ROCDLFAN
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AC in smaller US markets

Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:31 pm

From YYZ specifically AC (through Air Georgian) operates
SYR
ROC
MDT

Formerly ALB, PWM, and I believe BGR were on the list. I've always wondered how on a 1900D only AC is able to be sustainable in those markets. Years ago when they started, they contracted all of their staffing and ground handling to UA or AA. Now however through mergers and other changes, AC has their own ticket counter space, gate space, and although outsourced, employees specifically destination to only AC. Does anyone know how these routes are able to be maintained, as well as any predictions as to what could happen when the 1900's are phased out?
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tomaheath
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:42 am

They were in at MHT as well I think they left 5 or 6 years ago.
 
Beatyair
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:59 am

Lots of cross boarder families, wish they had more of that out west.
 
Viscount724
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:06 am

Beatyair wrote:
Lots of cross border families, wish they had more of that out west.


And some 6th freedom international connections to the rest of the world. Doesn't take many of those, especially in business class, to generate more than enough revenue to cover the cost of maintaining those small markets. For many of those small US cities, connecting at YYZ to Europe/Asia/South America etc. is probably just as convenient as using major US hubs, and AC's 6th freedom international fares are often very attractive, frequently lower than from YYZ itself, especially with the weak Canadian dollar.
 
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spinkid
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:25 am

I believe they flew to HPN as well at one point.
 
UPNYGuy
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:48 am

they are at BDL too, but those are crossed with dash-8 now IIRC depending on time of year.
 
UPNYGuy
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:50 am

...yes, my previous post is correct. BDL is a mix of DH8 and B1900. I would expect that if (when) AC draws the 19 seater down, the rest of the flights are moved to other express partners. However, some of the B1900 are younger than the DH8 that are currently in service.
 
Viscount724
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:01 am

UPNYGuy wrote:
...yes, my previous post is correct. BDL is a mix of DH8 and B1900. I would expect that if (when) AC draws the 19 seater down, the rest of the flights are moved to other express partners. However, some of the B1900 are younger than the DH8 that are currently in service.


Minor correction. The AC Express (Air Georgian and EVAS) Beech 1900Ds have 18 seats.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:54 am

They also flew to SDF, and I want to say CHS and JAX, the latter two with CR2s?
 
bdl2stl2pvg
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:17 am

[/quote]Minor correction. The AC Express (Air Georgian and EVAS) Beech 1900Ds have 18 seats.[/quote]

Yes, that is one nice feature of their Beech 1900Ds

No seat 9E, so without the three across in the last row, you can have a restroom. I found that to be a nice surprise vs. the USAir Express 1900Ds that I used to experience in the 1990's.

They operated these to Dayton for a while.
 
usflyer123
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:46 am

the pax on these flights are mostly connecting in YYZ/YUL.
once i had to travel to BNA from europe and YYZ connection was the best option.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:26 pm

I'll tell you how it's sustainable. Do you know how much AC pays its crew? for the point of this discussion, let's just say much much lower than US regionals.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:54 pm

It's also interesting to note the secondary airports that AC has tried with mainline equipment such as ONT, SMF, SNA, and SJC. They are back in SJC now, but flew SJC-YYZ back in the day and SCJ-YOW for a very brief time.
 
flyCMH
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:08 pm

bdl2stl2pvg wrote:

They operated these to Dayton for a while.


Correct. Back in 2000, Air Canada announced a myriad of new transboarder routes to medium sized US cities:

Toronto-Dayton 4Xdaily by Air Georgian
Toronto-Albany 3Xdaily by Air Georgian
Toronto-Grand Rapids 3Xdaily by Air Georgian
Toronto-Louisville 3Xdaily by Air Georgian
Toronto-South Bend 3Xdaily by Air Georgian
Toronto-Akron 3Xdaily by Air Georgian

All were slowly stripped away during the financial crisis. DAY-YYZ was pared to 1x daily on the Beech 1900 before being discontinued in May of 2011.
 
HVNandrew
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:58 pm

UPNYGuy wrote:
...yes, my previous post is correct. BDL is a mix of DH8 and B1900. I would expect that if (when) AC draws the 19 seater down, the rest of the flights are moved to other express partners. However, some of the B1900 are younger than the DH8 that are currently in service.

BDL is unique in that it has service to YUL as well. I believe that in most of the other smaller US markets, AC only flies to YYZ.

In my own, personal experience, the YUL-BDL fares are through the roof. Generally not a competitive option when deciding between there and LGA.
 
YZF101
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:08 pm

With the common economic activities in the West ie agriculture, oil/gas, are there many shorthaul services from Calgary to places in Montana, maybe North Dakota, Idaho, western Washington? The connections from Calgary to the world are pretty substantial, especially as said above that the dollar in Canada is historically lower than the US dollar.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:06 am

AC also flew Dash-8s on PVD/HPN-YYZ before 9/11. Air Nova also flew ALB-YUL before 9/11 as well.

AC ALB-YYZ ended back in 2013 or 2014 I believe.
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UsAir737
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:48 am

PVD was another. Think that ended a few years ago. But with recent additions the pain of losing YYZ is minimal
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Viscount724
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:25 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
It's also interesting to note the secondary airports that AC has tried with mainline equipment such as ONT, SMF, SNA, and SJC. They are back in SJC now, but flew SJC-YYZ back in the day and SCJ-YOW for a very brief time.


And the return to SJC in May after about 15 years absence is with Jazz, not mainline. Twice-daily YVR-SJC CRJ-705s (CRJ-900s with fewer seats).
 
UPNYGuy
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:44 am

Viscount724 wrote:
UPNYGuy wrote:
...yes, my previous post is correct. BDL is a mix of DH8 and B1900. I would expect that if (when) AC draws the 19 seater down, the rest of the flights are moved to other express partners. However, some of the B1900 are younger than the DH8 that are currently in service.


Minor correction. The AC Express (Air Georgian and EVAS) Beech 1900Ds have 18 seats.


yes, that is correct.
 
teneriffe77
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:56 am

In the case of SYR they did operate Dash 8's at one time before leaving the market and them coming back with the 1900's. They started out with 2 flights but then a year or so ago increased it to the 3 that they operate now.
 
ATLFlyer323
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:04 am

I recently flew AC from CLE-YYZ-HND on their Dash 100, and the connection was quick and painless! The flight was only about 60% full and I was the only one connecting internationally, but pretty much everyone else on the plane was in a suit. So I'm guessing they get some pretty decent fares. CLE is supposed to become all CRJ supposedly soon. Also in CLE while they had a very small designated check in counter, everyone else helping you was a UA employee. I usually try and route CAK-DTW-XXX on Delta, but I think AC through YYZ may be a new second found option for me. I try and avoid ORD like the plague and the connection through YYZ and the international terminal itself was wonderful.
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marktci
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:42 am

spinkid wrote:
I believe they flew to HPN as well at one point.


Yep. I flew that on a 1900 in 2008. The only problem was getting a cab in HPN once I got there.
 
cgnnrw
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:12 pm

ROCDLFAN wrote:
From YYZ specifically AC (through Air Georgian) operates
SYR
ROC
MDT


usflyer123 wrote:
the pax on these flights are mostly connecting in YYZ/YUL.


I've done the YYZ-MDT route twice both times not connecting to another flight. I was in SE Penna visiting family and did a quick trip up to Toronto for work. The YYZ flight is the main reason Harrisburg puts "international" in its name.
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dustdevil2
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:43 pm

I flew AC from YYZ to ABE (Allentown PA) but it was a while back...maybe 2005? It was also a 1900D
 
Lexy
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:20 am

AC really needs to upgauge BNA-YYZ. 3 CRJ-100's are really half-hearted effort when WS is running a pretty new Dash on the same pairing.
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Buddys747
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:23 am

The MDT-YYZ flights a few months ago changed the late morning turn from YYZ to MDT to RON at Harrisburg. There is also a later afternoon turn. Must be doing ok to keep going as long as it has.
 
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KGRB
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:28 am

I understand that AC used to fly YYZ-GRB in the 1990s. Does anyone know what kind of equipment they used?
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Viscount724
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:39 am

Lexy wrote:
AC really needs to upgauge BNA-YYZ. 3 CRJ-100's are really half-hearted effort when WS is running a pretty new Dash on the same pairing.


It's the WS effort BNA-YYZ I would call "half-hearted", with only 1 daily flight and only for 4 months (mid-June to mid-October), compared to AC's year-round service, currently 3 daily. That's a much better product to attract business traffic and generate higher yields. The frequency also permits a much wider variety of connections to the rest of AC's network. AC block time on the CRJs is also about 20 minutes faster than the WS Q400.
 
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longhauler
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:42 am

Viscount724 wrote:
AC block time on the CRJs is also about 20 minutes faster than the WS Q400.

Not to mention better legroom on the CRJ and 28 less passengers lining up for the sole lav.
I'd take a CRJ over a Q any day!
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ericm2031
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:21 am

Viscount724 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
It's also interesting to note the secondary airports that AC has tried with mainline equipment such as ONT, SMF, SNA, and SJC. They are back in SJC now, but flew SJC-YYZ back in the day and SCJ-YOW for a very brief time.


And the return to SJC in May after about 15 years absence is with Jazz, not mainline. Twice-daily YVR-SJC CRJ-705s (CRJ-900s with fewer seats).


I believe SMF was Jazz as well, unless they did fly mainline there as well.
 
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knope2001
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Re: AC in smaller US markets

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:47 pm

KGRB wrote:
I understand that AC used to fly YYZ-GRB in the 1990s. Does anyone know what kind of equipment they used?


It was J31. and was tagged with Madison -- twice daily on weekdays and if I recall correctly ran YYZ-MSN-GRB-YYZ.

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