tilerchin
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:32 am

What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:59 am

So American Airlines has done a great job with expanding their TPAC network and now are retiring older planes with some newer, more fuel efficient airplanes. My question is simple, what's next? What other destinations and/or regions are they going to expand into next?
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1917
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:50 am

They are focused on the long term integration of assets between LUS and LAA. The airline is overly focused on the east coast with the LUS infrastructure centered around it and a hubbing nightmare that rivals UA. Their wholly owned regionals have alot of question marks, including serious staffing problems at Envoy that go beyond a shortage in pilots.

I still firmly believe that both airlines were better off separate. No synergies outside of a gross increase of in-house assets.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
TUSAA
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:20 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:02 am

Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s....
 
Beatyair
Posts: 855
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:32 am

TUSAA wrote:
Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s....


Sounds fair, but I think the B788's would be nice in the delta fleet. I also think that both airlines are tightening(reducing) there aircraft types a bit, so the above makes sense.

I thought that Delta maybe interested in the A330's as well. They are not that old and half are leased. Delta could pick up the leased one fairly easy.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:10 am

TUSAA wrote:
Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s....


That to me sounds like a great deal for both parties. If contract wise it works.
 
chrisp390
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:08 am

I would be interested if we see any secondary Chinese cities, African destinations, or Indian destinations from AA in the near future.
 
dynamo12
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:07 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:16 am

Integrating LAA LUS for sure - pilot SLI still needs to come out and then they'll probably do something like PBS to generate efficiency to pay for pay increases they've done. Route wise do they need to touch up west coast? East coast is pretty heavy already, US was big there. Alaska and VX joining grows some scale out west, though putting the Alaska pay to VX employees seems like it'll be expensive cost wise so not sure how much actual competition that'll provide. A lot of folks have issues with regionals, job market is THANKFULLY better for regional pilots, they deserve it and the complaining by airlines of "pilot shortage" is total bollocks... If you pay more you'll have plenty of pilots...
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12322
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:20 am

TUSAA wrote:
Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s

Certainly wouldn't put much stock in that.

DL just deferred some of the A350s it already has coming, and it's nearly 4yrs before they get any 787s...

...there's plenty of others AA could be talking to, if they wanted those aircraft in the nearer future: including Boeing salespeople. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Crazy4Planes
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:05 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:16 am

chrisp390 wrote:
I would be interested if we see any secondary Chinese cities, African destinations, or Indian destinations from AA in the near future.

There were some talks going on recently that AA is looking to restart DEL service from a major American city.
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:25 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
I would be interested if we see any secondary Chinese cities, African destinations, or Indian destinations from AA in the near future.


AA looked at JNB and CPT. Problem is they don't have an aircraft with the range to make it nonstop to a hub going west.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 L1011 MD80 SF340 AvGeek Superstore
 
GripenFan
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:41 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:53 pm

TUSAA wrote:
Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s....


If anything, AA should be talking to Airbus about swapping the A350s for A330neos. The A350 is simply too much airplane for their network.

Since UA and DL have built-up their west coast TPAC hubs in SFO & SEA, respectively, the only viable option left for AA is, of course, LAX. Given the level of competition at LAX, both foreign and domestic, not to mention how far south it is (relatively), I don’t think they can profitably fill the A350s; the B787-9 has about as much capacity as they need. The A350 is an even bigger mismatch as a B777-200ER replacement for the Atlantic and Latin America.

Don’t get me wrong; I think the A350 is a phenomenal airplane, just not for AA.
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4395
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:52 pm

GripenFan wrote:
If anything, AA should be talking to Airbus about swapping the A350s for A330neos.


Or A321NEOs. What I really think American should do is talk with Airbus to swap A350s for additional A321NEOs, and on the other hand talk with Boeing to swap 738s or 738MAX for additional 787-9s. The fact that they deferred the delivery of the first A350 to 2018 is already a sign that they are not sure they really want it. The A350s were originally ordered by US Airways, I don't think American would have ordered those if they didn't merge with US Airways.
Ben Soriano
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:53 pm

AA talking to DL for a "trade" would certainly surprise me, though I don't see it as illogical on the other hand.

Realistically, the A350-900 is a perfect plane for AA, especially since the oldest 77Es could be retired in the next 5-7 years. It's certainly not too much plane for AA; Even the 777-9 could work great for them.

However, the 787-9 could also be a good 777-200ER replacement as well. DL has 18x 787s on order, whilst AA, 22x A350-900s. AA didn't place the order, and I'm not sure if the A350 would have been ordered by AA if not ordered by US. DL is becoming a heavy Airbus user, pun definitely intended, and I doubt the 25x A339s and 25x A359s ordered will be the last.

I do not see AA investing in the A330neo, solely because of the 787s coming online. This is besides the fact that AA is getting rid of the 9x PW A330-300s in a few years, and I imagine could be sold to DL for cheap. The 15x A330-200s are being kept, as they are not only new, but have Trent 700s engines, which puts it on par with the vast 777-200ER fleet, also powered by the engine.

As for trades, I don't know why AA would opt to swap A321neo/737 MAX 8s for A330/350/787s if their goal is a fleet renewal, and a large portion of that is narrow bodies. The A321 and A321neos are being used to replace the 757s in a domestic setting and some 767s, while the 737-8 and MAX 8 are replacing the MD-82/-83s, plus the A319s for thinner/hot and high routes.

I'm going to guess that AA will wait to see who will dish out an MoM and who'll do it better as well.

That being said, AA has one of the best fleet plans out there. I don't see AA taking the A330neo. AA would be depriving themselves of a fine aircraft if the ever dropped the A350-900 order. I do see additional 787 orders. I can see a place for the A350-1000 and 777-9 if they played their cards right. I don't see any order swaps.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
GripenFan
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:41 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:09 pm

American 767 wrote:
Or A321NEOs. What I really think American should do is talk with Airbus to swap A350s for additional A321NEOs, and on the other hand talk with Boeing to swap 738s or 738MAX for additional 787-9s. The fact that they deferred the delivery of the first A350 to 2018 is already a sign that they are not sure they really want it. The A350s were originally ordered by US Airways, I don't think American would have ordered those if they didn't merge with US Airways.


I'll go one further and say that if it hadn't been for the merger US would probably be a customer for the A330-800 right now (or whatever the re-engined A330-200 is called). With Airbus dropping the A350-800 there's no way the pre-merger US network could support the -900 and certainly not 22 of them...

Boeing778X wrote:
Realistically, the A350-900 is a perfect plane for AA, especially since the oldest 77Es could be retired in the next 5-7 years. It's certainly not too much plane for AA; Even the 777-9 could work great for them.


But the A350-900 is larger and has quite a bit more range than just about all of the missions flown by the 77Es. Remember that even when not flying as far as it can the A350 is carrying all of the weight it needs to make those longer ranges possible (heavier structures/landing gears, more powerful engines, etc.). As for the 777-9 IMHO the only routes that could support an aircraft of that size (profitably, I'll add) are maybe DFW- and JFK-LHR, but again it's a question of whether that's the optimal use for an airplane with that much range, not to mention we have no idea what will happen to LHR traffic post-Brexit...

Boeing778X wrote:
I do not see AA investing in the A330neo, solely because of the 787s coming online.


Why not? AA is keeping the A330-200s, (not to mention will have one of the world's largest A320 family fleets), so commonality won't be an issue, and the B787-9 is better suited as B777-200ER replacement on TPAC routes.
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:03 pm

GripenFan wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Or A321NEOs. What I really think American should do is talk with Airbus to swap A350s for additional A321NEOs, and on the other hand talk with Boeing to swap 738s or 738MAX for additional 787-9s. The fact that they deferred the delivery of the first A350 to 2018 is already a sign that they are not sure they really want it. The A350s were originally ordered by US Airways, I don't think American would have ordered those if they didn't merge with US Airways.


I'll go one further and say that if it hadn't been for the merger US would probably be a customer for the A330-800 right now (or whatever the re-engined A330-200 is called). With Airbus dropping the A350-800 there's no way the pre-merger US network could support the -900 and certainly not 22 of them...

Boeing778X wrote:
Realistically, the A350-900 is a perfect plane for AA, especially since the oldest 77Es could be retired in the next 5-7 years. It's certainly not too much plane for AA; Even the 777-9 could work great for them.


But the A350-900 is larger and has quite a bit more range than just about all of the missions flown by the 77Es. Remember that even when not flying as far as it can the A350 is carrying all of the weight it needs to make those longer ranges possible (heavier structures/landing gears, more powerful engines, etc.). As for the 777-9 IMHO the only routes that could support an aircraft of that size (profitably, I'll add) are maybe DFW- and JFK-LHR, but again it's a question of whether that's the optimal use for an airplane with that much range, not to mention we have no idea what will happen to LHR traffic post-Brexit...

Boeing778X wrote:
I do not see AA investing in the A330neo, solely because of the 787s coming online.


Why not? AA is keeping the A330-200s, (not to mention will have one of the world's largest A320 family fleets), so commonality won't be an issue, and the B787-9 is better suited as B777-200ER replacement on TPAC routes.


Actually, based on the simplistic data from Wiki, the 777-200 and A350-900 are impressively similar in terms of capacity. It is true that the A350-900 has more range, but I doubt that's a bad thing. You also forget how old those 77Es are becoming. Retirements of the type are probably not so distant.

For the 777-9, AA could easily utilize the type on routes currently flown by the 77W today, perhaps in the mid-2020s. DFW/JFK-LHR are certainly the big ones, but not the only routes. They have the capacity too.

Lastly, having the world's largest A320 family fleet is irrelevant when talking about the A330. The A320 and A330 are not common in terms of technical characteristics. They might have a similar cockpit, perhaps, but the differences go beyond that. AA is not DL, and they have not invested in the A330 like DL have. Like stated, AA is in fact retiring the A333s, as they were seen as an unnessacery sub fleet with uncommon engines. The biggest reasons the A330-200s are being kept is because of their age and the Rolls Royce Trent engines, which are similar to the ones on the 777-200ERs.

They do not need the A330neo. Also, the size bracket is already taken by the 787-8 and -9, not to mention the remaining 767-300ERs that will remain for the next 7-10 years.

Also, I can see AA getting a taste of the A350 and really liking the type. Perhaps besides additional A350-900s, they also order the -1000. These, along with the 787s, replace the 767s and 777-200ERs and drive growth for AA.

The 20 777-300ER and 15-20 777-9s could then be used on not only current premium markets, but premium markets in the future.

AA having a wide body fleet that looks like this eventually doesn't look that bad:

A330-200 - Replaces 767
787-8 - Replaces 767
787-9 - Replaces Some 777
A350-900 - Replaces 777, A330-300s
A350-1000 - Growth, Replaces 777
777-300ER - Premium Markets
777-9 - Growth, Premium Markets

Airbus' powered by RR, Boeings by GE.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:15 pm

Speaking of retirements, I wonder if we'd see AA retire their A320 fleet. Some of them are close to 20 years old. Replace them with additional 737s?

IIRC there are about 50 A320s.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1937
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:51 pm

TUSAA wrote:
Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s....


Would DL take all of AA's 350s? That would be a shame I think - the 350 looks like a very comfortable plane to fly in - I think it would be a real asset for AA's long haul routes vs. the 788 which can be cramped back in economy.
 
ehaase
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:06 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:32 pm

A Delta employee who frequently posts here says that Delta may swap the 787-8 order for a 737-8 Max order. Whether American should trade its 737-8 orders for 787-9's and its 350 orders for 321's is something I wouldn't know.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1054
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:39 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
They are focused on the long term integration of assets between LUS and LAA. The airline is overly focused on the east coast with the LUS infrastructure centered around it and a hubbing nightmare that rivals UA. Their wholly owned regionals have alot of question marks, including serious staffing problems at Envoy that go beyond a shortage in pilots.

I still firmly believe that both airlines were better off separate. No synergies outside of a gross increase of in-house assets.



Care to elaborate on the staffing problems at Envoy? I thought they were pretty good on the pilot side but hadn't heard about the other employee groups. I do know the ground workers recently organized and are working on their contract.
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:42 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
They are focused on the long term integration of assets between LUS and LAA. The airline is overly focused on the east coast with the LUS infrastructure centered around it and a hubbing nightmare that rivals UA. Their wholly owned regionals have alot of question marks, including serious staffing problems at Envoy that go beyond a shortage in pilots.

I still firmly believe that both airlines were better off separate. No synergies outside of a gross increase of in-house assets.



Care to elaborate on the staffing problems at Envoy? I thought they were pretty good on the pilot side but hadn't heard about the other employee groups. I do know the ground workers recently organized and are working on their contract.


If any entity within AAG is having staffing problems, it's PSA. That's partially why Envoy postponed sending the remaining CRJ-700s to them.

Here at Envoy, we're doing okay with staffing. FA hirings continue, with around 150 or so hired this year alone, and Envoy tries to hire 6-10 new pilots every few weeks. Now that the E175 is well established in the fleet, additional FAs and training are a must.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
panam330
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:50 pm

A seasonal ORD-AMS announcement is just around the corner. Should start in the spring, 757-200 equipment. ORD-DUS will cease.
 
bgm
Posts: 2101
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:21 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
Speaking of retirements, I wonder if we'd see AA retire their A320 fleet. Some of them are close to 20 years old. Replace them with additional 737s?

