Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
KTPAFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:08 pm

Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:18 pm

Hello A.net,

I was wondering about what approaches enter the border/territory of arrival just before final on the landing approach. Off the top of my head, I can think of PHL and PDX. What are some other examples, including others around the world, near Int'l borders? All contributations appreciated, thank you.
 
dubaiamman243
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:21 pm

Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia maybe?
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
BiggerJetsPlz
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:34 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:22 pm

Tijuana International, when landing on runway 09, I would guess.
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:24 pm

Most planes approach SIN from Malaysia or Indonesia air space so almost the entire approach is over another country.
 
sw733
Posts: 5881
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:25 pm

Basel - depending on the runway, your final may be over Germany, France, or Switzerland.
 
mcogator
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:26 pm

AMM from Israel?
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2519
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:29 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
PHL


PHL is no where near the Canadian border.
 
User avatar
jmw99ttu
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:18 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:40 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
PHL


PHL is no where near the Canadian border.


I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1390
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:58 pm

SFF (Felt's Field in Spokane, WA) has an approach that crosses into Idaho. Bellingham has one that crosses over into Canada and I think Victoria, BC has the ILS to 27 that might creep into US airspace.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
Kilopond
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:58 pm

From any origin, approaches to Heringsdorf (HDF/EDAH) are regularly performed through FIR WARSAW.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:06 pm

Geneva. Though there the entire approach is over France and you cross the border just before you cross the threshold.
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:12 pm

What about Gibraltar. A border over the water but a diplomatic problem!
 
nickllhill
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:19 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:14 pm

GIB used to be fun precisely because one could not go into Spanish airspace landing or taking off. This led to some nice sharp turns and fun views.

The situation is slightly better now. I do believe one goes briefly into Spanish airspace but turn left to avoid overflying Algeciras.
 
flightsimer
Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:21 pm

Acey559 wrote:
SFF (Felt's Field in Spokane, WA) has an approach that crosses into Idaho. Bellingham has one that crosses over into Canada and I think Victoria, BC has the ILS to 27 that might creep into US airspace.

Bellingham actually is under Victoria Terminal airspace. And Vancouver actually owns the airspace over the the US' NW portion of the Puget sound to the west of Bellingham. Really weird
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:34 pm

jmw99ttu wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
PHL


PHL is no where near the Canadian border.


I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.
Now you're flying smart
 
qcpilotxf
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:10 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:48 pm

flyDTW1992 wrote:
jmw99ttu wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

PHL is no where near the Canadian border.


I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.


And on that note id like to add that im pretty sure Cleveland (Detroit) owns the airspace over Windsor
 
WN732
Posts: 776
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:54 pm

RWY 4 at ELP will take you about a few miles over Juarez, Mexico.
 
User avatar
vhqpa
Posts: 1703
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:56 pm

On the top of my head the RWY 22L/R and RWY 30 at CPH have approaches which start at least on the FIR boundary of Sweden.

For state boundaries in Australia the obvious one is CBR where the approaches cross over NSW/ACT border.

Then there is OOL where you cross the QLD/NSW border not on approach but as you're decelerating down the runway.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
zrs70
Posts: 3757
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:21 pm

Flights landing at CVG from the south fly over Ohio before touching down in Kentucky.
20 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2020
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1631
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:26 pm

Having flown it many times, approaches and take-offs at Geilenkirchen NATO Air Base in Germany, right on the Dutch border certainly do.

Not commercial but GKE - ETNG certainly fits the bill.

Several Texas airports on the Rio Grande would seem to fit the bill, though.

Tireste Airport, in NE Italia also fits the bill. TRS goes east over Slovenia.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7280
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:29 pm

MEM is so close to the Mississippi state line that the approach lights for the 36s actually cross into MS.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
33lspotter
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:37 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:38 pm

The approach to CLT's Runway 5 starts in SC.
 
User avatar
xaapb
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:41 pm

I belive the approach into runway 31 at Brownsville and not sure if the approach into runway 32 at McAllen is over Mexican airspace.
Jorge Meneses
 
ryan78
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:02 am

Here's what I can think of. RWY10L approach into IAG, Niagara Falls International Airport is about 5km away from the Canada/US border. Depending on A/C type (ie. larger jets that require a longer then 5km final) you would pass directly across the border. Arica, Chile (ARI) RWY 20 threshold is about 3km from the border of Peru, approach would take you right over it. Another one I can think of is Chetumal (CTM) it sits roughly 1km from the border of Mexico & Belize however the runway runs parallel with the border. Also Ushuaia, Argentina (USH) sits on the shore of the body of water that separates Argentina & Chile however that runway also runs parallel to the official border.

And a weird one is Malilla Airport, Spain (MLN). It is technically considered an enclave of Spain that sits on the coast of Morocco, the threshold to RWY 33 is a mere 600 Meters (+/-) from the identified border between the two countries, probably can't get much closer than that. Interesting topic by the way!
Last edited by ryan78 on Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:09 am

I remember a couple of times either going or coming into El Paso going over Juarez. Most of the time, no.
 
RogerMurdock
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:13 am

DC when flying the river visual into DCA (the airport is located in VA). The whole width of the Potomac River belongs to DC (and Maryland North and South of DC's borders).
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2633
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:13 am

I think ATQ (Amritsar) airport in India is very close to the border with Pakistan......Indian carriers taking off from ATQ make extra efforts to ensure that they remain in Indian airpspace during approach/departure.....
 
User avatar
KTPAFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:08 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:17 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
flyDTW1992 wrote:
jmw99ttu wrote:

I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.


And on that note id like to add that im pretty sure Cleveland (Detroit) owns the airspace over Windsor


Interesting, that must be a first, I've never a heard of a situation like this anywhere else. In retrospect, I don't know how I forgot about DTW- First time I flew into DTW, the pilot even made a joke that if you look on the right hand side of the aircraft, you'll see Canada, and if you look even further, you'll see the Eiffel Tower, lol. I guess DCA also counts if we're talking state boundaries.
 
User avatar
KTPAFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:08 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:23 am

Gr8Circle wrote:
I think ATQ (Amritsar) airport in India is very close to the border with Pakistan......Indian carriers taking off from ATQ make extra efforts to ensure that they remain in Indian airpspace during approach/departure.....


This would only make sense when flying eastbound, because when flying westbound, you'd just be burning extra fuel.
 
kstse
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:29 am

Don't know how close it is but would ICN count when approaching from the NW?
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 1990
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:33 am

Tijuana, Mexico. Btw Google maps shows the airport perimeter ending where the borders are. Is there some sort of special guarding at the fence, because otherwise it would seem pretty easy to get past to the other end. At least much easier than it would be otherwise.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5181
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:36 am

I saw on a Just Planes cockpit video once that the Southbound arrivals into SEL have to be routed around North Korean airspace.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3460
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:51 am

Abbotsford International Airport (YXX) is only a few miles from the border with the US. Most flights heading east from Abbotsford, specially the WestJet ones to Calgary and Edmonton first make a quick detour into US air space before popping back into Canadian air space before heading east.

I believe WestJet has a special RNP approach for YXX that only they can use; this approach apparently saves a lot of time and fuel off the normal approach to YXX.
Last edited by ThePointblank on Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3373
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:54 am

KTPAFlyer wrote:
qcpilotxf wrote:
flyDTW1992 wrote:
But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.


And on that note id like to add that im pretty sure Cleveland (Detroit) owns the airspace over Windsor


Interesting, that must be a first, I've never a heard of a situation like this anywhere else. In retrospect, I don't know how I forgot about DTW- First time I flew into DTW, the pilot even made a joke that if you look on the right hand side of the aircraft, you'll see Canada, and if you look even further, you'll see the Eiffel Tower, lol. I guess DCA also counts if we're talking state boundaries.


The rarely used ILS 27R/L in DTW is over Canada partially.
From my cold, dead hands
 
TasosANG
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:03 am

Kinsahsa, Ngilli international, on the final over Congo Brazzaville
:P
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:38 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Geneva. Though there the entire approach is over France and you cross the border just before you cross the threshold.


Approaching runway 05 at GVA, you are over Switzerland for at least 12 km before crossing the threshold. It's about the same for runway 23.
 
Beatyair
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:46 am

Do the plane in to San Diego get close to the border?
 
User avatar
Adipasquale
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:39 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:53 am

Approaches to RWYs 23 and 14 at my hometown BUF pass over Canada.
Last edited by Adipasquale on Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 318 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77L 77W
 
CHSNYC
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:05 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:57 am

HPN — Westchester County Airport in New York — has an approach over Connecticut. Residents' refusal to cut trees on the CT side of the border forced the airport to cut 1,300 feet off its runway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/nyreg ... rport.html
 
HAWKXP
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:03 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:39 am

State borders? Who cares, Even international, when under positive control; fly the aircraft and let ATC do their job. Disclaimer: I have never flown near North Korea.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5181
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:39 am

Beatyair wrote:
Do the plane in to San Diego get close to the border?


The MSP-SAN flight I was on last Fall brought us in from the Northeast, then pretty much straight in from the East, not terribly close to Mexico.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
MrBuzzcut
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:25 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:44 am

The end of 4/22 (using an extended centerline on Google Maps) at ELP is 3.95 miles out from the Mexican border. Usually winds favor 22 so not a big deal for approaches, but you make a pretty quick left turn if making a 22 departure, presumably to stay within US airspace. CJS, on the other side of the river, has an extended centerline distance from the threshold of RWY 21 to the border of 5.2 miles, so arrivals into Juarez most days aren't joining the final approach very far out either.

I'd actually like to hear from somebody that works around places like that--how does it work if a commercial flight needs to or accidentally strays a little over the line when the runway is that close to the border? I assume both sides ATC are tracking everything so they know it's an expected commercial flight, but I imagine it would get a little weird with overflight fees (for 2 minutes at most), etc.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8048
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:26 am

Many arrivals into DTW approach over southern Ontario (Canada). The SIPCA TWO STAR is used by almost all arrivals into DTW from NYC airports, the Northeast US, and Trans-Atlantic arrivals from Europe. The arrival has them coming in from the east a bit south of London, Ontario and then coming across Lake St. Clair before vectoring into the pattern depending on a northern or southerly flow.

Many of the departures out of DTW cross over southern Ontario for all Trans-Atlantics, Northeast, and even many of the flights headed to the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast before making a southeastern turn across Lake Erie toward Cleveland.
 
atal17
Posts: 447
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:40 am

I can think of Agartala in India, with one of its approaches close to the Bangladeshi border.
 
bw50505
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:53 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:14 am

OA940 wrote:
Tijuana, Mexico. Btw Google maps shows the airport perimeter ending where the borders are. Is there some sort of special guarding at the fence, because otherwise it would seem pretty easy to get past to the other end. At least much easier than it would be otherwise.


No, there is no special border guarding at the fence. If an aircraft is going to overrun, it will overrun and eventually hit terrain, as there are hills in the area past Rwy 27 on the US side.

Departing aircraft from TIJ operating domestic flights, when taking off west towards the ocean, make an immediate left turn after takeoff to stay on the Mexican side. They then may keep turning or travel due west just south of the border before turning south and continuing into Mexico. Great views of this can be seen from both sides of the border. When landing on Rwy 9 they fly right over the US side of the border and don't seem to have too much of an impact on any San Diego airports, with the exception of NOLF I.B.

On another note, SDM, the US airport less than a mile due north of TIJ, rarely has planes departing or landing over Mexico unless they are traveling to/from Mexico. SDM is the customs entrance for private aircraft to California from Mexico.
 
User avatar
AirIndia
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 2:43 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:17 am

Approaches into DXB over the desert (towards 30L & 30R) descent starts over Omani airspace.

DXB-SEA on EK, having done many times, descent usually begins in BC airspace.
 
TripleA
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:31 am

MrBuzzcut wrote:
The end of 4/22 (using an extended centerline on Google Maps) at ELP is 3.95 miles out from the Mexican border. Usually winds favor 22 so not a big deal for approaches, but you make a pretty quick left turn if making a 22 departure, presumably to stay within US airspace. CJS, on the other side of the river, has an extended centerline distance from the threshold of RWY 21 to the border of 5.2 miles, so arrivals into Juarez most days aren't joining the final approach very far out either.

I'd actually like to hear from somebody that works around places like that--how does it work if a commercial flight needs to or accidentally strays a little over the line when the runway is that close to the border? I assume both sides ATC are tracking everything so they know it's an expected commercial flight, but I imagine it would get a little weird with overflight fees (for 2 minutes at most), etc.


Image

I believe this picture shows a Southwest approaching ELP over Mexico. At leas that's what it looks like. Here's a link to it if it doesn't show up:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Southwes ... 4/347751/L
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:43 am

kstse wrote:
Don't know how close it is but would ICN count when approaching from the NW?


All the approaches and departures for obvious reasons do not cross the border with North Korea.
 
jfrworld
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:21 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:48 am

ZRH. When landing from the north, you perform a decent and turn to final just inside Swiss / German border
 
User avatar
bwest
Posts: 1134
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:54 am

Re: Airports with approaches crossing borders on final

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:51 am

TasosANG wrote:
Kinsahsa, Ngilli international, on the final over Congo Brazzaville

The runways at both N'djili and N'dolo are oriented along the Congo stream, planes landing and taking off don't fly over Brazzaville

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos