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LeCoqFrancais
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ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:08 pm

DETROIT — A Muslim flight attendant has sued ExpressJet, accusing the airline of wrongly suspending her because she refused to serve alcohol to passengers.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations’ Michigan chapter announced Tuesday it filed the lawsuit last week on behalf of Charee Stanley, a Detroit-based flight attendant for the airline headquartered in Atlanta.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslim-flig ... t-airline/
--
She should have known that being a F/A at a non-dry airline requires you to serve alcohol irrelevant of your religion...go work for a dry airline, serve alcohol or go find another job.
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Aeroflot777
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:10 pm

This is getting out of hand. She knew the conditions and requirements of her job when applying.

Is that just a premeditated tactic to sue and make cash? Though I sincerely hope this case goes flying far out the window just like her F/A career.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:15 pm

This was the same case as the one discussed last year

viewtopic.php?t=594521
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MIflyer12
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:24 pm

Ask the people who become pharmacists and don't want to offer morning-after pills. They're just exercising their religious liberties, after all.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:34 pm

The employer should fire as there is only one F/A. Same with the Pharmacist. They are hired for a job.

For the record. I do not drink before. On, or for an hour or so around flights. But that is my 'dyhydration preference,' not anything else. Well that and everyone seems to ask me to drive...

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Jetty
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:31 pm

Aeroflot777 wrote:
She knew the conditions and requirements of her job when applying.


According to her she knew the requirements of the job but until recently she wasn't aware of the requirements of islam vis-à-vis serving alcohol :shock: https://youtu.be/eFNkPEyz0jM
 
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Siren
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:22 am

Oy vei.

What a joke. A flight attendant's essential functions are to service the passengers, and in the event of an emergency, assist with the safe execution of brace drills, evacuations, medical assistance for passengers, and such. But emergency situations rarely arise. A flight attendant's essential function, day to day, is the servicing of passengers. Giving them their snacks, or their alcohol, and so on. She's asking for an exemption to do her job...

And unfortunately, she's going to get just that. Just as pharmacists have won court battles to allow them to not do their jobs, Hobby Lobby won a religious exemption to the healthcare laws requiring them to provide health insurance to their employees, and so on, she will win if the courts uphold their previous decisions. If she loses, especially at a high level (say one of the Federal Circuit Courts of Appeal), this will effectively overturn the existing status quo in the United States wherein employees of corporations are allowed to ignore their own job descriptions on a 'religious' basis. Such a precedent would allow pharmacies to fire pharmacists who refuse to dispense certain medications due to their religion...

I think such religious exemptions should not be allowed. A private company should have every right to fire an individual who does not perform the essential functions of the job, but that has changed in recent years due to Christian extremism taking hold in this country that the courts have upheld. If it's a religious liberty allowed to Christians, it has to be allowed for anyone else...
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:38 am

Jetty wrote:
Aeroflot777 wrote:
She knew the conditions and requirements of her job when applying.


According to her she knew the requirements of the job but until recently she wasn't aware of the requirements of islam vis-à-vis serving alcohol :shock: https://youtu.be/eFNkPEyz0jM



It's more bizarre that she didn't know her religion prohibited it.
 
itisi
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:52 am

This is complete crap and now more cases of people using their religion to make trouble or for profit. She knew she would get fired and I'm sure she knows she has a good chance to sue them on religious grounds.

So now airliners could say NO Muslim flight attendants... And Muslim groups would be up in arms....

World is going mad..
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LAX772LR
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:21 am

So what's the ultimate conclusion of this crap?

What happens when she (or someone pulling the same nonsense) refuses to assist a Jew during an evac or medical emergency? Seriously.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jetmatt777
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:24 am

As they only operate 50 seat aircraft with one flight attendant, if she indeed wins they will be forced to put a second flight attendant on every flight she takes for the sole purpose of serving alcohol.
 
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HGL
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:05 am

itisi wrote:

So now airliners could say NO Muslim flight attendants... And Muslim groups would be up in arms....

Justifiably so. An airline should not discriminate against an entire section of the population on the basis of what one person has done.

But it is a myth that Muslims can not serve alcohol to non-Muslims, ever. It is certainly not mentioned in Qur'an, although there are references in Hadith and on this opinion is divided. Some believe it is so but Miss Hasan, legal advisor to the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain has stated that Islamic law does not prohibit Muslims from selling alcohol in a supermarket, for example.

