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rcair1
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:12 pm

Spyhunter wrote:
Simultaneous icing of three heated pitot tubes, as per the BEA report, is improbable.

No it is not. A systematic failure of identical systems cause by a common environment is predictable, not improbable. That is why, in critical control systems, there are 2 independent development streams. To prevent failures of this nature. If some, unanticipated, problem occurs that crashes systems in a systematic way, the independently developed device will likely not have that fault.

BTW - pitot tubes are not critical elements, so they do not warrant having "different designs" on the same aircraft. In fact, had the pilots of AF447 flown pitch and power for 30 seconds or so - the speeds would have recovered and all would have been fine.

I can't really believe we are having this conversation....
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teme82
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:30 am

rcair1 wrote:
I can't really believe we are having this conversation....

You are since people have been feeding the troll (spyhunter) in here. I think I did the smart move and blocked him after his initial post. From that I was able to tell that he is just a troll.
Flying high and low
 
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777Jet
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:43 am

Spyhunter wrote:

The ACARS data on 447 probably was not fabricated (remember this is digitally generated and it is not impossible to manipulate the data - it's not like a radio message which several independent sources might intercept in real time).

Ten minutes from detonation to impact with the ocean would be reasonable as the poor pilots wrestled to gain control and get a Mayday message out.

As readers may tell I have huge sympathy for Captain Dubois and his crew, who were faced with an unprovoked attack on their aircraft without warning, in international airspace.

Simultaneous icing of three heated pitot tubes, as per the BEA report, is improbable.



1) Was the Inmarsat data on MH370 fabricated? Who fabricated the data? When? Who has forced Inmarsat to say the version they have made public?

2) What about the so called signal picked up from a cell phone tower in Malaysia from the FO's cell phone? If that is true, the plane would have had to have been flying back over Malaysia at some stage.

3) You make the AF447 crew sound like heroes; quite the opposite to the view that could be taken of them after reading the official report.

4) Improbable is not impossible.

5) What do you think is the real cause of the explosion today of the rocket carrying the satellite that was going to help facebook provide better coverage to certain regions (Africa, ME)?
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777Jet
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:51 am

rcair1 wrote:
In fact, had the pilots of AF447 flown pitch and power for 30 seconds or so - the speeds would have recovered and all would have been fine.


That is what makes the AF447 accident so worrying.

@ teme82, I don't believe SpyHunter is a troll. I think we are dealing with the real deal. If SpyHunter is not Michael Shrimpton, then it is somebody who knows a h311 of a lot about MS and has some kind of agenda against MS...
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Auchmithie
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:35 am

777Jet wrote:
I don't believe SpyHunter is a troll. I think we are dealing with the real deal. If SpyHunter is not Michael Shrimpton, then it is somebody who knows a h311 of a lot about MS and has some kind of agenda against MS...


Spyhunter is undoubtedly who he says he is. I have enjoyed his youtube appearances for a few years and his verbose writing style exactly matches his speaking style. I find him charming, immensely likeable, sharply intelligent, well read, a megalomaniac and, no offense intended, utterly bonkers.

Whether he is "the real deal" is another matter.

He is very adept at slipping the little nonsenses under the radar because we all concentrate on the big nonsenses. In his very first post he declared he was writing in his "professional opinion as a published intelligence author and aviation intelligence specialist". He is a published author, although by his own admission his book was not intended to sell in large quantities. However one would expect a "professional aviation intelligence specialist" to earn some sort of living being actively consulted by the aviation industry on intelligence matters. Sending unsolicited "back channel" messages to Gordon Bethune via a "CIA contact" does not count.

Prior to sentencing at his trial for claiming the German DVD had a nuclear device hidden in an ambulance near the London Olympic Stadium, his defence stated,
"I have to say this is a tragic case as he will no longer be able to continue on with the profession he loved (a barrister) and was his whole life. He will not be able to retrain and find employment and he faces years on benefits, until his pensionable age. He has no assets and was made bankrupt several years ago."

Notably at his trial his supporting evidence for being part of the "intelligence community" was a picture of him on board the USS Enterprise. As the prosecution
stated, they accepted that he had been on board the USS Enterprise but did not accept that this was in any intelligence capacity. No other supporting evidence was supplied. How utterly remarkable that not one person from the "intelligence community" was prepared to appear or even make a written statement in support of a man who, apparently, on a regular basis single handedly outperforms the world's intelligence agencies, personally discovered the existence of the German DVD that the world's intelligence agencies had somehow missed, and is so respected that the Americans have twice moved satellites on his say so.

His defence barrister stated "There's is no real motive for this crime except to make himself feel important"

This is why I am so pleased that Spyhunter is here. I hope we are making him feel important. In return I am finding him hugely entertaining. He is clearly
spending a lot of time researching random facts to support his increasingly extraordinary hypotheses, and while he is doing that he is less likely to be annoying goverment by being "an intelligence pest" and is therefore less likely to wind up back in jail.

We just have to be aware of the rules of the game. Anybody not on his side has to provide a full audit trail whereas all he has to do to prove that a fact is a fact is to invoke the magic powers of (INTELCOM).

I wish him well, and should I ever bump into him in The Pack Horse pub would be delighted to buy him a pint.
 
T1b2d3
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:20 am

zeke wrote:

Spyhunter wrote:
Car Nicobar is an important air defence base, with an 8,900 ft runway. It also operates civilian flights from Port Blair. It is a strategically placed installation and has radar!


Prove it, all talk, no evidence.

Port Blair which is far more important in that area has its radar turned off at night, been part of the blame for the recent IAF crash enroute to IXZ.


The IAF An 32 went missing within the first 30 minutes of its planned 3 hour flight from The IAF's Tambaram Air Force base-this base in Chennai. So well outside of IAF's Andaman radars. (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/m ... elatedNews)

Moreover, it left Tambaram at 8:30am...

I suppose the fact that the IAF knew exactly, well more or less, when the aircraft went missing and that it still has not been found only helps explain why the search for MH 370 is still on going.

The An 32's Current search status: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/m ... 060788.ece
Last edited by T1b2d3 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Spyhunter
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:21 am

A bit strong, isn't it Zeke? And who is this person who has "known me for years"? I've heard claims like that before, from people I've barely met.

I could say that those who believe that MH370 ditched in the SIO are delusional, given that it didn't show up on Indian or Australian radar, but I don't, as descending to personal abuse doesn't help debate. It would also be unfair - people are entitled to their view.

Ad hominem attacks like yours, with respect, are usually resorted to by those losing the argument. I cannot help that you are losing the argument, as I seek to introduce greater intellectual rigour to the debate about MH370 and question the assumptions underlying the SIO theory. I note that you have not responded to my point about endurance - even if we accept the published trip fuel figure as genuine (I repeat that I think it's about 4,000 lb too high), the aircraft would have been tanks dry more than 75 miles from the northern boundary of the primary search box, based on the INMARSAT data.

I am dealing in facts, not resorting to abuse. You asked for my mileage estimate from the Deviation Point (DP) and I gave it : 3,700 statute miles. You have not responded to my request for your estimate of fuel used up in the radical manoeuvres observed by Vietnamese primary ATC and military radar. Fuel consumption for the theorised deviation to the SIO cannot be calculated just using cruise consumption from the DP.

I suspect what is happening is that pilots on this forum are making their own calculations, and looking at their maps, and coming up with much the same figures as me: about 500 statute miles short, even allowing for a glide from say FL350. I cannot help that you are losing the argument!

One sign of people losing arguments is that they twist their opponent's arguments, by putting up something they have not actually said and attacking it. Each hull loss turns on its own facts. It would indeed be preposterous to say that every hull loss is due to unlawful interference, but no one reading my posts could possibly suppose in good faith that I have said that. I have accepted, on balance, that there was no external interference in the case of EgyptAir. Both here and in my book I reject widely circulated sabotage and shoot-down theories in the cases of the Sikorski Liberator and Hammarskjold DC-6B.

The Lib went in at Gib because of a necessarily high alpha angle on take-off due to runway extension works. As it was, the runway was marginal for a fully-loaded B-24. The aircraft was designed rapidly, in response to urgent USAAC requirement, and had a design flaw, in that you got a slipstream effect in the fuselage when the gear was down. It also had an open hatch. All it took was a partially full mail bag improperly secured and that was the end of elevator control.

UN Air Command were incompetent and the altimeter in the 6 had been negligently replaced at Leopoldville. It came loose when the aircraft depressurised during the descent, standard operating procedure on the 6 as the oleo-operated automatic depressurisation was unreliable. DC-6 pilots frequently depressurised below FL100. Tar build-ups could cause a 'popping effect', which was enough to dislodge the pilot in command's improperly secured altimeter pressure line. The radar altimeter switch was found in the 'off' position, the crew descended over high ground at night without being sure of their position, they lacked a specialist navigator, which was absurd, given the lack of radio aids, and each pilot was well over their monthly hours limit. No shoot-down.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:32 am

Spyhunter wrote:
I am dealing in facts.


Perhaps you could define "facts" from your perspective? I ask because you present information as "fact" that often only you seem to know. However, floating debris identified as being from MH370 (for one example) is brushed aside by you as planted evidence or some such.

I am at a loss how you define "facts".
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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zeke
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:51 am

Spyhunter wrote:
A bit strong, isn't it Zeke? And who is this person who has "known me for years"? I've heard claims like that before


That is what I would expect a delisional person to say

From Greg Lance-Watkins on 16/03/2015 at 11:53
Hi,

as I have made clear, I believe that the trial and sentencing of Michael Shrimpton was NOT justice done and seen to be done but rather a total miscarriage of justice.

Having known Michael for many years and being all too well aware of his personna, character and obsessions and having had him as an uneasy house guest for aroumnd a month I do NOT believe Justice was the outcome of this trial.

It is my belief that Under Law Michael Shrimpton acted correctly based on his belief and that his belief was neither criminal nor mischievous but delusional.

I believe Michael Shrimpton should have received a legal caution and enforced treatment under the mental health act. As a result of what would seem to be a total miscarriage of justice which has so badly let Michael down I fear for his future both in the short and long term.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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777Jet
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:56 am

Spyhunter wrote:
One sign of people losing arguments is that they twist their opponent's arguments, by putting up something they have not actually said and attacking it.


That continues to happen in these MH370 threads and on this site in general. It has happened to me. It has happened to most of us. The worst is when total losers re-word your quotes. Don't let others get away with it. Put them in their place. You know you have won when you respond to one of these twisted arguments and debunk it, only to find your response has been deleted whilst the twisted reply remains. Whilst I obviously don't agree with your scenario and still strongly believe that the Captain was responsible, I appreciate your polite and well written contributions to the greatest aviation mystery of all time. FWIW your scenario is far more researched and probable than some of the other scenarios that have been floated. Have a good weekend, all.
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CabSauv
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:46 pm

Zeke .... I would not rely on any information originating from Greg Lance-Watkins :)

a few bored minutes on google, and it strikes me that he is (also) one of those too busy looking in the mirror and seeing an expert looking back.
 
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Spyhunter
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:50 pm

Agreed, CabSauv! There are a couple of issues with GLW - I'm out as gay for one thing, and he is with respect homophobic, as may be seen from some of his posts. He also did good work for MI6 in Africa in the old days, and still has his contacts there. Six were aware of the two warheads brought into London, and their removal, and subsequent dismantling, but the Foreign Office wanted them to stay quiet. Six sent along an observer to my trial, another intelligence writer, using the pseudonym Nigel West, a nice chap. Greg and I were friends up until that 'mentally ill' post - we've not met since, indeed we've not met since my arrest.

In my judgment Inmarsat acted in good faith, on the basis of corrupted data, probably inserted by the Third Department of the General Staff Directorate (GSD) of the PLA.

The audit trail for the alleged cellphone call is weak and in any event such calls could easily be generated by tampering with software - an unanswered call is not the same thing as an authenticated voice conversation.

Yes, I believe that Captain Dubois and his crew were heroes. I believe they fought a desperate battle to save their crippled airliner and the lives of their passengers. I am aware that their reputations have been sullied by the BEA and others. I absolutely refuse to sully the reputations of these fine French pilots.

Sadly, Auchmithie, the Pack Horse is no longer my local! The 'bonkers' attacks are wearing a bit thin, frankly. The CPS tried that and it blew up in their faces. I took an IQ test and joined Mensa, and the court-appointed psychiatrist's starting figure for my IQ in interview was 185. I am told that's about right - when you deal with intel agencies at my level they carry out psychological profiles of you. Mid-180s gives you a fair amount of intellectual firepower. There aren't that many doing salaried government work above 160. I'm not a megalomaniac, either - you may be confusing me with Tony Blair, no offence intended.

The bankruptcy followed a bogus Iranian Bar Council complaint, supported by a forgery. I won, but it took over 3 years to clear my name, cost me around $500,000 and took me down financially. I'm bouncing back however. I had to sell my Bentley Turbo R, which was a real wrench as I loved that car, but I now tool around in a lovely Daimler 4.0 Litre V8. :D The engine's a bit small and there's no turbocharger :( but she motors along well enough.

I have published on MH370 in Flypaper, British Mensa's aviation newsletter, and my book Spyhunter covers a number of aviation topics.

I have been consulted on aviation issues by intel agencies, represented a company, as a non-exec director, in commercial negotiations with the Skunk Works and have several hundred aviation contacts.

