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SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:19 am
by oldannyboy
Dear Friends,

I am looking for information on three types that were operated by SAS in the past.. Years of operation, routes, and any more information you may have to add..
The types in question are:
1) The A300: I remember it was operated briefly, never in the 'new' 1980s livery, and that I believe they ended up at Scanair (and were perhaps PW- powered?)
2) the 747: I think SAS was one of the original operators, but were later exchanged for DC-10s because they were too big?
3) Finally the DC-8: I remember they lasted for a long time, and I remember seeing the -62 and -63 in the new livery. Were they operated also intra-Europe? What configurations were they operated in? Last flights?? And... why were they never upgraded to super -70s?

Many thanks for any info you can come up with.
Danny

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:24 am
by n729pa
SAS were a launch customer for the 747, their logo features on N7470. I think from memory line number 114 was their first one. In later years they also had No. 500 too among their fleet.

The DC8s I remember seeing coming into LHR around 84-85 in the new livery, weekday evenings around 4pm from I think from CPH

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:24 pm
by eta unknown
A300's were short lived- far too big for any of SK's European flights- they could never fill them. Yes they were then transferred to Scanair.
747's were not traded for DC-10's, they were simply sold off. Like many airlines, they were ordered for prestige and for massive predicted passenger increases that never materialized due to world events. I believe there was one infamous 747 in the fleet that was underpowered and later caused considerable strife for it's new operator when converted to a freighter.

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:09 pm
by JetBuddy
The DC-8s were never upgraded to Super 70s versions. But they were transfered to Scanair in the mid/late 80s and flew at least until '89 on typical sun & fun routes from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean.

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:43 pm
by 747classic
I found some detailed info in my 747 files about the first two SAS B747-283B aircraft: (courtesy R Dijkstra, retired 747 captain, a former KLM colleague)

20120 Boeing 747-283B line number 114
Basic number R1004 / Variable number RA701

SE-DDL 1970-12-18 Roll out
1971-02-06 First Flight
1971-02-22 SAS, ‘Huge Viking’ / Delivery
1971-03-11 Arrived Copenhagen Kastrup
1978-02-07 Seen Amsterdam with stickers ‘Operated by KLM Flight’
1981-11 Renamed ‘Bjarne Viking
1982-09-14 Last service New York JFK-Copenhagen / TT 41.986 hours and 8.783 landings
1982-09-15 Leased Scanair
1982-09-16 In service Stockholm ARN-Heraklion
1982-11-04 Roll out Amsterdam in Scanair color scheme
1983-10-09 Last service Bangkok-Copenhagen / Returned
1983-10-10 CoR cancelled
LN-AET 1983-10-10 Partnership K/S Airinvest / Christiana Bank OG Kreditkasse / Leased SAS (for four years),
‘Bjarne Viking’
1983-10-11 In service Copenhagen-Bangkok-Singapore
1985-04-24 Copenhagen Kastrup-Amsterdam as KL3001, as KL641 to New York John F. Kennedy
International
1985-05-01 Copenhagen Kastrup-Amsterdam as SK9200, as KL621 to Atlanta Hartsfield
1985-05-02 Arrived Amsterdam as KL622, as KL1732 to Copenhagen Kastrup
1985-07-13 Last service New York John F. Kennedy-Copenhagen
1985-07-27 Returned to K/S Air Invest / Leased Gulf Air
1985-07-29 In service Bahrain-Bangkok-Manila
1985-08-17 Copenhagen Kastrup-Amsterdam as KL3001, as KL691 to Toronto Lester B. Pearson
International
1985-08-18 Arrived Amsterdam as KL692, returned as KL3001
1987-09-30 Returned by Gulf Air / Bahrain-Copenhagen, total time 57286 hours, 12353 cycles
1987-10-01 Handed over K/S Air Invest
Guiness Peat
1987-10-12 Ferried Copenhagen-London Heathrow all white for D-check by British Airways
1987-11-13 Arrived Brussels in full Gulf Air color scheme
F-GHBM 1987-11-25 Leased to Minerve
1987-11-26 At Brussels in full Minerve color scheme
1987-11-30 Departed Brussels
1988-04-29 Credit National Bank / Leased Minerve (AOM French Airlines)
1992-04-22 Returned Credit National Bank
1992-06-18 Seen stored at Paris Orly in full Minerve color scheme
1993-02-22 CoR cancelled
N221MP 1993-02-22 Registered Aircraft Instrument & Radio Company, Wichita, KS
1993-02-27 Paris Orly-Kansas City Topoka with call sign Dallas 21, still in ex Minerve color scheme,
very dirty fuselage
1994-07-01 Ferried Topeka-San Antonio
1994-07 Dismantled San Antonio
1994-08 Registration cancelled
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