Surah 2:173, reads: ‘He has forbidden you carrion, blood, and the flesh of swine; also any flesh that is consecrated other than in the name of God. But whoever is compelled through necessity, intending neither to sin nor to transgress, shall incur no guilt. God is forgiving and merciful.’ The same passage is repeated in Surah 16:115. While alcohol is not mentioned, the notion of doing something generally not accepted becoming acceptable in the circumstances is. So it is reasonable under the circumstances that an employee serves alcohol to a passenger as part of her duties. It would be quite a different matter if she were to open a bottle-shop and run it for profit.

Predominantly Muslim countries like Jordan even produce wine. Airlines like Emirates are very generous when it comes to serving alcohol. If it were forbidden for Muslims to handle alcohol, surely it would be haram for Emirates airline to do so.
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EA CO AS
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:53 am

Siren wrote:
She's asking for an exemption to do her job...

And unfortunately, she's going to get just that.


Doubtful.

Serving customers is one of the basic requirements of her job. Workplace accommodations cannot be so burdensome that they fundamentally alter or omit basic job functions or requirements.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:29 am

I hope she ends up with nothing and the suspension upheld. She deserves nothing.
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art
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:32 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
As they only operate 50 seat aircraft with one flight attendant, if she indeed wins they will be forced to put a second flight attendant on every flight she takes for the sole purpose of serving alcohol.


That's a killer for her argument that her religious beliefs should be accommodated by her employer (if that is the drift of her argument). The way I see it is that she was prepared to discharge the duties of a flight attendant for a time. Now that she is no longer prepared to discharge the duties of a flight attendant (for religious reasons), she has made herself unviable as an employee.
 
kq747
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:00 pm

This again! What a load of nonsense! If your religion prevents your from doing your job, get another job! Also where does it end? The legal standard in the US is the sincerity of religious belief not the validity, so I can create a religion where working on Mondays is forbidden because I definitely have a sincere belief that the weekend is too short. Would definitely love more three day weekends ;)
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ask the people who become pharmacists and don't want to offer morning-after pills. They're just exercising their religious liberties, after all.


Or the clerks who won't issue same sex marriage licenses based on their religious beliefs...
 
Beatyair
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:10 pm

The fight attendant was trained and must have been serving alcohol up to the point of finding out that she could not for religious purposes. At that point, I would think that you have options. Politely resign, ask there airline if there is another job that does not involve serving alcohol, or staying a FA and not follow all the beliefs of your religion. There are choices without legal action. Also, the airline needs to be of an open mind and work with what could be a loyal employee.
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:19 pm

Jetty wrote:
Aeroflot777 wrote:
She knew the conditions and requirements of her job when applying.


According to her she knew the requirements of the job but until recently she wasn't aware of the requirements of islam vis-à-vis serving alcohol :shock: https://youtu.be/eFNkPEyz0jM


I'm just reading this, perhaps somebody who knows more can answer. I see nothing that says that religious belief prevents her from touching alcohol, in fact the opposite. If it is for cleaning purposes, she certainly can. It says she *cannot* consume alcohol which is not a requirement of the job. Why would she be unable to serve alcohol to non-Muslims?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_d ... ntoxicants
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:42 pm

Here's the thing.

I was on a DFW to IAD UAX E75 earlier this year. Before boarding, the gate agent announced that nothing would be served on the flight except cola and water - and should we wish anything else - purchase it and bring it on board. At the time I didn't put it together - the two FAs didn't wish to serve alcohol.

No problem since there are plenty of bars at Washington-Dulles and at the surrounding hotels.

But announcing that the plane was *dry* before we boarded made all the difference.
 
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enilria
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:50 pm

kgaiflyer wrote:
Here's the thing.

I was on a DFW to IAD UAX E75 earlier this year. Before boarding, the gate agent announced that nothing would be served on the flight except cola and water - and should we wish anything else - purchase it and bring it on board. At the time I didn't put it together - the two FAs didn't wish to serve alcohol.

No problem since there are plenty of bars at Washington-Dulles and at the surrounding hotels.

But announcing that the plane was *dry* before we boarded made all the difference.

The problem comes in that the airlines offer free alcohol as a perk to their best customers and now they are taking that away from their customers. Also, a good portion of the FA job is being a bartender. Should bartenders be able to refuse to serve alcohol? There are immoral activities that are legal, but those jobs still need to be staffed.
 
LINYUSA
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:02 pm

Surely she knew even when she applied for the position that flight attendants served alcohol. If this is so problematic for her, she should work for Saudia or some other teetotalling Middle-Eastern airline.
 