If anyone is pushing the narrative that my visit to Enterprise was the only evidence of intelligence work before the jury they need to check their facts. The jury had over 1,000 aviation, military and intelligence contact details, as seized from my flat. There were so many the judge prevented me, with respect, from completing my evidence. They had a peer-reviewed published article of mine in an intelligence journal and details of three intelligence conferences where I had been invited to speak. The judge banned them from seeing Spyhunter.

My flying experience is very limited, but I did my first solo in 1979 and I've been at the controls, under supervision, of a Lear 35A, a Stearman, a Piper Aztec and an Auster AO Mk 6 since. I have sat in the jump-seat in flight of a Vickers-Supermarine VC-10 C Mk 1 and an Avro Andover, where I was able to monitor both take-offs and landings. My airmanship in the VC-10 cockpit was good enough to spot a 747 on a converging course, over France, and alert the pilot in command. The 74 was climbing to our altitude and presented a small visual target, out of the line of sight of the pilot in command and difficult to spot for the co-pilot. I have also been invited into the cockpits of airliners in flight (not recently, of course, since cockpit visits are a no-no these days) and have a small amount of heavy jet simulator time. I've flown in a wide variety of aircraft, including military aircraft, such as the C-2A which took me out to Enterprise. The US Navy were of course kind enough to give me a Tailhook Certificate. I've been in a DC-3 north of the Arctic Circle, a DHC Beaver seaplane, a glider, a DC-6, every Boeing jetliner from the 70 to the 77 (waiting my first ride in the nice new Dreamliner, where I spotted a DVD sabotage campaign targeted on the battery compartment climate control software), DC-9s, DC-10s, a whole bunch of Airbuses and regional kites. I've been shown over a large range of aircraft, including an F-111, a C-117, a B-17 and a Tornado.

The prosecution and police were baffled by the Enterprise visit, They couldn't believe it and initially tried to suggest that she was tied up alongside at Norfolk,even though they had the video of my C-2A being trapped, pictures of me with aboard her with the rolling North Atlantic in view and a photo taken by me whilst I was walking down the ramp of the COD!
 
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enzo011
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:22 pm

Okay, so it is all a conspiracy and MH370 was shot down in the South China Sea. Is there a concerted effort by all to stop any ship from picking up any sort of evidence? Surely if it was shot down there will be lots of small pieces floating about? Other than a supposed emergency exit that was found, nothing.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:46 pm

enzo011 wrote:
Okay, so it is all a conspiracy and MH370 was shot down in the South China Sea. Is there a concerted effort by all to stop any ship from picking up any sort of evidence? Surely if it was shot down there will be lots of small pieces floating about? Other than a supposed emergency exit that was found, nothing.


Forget it. We are talking about a guy here who has claimed publicly on radio that literally every heart attack that happened since the late 19th century was a targeted assassination by German underground intelligence networks that only he has been able to identify. Watch some of the videos on his homepage - I actually feel sorry for the guy. I imagine he was a bright kid, but somewhere along the way, his brain got teleported to outer space.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
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zeke
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:22 am

enzo011 wrote:
Okay, so it is all a conspiracy and MH370 was shot down in the South China Sea. Is there a concerted effort by all to stop any ship from picking up any sort of evidence? Surely if it was shot down there will be lots of small pieces floating about? Other than a supposed emergency exit that was found, nothing.


There are literally thousands of fishing boats in the south china sea at night, it literally looks like the milky way. This is a photo taken from the international space station, there are many more lights visible when flying over the area at a normal cruise altitiude. Not only would shooting down an airliner in the area cause parts of passengers, luggage, and aircraft to be found, it would have also have likely resulted in boats on the surface being damaged in the 50 sq km debris would have fallen over.

Image

But we know from radar data collected by numerous countries the aircraft was not shot down over the south china sea as it turned directly towards the closest airport.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Auchmithie
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:35 am

Spyhunter wrote:
The 'bonkers' attacks are wearing a bit thin, frankly. The CPS tried that and it blew up in their faces.


Not sure how anything has blown up in the CPS's (Crown Prosecution Service) face. You have been tried twice and convicted twice so they are 2-0 up, 3-0 if we count the fact that you have already unsuccessfully appealed your porn conviction once. Indeed it was your own defence team who asked (unsuccessfully) for an adjournment for further psychological tests to establish if you had Asperger's syndrome or a narcissistic personality disorder.

Spyhunter wrote:
I took an IQ test and joined Mensa, and the court-appointed psychiatrist's starting figure for my IQ in interview was 185.


It is only you who is suggesting that a high IQ and a tendency towards the bonkers are mutually exclusive. No reputable psychiatrist would.

Spyhunter wrote:
Six sent along an observer to my trial, another intelligence writer, using the pseudonym Nigel West, a nice chap.
.

He was once described by a judge as "a profoundly dishonest man" and "one of the most dishonest witnesses I have ever seen".

Spyhunter wrote:
If anyone is pushing the narrative that my visit to Enterprise was the only evidence of intelligence work before the jury they need to check their facts. The jury had over 1,000 aviation, military and intelligence contact details, as seized from my flat. There were so many the judge prevented me, with respect, from completing my evidence.


My grandfather had well over 1,000 old cigarette cards. That doesn't mean he ever smoked a cigarette. Your extraordinarily lengthy defence can be summarised that you did not make a bomb hoax but passed on reliable information from one of your many contacts in the "intelligence community". The jury did not accept your defence, ergo they did not accept that you had many contacts within the "intelligence community". They found you guilty of making a bomb hoax.

Your whole premise on MH370 is based on information from your many contacts within the "intelligence community". If a court of law did not accept these as genuine they why should the good people here?

Spyhunter wrote:
I'm bouncing back however.


Excellent news.
 
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Spyhunter
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:16 am

Responding in reverse order, it does not follow that the jury rejected my intelligence connections and in any event they were not permitted to see much of the intelligence material, including a peer reviewed article in the Journal of International Security Affairs.

Both convictions have been referred to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. The images conviction in particular has blown up in the CPS's face as it has emerged that the hard drive they produced in evidence was of the wrong type for my laptop and had a warranty expiring more than 18 months after mine! I wouldn't put much store in the convictions if I were you. You can trade cigarette contacts - you can't buy details of intel contacts. I didn't get Markus Wolf's home telephone number from the East Berlin telephone directory.

Mental illness is rare in those of high intelligence. They are often perceived by those of low or medium intelligence, particularly those who are egotistical or arrogant, as mentally ill because they lack the intellect to grasp the point being made. Thames Valley Police and the CPS both suffered from this problem, with respect. Police officers tend to be of low mentality, and the brighter lawyers go into private practice, leaving the CPS with the also-rans.

You may think Nigel West (Rupert Allason) dishonest, I do not. We see each other rarely, but we have shared the platform at an intelligence conference.

Zeke, with respect I have never suggested a direct hit, which might have caused MH370 to break up at altitude,in which case we would get a large debris field. The Fakour-2 has a proximity fuze and the hull was plainly intact as the aircraft hit the water, at a steep angle, hence there being only one piece of floating wreckage, the starboard hatch/door.

PlaneInsomniac, you are plainly wrong, with respect. I have never asserted that EVERY heart attack in the 20th century was deliberately caused. The overwhelming majority, by which I mean over 99.9%, of heart attacks are due to natural causes or follow external trauma. Because it is easy to fool a pathologist or a coroner by stimulating a heart attack they are a popular means of carrying out covert assassinations, either by poison or embolism. A large bore needle with air into a vein can trigger cardiac arrest, indeed if you do it right you don't need a large-bore needle. An air embolism leaves no traces other than the damaged heart muscle and the injection point, which can be disguised, eg. via a cut.

If you have found a radio interview on the Net which purports to have me saying the words you have attributed to me it is either a phoney, or had been edited. I have been misrepresented in this way for years.

I am not the only person who has identified the DVD. The late Christopher Story FRSA was the first into print, in 2005. I was one of his sources, but by no means the only one. Dr Paul Medhurst of the American Military University has taught it on his excellent counter-intelligence courses, and confirmed the existence of the DVD, whom he encountered in the field, in Beirut, in an expert's report in my images appeal, which was not countered by a prosecution report.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:04 pm

Sadly in frustration of not knowing what or how the loss of MH370 occurred, these thread have evolved into bringing out crackpot theories, attacks on some posters to others and discussions way off the tangents of the subject.
We may never know what happened with MH570, we only have some radar and messages likely showing a flight path to the SIO. It appears we may never recover the recorders and even then, would they really tell us anything ? The most likely scenario was the PIC taking control of the plane and a series of actions to erase its signature, evade ATC, depressurize so everyone is dead and on automatic pilot to it ran out of fuel.
What we can do from this loss is to find ways to reduce the risks of another such improbable event or make it easier for recovery. Are there ways to assure 100% full time ability to transmit information if a flight 'goes rouge' from its intended route or has a unusual event like depressurization, electrical or mechanical malfunction. Can we find ways to prevent a full lockout of cockpit doors but keep potential terrorists out ? Some of that has been long discussed but with little realistic hope of ever recovering the recorders, we can't confirm what happened. Better would be constructive discussions as to how to reduce this or any loss of an aircraft.
 
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zeke
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:43 pm

Spyhunter wrote:

Zeke, with respect I have never suggested a direct hit, which might have caused MH370 to break up at altitude,in which case we would get a large debris field. The Fakour-2 has a proximity fuze and the hull was plainly intact as the aircraft hit the water, at a steep angle, hence there being only one piece of floating wreckage, the starboard hatch/door.



That is just more bullocks. There is no such thing as a "Fakour-2". The Fakour 90 is an air to air missile that requires the AWG-9 radar to operate. "Plainly intact", more bullocks, an airliner is pressurised.

Image

There is zero evidence that any 777 part has been recover from the south china sea, evidence a barrister would know is not the words of some crackpot, it would be photos, and the inclusion into an investigation report. We have lots of photos including the part numbers on parts located in Africa.

The 777 does not have hatches, the doors are heavy, and all of them have distinct slide rafts with part numbers on them like the doors that can be traced back to any aircraft.

Where are the photos, where is the report that says it is form a 777 ?

Boeing is part of the MH370 investigation, why is the part not included in the report that you claim that they have identified as a 777 part ? because it does not exist.

Standby by for another long post full of crap with zero facts or evidence in reply.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Bluesky58
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:26 am

Would it not be interesting to know how the FBI recovered files end? High altitude spiral or controlled landing on water with flaps extended. Would kind of end speculation if the pilot tried to water land it. My guess is that they know more but politically can't say as its "ongoing". BTW I signed up just to pose this.
 
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pvjin
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:18 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mozambique-s ... soc_trk=tw

Some new parts found, I wonder which exact part of the aircraft the one showing on the pic is from?
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7BOEING7
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:01 pm

pvjin wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mozambique-shows-3-pieces-suspected-mh370-debris-133840260.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

Some new parts found, I wonder which exact part of the aircraft the one showing on the pic is from?


See replies 277, 278, 279
 
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BaconButty
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:05 pm

Bluesky58 wrote:
Would it not be interesting to know how the FBI recovered files end? High altitude spiral or controlled landing on water with flaps extended. Would kind of end speculation if the pilot tried to water land it. My guess is that they know more but politically can't say as its "ongoing". BTW I signed up just to pose this.

We haven't got files as such - just thousands of fragments of files that each contain one or more points. They've evidently looked for a coherent (in terms of fuel burn and intermediate distance) set of points that could reflect the route indicated by the inmarsat data. The closest they came up with was a set of four points heading NW up the malacca strait and two points in the SIO (some distance from the final ping ring iirc). From what I can see the first 4 and the last 2 are each likely to be from a single flight, whether all 6 are seems to be speculative.You can see the alleged raw data and the turn rates in the last two points here: http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/2798

I don't know what to make of it all to be honest. Simulated fuel exhaustion in broadly the same part of the world raises an eyebrow, but without knowing quite how much stuff and what kind of other tracks were on there it's hard to form an opinion. He could have nipped for a brew and not come back, for all I know. Can't help but think that these were known a long time back and it didn't stop the Aussies spending a small fortune on the search.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:34 pm

The Iranians put the Fakour-2 on display in Teheran in November 2013. It's a developed version of the Hughes AIM-54 Phoenix AAM, modified for surface launch. Hughes themselves understood that the Phoenix would make an effective SAM, indeed they suggested it to the US Navy in the early 70s as a Sea Sparrow replacement.

As with AF447 hull penetration with shrapnel from a proximity-fuzed detonation would not lead to hull disintegration, but slow depressurisation through multiple small openings. The warhead detonation near the US F-4 you show may be from an AIM-54, in which case the target was probably acquired by an AWG-9. The Fakour 1 and 2 are surface launched and target acquisition is by the launch vehicle, typically a Kilo class SSK.

The hatch/door argument is basically a question of semantics. I am referring to the starboard doors/hatches, not normally used by passengers, on the 777-200. Aircraft ingress and egress on the 777 is normally to port. I repeat that my information is that the hatch/door observed on the surface of the SIO was identified by Boeing as having come off a 777, but they could not categorically say it was off a -200.

