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enilria
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EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:58 pm

This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen, but I thought we could all enjoy a good laugh.

13 years old and a widebody aircraft that flies 12 hours per day?!?!? Unheard of, LOL. Apparently all the USA carriers are discriminating against Americans with their old widebodies and lack of A380s.

Two days after the Emirates EK521 flight carrying 300 passengers and crew from Thiruvananthapuram to Dubai crash-landed at the Dubai International Airport, former Union Minister Shashi Tharoor voiced his concern at the “visibly inferior” aircrafts that the airline operates on its Kerala route compared to its European sector.

Posting on his Facebook page, Tharoor said, “I have taken flights on this route many times myself and have been concerned about the age and condition of the aircraft Emirates seems to use on this sector. These are visibly inferior to the aircraft on Emirates' European sectors, for example.”

His comments came hours after Khaleej Times reported that the 13-year-old Emirates aircraft had flown 60 hours in five days prior to its crash-landing in Dubai.

While the cause of the crash is still being investigated, the former UN diplomat called on Emirates “to investigate not only the specific circumstances of this crash-landing but also to review their policy on the type, age and quality of aircraft used on the Dubai-Kerala sector.”

However, experts point out that Emirates isn’t the only airline that allegedly reserves “inferior” aircrafts for the Indian sector.

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/ai ... ates-47683
 
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moo
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:13 pm

Doesnt India have (or had) a limit on aircraft size that can be flown to Indian airports that was specifically aimed at excluding the A380? Im sure thats been a topic here on a few occasions...

Oh wait, it was lifted in 2014 but only for the four main Indian airports of New Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore and Hyderabad. EK521 was operating from Thiruvananthapuram, which the Indian government has not approved for A380 flights.

So this guy can go play with himself.

Also, good PR dude,going to come in handy that particular quote next time you want cheap stuff from Boeing, calling one of their aircraft "inferior" ;)
 
thomasphoto60
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:18 pm

Hey, they did the same thing to the two Texas routes, must be racism......biggoted bastards :P
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ikolkyo
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:26 pm

Absolutely stupid thing to say, 13 years old is absolutely nothing. All it probably needed was a cabin refresh and then it looks like it just came from the factory.
 
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zeke
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Air India operates something like 15 777.

What else is EK supposed to operate there ?
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enilria
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:35 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Absolutely stupid thing to say, 13 years old is absolutely nothing. All it probably needed was a cabin refresh and then it looks like it just came from the factory.

I don't doubt the cabin is probably not that great, but the cabin has nothing really to do with safety if everything is mechanically functional. The age of the plane was a really dumb road of criticism to take.

The irony is that EK can use this to justify more A380s into India!
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:57 pm

enilria wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Absolutely stupid thing to say, 13 years old is absolutely nothing. All it probably needed was a cabin refresh and then it looks like it just came from the factory.

I don't doubt the cabin is probably not that great, but the cabin has nothing really to do with safety if everything is mechanically functional. The age of the plane was a really dumb road of criticism to take.

The irony is that EK can use this to justify more A380s into India!


Reason I speak about the cabin is that Tharoor says this specific statement
“I have taken flights on this route many times myself and have been concerned about the age and condition of the aircraft Emirates seems to use on this sector. These are visibly inferior to the aircraft on Emirates' European sectors, for example.”
 
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lebda
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:14 pm

I wouldn't go so far to say this statement is stupid. While I don't think safety is a concern here (13 years is not old at all for a plane - far older airliners are being flown right now and are as safe at ever), it's not impossible that they're sending their less fancy planes to South Asia.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:41 pm

I would think that EK took into account the difference between the European & Indian market conditions when assigning aircraft to operate those flights. Nothing personal, just meeting the demands of the market.
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sixtyseven
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:42 pm

AIRCRAFT. Not AIRCRAFTS.

Drives me crazy. Aircraft is both singular and plural.
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HALtheAI
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:49 pm

If this is of such concern to India, maybe they should offer EK open skies, but on the condition that all flights be on aircraft no older than, say, 3 years. I'm quite positive Emirates would gladly take a deal like that.
 
Tedd
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:53 pm

I`d suggest for a former UN diplomat that Tharoor isn`t being very diplomatic, if these comments are correct.
If he had any diplomacy, he`d keep quiet until the findings of the accident are made public. Even if it`s found that
the crew were in anyway to blame, his only comment should be to the effect that he would be profoundly grateful that
non of his citizens were killed, & that the plane, a well maintained, well run, & supremely built aircraft, may well
have been responsible for that outcome.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:36 am

In Emirates terms, 13 years old may in fact be considered 'quite old' but certainly not old within the lifetime of a modern airliner generally. I wonder if this fellow is being influenced by perceptions ofthe cabin interior and nothing else ? Was the aircraft a candidiate for imminent return to lessor or retirement ( I don't know if leased or purchased). In a sense he may be right about older crafts being used by Emirates and others in certain territories, and they did use their also not so old but 'Emirates old' A345 fleet into Kabul until very recently for alleged 'insurance write off' reasons too. Does he have a point, however misguided ?
 
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cougar15
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:41 am

he should search this very site for the registration. plenty of pictures of this frame at BUD, DUS and MUC from this year. so if it´s good enough for regular runs to Germany, it sure as heck is good enough for the Indian subcontinent. what a bloody darft remark!
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JetBuddy
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:06 am

I don't think this has anything to do with 777 vs A380. It's that he claims Emirates is using equipment which is visibly more worn on the India routes than on the Europe routes.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:14 am

Because a gutted out, brand new, 787 sitting on the maintenance ramp at DEL is a nice sight to see.
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SATexan
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:00 am

Shashi Tharoor is a damn articulate speaker, avid social media buff and a great debater. If y'all don't know him just look up his youtube videos. He is just stating an opinion. He is from the TRV area (refer to EK 521 incident) and essentially speaking to the choir there. It has nothing to do with what EK does to Texas routes.
 
ChrisEtihad272
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:11 am

Im not suprised they use older aircraft on these routes planes are not respected by passengers on these routes and always end up needing a damn good cleaning.
 
thomasphoto60
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:15 am

SATexan wrote:
It has nothing to do with what EK does to Texas routes.


Lighten up, it was a joke, notice the :P at the end?
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luv2cattlecall
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:18 am

Could one of the tracker gurus here please point me to somewhere that would list what reg flew that route for the past week or two?
 
coolian2
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:27 am

It's a stereotype, but I see the victim mentality in India is alive and well.
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:39 am

I have been called racist by for denying excess waiver, not having an aisle seat, denying payout of televisions damaged when someone checked them in, and when someone tried to claim $4000 dollars of electronics were in a bag which was later located and found to be full of used clothes and dirty socks. People at airports often use the race card when it suits them/when they want something. Of course I don't fall for that kind of shit, but some more sensitive souls do.
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:39 am

luv2cattlecall wrote:
Could one of the tracker gurus here please point me to somewhere that would list what reg flew that route for the past week or two?


Try FR24 though it will only show the past week if you are not paid member

EK521 is only flown 5 days a week. Over the past week it has been operated by a mix of 772, 773, 77W & A332 aircraft

Regos include

772-A6-EMK
773-A6-EMW
77W-A6-ENE
A332-A6-EAK(3 times),A6-EAF,A6-EAQ(twice),A6-EAS

On a separate note he should look in his own backyard before commenting on other airlines age of aircraft. Air India operates the oldest A320's in the world (except for 1 that is older which is operated by Jordan Aviation). The oldest A320 in AI's fleet in only 27 years old. Im wondering what sort of condition these aircraft are in. Im going to take a guess that they are probably worse than the EK 777's he is talking about. It also makes sense that an airline like EK would operate the older aircraft closer to home and use the newer, more efficient aircraft on longer routes.
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:26 am

aerorobnz wrote:
I have been called racist by for denying excess waiver, not having an aisle seat, denying payout of televisions damaged when someone checked them in, and when someone tried to claim $4000 dollars of electronics were in a bag which was later located and found to be full of used clothes and dirty socks. People at airports often use the race card when it suits them/when they want something. Of course I don't fall for that kind of shit, but some more sensitive souls do.

Unfortunately it is an easy card to drop. I've seen people far from racist accused of being so for small gain.

But putting a shorter range 777 on a short range mission that requires a high density configuration isn't racist. It is business sense. It sounds like a politician wants to play on the people's fears. Far too much of that happening lately globally...

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gcskye
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:26 am

Any chance he was a plant by Emirates/the UAE? Using the media attention around his comments would be a great wedge to attack the aircraft type limits--and, indirectly, the seat limits--on the bilateral. It plays out with Emirates denying the racism but offering a conciliatory gesture if India will permit...

I realize this speculation is too wild to be real, but it makes for a fun thought. :)
 
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:34 am

luv2cattlecall wrote:
Could one of the tracker gurus here please point me to somewhere that would list what reg flew that route for the past week or two?


Courtesy of the Jet Tracker section at theeksource.com

Date Flight No From Via To Registration Type Configuration
07/07/2016 EK569 Bangalore Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
07/07/2016 EK506 Dubai Mumbai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
07/07/2016 EK507 Mumbai Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
07/07/2016 EK568 Dubai Bangalore A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
08/07/2016 EK569 Bangalore Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
08/07/2016 EK111 Dubai Budapest A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
08/07/2016 EK112 Budapest Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
09/07/2016 EK516 Dubai Delhi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
09/07/2016 EK517 Delhi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
11/07/2016 EK606 Dubai Karachi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
11/07/2016 EK607 Karachi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
11/07/2016 EK630 Dubai Multan A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
11/07/2016 EK631 Multan Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
12/07/2016 EK749 Dubai Tunis A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
12/07/2016 EK749 Tunis Malta Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
13/07/2016 EK530 Dubai Kochi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
13/07/2016 EK531 Kochi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
13/07/2016 EK630 Dubai Multan A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
13/07/2016 EK631 Multan Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
14/07/2016 EK530 Dubai Kochi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
14/07/2016 EK531 Kochi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
14/07/2016 EK839 Dubai Bahrain A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
14/07/2016 EK840 Bahrain Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
14/07/2016 EK568 Dubai Bangalore A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
15/07/2016 EK569 Bangalore Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
15/07/2016 EK729 Dubai Entebbe A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
15/07/2016 EK730 Entebbe Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
16/07/2016 EK2807 Dubai Medina A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
16/07/2016 EK2808 Medina Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
16/07/2016 EK516 Dubai Delhi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
16/07/2016 EK517 Delhi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
16/07/2016 EK542 Dubai Chennai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
17/07/2016 EK543 Chennai Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
17/07/2016 EK506 Dubai Mumbai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
17/07/2016 EK507 Mumbai Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
18/07/2016 EK725 Dubai Dar Es Salaam A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
18/07/2016 EK726 Dar Es Salaam Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
19/07/2016 EK111 Dubai Budapest A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
19/07/2016 EK112 Budapest Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
20/07/2016 EK530 Dubai Kochi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
20/07/2016 EK531 Kochi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
21/07/2016 EK875 Dubai Kuwait A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
21/07/2016 EK876 Kuwait Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
22/07/2016 EK749 Dubai Tunis A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
22/07/2016 EK749 Tunis Malta Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
23/07/2016 EK530 Dubai Kochi A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
23/07/2016 EK531 Kochi Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
23/07/2016 EK875 Dubai Kuwait A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
23/07/2016 EK876 Kuwait Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
24/07/2016 EK544 Dubai Chennai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
24/07/2016 EK545 Chennai Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
25/07/2016 EK729 Dubai Entebbe A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
25/07/2016 EK730 Entebbe Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
26/07/2016 EK807 Dubai Madinah A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
26/07/2016 EK808 Madinah Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
26/07/2016 EK726 Dar Es Salaam Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
27/07/2016 EK506 Dubai Mumbai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
27/07/2016 EK507 Mumbai Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
27/07/2016 EK542 Dubai Chennai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
28/07/2016 EK543 Chennai Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
28/07/2016 EK729 Dubai Entebbe A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
28/07/2016 EK730 Entebbe Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
29/07/2016 EK866 Dubai Muscat A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
29/07/2016 EK867 Muscat Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
29/07/2016 EK785 Dubai Abuja A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
29/07/2016 EK786 Abuja Accra Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
30/07/2016 EK785 Dubai Abuja A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
30/07/2016 EK786 Abuja Accra Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
31/07/2016 EK873 Dubai Kuwait A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
31/07/2016 EK874 Kuwait Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
31/07/2016 EK875 Dubai Kuwait A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
31/07/2016 EK876 Kuwait Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
01/08/2016 EK785 Dubai Abuja A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
01/08/2016 EK786 Abuja Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
02/08/2016 EK749 Dubai Tunis A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
02/08/2016 EK749 Tunis Malta Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
03/08/2016 EK520 Dubai Thiruvananthapuram A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
03/08/2016 EK521 Thiruvananthapuram Dubai A6-EMW B777-300 12F/42J/310Y
 
747megatop
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:48 am

SATexan wrote:
Shashi Tharoor is a damn articulate speaker, avid social media buff and a great debater. If y'all don't know him just look up his youtube videos. He is just stating an opinion. He is from the TRV area (refer to EK 521 incident) and essentially speaking to the choir there. It has nothing to do with what EK does to Texas routes.