YZF101
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:04 pm

kgaiflyer wrote:
Here's the thing.

I was on a DFW to IAD UAX E75 earlier this year. Before boarding, the gate agent announced that nothing would be served on the flight except cola and water - and should we wish anything else - purchase it and bring it on board. At the time I didn't put it together - the two FAs didn't wish to serve alcohol.

No problem since there are plenty of bars at Washington-Dulles and at the surrounding hotels.

But announcing that the plane was *dry* before we boarded made all the difference.


Interesting point...but rather invalid as I could bring many bottles on board (and oversized too) and then the FAs lose a chance to limit consumption on board - case for another lawsuit by passengers. Me thinks this is just a road we do not need to go down. Religious accommodations have gone wee bit too far - court clerks, pharmacists, flight attendants. What next? Clergymen?
 
DTWPurserBoy
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The carrier

Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:39 pm

From what I have heard she was a very recent convert to Islam. If she feels that strongly she should resign. Many middle eastern carriers serve alcohol and while many of their f/a's are westerners many are Muslim.

The carrier has the out in that when you claim that you can no longer perform ALL of the required functions of the job you can be terminated. If you cannot operate the emergency exits safely, or refuse to handle or serve pork or shellfish products you can be gone. Frankly, this looks like a money grab. An airline cannot ask what your religion is during an interview and they are required to make "reasonable accommodation" for some religious practices (for instance, several of our female agents are Muslim and wear long sleeves and keep their hair covered) but carriers have drawn the line at those who refuse to fly on the Sabbath. You sign an employment agreement stating that you will be available to work any flight to anywhere on the planet at any time without restrictions and to perform all of the functions of the job as stated in your company manual.

This young lady is gone and her "case" will be challenged vigorously by the airline.
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usxguy
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:15 pm

I'm sympathetic to anyone that has found their faith in conflict with their work, but as some suggest maybe ExpressJet wasn't her best employer. I know many airlines will make accommodations as they see fit, but if she worked for an airline where she wasn't a sole crew member.

I think I've only noticed ONE time where I've ordered an alcoholic drink and another FA gave it to me...
xx
 
usflyguy
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:53 pm

kgaiflyer wrote:
Here's the thing.

I was on a DFW to IAD UAX E75 earlier this year. Before boarding, the gate agent announced that nothing would be served on the flight except cola and water - and should we wish anything else - purchase it and bring it on board. At the time I didn't put it together - the two FAs didn't wish to serve alcohol.

No problem since there are plenty of bars at Washington-Dulles and at the surrounding hotels.

But announcing that the plane was *dry* before we boarded made all the difference.


They were referring to food. You can't consume alcohol onboard an aircraft that you brought with you.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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hispanola
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:06 pm

Either get another job or serve the alcohol. I wonder if this has happened with flight attendants of other dry faiths (mormons, baptists, jainists...).
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81819
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:10 pm

HGL wrote:
itisi wrote:

So now airliners could say NO Muslim flight attendants... And Muslim groups would be up in arms....

Justifiably so. An airline should not discriminate against an entire section of the population on the basis of what one person


Thanks for the information.

I support the principals of consciencous objection, so from this perspective, on face value it would have been a better situation if the employer accommodated her in another position instead of sacking her.

If we simply look at global business, it is extremely important to be sensitive to cultural differences. Success is dependent on it.

In Australia, we are currently experiencing economic benefits (exports) by producing processed meats to halal standards. As such, a greater good has been achieved by simply accommodating differences in cultures and religion.
 
MD88CLE
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:16 pm

enilria wrote:
kgaiflyer wrote:
The problem comes in that the airlines offer free alcohol as a perk to their best customers and now they are taking that away from their customers.


And for people flying first class, it's not just a loyalty perk, it's something they paid for. I get that it's just one part of the advantages of first class, and that not everyone would take advantage anyways, but the fact is that it's something the airlines advertise as an advantage of flying first class.
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:22 pm

MD88CLE wrote:
enilria wrote:
kgaiflyer wrote:
The problem comes in that the airlines offer free alcohol as a perk to their best customers and now they are taking that away from their customers.


And for people flying first class, it's not just a loyalty perk, it's something they paid for. I get that it's just one part of the advantages of first class, and that not everyone would take advantage anyways, but the fact is that it's something the airlines advertise as an advantage of flying first class.

There's no F class in 1 flight attendant airplanes.
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:40 pm

travelhound wrote:
HGL wrote:
itisi wrote:

In Australia, ... by producing processed meats to halal standards. As such, a greater good has been achieved by simply accommodating differences in cultures and religion.


