931
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:25 pm

This summer, there's the Canada big 3 all doing YYZ - LGW so whilst extra capacity in peak season is always welcome, VS would struggle for decent loads at other times. Plus I don't think Virgin Holidays has much, if any, of a programme to Canada, so there's minimal feed from that source.
However, I do feel YVR could be looked at again, if only for a May - October summer period. Fares have really hiked in peak summer on that route so yield can't be bad, and extra capacity would be useful to the Alaska cruise industry.
 
anstar
Posts: 3312
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 pm

I believe YVR was doing ok.. but the slots and aircraft could make more money by increasing frequencies to SFO (ie making the 2nd daily 3/4 weekly service daily).
The problem VS has at LHR is that if they want to start a route - they need to drop a route.
 
anstar
Posts: 3312
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:16 pm

I believe YVR was doing ok.. but the slots and aircraft could make more money by increasing frequencies to SFO (ie making the 2nd daily 3/4 weekly service daily).
The problem VS has at LHR is that if they want to start a route - they need to drop a route.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:27 am

VCy wrote:
Doing some research today I found that VS used to fly to Toronto for a while and their Vancouver seasonal service has been terminated. Why is this the case? Correct me if I'm wrong but a market like Toronto-London wouldn't rely as much on feeder traffic. Wouldn't their 330s or 787s be perfect for routes such as YYZ?


VS wasn't able to attract premium traffic in YYZ since that service went to Gatwick, not Heathrow. If memory correct, the SARS crisis that affected Toronto very severely was also a factor in VS dropping YYZ.

YVR had enough capacity without VS. They could use the aircraft more profitably elsewhere. YVR also isn't the strongest business travel market, especially during the summer when VS operated their seasonal service. And VS wasn't daily.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos