usflyer123
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the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:03 pm

i have checked out flights from Ireland to the US and i realized that the market is huge, which is surprising because ireland is just a country of 4.5 million people but still the JFK-DUB route had about 620k pax in 2015, DUB-ORD and DUB-BOS had both around 330k pax in 2015 and there are many more routes from DUB to EWR,PHL,IAD,ATL,CLT,LAX,SFO and LAX(maybe there are more i forgot).
also there are routes from SNN to JFK, BOS, EWR, ORD and PHL.
so what i was wondering is how this market is so big, is it related to the fact there are over 30 million irish americans? is it big business relations between ireland and the US? or is it connections pax?
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jetwet1
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:27 pm

Yes to all of the above, you have Irish Americans going back to the "homeland", thanks to the tax breaks a lot of companies set up their Euro head quarters in Ireland and of course you have the general tourism part.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:30 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
i have checked out flights from Ireland to the US and i realized that the market is huge, which is surprising because ireland is just a country of 4.5 million people but still the JFK-DUB route had about 620k pax in 2015, DUB-ORD and DUB-BOS had both around 330k pax in 2015 and there are many more routes from DUB to EWR,PHL,IAD,ATL,CLT,LAX,SFO and LAX(maybe there are more i forgot).
also there are routes from SNN to JFK, BOS, EWR, ORD and PHL.
so what i was wondering is how this market is so big, is it related to the fact there are over 30 million irish americans? is it big business relations between ireland and the US? or is it connections pax?

You forgot MCO from DUB, and with pre-clearence. :D
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ClassicLover
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:39 pm

Aer Lingus has said that up to 40% of their passengers are connecting from Europe, so the European market is also a big factor in the numbers.
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MIflyer12
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:45 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
is it related to the fact there are over 30 million irish americans?


Non-Irish visit Ireland, too. France's 84 million foreign visitors in 2014 weren't made up entirely of ex-French. Singapore is visited by non-Singaporeans.
 
usflyer123
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:42 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
is it related to the fact there are over 30 million irish americans?


Non-Irish visit Ireland, too. France's 84 million foreign visitors in 2014 weren't made up entirely of ex-French. Singapore is visited by non-Singaporeans.


yes but there is much more tourism in france than in ireland.
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lesfalls
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
is it related to the fact there are over 30 million irish americans?


Non-Irish visit Ireland, too. France's 84 million foreign visitors in 2014 weren't made up entirely of ex-French. Singapore is visited by non-Singaporeans.

Sorry to go off topic but do you know how many of the visitors to Poland were ex-polish? I know that many polish live abroad (the U.S,U.K,Germany etc.)and return to Poland in the summer.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
321neo
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:06 pm

EI begins flights to BDL next month.

In addition, EI is expected to announce 2 or possibly 3 more US cities in the coming weeks (MIA is almost certainly one of them). The airline is taking delivery of 4 brand new A330-300s between the end of this month and next Summer.

It may also be of interest to know that Dublin serves more European cities than there are served from London Heathrow.
 
usflyer123
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:28 pm

321neo wrote:
EI begins flights to BDL next month.

In addition, EI is expected to announce 2 or possibly 3 more US cities in the coming weeks (MIA is almost certainly one of them). The airline is taking delivery of 4 brand new A330-300s between the end of this month and next Summer.

It may also be of interest to know that Dublin serves more European cities than there are served from London Heathrow.


wow! i guess its also because of Ryanair.
maybe the other route will be IAH because of their codeshare with UA, but maybe it will be something out of the box like PVD.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
tcaeyx
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:08 pm

Can anyone shed any info on how they have been doing at LAX?
 
stratocruiser
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:26 pm

Perhaps it's as a result of being from an island nation, but the Irish themselves are also inveterate travellers, which partly explains why airlines like Ryanair have done very well in terms of passenger numbers from Ireland. Couple the Irish love of travel with the fact that a large proportion of the of the Irish population have relatives in North America and you end up with a very significant amount of westbound transatlantic tourist traffic originating in Ireland to add to the incoming tourist traffic from North America.
 
stratocruiser
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:53 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
321neo wrote:
EI begins flights to BDL next month.

In addition, EI is expected to announce 2 or possibly 3 more US cities in the coming weeks (MIA is almost certainly one of them). The airline is taking delivery of 4 brand new A330-300s between the end of this month and next Summer.

It may also be of interest to know that Dublin serves more European cities than there are served from London Heathrow.


wow! i guess its also because of Ryanair.
maybe the other route will be IAH because of their codeshare with UA, but maybe it will be something out of the box like PVD.


