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speedbored
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Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:52 am

Looks like there might have been some "little brown envelopes" being passed on to "consultants":
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37005459

Guess we'll have to wait for the full details to come out but it won't be too good for Airbus if they lose access to export credits.
Last edited by speedbored on Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:58 am

The use of overseas agents is always a bone of contention in company due diligence activities. When does the value of an agent stop being a 'value' and start being a method of corrupt payments to an unrelated third party?
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Andy33
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:17 am

Given the track record of the Serious Fraud Office, even if corruption was widespread, the likelihood of them finding it and proving it to the satisfaction of any court is rather low. It doesn't have the alternative name of the Serious Farce Office for nothing.
 
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speedbored
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:27 am

Andy33 wrote:
Given the track record of the Serious Fraud Office, even if corruption was widespread, the likelihood of them finding it and proving it to the satisfaction of any court is rather low. It doesn't have the alternative name of the Serious Farce Office for nothing.

True, we in the UK definitely lead the world when it comes to incompetence in public office, but it's interesting that both Germany and France have also suspended export credits.
 
dendrobatid
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:50 am

Andy33 wrote:
Given the track record of the Serious Fraud Office, even if corruption was widespread, the likelihood of them finding it and proving it to the satisfaction of any court is rather low. It doesn't have the alternative name of the Serious Farce Office for nothing.


Andy

Sounds like you, like me, will at least expect Lord Gnome to be watching :-)

continued, page 94

Mick Bajcar

(and you really have to be British to get what I mean don't you ?)
 
blueflyer
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:12 am

Of note is that Airbus itself triggered the investigation when it handed over to the SFO documents from an internal audit. I'm sure Airbus didn't think a formal investigation would result, however.

Global companies are sometimes caught between a rock and a hard place. What do you do when customers in parts of the world such as Asia or Africa demand that agents be used (not that their use per say is illegal)? Just ask Rolls Royce.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:33 am

Working in Asia, this is a constant problem and Their expenses are the biggest issues.

Good to see that Airbus being proactive in handing over the data to the SFO.

All my agent contracts have gone through legal and audit for approval for the very purpose or not ending up on the wrong side of correct and percieved correct.

Perhaps Lord Gnome can solve it quicker!!
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
billreid
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:29 am

LOL. Why would a superior product like Airbus need Bribes etcetera to win commercial sales?
Leahy hasn't been doing his job, as head of sales he should be in control not using shakey third parties to win sales through under the table tactics. But like every other used-car salesman his answer will be Boeing does it too. LOL.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:36 pm

billreid wrote:
LOL. Why would a superior product like Airbus need Bribes etcetera to win commercial sales?
Leahy hasn't been doing his job, as head of sales he should be in control not using shakey third parties to win sales through under the table tactics. But like every other used-car salesman his answer will be Boeing does it too. LOL.


Unfortunately, in some parts of the World its the usual way of doing business. If you want to speak to the Minister for Civil Aviation you have to book the appointment via his brother in law who will invoice you for an "administration fee" One of the biggest examples of all time was a payment to Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands (The Queens husband) to ensure that they bought Lockheed Starfighters instead of Mirages.
Western Governments have generally cleaned up their procurement procedures, but you can be sure that it still goes on elsewhere.

Sometimes these 3rd parties do provide a legitimate service and run the selection procedure, sometimes not. In a slightly different context think of businesses who get agencies to search out and procure new staff. Generally thats considered to be OK, when however they charge their services to the applicants rather than the employer we become suspicious.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:09 pm

Bongodog1964 wrote:
billreid wrote:
LOL. Why would a superior product like Airbus need Bribes etcetera to win commercial sales?
Leahy hasn't been doing his job, as head of sales he should be in control not using shakey third parties to win sales through under the table tactics. But like every other used-car salesman his answer will be Boeing does it too. LOL.