But the problem is that his opinion defies logic. What does sending a 13 year old plane to any particular place have to do with racism? SEA does not receive an A380 inspite of being an important gateway after LAX & SFO west of the rockies; is that racism?
 
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:07 am

747megatop wrote:
SATexan wrote:
Shashi Tharoor is a damn articulate speaker, avid social media buff and a great debater. If y'all don't know him just look up his youtube videos. He is just stating an opinion. He is from the TRV area (refer to EK 521 incident) and essentially speaking to the choir there. It has nothing to do with what EK does to Texas routes.

But the problem is that his opinion defies logic. What does sending a 13 year old plane to any particular place have to do with racism? SEA does not receive an A380 inspite of being an important gateway after LAX & SFO west of the rockies; is that racism?



Shashi Tharoor never used the term "racism". It was used by the news site. I don't think Shashi Tharoor will throw around "racism" term just like that. The paper put that headline to grab eyeballs, as they tend to do. Heck, even posters here in A.Net do multiple times. Even this thread, right headline would be to say "putting (13-year) old 777s", instead it comes across as sending 777s itself, new or old is claimed to be racism. Not just newspapers & politicians, many want recognition, either for their news, views or threads :)

And as pointed out by the report, its not just EK. NWA's DC10s were being sent to BOM for a long time, I think one of the last few stations to host their DC10s before they were replaced by A330. Similarly, LH used to send the old 747s with no personal IFE to BLR till 4-5 years back when it was finally replaced with the 747-8i to BLR.
Last edited by blrsea on Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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neutrino
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:22 am

enilria wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Absolutely stupid thing to say, 13 years old is absolutely nothing. All it probably needed was a cabin refresh and then it looks like it just came from the factory.

I don't doubt the cabin is probably not that great, but the cabin has nothing really to do with safety if everything is mechanically functional. The age of the plane was a really dumb road of criticism to take.

The irony is that EK can use this to justify more A380s into India!

And if that happens, the cretin will claim that it's because of him that his "subjects" will henceforth enjoy flying in brand spanking new super luxurious giants of the skies.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
sas931
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:54 am

As a first he could look into how OLD aircrafts flying in India are....
My guess, a lot of them is way older than 13years..
Most airlines does not dedicate one specific aircraft to on specific route. Aircrafts are rotated as he will see if he checks out A6-EMW, as mentioned
earlier.
 
BrooklyBOMgal
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:36 am

Like blrsea said, Mr. Sashi Tharoor never used the term racist. Even the link does not say Mr. Tharoor called EK racist. The word racist appears only twice in the entire article...once in the title to grab eyeballs (just like the the thread starter and one gentleman here has gone on to say that the victim mentality is alive and kicking in India) and once in the article referring to an FA's rant on facebook. I have travelled EK from BOM many times...BOM-DXB-LHR and back and many times the BOM-DXB was on newer aircraft. But TRV is not BOM and EK is known to use older aircraft on that routes. Nothing wrong in that...it is the airline's prerogative. Use ur best aircraft on your most profitable/lucrative routes. What the thread starter does not know is that Mr. Tharoor is now a politician and was probably playing to the audience but he did have a point when he said EK uses their older aircraft on the DXB TRV flights. Now is making a valid point racist just because u r dark skinned or because u come from a poor country?
 
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:00 pm

enilria wrote:
These are visibly inferior to the aircraft on Emirates' European sectors, for example.

While the cause of the crash is still being investigated, the former UN diplomat called on Emirates “to investigate not only the specific circumstances of this crash-landing but also to review their policy on the type, age and quality of aircraft used on the Dubai-Kerala sector.”


Hmm, lets see, put your oldest aircraft (with your least updated interiors) on your longer and profitable routes and your best aircraft with your new shiny interiors on your shorter Indian routes. Yup makes perfect sense.

lebda wrote:
I wouldn't go so far to say this statement is stupid. While I don't think safety is a concern here (13 years is not old at all for a plane - far older airliners are being flown right now and are as safe at ever), it's not impossible that they're sending their less fancy planes to South Asia.


But it's an naïve statement, he is linking the accident to the age of the aircraft. No one is disputing the 773's are a bit dated compared with EK's new A380's and 77W's, but he is making a link between this and the cause of the accident when the full cause has yet to be established.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:14 pm

Thirteen year old aircraft are perfectly fine, but the appearance of the cabin on some of these EK planes is really bad. Some are falling apart, old seats, very old IFE etc. The point is, usually there is a noticeable difference to passengers between these planes and the newer planes they use to Europe and Asia.

EK doesn't seem to want to refurbish them, I guess because they will be retired soon, or are only used on lower yielding routes. Having said that, I have no doubt these aircraft are safe to fly. They are flown quite a lot, but I believe EK has a large engineering department which does regular maintenance on all aircraft.
 
na
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:07 pm

Surely the vast majority of passengers would prefer flying on the A380 vs. the 777, but this complaint is rather funny from a country that isnt exactly A380-ready.
 
BandA
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:23 pm

I wish that the airlines offered same consistent quality of product and services everywhere they fly.

IMHO most airlines I have flown to India that featured a stop in between - including BA, QR, OZ, JL all have the same issue. The flights from US/Canada feature much newer and modern aircraft or at least the interiors are modern/newer but the final leg to Indian destinations have rather shabby aircraft/interiors.

As an example on my flights on BA. The last 744 service between SEA-LHR had much nicer interiors than the 744s they used on the LHR-DEL sector, same thing I have noticed regarding their more recent 777s. I am not a frequent flyer by any means but I seriously doubt that this was only due to pure coincidence since I can count at least 12 flights between SEA-DEL within last 7-8 years with a even mix of J and Y class of travel.

Another recent example is my OZ flight in Y earlier this year. The A333 from SEA-ICN was by no means state of the art as far as IFE or interior modernization is concerned but was still a heck of a lot better than the shabby interior and IFE on the A333 OZ used between ICN-DEL sector on both return trip flights.

However this difference in aircraft/cabin quality doesn't bother me as much since in my experience where the outdated interiors fall short on those flights, the crews on those flights are often noticeably more attentive, warm and courteous which more than make up for it.
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
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seabosdca
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:10 pm

Shocker! Out-of-work politician panders to the least informed segments of the public!

But, yes, any airline is going to put its older equipment on its lower-yielding routes. There is no return for EK in refurbishing these 773A when they will be out of the fleet within a couple of years, replaced by new-build, high-density-configured 77Ws. In the meantime, they use them on routes where the buik of the passengers are buying on three criteria: price, price, and price.
 
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enzo011
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:02 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Shocker! Out-of-work politician panders to the least informed segments of the public!

But, yes, any airline is going to put its older equipment on its lower-yielding routes. There is no return for EK in refurbishing these 773A when they will be out of the fleet within a couple of years, replaced by new-build, high-density-configured 77Ws. In the meantime, they use them on routes where the buik of the passengers are buying on three criteria: price, price, and price.



Wait, you say he is pandering to the least informed segment by stating the truth? He said the aircraft used on the route is inferior to the ones used to Europe, which you agree with. But he is wrong for stating facts? Bad politician....
 
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seabosdca
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:11 am

enzo011 wrote:
Wait, you say he is pandering to the least informed segment by stating the truth?


He is pandering by telling people the motive is discriminatory. The motive is purely financial and anyone with any knowledge of the airline business would understand that.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:50 am

seabosdca wrote:
Shocker! Out-of-work politician panders to the least informed segments of the public!

But, yes, any airline is going to put its older equipment on its lower-yielding routes. There is no return for EK in refurbishing these 773A when they will be out of the fleet within a couple of years, replaced by new-build, high-density-configured 77Ws. In the meantime, they use them on routes where the buik of the passengers are buying on three criteria: price, price, and price.


Tharoor isn't a run-of-the-mill politician. He is high profile and very popular (even influential) among the folk in India who can afford to fly J or F. There's probably a few hundred thousand of them among his millions of Twitter followers.