There are four basic problems with the flight-path based on the INMARSAT data:
(1) There is no confirming SATINT.
(2) The INMARSAT flight plan takes MH370 into Indian airspace but the aircraft was not observed by Indian radar, either at Car Nicobar Air Force Base or by Eastern Naval Command.
(3) The INMARSAT flight plan takes MH370 well within range of the RAAF's Jindalee Over The Horizon radar station at Laverton (bearing in mind OTH does not work like a traditional, single dish radar with a rotating antenna) but no radar return matching a 777 on that track was obtained and
(4) Fuel exhaustion. Having regard to the distance (nobody has challenged my estimate of 3,700 statute miles from the DP to the primary SIO search box) and the fuel-consuming manoeuvres observed by Vietnamese ATC primary surveillance and military radar, including a climb at what at that weight and rate of climb must have been at or close to TOGA power, to over FL400, MH370 lacked sufficient fuel to reach the final 'ping' point, even allowing for a 75 nautical mile glide from say FL350, and 75 nm would be pushing the envelope, and assumes the pilot in command had power to select flap.

Itbewr's point about constructive discussion is a good one, with respect. I want to move the debate on to preventative measures which pilots can take when faced with a high-altitude SAM threat, and appropriate, El Al-type countermeasures for fitment to civil airliners. The safety breakthrough can only be made when pilots understand that their aircraft may be targeted at cruising altitude by SAMs. After MH17 there really is no excuse for ignoring this threat. Early warning can be provided by radio-jamming and ACARS disablement. Simultaneous jamming and ACARS failure should be treated as an immediate, life-threatening emergency.

My opinion is that the pilot in command should fly the plane, leaving it to the first officer to exercise EMCON and disable all radars, including radar altimeters. All non-ATC communications should be used to declare an emergency, although SELCAL would be likely to be jammed as well. If over the ocean an immediate turn should be made to the nearest landfall and 7700 squawked. Descent to FL100 is preferable,given the likelihood of non-explosive cabin depressurisation. On no account should an attempt be made to out-climb (as Captain Shah appears to have tried) or out-run an incoming SAM. Evasive manoeuvres should be radical and left to the last minute.
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:06 am

Spyhunter,

You said:
There are four basic problems with the flight-path based on the INMARSAT data:
(1) There is no confirming SATINT.

You haven't remotely justified this assumption. I.e. the possibility of an aircraft following it's apparent path without being observed, and even if it was, that fact remaining out of the public domain.
(2) The INMARSAT flight plan takes MH370 into Indian airspace but the aircraft was not observed by Indian radar, either at Car Nicobar Air Force Base or by Eastern Naval Command.
The state and capabilities of the Indian Facility and the likelihood of it being inactive has been discussed. You've chosen to ignore this.
(3) The INMARSAT flight plan takes MH370 well within range of the RAAF's Jindalee Over The Horizon radar station at Laverton (bearing in mind OTH does not work like a traditional, single dish radar with a rotating antenna) but no radar return matching a 777 on that track was obtained and
"JORN was not operational at the time of the aircraft’s disappearance. Given range from individual OTHRs, the ionospheric conditions and a lack of information on MH370’s possible flight path towards Australia, it is unlikely that MH370 would have been detected if the system had been operational." https://www.airforce.gov.au/docs/JORN_FAQS.pdf
(4) Fuel exhaustion. Having regard to the distance (nobody has challenged my estimate of 3,700 statute miles from the DP to the primary SIO search box) and the fuel-consuming manoeuvres observed by Vietnamese ATC primary surveillance and military radar, including a climb at what at that weight and rate of climb must have been at or close to TOGA power, to over FL400, MH370 lacked sufficient fuel to reach the final 'ping' point, even allowing for a 75 nautical mile glide from say FL350, and 75 nm would be pushing the envelope, and assumes the pilot in command had power to select flap.
Zeke's been through this ad nauseaum. You chose to ignore him.

Michael, you're probably a sharper cookie than me. Never mind Mensa, I was quite happy to be accepted into the Wine Society. But I have heard of Russell's Teapot. Basically, if you allege that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, you shouldn't expect anyone to believe you merely because you cannot be proven wrong. In this thread you've been asserting teapots, strainers, cups, a milk jug and a coffee grinder strewn all over the galaxy without even a modicum of evidence. Seriously, I guess it's possible the RAAF could be lying about JRN2. But it's their system, they're the people who should know, it's up to you to provide evidence to the contrary. And if you can't provide evidence that we can verify, then frankly give it a rest.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:59 am

If you are into the intelligence business you have access to other sources, that are hidden from the public. In fact it seems like his posts are a making some people unhappy... German intelligence is reading those forums.
 
rickabone
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:28 am

Spyhunter wrote:
Mental illness is rare in those of high intelligence.

Actually, as with many of your other assertions, this is the opposite of the truth.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/why-smarter ... ill-270039
https://www.quora.com/Are-intelligent-p ... ?srid=oTBl
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/en ... al-illness
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:49 am

rickabone wrote:
Spyhunter wrote:
Mental illness is rare in those of high intelligence.

Actually, as with many of your other assertions, this is the opposite of the truth.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/why-smarter ... ill-270039
https://www.quora.com/Are-intelligent-p ... ?srid=oTBl
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/en ... al-illness


Also, in my personal experience, people in Mensa - and people who boast about IQ scores in general - tend to be insecure and use their ability to solve puzzles as a crutch for their ego.

Brandishing IQ "intelligence" (ie. pattern recognition and logic solving) does not necessarily make you a "smart person" within our society or good at solving work problems or whatever.

(And my scores also used to be pretty good, in case you think this is out of spite... ;) )
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:23 am

barney captain wrote:
Passedv1 wrote:
I haven't been following the developments about MH370 so forgive me if this doesn't quite fit the known information. Several posters have stated that because the flaps were down the pilot clearly intended a controlled ditching...I will offer three other reasons why a pilot might put the flaps down...


2. If you were in an intentional ditching scenario the GPWS "too low gear" or "too low flaps" might cause a pilot to put the gear and flaps out either out of habit or just to shut the system up. It's a pretty jarring warning/annoying even for a rogue pilot in his final moments.


Except all one would need to do is push the EGPWS Inhibit -


Image


It was allegedly the Captain so I think those switches are on the FO's side and not switches you normally use nor think about...but that's beside the point. I'm not talking about THE most effective way to accomplish these things, just trying to point out that there MAY be other reasons a suicidal pilot might put the flaps down besides an intentional ditching. I'm skeptical that the flaps being down offers PROOF that it was an intentional & controlled ditching.
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:54 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
And my scores also used to be pretty good,

Huh? Used to be? What happened? Atrophy of the grey matter?
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
Auchmithie
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:11 am

Spyhunter wrote:
it does not follow that the jury rejected my intelligence connections


Patently it does. They would not have convicted you of making a bomb hoax if they believed your defence of having received reliable information from your "intelligence contacts".

Spyhunter wrote:
Both convictions have been referred to the Criminal Cases Review Commission.


For the avoidance of doubt ANYBODY can appeal (or refer) their conviction(s) to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. If the committee of Commissioners decides that there are grounds on which the case(s) can be referred (to the Appeal Court) a final Statement of Reasons will be issued, explaining the CCRC's reasons for this, and the case will be sent to the Court of Appeal for a new appeal to be heard. Should the CCRC refer your case(s) to the Court of Appeal please come back to us. In the meantime the fact that you have applied to the CCRC has no significance.

Spyhunter wrote:
I wouldn't put much store in the convictions if I were you.


Thanks for the advice but I'll stick with the Court on this one.

Spyhunter wrote:
You can trade cigarette contacts - you can't buy details of intel contacts.


Absolutely anything can be traded.

Spyhunter wrote:
You may think Nigel West (Rupert Allason) dishonest, I do not.


It was a Judge who said it. Not me.
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:39 am

seahawk wrote:
If you are into the intelligence business you have access to other sources, that are hidden from the public. In fact it seems like his posts are a making some people unhappy... German intelligence is reading those forums.

He isn't. He's "sources" are the voices in his head if you ask me.
Flying high and low
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:59 am

I reject Canberra's assertion that the JORN system was non-operational in March 2014, indeed my understanding is that 1RSU at Edinburgh were consulted, and confirmed no 777 target over the Indian Ocean at the material time. MH370 might have been out of range of Longreach, although in my estimation you can add over 50% to the published range figures. I don't think you would go far wrong with a maximum daylight range of 3,000 nm.

However the INMARSAT track (INtrack for short) would have brought MH370 within range of both the Alice Springs and Laverton arrays, not least as Laverton has a 180 deg arc (Alice is only 90).

I note that the Aussies have been heavily investing in JORN upgrades, and that Phase 5 reached full operational capability a few months prior to the loss of MH370. The Australian Government rightly scaled down their search effort after 1RSU's negative report. I back-channelled a warning to then PM Tony Abbott to check the Laverton radar data, advising him of the Pinckney's splendid actions and the probable possession by China of a sub-mounted high-altitude SAM capability.

I am not ignoring Zeke's posts, indeed so far to the contrary I am responding to them. I disagree with most of what he says, but not all - he made a valid point with respect about the published fuel figure probably being a trip figure, not a fuel total at engine start. He hasn't dealt with my distance from DP point, nor responded to my point about fuel consumption during the high-power climb and radical manoeuvres, consistent with untrained SAM or fighter evasion, observed on Vietnamese radar.

A high rate of descent can be explained as an evasive manoeuvre by pilots lacking anti-SAM training, such as the heroic crew of MH370, responding to a threat about which they had not been warned. The Phoenix and its Fakour 1 & 2 derivatives use semi-active homing. They are not beam-riding missiles like the old Sea Slug. The Phoenix did not have an infra-red capability, indeed infra-red is potentially dangerous for the launch vehicle as the heat-source of the target is do distant differentiation becomes a problem - no IFF with heat!

Because discussion about the missile threat to airliners has focused on MANPADS, which typically use infra-red or optical aiming systems only, or a combination of both, airline pilots tend to assume that an incoming missile can be defeated by reducing their aircraft's heat signature, e.g. by setting the engines to flight-idle. A Fakour-2 will however have locked on to your aircraft's radar emissions beyond visual range from the cockpit. By the time the First Officer saw the exhaust (the missile appears to have been fired from starboard of track) the incoming had probably switched to terminal radar guidance. That is why I emphasise treating radio jamming and ACARS interference as early warning indicators. Semi-active missile lock can only be broken by a large transport aircraft through the tight and timely exercise of EMCON.

Once the incoming is in terminal homing mode the aim of radical, last-minute manoeuvres is to try and exhaust the missile's fuel, or push it beyond the point where it self-destructs if fitted with a a range-safety device. Even the Fakour-2 is probably fitted with a range-safety mechanism as the Bad Guys will not want spent missiles crashing on land. If it has enough fuel, the SAM will get you in the end, but if you are manoeuvring you may confuse the proximity fuze into detonating further from you. AF447 and TWA 800 stood no chance, as the warheads detonated in close and ventrally. Ideally you want dorsal detonation and at least 150 ft separation. The scatter effect means that you're going to dodge a lot of the shrapnel, it will be slightly cooler and slower (not much but every little bit helps) and there may be a chance of reaching land or a controlled ditching, indeed with dorsal detonation you may retain at least one engine and at least one intact tank.

I was not boasting about my IQ, merely responding to offensive suggestions of mental illness. I query the methodology of the quoted research. Many bright students, with IQs around the 130s and 140s, ie not of high intelligence but bright enough, can be pushed too hard to achieve good results, and crack. Students with high intelligence are not under the same pressure - typically they can pass exams without too much effort, being brighter than their tutors and examiners, and can spend more time on fun activities like sex and flying, or making a contribution to the welfare of their fellow students (I set up and ran a second-hand law book shop and was president of my university law society).

Auchmithie, the jury's majority verdict was confined to the indictment, which made no reference to my intelligence connections. At times some members of the jury were laughing at the CPS's with respect pathetic attempt to maintain that I had no intel connections - every intelligence officer who gave evidence was traced through my email and phone records. The prosecution called one of MI5's top wet-work specialists without the slightest idea who he was or what he did. Thames Valley Police actually sent two unarmed rozzers to interview MI6's top wet-work man, as was, having tracked him via my phone records. He probably had a couple of Glocks and some C4 in the house, but he is a nice wet-work specialist and elected not to shoot the police officers, which would arguably have been unlawful anyway. Most wet-work men of my acquaintance also like a contract and dislike doing freebies.

If the jury hadn't been nobbled they would have acquitted, indeed the prosecution and I were having a discussion about defence costs the afternoon before they came back with their shock verdict. One CPS lawyer was overheard saying "well, we didn't have much of a case, anyway" or words to like effect. They didn't, and the boot is now being transferred to the other foot. A High Court judge has ruled that my CCRC reference was on 'legitimate' grounds, quote, unquote.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:12 am

neutrino wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
And my scores also used to be pretty good,

Huh? Used to be? What happened? Atrophy of the grey matter?


Yeah that was back when I was young... got plenty of sleep... led a clean life... didn't drink... I imagine I'm now way down on what I used to be (not that I think IQ is all that important, clearly).
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Auchmithie
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:40 am

Spyhunter wrote:
A High Court judge has ruled that my CCRC reference was on 'legitimate' grounds, quote, unquote.


If the CCRC refer your case(s) to the Court of Appeal then by all means come back to us. In the meantime it should be pointed out that until 29th July 2016 the CCRC had completed 20,126 applications of which 19,501 were rejected and 625 were referred to the Court of Appeal.