I would be surprised if it was IAH, as I do not see a potential One World carrier trying to develop further codeshares with UA. However DFW with a view to onward codeshares with AA might be a possibility, but I don't see either Texas destination as being high on the priority list of new destinations for Aer Lingus, as I think the market to/from Ireland would be somewhat limited. I may be wrong however and perhaps one or other of these destinations could sustain a couple of flights a week if there also was sufficient transit traffic through DUB. Another problem with these destinations is that they would require an A330 from the start unlike potential new destinations in the northeast of the USA which could initially be developed with the smaller 757.
 
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Narrowbodymech
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:59 pm

tcaeyx wrote:
Can anyone shed any info on how they have been doing at LAX?


EI A330's are departing DUB at MTOW and landing in LAX at MLW. The flights are doing very well, overbooked in fact! [url]:)[/url]
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Narrowbodymech
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:10 pm

I would be surprised if it was IAH, as I do not see a potential One World carrier trying to develop further codeshares with UA. However DFW with a view to onward codeshares with AA might be a possibility, but I don't see either Texas destination as being high on the priority list of new destinations for Aer Lingus, as I think the market to/from Ireland would be somewhat limited. I may be wrong however and perhaps one or other of these destinations could sustain a couple of flights a week if there also was sufficient transit traffic through DUB. Another problem with these destinations is that they would require an A330 from the start unlike potential new destinations in the northeast of the USA which could initially be developed with the smaller 757.[/quote]

Their planned North Atlantic JV with AA will probably see to DFW being announced, if not in this schedule then probably the next. Indeed AA's capacity at Dublin has increased hugely in comparison with United's, with 2 daily 332s from PHL and CLT respectively and a daily 752/763 from JFK. While the leap of faith required by EI to send a 330 into completely new territory might be quite large, they are also expanding aggressively with a view to becoming Walsh's jersey seller, at least until BA crawl out of the post-Brexit slump!
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cornishsimon
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:14 pm

Don't forget that EI serve more UK regional airports than BA do.

IAG/EI are growing DUB transatlantic with huge UK domestic / euro connecting traffic. off the top of my head I think its 14 UK plus 2 crown Dependencies, not to mention some codeshares on BE for example EXT


cs
 
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VS4ever
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:26 am

DUB is well placed for a number of reasons for US travel. The Expat populations particularly in the likes of BOS are key and the access to the UK regions helps too. My parents for example, who's nearest airport is BHX with no direct connection to BOS where I live, used to have to travel to LHR, which now they are getting on in years absolutely sucks and costs a fortune and then you get to deal with the wonderful Terminal E as a result, instead they hope over the Irish Sea, spend a couple of hours with some Irish hospitality, pre-clear US customs and fly straight into Terminal C as a domestic arrival, trust me my dad who is 70 this year is VERY excited by this prospect and is much easier for him to deal with.

EI had 337K pax in 2015 (from T-100 reports) from DUB and another 126K from SNN, up 9.2% and a whopping 40% respectively on 5% and 41% capacity increases, can't talk to yields, but in May to October average loads from Dublin were 86%, 96%, 91%, 96%, 94% and 88%, which highly suggests that if they could maintain yields, additional capacity might be in order. I will be interested to see what happens in 2016. SNN is not as hot with an average of mid 80's in summer, but still good.
No wonder there has been discussions about IAG and the Whale for EI... I bet if you did the analysis for JFK as well you would see something similar.
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downtown273
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:38 am

Also, Dublin airport serves much of Northern Ireland (UK), just 1 hour driving distance. The population of Northern Ireland is 1.8 million.

The flights from Belfast to the USA are very limited (EWR and MCO) and do not have pre-clearance. Many people prefer to drive to Dublin and enjoy pre-clearance than have to backtrack to LHR and connect flights there.
 
thedetroitpole
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:45 pm

There is actually a market for Dublin-Detroit. It is in my belief that Delta would be the obvious contender in this route, providing feed from the United States onward to Dublin. I, however, do not have the statistics on my persons, but can provide them as they become available.
 
usairways85
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:10 pm

Narrowbodymech wrote:
Their planned North Atlantic JV with AA will probably see to DFW being announced, if not in this schedule then probably the next. Indeed AA's capacity at Dublin has increased hugely in comparison with United's, with 2 daily 332s from PHL and CLT respectively and a daily 752/763 from JFK. While the leap of faith required by EI to send a 330 into completely new territory might be quite large, they are also expanding aggressively with a view to becoming Walsh's jersey seller, at least until BA crawl out of the post-Brexit slump!

AA actually has 3x 332 a day from CLT, PHL, ORD along with the 752 from JFK.

The one thing though is there are some routes where fares to DUB, more so off-season, are quite low. I mentioned in the other thread after UA plans to upgrade EWR-DUB to a 772 in the winter while there are plenty of roundtrip fares for $450-650.
 
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hispanola
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:29 pm

downtown273 wrote:
Also, Dublin airport serves much of Northern Ireland (UK), just 1 hour driving distance. The population of Northern Ireland is 1.8 million.

The flights from Belfast to the USA are very limited (EWR and MCO) and do not have pre-clearance. Many people prefer to drive to Dublin and enjoy pre-clearance than have to backtrack to LHR and connect flights there.


It takes an hour from Newry if there isn't much traffic, but from Belfast you spend roughly 2 hours on the road. BFS is a good option for business travelers in Belfast and just about everyone else north of Armagh and Down (think Derry, Ballymena, Coleraine).

You can also fly to LAS from BFS.
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DolphinAir747
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:34 pm

usairways85 wrote:

The one thing though is there are some routes where fares to DUB, more so off-season, are quite low. I mentioned in the other thread after UA plans to upgrade EWR-DUB to a 772 in the winter while there are plenty of roundtrip fares for $450-650.


But this single 772 would be a replacement for 2 752s, no? Seems more cost-effective to have a single flight than two, though this change would definitely take up the number of J seats while reducing Y, probably a good move outside the tourist season.
 
superjeff
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:02 pm

stratocruiser wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
321neo wrote:
EI begins flights to BDL next month.

In addition, EI is expected to announce 2 or possibly 3 more US cities in the coming weeks (MIA is almost certainly one of them). The airline is taking delivery of 4 brand new A330-300s between the end of this month and next Summer.

It may also be of interest to know that Dublin serves more European cities than there are served from London Heathrow.


wow! i guess its also because of Ryanair.
maybe the other route will be IAH because of their codeshare with UA, but maybe it will be something out of the box like PVD.


I would be surprised if it was IAH, as I do not see a potential One World carrier trying to develop further codeshares with UA. However DFW with a view to onward codeshares with AA might be a possibility, but I don't see either Texas destination as being high on the priority list of new destinations for Aer Lingus, as I think the market to/from Ireland would be somewhat limited. I may be wrong however and perhaps one or other of these destinations could sustain a couple of flights a week if there also was sufficient transit traffic through DUB. Another problem with these destinations is that they would require an A330 from the start unlike potential new destinations in the northeast of the USA which could initially be developed with the smaller 757.


Actually, DFW would work. It's partner to be American's largest hub, and I would assume EI will ultimately join the JV between AA, BA, and OY. Dublin would be a convenient hub and the DFW cachement(sp?) area is pretty massive, with a large source of both corporate and individual travelers.
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:21 pm

Can anyone please explain the rule according to which there should be a quota of Shannon flights necessary to operate DUB? And does it apply to foreign carriers only? Or extra EU? And what's the quota? Thanks
 
usairways85
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:44 pm

DolphinAir747 wrote:
usairways85 wrote:

The one thing though is there are some routes where fares to DUB, more so off-season, are quite low. I mentioned in the other thread after UA plans to upgrade EWR-DUB to a 772 in the winter while there are plenty of roundtrip fares for $450-650.


But this single 772 would be a replacement for 2 752s, no? Seems more cost-effective to have a single flight than two, though this change would definitely take up the number of J seats while reducing Y, probably a good move outside the tourist season.

My understanding was that EWR-DUB was generally 1x 752 from Nov-Apr.
 
neutral
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:48 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
Can anyone please explain the rule according to which there should be a quota of Shannon flights necessary to operate DUB? And does it apply to foreign carriers only? Or extra EU? And what's the quota? Thanks


That rule is gone years now at this stage both airports operate separately to the USA
 
commavia
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:17 pm

Narrowbodymech wrote:
Their planned North Atlantic JV with AA will probably see to DFW being announced, if not in this schedule then probably the next. Indeed AA's capacity at Dublin has increased hugely in comparison with United's, with 2 daily 332s from PHL and CLT respectively and a daily 752/763 from JFK. While the leap of faith required by EI to send a 330 into completely new territory might be quite large, they are also expanding aggressively with a view to becoming Walsh's jersey seller, at least until BA crawl out of the post-Brexit slump!


I, too, will be very interested to see how the market evolves once Aer Lingus and AA are integrated into the same metal-neutral JV between the U.S. and Ireland.

As a DFW resident, I selfishly would be thrilled to see Aer Lingus at DFW because it would open up a new (and excellent) option for access to Europe. That said, I can see the skepticism in some quarters considering that the local market is relatively small and virtually all of the 1-stop connectivity is already available from one if not multiple competitors already. But even if DUB-DFW doesn't pan out, I still think there is definite potential for more capacity between AA's U.S. hubs and DUB as a result of the JV. I can easily envision Aer Lingus not only adding DUB-MIA, but also a second daily (at least in the summer) A330 DUB-PHL, plus I could also see AA upgauging JFK-DUB.
 
ckfred
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:38 pm

Knowing people who have connected at both LHR and DUB, they find that connecting at DUB for points in the U.K. as well as western Europe is much easier. Add to the mix that DUB has pre-clearance for travel to the U.S., and the fact that EI and U.S. carriers are flying to many people between the U.S. and Ireland is a no-brainer.
 
Viscount724
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:27 am

neutral wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Can anyone please explain the rule according to which there should be a quota of Shannon flights necessary to operate DUB? And does it apply to foreign carriers only? Or extra EU? And what's the quota? Thanks


That rule is gone years now at this stage both airports operate separately to the USA


US-EU has been Open Skies since 2008, and even without that agreement, the previous SNN restrictions would have ended by then anyway under an earlier agreement to phase out those restrictions.
 
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Narrowbodymech
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:01 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Narrowbodymech wrote:
Their planned North Atlantic JV with AA will probably see to DFW being announced, if not in this schedule then probably the next. Indeed AA's capacity at Dublin has increased hugely in comparison with United's, with 2 daily 332s from PHL and CLT respectively and a daily 752/763 from JFK. While the leap of faith required by EI to send a 330 into completely new territory might be quite large, they are also expanding aggressively with a view to becoming Walsh's jersey seller, at least until BA crawl out of the post-Brexit slump!

AA actually has 3x 332 a day from CLT, PHL, ORD along with the 752 from JFK.

The one thing though is there are some routes where fares to DUB, more so off-season, are quite low. I mentioned in the other thread after UA plans to upgrade EWR-DUB to a 772 in the winter while there are plenty of roundtrip fares for $450-650.


My apologies, you're dead right, I forgot the ORD flight! With EI starting EWR now as well, it will be interesting to see how that upgauge tactic pans out for United!
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JannEejit
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:44 pm

cornishsimon wrote:
Don't forget that EI serve more UK regional airports than BA do.

IAG/EI are growing DUB transatlantic with huge UK domestic / euro connecting traffic. off the top of my head I think its 14 UK plus 2 crown Dependencies, not to mention some codeshares on BE for example EXT


cs


Correct, the UK regional airports are awash on a daily basis with Aer Lingus Regional branded Stobart ATR's doing multiple daily connections to DUB (and elsewhere in Eire). I got a great deal years ago with Aer Lingus from GLA>DUB>LAX and home again, with the added appeal of pre-clearance in DUB and a very comfortable ride in the 2 seated port window side layout on an A330-200. That was back in 2002, I don't know what it's like now, but back then it felt like a great little 'well kept secret'...
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:23 pm

The main reason IAG were interested in Aer Lingus was because of the large Irish American population and its strong brand presence in the US.

I think the potential for Aer Lingus under IAG is huge. Bearing mind IAG has barely got started with Aer Lingus yet to join Oneworld and the AA/BA joint-venture, nor has Aer Lingus yet adopted the Avios frequent flyer currency, there's massive scope for growth.
 
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OA260
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:50 am

hispanola wrote:
downtown273 wrote:
Also, Dublin airport serves much of Northern Ireland (UK), just 1 hour driving distance. The population of Northern Ireland is 1.8 million.

The flights from Belfast to the USA are very limited (EWR and MCO) and do not have pre-clearance. Many people prefer to drive to Dublin and enjoy pre-clearance than have to backtrack to LHR and connect flights there.


It takes an hour from Newry if there isn't much traffic, but from Belfast you spend roughly 2 hours on the road. BFS is a good option for business travelers in Belfast and just about everyone else north of Armagh and Down (think Derry, Ballymena, Coleraine).

You can also fly to LAS from BFS.


Correct I was wondering what speed limits the guy was breaking ;)
 
Amiga500
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Re: the US-Ireland market

Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:07 am

LHRFlyer wrote:
The main reason IAG were interested in Aer Lingus was because of the large Irish American population and its strong brand presence in the US.


No indeed.

They were interested solely 'cos we are class!


usflyer123 wrote:
so what i was wondering is how this market is so big


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