20121 Boeing 747-283B line number 167
Basic number R1030 / Variable number RA702

(OY-KFA) SAS, registration not taken up
OY-KHA 1971-10-04 Roll out
1971-10-28 First flight
1971-11-12 SAS, ‘Ivar Viking’ / Delivery
1971-11-20 Arrived Copenhagen Kastrup
1982-01-29 Norske Kommanditselskap AIr Invest A/S / Leased SAS (for five years), ‘Ivar Viking’
1982-02-01 Last flight Stockholm ARN-Copenhagen
LN-AEO 1982-02-01 Re-registered
1982-03-14 Last service for Scania Stockholm ARN-Larnaca vv
1982-03 Repainted in Nigeria Airways color scheme
1982-03-31 Delivery Copenhagen-Lagos
1982-04-01 Sub-leased Nigeria Airways / In service Lagos London Heathrow
1983-06-03 Last service Lagos-Kano-London Heathrow / Returned London Heathrow-Copenhagen
1983-06-13 In service Copenhagen-New York John F. Kennedy
1985-06-07 Copenhagen Kastrup-Amsterdam as KL3001, as KL691 to Toronto Lester B. Pearson
International
1985-06-08 Arrived Amsterdam as KL692, as KL3031 to Copenhagen Kastrup
1986-02-17 Last service New York-Copenhagen
1986-03-03 Returned K/S Airinvest
1986-03-03 Leased British Airways for use by British Airtours, ‘City of Swansea’
1986-03-03/05 Ferried Copenhagen-Bangkok-Hong Kong for maintenance
G-BMGS 1986-04-27/28 Ferried Hong Kong-Dubai-London Gatwick
1986-05-03 In service with British Airtours Gatwick-Manchester Orlando
1987-10 Leased British Airways ‘City of Swansea’
1987-10-25 At London Gatwick in full British Airways color scheme
1988-10-27 Aeronautics Leasing / Leased British Airways ‘City of Swansea’ operated by British Airtours
1989-05-26/27 Last service Orlando-London Gatwick
1989-05-27 Ferried London Gatwick-London Heathrow for summer sub-lease to Caledonian Airways
1989-06-05 Ferried London Heathrow-Glasgow in full Caledonian Airways color scheme / Seen
London Heathrow named ‘City of Swansea’
1989-06-06 In service London Gatwick-Manchester-Winnipeg-Los Angeles
1989-07-18 Seen London Gatwick named ‘Loch Ness’
1989-11-03/04 Caledonian Airways Last service Orlando-Manchester-London Gatwick
1989-11-04 Ferried London Gatwick-London Heathrow / Returned British Airways / In service London
Heathrow-Bahrain-Singapore-Sydney
1990-01-19/20 Last service Bridgetown-Bardados / Ferried London Heathrow
G-VOYG 1990-01-30 Roll out London Heathrow
1990-02-03 Registered Virgin Atlantic
1990-03-10 In service London Gatwick-New York JFK
1991 Named ‘Shady Lady’
1998-11-07 stored at EGBP (Kemble)
1999 -01 Broken up EGBP

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:02 pm
by oldannyboy
Thanks to everyone for their efforts! All your infos are much appreciated!!!

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:57 pm
by 802flyguy
eta unknown wrote:
A300's were short lived- far too big for any of SK's European flights- they could never fill them. Yes they were then transferred to Scanair.
er.

