Hello A.net,

I was wondering about what approaches enter the border/territory of arrival just before final on the landing approach. Off the top of my head, I can think of PHL and PDX. What are some other examples, including others around the world, near Int'l borders? All contributations appreciated, thank you.

Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia maybe?

Tijuana International, when landing on runway 09, I would guess.

Most planes approach SIN from Malaysia or Indonesia air space so almost the entire approach is over another country.

Basel - depending on the runway, your final may be over Germany, France, or Switzerland.

AMM from Israel?

INFINITI329 wrote:

KTPAFlyer wrote:

PHL

PHL is no where near the Canadian border.

I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

SFF (Felt's Field in Spokane, WA) has an approach that crosses into Idaho. Bellingham has one that crosses over into Canada and I think Victoria, BC has the ILS to 27 that might creep into US airspace.

From any origin, approaches to Heringsdorf (HDF/EDAH) are regularly performed through FIR WARSAW.

Geneva. Though there the entire approach is over France and you cross the border just before you cross the threshold.

What about Gibraltar. A border over the water but a diplomatic problem!

GIB used to be fun precisely because one could not go into Spanish airspace landing or taking off. This led to some nice sharp turns and fun views.

The situation is slightly better now. I do believe one goes briefly into Spanish airspace but turn left to avoid overflying Algeciras.

Acey559 wrote:

SFF (Felt's Field in Spokane, WA) has an approach that crosses into Idaho. Bellingham has one that crosses over into Canada and I think Victoria, BC has the ILS to 27 that might creep into US airspace.

Bellingham actually is under Victoria Terminal airspace. And Vancouver actually owns the airspace over the the US' NW portion of the Puget sound to the west of Bellingham. Really weird

jmw99ttu wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

KTPAFlyer wrote:

PHL

PHL is no where near the Canadian border.

I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.

flyDTW1992 wrote:

jmw99ttu wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

PHL is no where near the Canadian border.

I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.

And on that note id like to add that im pretty sure Cleveland (Detroit) owns the airspace over Windsor

RWY 4 at ELP will take you about a few miles over Juarez, Mexico.

On the top of my head the RWY 22L/R and RWY 30 at CPH have approaches which start at least on the FIR boundary of Sweden.

For state boundaries in Australia the obvious one is CBR where the approaches cross over NSW/ACT border.

Then there is OOL where you cross the QLD/NSW border not on approach but as you're decelerating down the runway.

Flights landing at CVG from the south fly over Ohio before touching down in Kentucky.

Having flown it many times, approaches and take-offs at Geilenkirchen NATO Air Base in Germany, right on the Dutch border certainly do.

Not commercial but GKE - ETNG certainly fits the bill.

Several Texas airports on the Rio Grande would seem to fit the bill, though.

Tireste Airport, in NE Italia also fits the bill. TRS goes east over Slovenia.

MEM is so close to the Mississippi state line that the approach lights for the 36s actually cross into MS.

The approach to CLT's Runway 5 starts in SC.

I belive the approach into runway 31 at Brownsville and not sure if the approach into runway 32 at McAllen is over Mexican airspace.

Here's what I can think of. RWY10L approach into IAG, Niagara Falls International Airport is about 5km away from the Canada/US border. Depending on A/C type (ie. larger jets that require a longer then 5km final) you would pass directly across the border. Arica, Chile (ARI) RWY 20 threshold is about 3km from the border of Peru, approach would take you right over it. Another one I can think of is Chetumal (CTM) it sits roughly 1km from the border of Mexico & Belize however the runway runs parallel with the border. Also Ushuaia, Argentina (USH) sits on the shore of the body of water that separates Argentina & Chile however that runway also runs parallel to the official border.

And a weird one is Malilla Airport, Spain (MLN). It is technically considered an enclave of Spain that sits on the coast of Morocco, the threshold to RWY 33 is a mere 600 Meters (+/-) from the identified border between the two countries, probably can't get much closer than that. Interesting topic by the way!

