Page 1 of 1

Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:31 pm
by VCy
Doing some research today I found that VS used to fly to Toronto for a while and their Vancouver seasonal service has been terminated. Why is this the case? Correct me if I'm wrong but a market like Toronto-London wouldn't rely as much on feeder traffic. Wouldn't their 330s or 787s be perfect for routes such as YYZ?

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 pm
by TC957
YYZ was canned during the last recession and YVR went when the last A343's did.
Plus of course operating to Canada means there's nothing in it for DL in terms of feed.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:48 pm
by jimbo737
Not having a Cdn domestic feed network into their gateway cities was problematic. They had to rely on O&D traffic. Outside peak travel times, that is a tough proposition.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:19 pm
by Western727
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:28 pm
by sirloin
BA has a monster hub in LHR with both short-haul and long-haul feed on both ends. All VS has at LHR outside of its North American routes are a few long-haul routes elsewhere in the world, some of which have non-stop service to Canada anyway.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:32 pm
by Western727
sirloin wrote:
BA has a monster hub in LHR with both short-haul and long-haul feed on both ends. All VS has at LHR outside of its North American routes are a few long-haul routes elsewhere in the world, some of which have non-stop service to Canada anyway.


Bingo. Thank you.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:58 pm
by VCy
sirloin wrote:
BA has a monster hub in LHR with both short-haul and long-haul feed on both ends. All VS has at LHR outside of its North American routes are a few long-haul routes elsewhere in the world, some of which have non-stop service to Canada anyway.


So there is no hope for a service between YYZ-LHR/LGW other than the ones now without any feed on either way?

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:04 pm
by Jayce
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:16 pm
by Western727
Jayce wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.


Ohhhhh, I see. That makes BA's presence in Canada even more sensible. Thanks!

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:16 pm
by Ulsterman81
Jayce wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.


And don't forget YOW, my home airport from which I've connected to YYZ for BA or on other occasions I take the bus from Ottawa to Montreal and fly BA from there. Wish BA would operate from YOW!

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:22 pm
by Western727
Ulsterman81 wrote:
Jayce wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thanks to the OP for this post, I'd been wondering the same.

In response to TC957 and jimbo737: BA has no feeder traffic in Canada either, since AC is part of *A. So why has BA been able to thrive in Canada?


BA also codeshares with WestJet in YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL so they do get some Canadian/US feed from them.


And don't forget YOW, my home airport from which I've connected to YYZ for BA or on other occasions I take the bus from Ottawa to Montreal and fly BA from there. Wish BA would operate from YOW!


I don't believe Jayce forgot YOW. There is no BA service to YOW as you mentioned; only YVR, YYC, YYZ and YUL are served by BA (and fed by WS to cities beyond, like YOW).

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:25 pm
by TC957
This summer, there's the Canada big 3 all doing YYZ - LGW so whilst extra capacity in peak season is always welcome, VS would struggle for decent loads at other times. Plus I don't think Virgin Holidays has much, if any, of a programme to Canada, so there's minimal feed from that source.
However, I do feel YVR could be looked at again, if only for a May - October summer period. Fares have really hiked in peak summer on that route so yield can't be bad, and extra capacity would be useful to the Alaska cruise industry.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 pm
by anstar
I believe YVR was doing ok.. but the slots and aircraft could make more money by increasing frequencies to SFO (ie making the 2nd daily 3/4 weekly service daily).
The problem VS has at LHR is that if they want to start a route - they need to drop a route.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:16 pm
by anstar
I believe YVR was doing ok.. but the slots and aircraft could make more money by increasing frequencies to SFO (ie making the 2nd daily 3/4 weekly service daily).
The problem VS has at LHR is that if they want to start a route - they need to drop a route.

Re: Why didn't VS succeed in Canada?

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:27 am
by Viscount724
VCy wrote:
Doing some research today I found that VS used to fly to Toronto for a while and their Vancouver seasonal service has been terminated. Why is this the case? Correct me if I'm wrong but a market like Toronto-London wouldn't rely as much on feeder traffic. Wouldn't their 330s or 787s be perfect for routes such as YYZ?


VS wasn't able to attract premium traffic in YYZ since that service went to Gatwick, not Heathrow. If memory correct, the SARS crisis that affected Toronto very severely was also a factor in VS dropping YYZ.

YVR had enough capacity without VS. They could use the aircraft more profitably elsewhere. YVR also isn't the strongest business travel market, especially during the summer when VS operated their seasonal service. And VS wasn't daily.