Oh I'm sure you mean a greater "Bad" has been achieved. By cow-towing to religious fundamentalism in a secular society, we in the west are forcing the non-muslim population to consume "Halal" foods, thereby dramatically increasing Animal Cruelty for the pursuit of profit in the Muslim market.

I for one am not proud of the fact that all the animals must suffer greatly during slaughter to satisfy religious fundamentalism, and suggest this is a blight in western countries such as yours and nothing to be proud of.

Same to the requirement to serve alcohol on board, we are eroding our own cultural standards and secular freedoms to accomodate the religious preference of a job seeker such as this F/A? Thats also unacceptable! Find a job somewhere else!

Peace...
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:06 pm

LINYUSA wrote:
Surely she knew even when she applied for the position that flight attendants served alcohol. If this is so problematic for her, she should work for Saudia or some other teetotalling Middle-Eastern airline.


I believe the real issue is when she was originally hired she was non religious or Christian, then she converted to Islam and became a twit.
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:21 pm

bgm wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Ask the people who become pharmacists and don't want to offer morning-after pills. They're just exercising their religious liberties, after all.


Or the clerks who won't issue same sex marriage licenses based on their religious beliefs...


Exactly. Don't like the duties? Don't take the job.
 
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LeCoqFrancais
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:01 am

aeropix wrote:
Oh I'm sure you mean a greater "Bad" has been achieved. By cow-towing to religious fundamentalism in a secular society, we in the west are forcing the non-muslim population to consume "Halal" foods, thereby dramatically increasing Animal Cruelty for the pursuit of profit in the Muslim market.

I for one am not proud of the fact that all the animals must suffer greatly during slaughter to satisfy religious fundamentalism, and suggest this is a blight in western countries such as yours and nothing to be proud of.

Same to the requirement to serve alcohol on board, we are eroding our own cultural standards and secular freedoms to accomodate the religious preference of a job seeker such as this F/A? Thats also unacceptable! Find a job somewhere else!

Peace...

You finish your post by a Peace, but your post is nothing less then a ignorant flamebait one. What is so terrible when eating Halal (or Kosher) food? So its not as tender as the ones we usually eat (at least that was the impression I got when I had Halal chicken), but if the same chicken that we kill for selfish purpose has become interesting to more people simply by killing it a certain way then it can't be that bad, as by making that chicken interesting for a greater part of the population we have reduced its chances of becoming wasted food and having been killed for no reason.
As for the alcohol, even if I agree she is a twit that should find a job elsewhere where she does have to serve alcohol, I don't see how being understanding -in the marge of being reasonable- erods our own cultural standards.
By saying what you said in your post you give the impressions of being just as bad as her, because as much as she does not want to be flexible you show the same lack of flexibility.
Sébastien C. Tourillon
 
Jetty
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:12 am

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
What is so terrible when eating Halal (or Kosher) food? So its not as tender as the ones we usually eat (at least that was the impression I got when I had Halal chicken), but if the same chicken that we kill for selfish purpose has become interesting to more people simply by killing it a certain way then it can't be that bad, as by making that chicken interesting for a greater part of the population we have reduced its chances of becoming wasted food and having been killed for no reason.

I suggest you educate yourself on the requirements of halal food before making such statements. It's not just killing the animals 'in another way', but in a more cruel way (unsedated). If it wasn't to accommodate the religion of peace such methods would be forbidden in the civilized world for animal welfare reasons. Not 'a greater good' that has been achieved in any form or way (except for the economic interests of Australia maybe).

By saying what you said in your post you give the impressions of being just as bad as her, because as much as she does not want to be flexible you show the same lack of flexibility.

Not every lack of flexibility is equal, and as aero stated flexibility towards demands based on the sharia (that is wholly incompatible with any kind of western society) does indeed erode western cultural standards and secular freedoms.

The flight attendant DEMANDS flexibility so she can live according to the sharia (which is the one and only reason as by her own account she didn't have any problem serving alcohol until some sharia expert told her about sharia law regarding alcohol), while as a passenger I simply expect that any flight attendant doesn't hold said vile sharia higher than my simple request for a beverage.
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:27 am

hispanola wrote:
Either get another job or serve the alcohol. I wonder if this has happened with flight attendants of other dry faiths (mormons, baptists, jainists...).


From what I understand at least for Mormons a/k/a Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, its a personal thing not drinking Alcohol or caffeine.