I remember a couple of times either going or coming into El Paso going over Juarez. Most of the time, no.

DC when flying the river visual into DCA (the airport is located in VA). The whole width of the Potomac River belongs to DC (and Maryland North and South of DC's borders).

I think ATQ (Amritsar) airport in India is very close to the border with Pakistan......Indian carriers taking off from ATQ make extra efforts to ensure that they remain in Indian airpspace during approach/departure.....

qcpilotxf wrote:

flyDTW1992 wrote:

jmw99ttu wrote:

I think the OP was referring to state borders, not int'l boarders. PHL and PDX are both on rivers that are also state lines.

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.

And on that note id like to add that im pretty sure Cleveland (Detroit) owns the airspace over Windsor

Interesting, that must be a first, I've never a heard of a situation like this anywhere else. In retrospect, I don't know how I forgot about DTW- First time I flew into DTW, the pilot even made a joke that if you look on the right hand side of the aircraft, you'll see Canada, and if you look even further, you'll see the Eiffel Tower, lol. I guess DCA also counts if we're talking state boundaries.

Gr8Circle wrote:

I think ATQ (Amritsar) airport in India is very close to the border with Pakistan......Indian carriers taking off from ATQ make extra efforts to ensure that they remain in Indian airpspace during approach/departure.....

This would only make sense when flying eastbound, because when flying westbound, you'd just be burning extra fuel.

Don't know how close it is but would ICN count when approaching from the NW?

Tijuana, Mexico. Btw Google maps shows the airport perimeter ending where the borders are. Is there some sort of special guarding at the fence, because otherwise it would seem pretty easy to get past to the other end. At least much easier than it would be otherwise.

I saw on a Just Planes cockpit video once that the Southbound arrivals into SEL have to be routed around North Korean airspace.

Abbotsford International Airport (YXX) is only a few miles from the border with the US. Most flights heading east from Abbotsford, specially the WestJet ones to Calgary and Edmonton first make a quick detour into US air space before popping back into Canadian air space before heading east.

I believe WestJet has a special RNP approach for YXX that only they can use; this approach apparently saves a lot of time and fuel off the normal approach to YXX.

KTPAFlyer wrote:

qcpilotxf wrote:

flyDTW1992 wrote:

But why? State borders are completely inconsequential when it comes to aviation. As far as national borders go, DTW arrivals and departures frequently pass over Canada.

And on that note id like to add that im pretty sure Cleveland (Detroit) owns the airspace over Windsor

Interesting, that must be a first, I've never a heard of a situation like this anywhere else. In retrospect, I don't know how I forgot about DTW- First time I flew into DTW, the pilot even made a joke that if you look on the right hand side of the aircraft, you'll see Canada, and if you look even further, you'll see the Eiffel Tower, lol. I guess DCA also counts if we're talking state boundaries.

The rarely used ILS 27R/L in DTW is over Canada partially.

Kinsahsa, Ngilli international, on the final over Congo Brazzaville

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:

Geneva. Though there the entire approach is over France and you cross the border just before you cross the threshold.

Approaching runway 05 at GVA, you are over Switzerland for at least 12 km before crossing the threshold. It's about the same for runway 23.

Do the plane in to San Diego get close to the border?

Approaches to RWYs 23 and 14 at my hometown BUF pass over Canada.

HPN — Westchester County Airport in New York — has an approach over Connecticut. Residents' refusal to cut trees on the CT side of the border forced the airport to cut 1,300 feet off its runway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/nyreg ... rport.html

State borders? Who cares, Even international, when under positive control; fly the aircraft and let ATC do their job. Disclaimer: I have never flown near North Korea.

Beatyair wrote:

Do the plane in to San Diego get close to the border?

The MSP-SAN flight I was on last Fall brought us in from the Northeast, then pretty much straight in from the East, not terribly close to Mexico.

