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seabosdca
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Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:46 am

Happened to look at a SDR for N702DN, a Delta 777-200LR, and noticed that as of April it had 41210 hours but only 3566 cycles. That's eleven and a half hours a cycle. By hours, the aircraft is midlife; by cycles, it's just a baby.

Are there any other aircraft out there that have even more hours for every cycle? Most Asian airlines use their long-haul aircraft on some regional rotations as well. Most European operators have shorter flights, even intercontinentally.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:22 am

I bet some of the old 733's for WN have tons of cycles. I have heard LH 744's have some of the most hours of any heavy out there.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:54 am

Domestic aircraft that are repeatedly assigned red eye lines usually run the highest utilization. Flying all night followed by quick turns and a seamless integration back into the day time operations.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:50 am

Qantas A380's would surely be near the most, given the routes they operate:

SYD-LAX ~14 hours
MEL-LAX ~14.5 hours
SYD-DFW ~16 hours
SYD-DXB ~14.5 hours
MEL-DXB ~14 hours
DXB-LHR ~7.5 hours
SYD-HKG ~9.5 hours (seasonally IIRC)

Hard to think of a fleet that more consistently operates ULH flights.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:12 am

Wouldn't Air New Zealand's 777 / 787 be up there as well, given the remoteness of New Zealand?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Qantas16
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:40 am

Dutchy wrote:
Wouldn't Air New Zealand's 777 / 787 be up there as well, given the remoteness of New Zealand?


While that is true, normally in between long haul rotations they will operate flights to Australia or Pacific Islands so would increase the cycles for only 3-4 hour flights.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:59 am

Qantas16 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Wouldn't Air New Zealand's 777 / 787 be up there as well, given the remoteness of New Zealand?


While that is true, normally in between long haul rotations they will operate flights to Australia or Pacific Islands so would increase the cycles for only 3-4 hour flights.


Ah ok, so that is also a consequence of operating the A380, lack of flexibility and won't be able to operate it on a 3-4hour stretch, because of overkill.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Qantas16
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:26 am

Dutchy wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Wouldn't Air New Zealand's 777 / 787 be up there as well, given the remoteness of New Zealand?


While that is true, normally in between long haul rotations they will operate flights to Australia or Pacific Islands so would increase the cycles for only 3-4 hour flights.


Ah ok, so that is also a consequence of operating the A380, lack of flexibility and won't be able to operate it on a 3-4hour stretch, because of overkill.


Yes and no. NZ operates a different sort of model to QF. Australia has the significantly larger population and O&D to support longhaul routes (e.g. LAX, SFO, DFW, SCL), whereas NZ relies heavily on Australian traffic to fill their long haul (to the Americas anyway) flights. So for NZ to operate a rotation of a 77E like BNE-AKL-YVR, this will see a lot of passenger continuing from BNE to LAX, SFO, HOU, YVR, EZE.

Whereas in reverse, where is the aircraft meant to operate? The only one that could potentially make sense would be a route like AKL-SYD-JNB on a 789. But that is the exception really. I guess you could argue something like a PER-SYD-DFW flight, but the fleet is quite tightly scheduled as it is, they don't have much time sitting around (except in LAX), and the 737/A330 domestic/tasman fleet does the job.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:44 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
Qantas A380's would surely be near the most, given the routes they operate:


Qantas A380s do indeed seem like a good bet to accumulate lots of hours per cycle. Is there any public reporting of hours/cycles for Australian-registered aircraft, like the SDRs for American-registered ones?
 
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GSPFlyer
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:22 pm

Emirates 777-200LR should be up there.

While they aren't operated any more, I bet Singapore's A345's were high, since they were only operated on SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR. Both routes were well over 17 hours, with the return flights being over 18.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:27 pm

GSPFlyer wrote:
Emirates 777-200LR should be up there.


Doubt it. They operate a lot of rotations to India and the Middle East for utilization between the ULH flights. I'd expect their hours per cycle to be 9-10 max. Same story with the subfleet of EK 777-300ERs with the highest available MTOW that operate a lot of the West Coast flights.

While they aren't operated any more, I bet Singapore's A345's were high, since they were only operated on SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR. Both routes were well over 17 hours, with the return flights being over 18.


Similarly, they typically operated a SIN-CGK or SIN-KUL rotation in between the ULH flights, which would drag down the average a bit. But it would be interesting to see the numbers.
 
Planesmart
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Re: Highest hours/cycles ratio?

Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:06 pm

seabosdca wrote:
GSPFlyer wrote:
Emirates 777-200LR should be up there.


Doubt it. They operate a lot of rotations to India and the Middle East for utilization between the ULH flights. I'd expect their hours per cycle to be 9-10 max. Same story with the subfleet of EK 777-300ERs with the highest available MTOW that operate a lot of the West Coast flights.


EK has a large fleet so proactively manages PBTH engine contracts, which include rebate and surcharge components based on actual use / experience. Over the life of the contract, it makes no difference, because if you schedule new aircraft on low cycles / high hours, and older aircraft on high cycles / lower hours, it balances out. However, the technique improves cash flow, shifting payments to later in the contract period, rather than evenly throughout the contract life

In contrast, NZ balance by operating new and old aircraft on a combination of low and high cycles. Great utilisation, but no scope to defer cash flow on PBTH.

From an operational perspective, as aircraft and engines become less reliable with hours and especially cycles, utilising on shorter routes when older, means shorter distances to send parts and back-up aircraft.

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