You're correct, they did not stay long. IIRC, a couple went to Scanair and one was leased to MAA (Malaysia); that one was written off in landing mishap not long after it went to the carrier.


On a personal note, my first flight on an Airbus was on on of those SK A300s, LHR-CPH, in 1981. I had wound on it after being rerouted when my LAX-CPH flight diverted to YWG with an engine problem. It was quite an adventure for an aviation obsessed teenager fying alone to be overnighted in Winnepeg hotel, then rerouted YWG-YYZ-LHR-CPH. To top things off, the YYZ flight did a very late go around on final!

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:57 pm
by Mortyman
There is a lot of info here regarding type of aircraft and history

List of aircraft operated by Scandinavian Airlines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ai ... n_Airlines

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:15 pm
by Crackshot
Slightly off-topic, but one of their 747-200's was targeted by Ramzi Yousef whilst in service with PAL.

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:58 pm
by klm617
Also one 747 crashed on approach to Madrid while on lease to Avianca.

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:03 am
by The777Man
I think the A300s flew ARN-LHR and CPH-LHR before they were transferred to Scanair. Most likely other routes too but can't recall.

The777Man

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:17 am
by prebennorholm
The777Man wrote:
I think the A300s flew ARN-LHR and CPH-LHR before they were transferred to Scanair. Most likely other routes too but can't recall.

Correct. Those four A300 were delivered as short range B-2 models for the high volume routes such as CPH- and ARN-LHR.

But just about everything went wrong with those A300s.

First SAS got a new CEO - Jan Carlzon - with a different philosophy. To compete against other carriers, such as BA, he wanted high frequency rather than big planes. So he bought huge loads of additional DC-9s.

They were the only PW powered A300s in the world. SAS had demanded PW power instead of GE to have commonality with the 747s. But soon after delivery the 747s were replaced by GE powered DC-10s.

The A300s were then converted to B-4 models. For a brief period they served various longer routes, including to Asia. Soon they were transferred to Scanair, but it was "too much" for them.

With the PW engines they proved difficult to sell. They were then leased to various carriers. One was crashed by a Malaysian operator. Another one was leased to an Egyptian carrier which soon went bankrupt. It was detained by the Egyptian authorities for several months, Finally a SAS crew was tasked with ferrying it back home. They forgot to bring gas masks - the lavs had not been serviced while parked in Egypt. It was said that it took ten gallons of French perfume to make it serviceable again.

Finally in 1987 the remaining three birds found a good home with Danish charter operator Conair. They were in need for a cheap replacement of a minor fleet of very old B720s. They had just damaged two of their five B720s in hard landings, not to be repaired.

Those A300s stayed on board when Conair merged with Scanair to become Premiair, later My Travel. Now they are Thomas Cook Scandinavia.

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:52 am
by Viscount724
JetBuddy wrote:
The DC-8s were never upgraded to Super 70s versions. But they were transfered to Scanair in the mid/late 80s and flew at least until '89 on typical sun & fun routes from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean.


The 556th and last DC-8 built was a -63 delivered to SK in May 1972, SE-DBL. First photo below soon after delivery. It was converted to a freighter in 1989 and spent quite a few years with Emery Worldwide until they shut down. I believe the aircraft is still intact at VCV after being stored there about 15 years ago. The last photo below is dated 2013 but one item from late last year says it's still there. Since the first DC-8 built was sadly scrapped after many years in the desert, it would be nice if someone could consider rescuing the last one built for a museum somewhere.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:51 pm
by oldannyboy
Thanks everyone for their precious insight!!!

Regards,

danny

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:15 pm
by MD80
prebennorholm wrote:

First SAS got a new CEO - Jan Carlzon - with a different philosophy. To compete against other carriers, such as BA, he wanted high frequency rather than big planes. So he bought huge loads of additional DC-9s.


SAS leased only a few additional DC-9s but the management made the important decision to retain their DC-9-21/-41s. The airline also asked all relevant manufacturers for a PPP (Passenger Pleasing Plane) but no manufacturer was willing to design auch an aircraft and the airline choose the MD-80 as the best-suited aircraft regarding comfort and fleet-commonality. This was probably one reason for the rather late decision of SAS to order the MD-80.

Regards

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:44 pm
by CF-CPI
FUN FACT regarding the A300s: SAS specified that the four economy lavs be clustered center cabin at the L3/R3 doors. This kept the lav traffic away from the rear galley. I believe they were the only A300 operator to do this. Keep it in mind, since it could be come a Double Jeopardy question! :ugeek:

Those P&W birds would have been perfect for Northwest. Too bad Donald Nyrop was not inclined towards widebody twins.

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:48 pm
by N14AZ
eta unknown wrote:
. I believe there was one infamous 747 in the fleet that was underpowered and later caused considerable strife for it's new operator when converted to a freighter.

That sounds interesting. How can it be that one particular 747 was underpowered? Do you have more details?

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:43 pm
by breiz
In addition to the valuable information already provided, here are some details about the A300s::

MSN 079 A300 B2-320 LN-RCA del. 17 Jan 1980, modified to B4-120 standard in early 1983, transferred to Scanair on 25 Mar 1983 still LN-RCA, then Conair as OY-CNA on 24 Oct 1987, then Premiair in Jan 1995, then Bosphorus European as TC-OYC on 13 Dec 2003, broken-up at Istanbul in Apr 2014

MSN 094 A300 B2-320 SE-DFK del. 10 Mar 1980, modified to B4-120 standard in early 1983, transferred to Scanair on 31 Mar 1983 still SE-DFK, then Conair as OY-CNK on 20 Nov 1987, then Premiair in Nov 1995, then Bosphorus European as TC-OIM on 13 Dec 2003, broken-up at Istanbul in Mar 2014

MSN 122 A300 B2-320 OY-KAA del. 12 Dec1980, modified to B4-120 standard in Jun 1983, leased to Malaysian Al. System on 11 Oct 1983 still OY-KAA, and on 18 Dec 1983, landed 2 km short of KUL. W/o, no casualty

MSN 128 A300 B2-320 SE-DFL del. 12 Mar 1981, modified to B4-120 standard in Jun 1983, transferred to Scanair on Jan 1984 still SE-DFL, then Conair as OY-CNL on 01 Feb 1987, then Premiair in May 1994, then Bosphorus European as TC-COA on Dec 2001, broken-up at Istanbul in Mar 2014

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:47 am
by ghost77
oldannyboy wrote:
3) Finally the DC-8: I remember they lasted for a long time, and I remember seeing the -62 and -63 in the new livery. Were they operated also intra-Europe? What configurations were they operated in? Last flights??


These are the seatmaps published on the SAS Worldwide Timetable valid from March, 29 to June 24, 1987:

Image

Image

Tel Aviv, Jeddah, Riyadh, Sondre Stromfjord, Lulea, Malmö, and Gothenburg were some of the last destinations served by SK DC-8s from Copenhagen or Stockholm.

g77

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:25 am
by trent768
prebennorholm wrote:
They were the only PW powered A300s in the world. SAS had demanded PW power instead of GE to have commonality with the 747s. But soon after delivery the 747s were replaced by GE powered DC-10s.

Aren't the PW on SAS 742 had a different cowling than the usual JT-9, similar to the CF-6?

Re: SAS old equipment questions...

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:27 am
by sas931
The A300s were then converted to B-4 models. For a brief period they served various longer routes, including to Asia. Soon they were transferred to Scanair, but it was "too much" for them.

Must admit that I never ever can remember SAS flying A300B4 on any Asian routes...
The DC8`were more or less all used on SAS routes through-out the net...even within shorter routes such as BGO-OSL, but also used adhoc and back-up on danish domestic routes..Remember that I have flown on a DC8-62 CPH-BLL....
And during a winter in 1982, I think, SAS used the B747 for one flight CPH-BLL-CPH...It was a day after a snowstorm halted all domestic flights, trains and so on...SAS decided to fly a B747 to BLL with a full load of pax for all destinations in Jutland,,BLL,AAR,AAL and so on...this was just the one flight...