The end of 4/22 (using an extended centerline on Google Maps) at ELP is 3.95 miles out from the Mexican border. Usually winds favor 22 so not a big deal for approaches, but you make a pretty quick left turn if making a 22 departure, presumably to stay within US airspace. CJS, on the other side of the river, has an extended centerline distance from the threshold of RWY 21 to the border of 5.2 miles, so arrivals into Juarez most days aren't joining the final approach very far out either.

I'd actually like to hear from somebody that works around places like that--how does it work if a commercial flight needs to or accidentally strays a little over the line when the runway is that close to the border? I assume both sides ATC are tracking everything so they know it's an expected commercial flight, but I imagine it would get a little weird with overflight fees (for 2 minutes at most), etc.

Many arrivals into DTW approach over southern Ontario (Canada). The SIPCA TWO STAR is used by almost all arrivals into DTW from NYC airports, the Northeast US, and Trans-Atlantic arrivals from Europe. The arrival has them coming in from the east a bit south of London, Ontario and then coming across Lake St. Clair before vectoring into the pattern depending on a northern or southerly flow.

Many of the departures out of DTW cross over southern Ontario for all Trans-Atlantics, Northeast, and even many of the flights headed to the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast before making a southeastern turn across Lake Erie toward Cleveland.

I can think of Agartala in India, with one of its approaches close to the Bangladeshi border.

OA940 wrote:

Tijuana, Mexico. Btw Google maps shows the airport perimeter ending where the borders are. Is there some sort of special guarding at the fence, because otherwise it would seem pretty easy to get past to the other end. At least much easier than it would be otherwise.

No, there is no special border guarding at the fence. If an aircraft is going to overrun, it will overrun and eventually hit terrain, as there are hills in the area past Rwy 27 on the US side.

Departing aircraft from TIJ operating domestic flights, when taking off west towards the ocean, make an immediate left turn after takeoff to stay on the Mexican side. They then may keep turning or travel due west just south of the border before turning south and continuing into Mexico. Great views of this can be seen from both sides of the border. When landing on Rwy 9 they fly right over the US side of the border and don't seem to have too much of an impact on any San Diego airports, with the exception of NOLF I.B.

On another note, SDM, the US airport less than a mile due north of TIJ, rarely has planes departing or landing over Mexico unless they are traveling to/from Mexico. SDM is the customs entrance for private aircraft to California from Mexico.

Approaches into DXB over the desert (towards 30L & 30R) descent starts over Omani airspace.

DXB-SEA on EK, having done many times, descent usually begins in BC airspace.

MrBuzzcut wrote:

The end of 4/22 (using an extended centerline on Google Maps) at ELP is 3.95 miles out from the Mexican border. Usually winds favor 22 so not a big deal for approaches, but you make a pretty quick left turn if making a 22 departure, presumably to stay within US airspace. CJS, on the other side of the river, has an extended centerline distance from the threshold of RWY 21 to the border of 5.2 miles, so arrivals into Juarez most days aren't joining the final approach very far out either.

I'd actually like to hear from somebody that works around places like that--how does it work if a commercial flight needs to or accidentally strays a little over the line when the runway is that close to the border? I assume both sides ATC are tracking everything so they know it's an expected commercial flight, but I imagine it would get a little weird with overflight fees (for 2 minutes at most), etc.

I believe this picture shows a Southwest approaching ELP over Mexico. At leas that's what it looks like. Here's a link to it if it doesn't show up:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Southwes ... 4/347751/L

kstse wrote:

Don't know how close it is but would ICN count when approaching from the NW?

All the approaches and departures for obvious reasons do not cross the border with North Korea.

ZRH. When landing from the north, you perform a decent and turn to final just inside Swiss / German border

TasosANG wrote:

Kinsahsa, Ngilli international, on the final over Congo Brazzaville

The runways at both N'djili and N'dolo are oriented along the Congo stream, planes landing and taking off don't fly over Brazzaville