Unlike the average Indian politician, his views aren't going to be limited to his constituency; he has a national audience, a not insignificant chunk of which happens to have the kind of disposable income airlines are chasing.
 
mham001
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:09 am

blrsea wrote:
Shashi Tharoor never used the term "racism". It was used by the news site. I don't think Shashi Tharoor will throw around "racism" term just like that. The paper put that headline to grab eyeballs, as they tend to do.


That OP website is poison. Good luck trying to get back if you click on it.

He did sort of imply it by using the European routes as the example, rather than others from his own country. An interpretation was that EK serves the white European better than his own. And yes, Indians can jump on that racism bandwagon very, very quickly, I have seen it several times in the US, which is boggling because they and their children get special preference for many things based solely on their skin color.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:39 am

mham001 wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Shashi Tharoor never used the term "racism". It was used by the news site. I don't think Shashi Tharoor will throw around "racism" term just like that. The paper put that headline to grab eyeballs, as they tend to do.


That OP website is poison. Good luck trying to get back if you click on it.

He did sort of imply it by using the European routes as the example, rather than others from his own country. An interpretation was that EK serves the white European better than his own. And yes, Indians can jump on that racism bandwagon very, very quickly, I have seen it several times in the US, which is boggling because they and their children get special preference for many things based solely on their skin color.


That interpretation is your interpretation; no more and no less. Worth pointing out that Tharoor is the MP for TRV; if he uses EK to fly to Europe, his frame of reference is going to be TRV-DXB and DXB-EUR. Unless his destination is DXB, it's unlikely he'll ever fly EK ex-BOM or DEL; the man's got enough money to fly direct up front.

As for Indians and racism bandwagons, offering a sub-par product (relative to other offerings by the same company) and then claiming a victim mentality when someone points out its sub-par is a tad disingenuous.

Finally, worth pointing out that a lot of that TRV traffic is heading for the ME and I suspect the majority is O&D TRV-DXB. That's probably higher yield traffic than most of the sixth freedom traffic coming out of Europe. Granted the clientele is mostly migrant labour. Perhaps it's down to what the airline can get away with, with a certain type of client, rather than how much money it's making of that client.
 
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enzo011
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:05 am

seabosdca wrote:
He is pandering by telling people the motive is discriminatory. The motive is purely financial and anyone with any knowledge of the airline business would understand that.



I have not read his facebook post in full where the story gets their quoted from him from, but in the article he only states that the DXB-TRV flights get inferior aircraft as opposed to the DXB-Europe flights. He wants them to review this policy as he is concerned about the aircraft age and condition being used. He is not wrong in pointing out they use older aircraft on the route.

He may be wrong that the aircraft may be unsafe because it is older, but he wants it investigated by EK and reviewed if needed.
 
Jetstar315
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:27 am

This kind of non-sensical nonsense about 13 year old aircraft has been going on in India for years.
In late 1992 Goa Way Airline in India contracted with a premium South Pacific Airline to purchase 2 Fokker F27 Aircraft. Both had been operated by this airline for the entire time since they were built and were in excellent condition. One was delivered in Oct 92 and the next one cancelled in Mar 93 as the Indian Government suddenly announced, just five months after the purchase, that Indian airline companies were no longer permitted to purchase aircraft more than 25 years old!! It didn't matter that at the time they were operating some aircraft WAY more than 25 years old. India will always find a way to 'blame' someone else when something doesn't suit them and especially if they think they can make a claim on the manufacturer a la the B787s!! Get real India and stop this craziness!! I think India can hardly afford to have the worlds most modern fleet at give-away prices!
 
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enzo011
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:57 am

Jetstar315 wrote:
This kind of non-sensical nonsense about 13 year old aircraft has been going on in India for years.
In late 1992 Goa Way Airline in India contracted with a premium South Pacific Airline to purchase 2 Fokker F27 Aircraft. Both had been operated by this airline for the entire time since they were built and were in excellent condition. One was delivered in Oct 92 and the next one cancelled in Mar 93 as the Indian Government suddenly announced, just five months after the purchase, that Indian airline companies were no longer permitted to purchase aircraft more than 25 years old!! It didn't matter that at the time they were operating some aircraft WAY more than 25 years old. India will always find a way to 'blame' someone else when something doesn't suit them and especially if they think they can make a claim on the manufacturer a la the B787s!! Get real India and stop this craziness!! I think India can hardly afford to have the worlds most modern fleet at give-away prices!



What does the ability of Indian airlines to operate new aircraft have to do with other airlines sending their worst (in terms of interior and age) aircraft on routes to India? This is what the discussion is about. The answer is simple, uncomfortable but simple. The yield isn't there to send the newest aircraft to TRV. The question being asked is, is it unsafe to send these older aircraft?
 
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HGL
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:27 pm

Well they can certainly have some of the A380s that I have flown on. Issues have included: the ice-cooler in J being inop; the door under the washbasin in the aft F cabin was held in place with white masking tape; the docking station for the remote was also inop; and a hinge in a storage unit was broken. And that's just what the passenger sees. But perhaps the author/ politician won't have to wait too long. Are not the two-class A380s going to serve the Indian market?
Qui omnes despicit, omnibus displicit.
 
tonystan
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:25 pm

BandA wrote:

As an example on my flights on BA. The last 744 service between SEA-LHR had much nicer interiors than the 744s they used on the LHR-DEL sector, same thing I have noticed regarding their more recent 777s. I am not a frequent flyer by any means but I seriously doubt that this was only due to pure coincidence since I can count at least 12 flights between SEA-DEL within last 7-8 years with a even mix of J and Y class of travel


I'm going to stop you right there and tell you that yes it is merely coincidence. This is the problem when people have a limited experience of a company's operations, they will find fault and reason to think the worst wherever they can.

Now those 747s with the "much nicer interior" you speak of on the SEA are the very recently refurbished set of 18 which only since last September have entered service. They were given a new "super Hi J" configuration meaning they have a much higher number of business class seats. Obviously the fall back of this is that they have lost out in economy seating. These aircraft are simply put, not suitable for the India market where most of the volume is in economy class which is why it is not unusual to have the very high capacity (but low business class load) "older" jumbos on the India. Now the reason why these have not been refitted is because they are to be retired over the next few years and therefore the financing of such a significant refurb (30 or so airframes) would simply not happen.
Similarly with the 777-200 fleet. Only the older GE engined fleet have had a refurb to bring them up to standard simply because their cabins where hitting 20 years old and their IFE system was ancient and no longer supported from an engineering perspective. These aircraft are rarely sent to India as they don't have the legs for it and lack crew rest facilities. All the other 777s are yet to undergo a refurb but it is in planning.

Now let's also not forget that India has benefitted greatly from BA using some of its newest aircraft to the region. HYD and MAA are served daily by the 787-8. DEL and BOM have also both benefitted from being launch routes when the B777-300 first entered service (with new cabin product) and the B787-9 also. I also have no doubt that if IAG manages to get its hands in a few more A380s we will be seeing these on Indian routes as long as the Indian government don't interfere again.

This whole thing smacks of the Nigerian issue a number of years ago. It's a mere whinging from folk with a chip on their shoulder and lack any real understanding of enterprise and economics.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:29 pm

The day that India produces the highest yield per passenger mile, is the day that the finest aircraft(s) (sic) will be used to India. Not one day before, and not one day after.

And IIRC, India is not very high yielding. So the aircraft will not be very luxurious. Hope this helps.
 
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enilria
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:39 pm

One can argue if the planes used to India are as luxurious as planes used to other places (although I'd argue the price paid is a big factor in that and India is known for low yields), but this whole issue was brought up as it relates to safety. Luxury and safety are disconnected. This plane was no less safe than a luxurious plane and I can say that because the things that make a plane luxurious have nothing to do with safety. Also, I'm not sure you can make the argument that coach on an A380 is more luxurious than coach on a 777.
 
ojas
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:55 pm

A passenger apparently slapped a female cabin crew for not allowing him to take his hand luggage while evacuation. There were also another 3 to 4 of them who complained to the airport authorities for not allowing them to take their bags.

Indians in general have utter disregard for safety, and there is no two ways about it. No point in being politically correct by saying "generalisation" is bad and all the crap, just have to admit it.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
LH491
Posts: 20
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Re: EK Accused of Racism Putting B777 on India Routes

Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:49 am

Race has fluid definition because it's not real. Therefore, everyone has their own arbitrary definition of race or club. For instance, throughout my life I have found it impossible for any two people to agree on what white is. Everyone seems to have an enjoyable explanation that is also contradictory and somehow racist in its own way.

Anyways, I consider the subcontinentals to be white. So I fail to see how white middle easterners are racist against white Indians. Of course you might draw different lines. But what rules do you follow for people whose blood has mixed over the years and generations?

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