I regularly drink coffee in a LDS meeting house during a weekly rehearsal held there. Before doing so we asked the LDS member of our group and she said it was fine. We also take our disposable coffee cups with us out of respect and a desire not to start the Spanish inquisition. :lol:
 
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:22 am

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
DETROIT — A Muslim flight attendant has sued ExpressJet, accusing the airline of wrongly suspending her because she refused to serve alcohol to passengers.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations’ Michigan chapter announced Tuesday it filed the lawsuit last week on behalf of Charee Stanley, a Detroit-based flight attendant for the airline headquartered in Atlanta.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslim-flig ... t-airline/
--
She should have known that being a F/A at a non-dry airline requires you to serve alcohol irrelevant of your religion...go work for a dry airline, serve alcohol or go find another job.


I think none of you are lawyers. The employer is required by American law to make a "reasonable accommodation" because as a society we have decided that religious beliefs get "reasonable accommodation" while at work. The normal example is that some people don't have to work the Sabath, if that's an easy thing for the employer to schedule around. The definition of "reasonable" is in the eye of the jury. If there were two FAs, then "have another flight attendant serve those few people who want alcohol" may or may not work, depending on how you see things. But since there is only on FA, it will be hard for her to win the case.
Last edited by kitplane01 on Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:27 am

Siren wrote:
I think such religious exemptions should not be allowed. A private company should have every right to fire an individual who does not perform the essential functions of the job, but that has changed in recent years due to Christian extremism taking hold in this country that the courts have upheld. If it's a religious liberty allowed to Christians, it has to be allowed for anyone else...


You have to perform essential functions of the job. What the law allows is that you get a "reasonable accommodation". The pharmacy thing .. (ducks head to avoid politics)

"Title VII requires an employer, once on notice that a religious accommodation is needed, to reasonably accommodate an employee whose sincerely held religious belief, practice, or observance conflicts with a work requirement, unless doing so would pose an undue hardship". https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/qanda_religion.html
 
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kitplane01
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:33 am

Jetty wrote:
I suggest you educate yourself on the requirements of halal food before making such statements. It's not just killing the animals 'in another way', but in a more cruel way (unsedated).


Eek. Why do you think they kill animals "sedated"? I don't think that's standard industry practice anywhere in the world, and the meat of drugged animals might not be what everyone wants.
 
81819
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:42 am

aeropix wrote:
travelhound wrote:
HGL wrote:


Oh I'm sure you mean a greater "Bad" has been achieved. By cow-towing to religious fundamentalism in a secular society, we in the west are forcing the non-muslim population to consume "Halal" foods, thereby dramatically increasing Animal Cruelty for the pursuit of profit in the Muslim market.

I for one am not proud of the fact that all the animals must suffer greatly during slaughter to satisfy religious fundamentalism, and suggest this is a blight in western countries such as yours and nothing to be proud of.

Same to the requirement to serve alcohol on board, we are eroding our own cultural standards and secular freedoms to accomodate the religious preference of a job seeker such as this F/A? Thats also unacceptable! Find a job somewhere else!

You had made quite a few assumptions that are simply not correct.

First of all, Australia is not a rogue country that operates without standards. To the contrary, farmers advocates, Australian law, scientific research and best practice standards with regards to animal welfare all form part of the economic equation that facilitates the production of meat products for Muslim countries.

Secondly, there is a long history of Australia and the Muslim states having a healthy dialogue about food standards and animal welfare issues. On the whole these conversations have been respectful and in consideration of the differences associated with cultures and religion.

Thirdly, if you did your research, you would realise Australia is respected the world over for having very high food standards. It is simply an assumption on your part to associate economic benefits with poor animal welfare.





Peace...
 
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admanager
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:02 am

Ok, we've moved off topic, but for clarity, since 1978 a beef slaughterhouse in the US will first stun the animal (not sedated thru drugs) with a steel bolt to the brain. In Halal (and Kosher) slaughter, the animal is conscious when it's throat is slit and it's allowed to bleed out.
To point of the thread, if this is the case we discussed a year ago, can any lawyers with access to Westlaw search and tell us the result.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:24 am

admanager wrote:
To point of the thread, if this is the case we discussed a year ago, can any lawyers with access to Westlaw search and tell us the result.

Appears to be the same person in two different actions.

In the 2015 case, as well as the one made public 3 days ago, the plaintiff is named "Charee Stanley"
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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admanager
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:32 am

Nice research LAX. Thanks
 
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lollomz
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:51 am

Why not to resign? She is free to find a new job!!!
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art
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:18 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Serving customers is one of the basic requirements of her job. Workplace accommodations cannot be so burdensome that they fundamentally alter or omit basic job functions or requirements.


Seems a reasonable view but can a jury be expected to take a reasonable view if this case gets that far?

What I find somewhat curious is that customers who wish to buy a product or service that is entirely legal should be denied that right by the sole company employee assigned to provide that service on a 50 seat airliner. The company wants to sell refreshments to its customers; some customers wish to buy refreshments from the company; an FA who works for that company wishes to dictate what the company can sell and what customers can buy on her shift.
 
usflyer123
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:31 am

thats just stupid...
she is in an american airline, not in a muslim one and she knew her job would require serving alcoholic beverages to pax.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
81819
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:58 am

It is interesting that some of the arguments raised against this woman relate to ones' own sense of morality relating to work ethic. It seems there is a prevailing thought that a "good" worker is one that simply performs their role without any other influence.

From the article the woman has been given "leave" on the basis that she, (rightly or wrongly) made a conscientious objection to serving alcohol. There is no evidence to suggest she has otherwise acted inappropriately or was not performing her duties as required.

As such, she is simply exercising her religious freedoms rights that are part of the framework of the American Constitution.

When we consider what constitutes a "right" (as opposed to wrong) "work ethic", we probably need to consider the history associated with the topic.

If we go back to the start of the protestant movement Martin Luther and John Calvin associated working "diligently" to ones morality. This was in opposition to the prevailing thought of the time where ones' morality was directly linked to the type of work they performed (i.e. the clergy were considered more moral than a farm hand).

As such, a culture of work ethic often referred as the "Protestant Work Ethic" prevails in the world today. Many religious commentators, (in my opinion) rightly argue the association of Calvin and Luther thoughts on work ethic to a sense of morality is incorrect and not theologically based. It is interesting that in the secular realm, thoughts of a right and wrong "work ethic" abound!

As other commentators have posted she is simply exercising her rights as an American citizen. From where I sit it is a remarkable accomplishment that America, the first truly multi-cultural country has a framework in place where one, rightly or wrongly has a means to have their rights adjudicated upon.






Interestingly there are some comments centring
 
art
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:11 pm

travelhound wrote:
It is interesting that some of the arguments raised against this woman relate to ones' own sense of morality relating to work ethic. It seems there is a prevailing thought that a "good" worker is one that simply performs their role without any other influence.

From the article the woman has been given "leave" on the basis that she, (rightly or wrongly) made a conscientious objection to serving alcohol. There is no evidence to suggest she has otherwise acted inappropriately or was not performing her duties as required.

As such, she is simply exercising her religious freedoms rights that are part of the framework of the American Constitution.


Don't know about you, but I think the ethical thing for the FA to do would have been to inform her employer that she could no longer discharge her duties as an FA due to religious beliefs she had acquired that prevented her doing the job of an FA, so felt forced to tender her resignation.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:31 pm

art wrote:
Don't know about you, but I think the ethical thing for the FA to do would have been to inform her employer that she could no longer discharge her duties as an FA due to religious beliefs she had acquired that prevented her doing the job of an FA, so felt forced to tender her resignation.


According to CAIR based on news reports last year, she had reported it to her employer, the airline asked her work it out with the other crew members & it was working fine until somebody complained to the airline about her headscarf, which I assumed was in retaliation to her request to be accommodated to not serve alcohol - http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/09/01/ ... al-rights/

By the way, ExpressJet has CRJ700/CRJ900 in their fleet from what I can see on their website. Wouldn't they need to have a minimum of 2 F/As for these flights?
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
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enilria
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Re: ExpressJet suspends F/A because of unwillingness to serve alcohol

Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:32 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
art wrote:
Don't know about you, but I think the ethical thing for the FA to do would have been to inform her employer that she could no longer discharge her duties as an FA due to religious beliefs she had acquired that prevented her doing the job of an FA, so felt forced to tender her resignation.


According to CAIR based on news reports last year, she had reported it to her employer, the airline asked her work it out with the other crew members & it was working fine until somebody complained to the airline about her headscarf, which I assumed was in retaliation to her request to be accommodated to not serve alcohol - http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/09/01/ ... al-rights/

By the way, ExpressJet has CRJ700/CRJ900 in their fleet from what I can see on their website. Wouldn't they need to have a minimum of 2 F/As for these flights?

They also have plenty of 50 seaters. How do you work that out? And BTW, the bidding process is set by the union basically. She doesn't get preferential bidding to larger aircraft for religious reasons AFAIK.

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