At this time banging on about the fact that you have applied to the CCRC to review your case(s) is as much hot air as your fabulous contention to the officers who initially arrested you that it was all ‘a colossal c**k-up worthy of an apology, damages and lunch on MI5.’
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:40 am

Spyhunter wrote:
The hatch/door argument is basically a question of semantics. I am referring to the starboard doors/hatches, not normally used by passengers, on the 777-200. Aircraft ingress and egress on the 777 is normally to port. I repeat that my information is that the hatch/door observed on the surface of the SIO was identified by Boeing as having come off a 777, but they could not categorically say it was off a -200.


You use the term "my information is" and expect us to believe you when it has never been publicly confirmed that the item floating in the SCS was confirmed by Boeing as coming from a 777.

In a YouTube interview titled "Michael Shrimpton on EgyptAir Flight 804's Demise", at 8:00 into the interview, referring to the same item you use the term "a window hatch" ... "which I believe was verified by Boeing". Then a few seconds later you use the terms "certainly verified" immediately corrected to "my understanding is it was verified". I believe and my understanding is neither evidence nor fact.

"I believe" that you know that this item has never been verified by Boeing as coming from a 777. You try to push your baseless point by saying "my information is that" as if you expect others to just believe you. Well, my information is that that item is not from a 777 and has never been confirmed by anybody as being from a 777. There you go.

FWIW your scenario does tie in nicely with the report from another aircraft in the area hearing an incoherent voice over the radio. But the radios were jammed anyway, right?
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:41 am

Spyhunter wrote:
The hatch/door argument is basically a question of semantics. I am referring to the starboard doors/hatches, not normally used by passengers, on the 777-200. Aircraft ingress and egress on the 777 is normally to port. I repeat that my information is that the hatch/door observed on the surface of the SIO was identified by Boeing as having come off a 777, but they could not categorically say it was off a -200.


You use the term "my information is" and expect us to believe you when it has never been publicly confirmed that the item floating in the SCS was confirmed by Boeing as coming from a 777.

In a YouTube interview titled "Michael Shrimpton on EgyptAir Flight 804's Demise", at 8:00 into the interview, referring to the same item you use the term "a window hatch" ... "which I believe was verified by Boeing". Then a few seconds later you use the terms "certainly verified" immediately corrected to "my understanding is it was verified". I believe and my understanding is neither evidence nor fact.

"I believe" that you know that this item has never been verified by Boeing as coming from a 777. You try to push your baseless point by saying "my information is that" as if you expect others to just believe you. Well, my information is that that item is not from a 777 and has never been confirmed by anybody as being from a 777. There you go.

FWIW your scenario does tie in nicely with the report from another aircraft in the area hearing an incoherent voice over the radio. But the radios were jammed anyway, right?
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awthompson
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:30 pm

The mystery deepens.

A controlled ditching with half success, putting the hulk of 9M-MRO on the ocean bed in a reasonably intact condition is now looking very unlikely.
Looking at the piece of tail fin recently found, from just behind the leading edge about half way up the fin, it is clear the the tail fin itself has largely been torn apart. That would have been one of the parts least likely to suffer severe damage in a controlled ditching or crash landing on the ocean surface if the plane survived and sank to the bed largely intact.
At the very least, it looks more like the Ethiopian B767 hijack with an engine digging in, tearing a wing off, then the fuselage rolling over to one side.

Even the fin of Air France 447 was found more or less intact in an impact with the ocean, albeit with low forward speed and high rate of descent in a nose high attitude.
ie. AF 447.
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:56 pm

BaconButty wrote:
I was quite happy to be accepted into the Wine Society. .


There you go BaconButty, I always knew you were a clever fellow like me
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:46 pm

Auchmithie wrote:
Spyhunter wrote:
A High Court judge has ruled that my CCRC reference was on 'legitimate' grounds, quote, unquote.


If the CCRC refer your case(s) to the Court of Appeal then by all means come back to us. In the meantime it should be pointed out that until 29th July 2016 the CCRC had completed 20,126 applications of which 19,501 were rejected and 625 were referred to the Court of Appeal.

At this time banging on about the fact that you have applied to the CCRC to review your case(s) is as much hot air as your fabulous contention to the officers who initially arrested you that it was all ‘a colossal c**k-up worthy of an apology, damages and lunch on MI5.’


Spyhunter is a troll pure and simple, he's spreading disinformation LRandC to get a reaction to boost his ego. His assertions are no doubt distressing for anyone personally affected by this mystery and for that reason alone I think he should have been barred from ANet a long time ago. I, probably like others, have reported him to have his account removed without any reply from whatever remains of the ANet moderators, I urge others to do the same so that we can return to a rational discussion.
 
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:26 pm

awthompson wrote:
The mystery deepens.

A controlled ditching with half success, putting the hulk of 9M-MRO on the ocean bed in a reasonably intact condition is now looking very unlikely.
Looking at the piece of tail fin recently found, from just behind the leading edge about half way up the fin, it is clear the the tail fin itself has largely been torn apart. That would have been one of the parts least likely to suffer severe damage in a controlled ditching or crash landing on the ocean surface if the plane survived and sank to the bed largely intact.
At the very least, it looks more like the Ethiopian B767 hijack with an engine digging in, tearing a wing off, then the fuselage rolling over to one side.

Even the fin of Air France 447 was found more or less intact in an impact with the ocean, albeit with low forward speed and high rate of descent in a nose high attitude.
ie. AF 447.


The 777 is only about 9% composite by weight, and of that only part of that is a honeycomb construction that would be buoyant. The parts I would expect to float are green in this picture.

Image

The part from the vertical stab I think is part of the rudder actuator inspection area, shown to be open here on the OZ214 rudder.

Image

Difficult to compare the 777 to any of the FBW Airbus in the area as Airbus has used a higher percentage of composites in the area for a long time. Even the A300 I think has more composites in the tail compared to the 777. Large parts that are floating on the surface are also subject to damage from shipping. Ships regularly hit 20 and 40' containers at sea that fall off other ships. A part that weighs a couple of hundred kilos has no chance against a ships of severs thousand tonnes.
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Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:14 am

awthompson wrote:
The mystery deepens.


It sure does:


'Report: MH370 pilot texted lady friend two days before tragedy'

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/354939

""The pilot of missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 had reportedly messaged a married woman with three children about a "personal matter" two days before the flight disappeared on March 8, 2014.

Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had grown close to Fatima Pardi in the months before his disappearance, with their friendship quickly developing to the point where the captain played a fatherly role to her three children, one of whom has severe cerebral palsy.

However, their friendship had cooled at Zaharie's instigation a few weeks before the ill-fated flight.

Fatima also would not reveal the subject of their last WhatsApp discussion before flight MH370.

"That last conversation was just between me and him. I don't want to talk about it.

"I'm afraid what I say will be misunderstood. It was a personal matter, a private issue," she said, as reported by The Australian.

Fatima, 35, is a former kindergarten teacher who now works for an opposition party.

She had been interviewed four times by investigators of flight MH370 which went missing with 239 people onboard.

The Australian reported that Fatima grew close to Zaharie after meeting as political volunteers on the previous general election day in 2013.

She said the 53-year-old pilot had regularly visited her house and often bore gifts for her children.

However, she said they were not having an affair and her decision to speak on this matter publicly was because she wanted to counter speculation that Zaharie might have hijacked the plane.

"This is not a lovey-dovey story. He was a friend of mine. We were friends.

"He told me he saw potential in me and that he would help me build a better future for myself and my children," she said.

She had refused all interviews since the fateful day in 2014, she said, because she was afraid she would be misinterpreted and it might hurt the feelings of Zaharie's family.""


The full article is longer and the same content can be found on various sites, including The Australian, which usually can only be accessed with a subscription.


I just found the following bit to deepen the mystery:

"""That last conversation was just between me and him. I don't want to talk about it.

"I'm afraid what I say will be misunderstood. It was a personal matter, a private issue,"""
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
salttee
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:23 am

We may now know who was on the other end of the line when Zaharie made the phone call to an illicit cell phone shortly before takeoff.
"The pilot of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 had grown close to a married woman and her three children....................."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 311f1e87ac

This fits in with what we already know - this woman is active in "opposition politics" and Zaharie was certainly a supporter of opposition politics, even if he had been laying low for six months or so.
But so far Ms Pardi hasn't coped to being on the other end of that call; it might put her in a legal jam if she did say that she was using an illegal cell phone in Malaysia.
It could also be that there is yet another friend of Zaharie out there who was at the other end of the line for the March 7th call.

I see that I'm a little late with this post. Oh well!
 
smaragdz
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:54 am

777Jet wrote:
awthompson wrote:
The mystery deepens.


It sure does:

'Report: MH370 pilot texted lady friend two days before tragedy'


So the pilot sent a text to a person? This is a groundbreaking development.
 
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Spyhunter
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:26 am

Indeed! There is nothing in the private lives of either pilot which could justify a conclusion that they were being blackmailed, or were suicidal.

Responding to Auchmithie, my arrest was indeed a colossal cock-up, worthy of an apology, damages and lunch at Thames House. I'm not going to get an apology, looks like I will be getting compensation, although not a huge amount - perhaps $375,000 or thereabouts, and I don't think the lunch is on. Since MI5 have been good enough to come to the party and undermine the prosecution by supplying documents the CPS and Thames Valley Police denied existed (letters from MI5 to me) I'm not complaining. If you think that I am going to stay silent about an airliner shoot-down because of a malicious prosecution, then forget it.

Reference of the images conviction would be to the Crown Court, not the Court of Appeal, with respect. Many CCRC references are misconceived, usually because there has been a failure to exhaust appeal rights. In my case a High Court judge has ruled that the reference was on "legitimate" grounds.

Responding to 777 Jet, jamming can be problematic - garbled or interrupted radio calls are entirely consistent with jamming, which is not always 100% effective. Sometimes the jammer is slow to follow changes of frequency, indeed rapid changes of frequency is one way to defeat it, if only temporarily, particularly if the new frequency is well away from the one being jammed. It is far from clear, but it does appear that the pilots were trying to declare an emergency.

I repeat that Boeing identified the starboard hatch/door as coming from a 777, and I note Boeing have not denied my assertion, first made publicly in 2014.

Good point from A W Thompson re ditching - IF the fin piece were from 9M-MRO then we would indeed be into an Ethiopian 767 scenario, but that bit has probably been raided off a Chinese 777. I expect the boys in Seattle are doing a roaring trade with China in miscellaneous 777 bits!

No argument with Zeke re the parts most likely to float. The hatch, being of non-honeycomb alloy construction would not stay afloat for long, but it rare for any aircraft wreckage to say afloat for months, let alone a couple of years, it just isn't buoyant enough. In a rough sea the wreckage will be pushed upright at some point and sink.

I have not been barred, despite the requests of those more interested in shutting discussion down than engaging in it, possibly because I have not resorted to abuse and am trying to make my points in a rational way. My intent is to get at the truth and prevent further tragedies, not cause distress. I am not accusing anyone on this site from intending to cause distress to the families of the crew by suggesting that they, or one of them, murdered their passengers, however mass-murder, or at least manslaughter, is what almost every poster is suggesting. If the crew or one of them flew the aircraft to the SIO with no hope of landing it, they were reckless at the very least. I fail to see how the families of the passengers are going to be more distressed by the SCS theory than the SIO theory.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:28 am

smaragdz wrote:
777Jet wrote:
awthompson wrote:
The mystery deepens.


It sure does:

'Report: MH370 pilot texted lady friend two days before tragedy'


So the pilot sent a text to a person? This is a groundbreaking development.


Not as groundbreaking a development as you reading and comprehending an entire post or article would be ;)

Anyway, if she is worried about people missunderstanding their private conversation about how wonderful the weather has been then so be it. When she is low on money look for a made up version of their conversation to become public. In the meantime, Malaysians will continue to blame others for losing and not being able to find their plane; comments after some of these new articles from some people with Malaysian flags are further evidence to me that the theory of evolution is correct.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:39 am

Spyhunter wrote:
I repeat that Boeing identified the starboard hatch/door as coming from a 777, and I note Boeing have not denied my assertion, first made publicly in 2014.


I repeat, where is the proof that B identified the item as coming from a 777?

No such article or media announcement exists because that never happened.

B is not in the business of denying such assertions or comments made by the general public.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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zeke
Posts: 14404
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:46 am

777 doors are very large pieces of equipment that weigh a lot. It is not the sort of thing you can take down to your local post office and post to Boeing.

For Boeing to receive such an item it would have gone via Malaysia with the NTSB being involved.

More fantasy land B/S
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:50 am

Spyhunter wrote:
I fail to see how the families of the passengers are going to be more distressed by the SCS theory than the SIO theory.


It's quite simple to see. Your SCS theory is out of the blue and there is nothing to support it. Nothing.

The SIO theory seems to have been accepted for a very long time. The bits and pieces of the plane that wash up around the IO every now and then confirm that flight MH370 ended somewhere in the IO, just like the Inmarsat data indicated. Even people who disagree on the most likely cause almost all agree with the SIO as the end point.

You SCS theory, especially as confident as you present it, can cause doubt in the minds of the most vulnerable who are most desperate to know what happened to their loved ones.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1804
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Flight MH370 was flown into water, says expert...

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:54 am

smaragdz wrote:
777Jet wrote:
awthompson wrote:
The mystery deepens.


It sure does:

'Report: MH370 pilot texted lady friend two days before tragedy'


So the pilot sent a text to a person? This is a groundbreaking development.


Not only that, but the lady in question has been forced to explain herself by people trying to make a mystery out of it and explicitly states that there is no mystery...

Yet "the mystery deepens..." :roll:
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
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