Unfortunately, in some parts of the World its the usual way of doing business. If you want to speak to the Minister for Civil Aviation you have to book the appointment via his brother in law who will invoice you for an "administration fee" One of the biggest examples of all time was a payment to Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands (The Queens husband) to ensure that they bought Lockheed Starfighters instead of Mirages.
Western Governments have generally cleaned up their procurement procedures, but you can be sure that it still goes on elsewhere.


Absolutely right.

I distinctly remember one of these 3rd world countries with little experience of real democracy getting involved in a debacle leasing/buying KC-767 tankers a while back. I think it ended up with several folks from Boeing doing jail time.
 
alyusuph
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:47 am

I was wondering how this will have an impact to the aircraft deal with Iran
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:29 am

alyusuph wrote:
I was wondering how this will have an impact to the aircraft deal with Iran


Not? Business will just continue.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:22 pm

I'm sure that Lord Gnome would "eye" up the problem and then have a report drawn up by his staff.

No doubt Philipa Space would be lead on the report, which would only start on Page 5, be 2 pages long ..... and then continue ad nauseam from page 94!

The report will be delivered, as is required these days, to Mornington Crescent! It will then have a UK government review (to receive its HP Sauce and final castration), before being released to The City! Double jeopardises all round!

After that, it's anyone's guess! Oddballs? Coleman balls? We should be told!
 
sxf24
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:27 pm

The word is that the SFO criminal investigation is related to the A330 sale to Saudia Arabia. The SFO takes forever and this is not expected to materially impact Airbus in the near term.
 
jumpjets
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:10 pm

Sounds like you, like me, will at least expect Lord Gnome to be watching :-)

continued, page 94

I expect Sid and Doris Bonkers will be keeping a close eye on this one [maybe I am showing my age now].
 
jumpjets
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:15 pm

sxf24 wrote:
The word is that the SFO criminal investigation is related to the A330 sale to Saudia Arabia. The SFO takes forever and this is not expected to materially impact Airbus in the near term.


Didn't the SFO also investigate a BAE sale of fighter jets to Saudi Arabia - I can't recall the outcome of that one - it seems there may be a bit of a pattern emerging.
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:19 pm

jumpjets wrote:
Sounds like you, like me, will at least expect Lord Gnome to be watching :-)

continued, page 94

I expect Sid and Doris Bonkers will be keeping a close eye on this one [maybe I am showing my age now].


Probably find that someone was "tired and emotional" or indulging in "Ugandan relations"
 
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Revelation
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:01 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
I distinctly remember one of these 3rd world countries with little experience of real democracy getting involved in a debacle leasing/buying KC-767 tankers a while back. I think it ended up with several folks from Boeing doing jail time.


Yep, what's memorable is their asses ended up in jail. Let's see how this one ends. I'm not particularly optimistic here or elsewhere because it seems these days the fix is in for the 1%ers.
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ojjunior
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:19 pm

Can someone please tell those investigators that Airbus isn't the only one?

CEO unexpected change, forced retirement plan for employees announced this week, bribery accusation for aircraft sales overseas, US$ 150 million in losses in 3 months and so on...

Portuguese only:
http://exame.abril.com.br/negocios/noti ... ada-de-ceo
http://www.valor.com.br/empresas/466536 ... raer-em-ny
 
Amiga500
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:44 pm

Revelation wrote:
Yep, what's memorable is their asses ended up in jail. Let's see how this one ends. I'm not particularly optimistic here or elsewhere because it seems these days the fix is in for the 1%ers.


Agreed 100%.

I think its probably an area where we could learn from the Chinese.

If a few of the corrupt bstarts were lined up against a brick wall it might act as a real deterrent to their insidious ways [I would love for such laws to apply to executive officers that sink companies for short term gains and of course, the pond scum on Wall Street/in London City/etc etc].
 
dendrobatid
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Re: Serious Fraud Office Investigating Airbus

Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:14 pm

Jumpjets and Sassiciai and Bongodog1964

You need to get out more :-)

Mick Bajcar (I am pretty old too - and a long-time reader)

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