IIRC there are about 50 A320s.


Some of their 737s are approaching 20 years old too.
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:16 pm

Well.. I'll guess I'll add my 2 cents to this discussion. IMHO, As an armchair CEO ! (LOL!), if I were in AA fleet planning I'd be hammering Boeing for a true, and trendsetting 757 /MoM replacement aircraft. By the time of a realistic EIS date (2024??), a substantial portion of the LUS 321's will be 20+, as will a substantial portion of the LAA 737's,LAA 757's and add in LUS A320's. A cursory review of those fleets, and calculating growth, AA could easily be a launch customer for the aircraft at a at least of 50 firm and 50 options. I really do not think it is too far of a stretch to say Boeing could garner orders for 400-+ frames to be delivered by 2030 or so...and more looking out farther.

My bet is that a fleet of 50-60 (eventually) of 787-9's is a better bet for AA, over the next 16-24 years.

The A 350's would be an odd ball in the fleet..and what is the actual fuel consumption on say a 5000 NM flight the 350 vs 787?? I don't know, but it might be an interesting number to look at.


Thoughts guys and gals?


Enjoy the weekend!...and our friends in Louisiana...please stay safe!
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:17 pm

Well.. I'll guess I'll add my 2 cents to this discussion. IMHO, As an armchair CEO ! (LOL!), if I were in AA fleet planning I'd be hammering Boeing for a true, and trendsetting 757 /MoM replacement aircraft. By the time of a realistic EIS date (2024??), a substantial portion of the LUS 321's will be 20+, as will a substantial portion of the LAA 737's,LAA 757's and add in LUS A320's. A cursory review of those fleets, and calculating growth, AA could easily be a launch customer for the aircraft at a at least of 50 firm and 50 options. I really do not think it is too far of a stretch to say Boeing could garner orders for 400-+ frames to be delivered by 2030 or so...and more looking out farther.

My bet is that a fleet of 50-60 (eventually) of 787-9's is a better bet for AA, over the next 16-24 years.

The A 350's would be an odd ball in the fleet..and what is the actual fuel consumption on say a 5000 NM flight the 350 vs 787?? I don't know, but it might be an interesting number to look at.


Thoughts guys and gals?


Enjoy the weekend!...and our friends in Louisiana...please stay safe!
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:25 pm

panam330 wrote:
A seasonal ORD-AMS announcement is just around the corner. Should start in the spring, 757-200 equipment. ORD-DUS will cease.


If true, I'd be pleasantly surprised - the fulfillment of a route AA first announced for a summer 1999 start that never ended up materializing. That would certainly help explain PHL-AMS's upcoming switching to an LAA 757 - presumably as a means to bridge 757s over AMS next summer, a la the A330 swap at DUB between ORD and PHL/CLT this summer.

That said, the 757 seems iffy for deployment on this route given not only the stage length but the general lack of competitiveness of AA's 757 offering relative to the competitors in the market (KLM 747 and United 767). ORD-DUS being dropped provides the opportunity to park another 767, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Air Berlin pick the route up instead.
 
PITflights
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:33 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:37 pm

I think AA needs to start focusing on running a better operations - way to many delays and canceled flights
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8136
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:47 pm

If Boeing can figure out how to increase the range or the 787-10 to 7,000 nm, I think AA would be very interested indeed. A 7,000 nm range 787-10 could fly to all of Europe, all of South America and South Korea/Japan from DFW, AA's home airport. I wouldn't be surprised that if Boeing can achieve that, AA cancels the 25-plane A350XWB-900 order in favor of possibly as many as 100 planes of a mix of A321ceo's and A321neo's to replace the aging 757-200 fleet on domestic and regional international routes.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:29 am

I think AA will continue to turn over its fleet.

I don't see a huge amount of crew/aircraft cross-fleeting between LUS and LAA. Maybe I am wrong? But that is doubtless rolling in. That increases efficiency.

AA is very financially healthy. A lack of fuel hedges in recent years has proved to be genius. My worries for them are a recession putting them in a terrible cash position. They are paying their pilots too much salary and not enough in profit sharing IMO.

To keep their ~950 strong mainline fleet, a constant stream of new deliveries and refurbishments is imperative. Around 1-2 new airplanes per week... forever.

It is a big ship with a lot of important hubs. I am out of the loop but it sounds like their merger is more or less on plan right now.
 
HKG212
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:39 am

GripenFan wrote:

Since UA and DL have built-up their west coast TPAC hubs in SFO & SEA, respectively, the only viable option left for AA is, of course, LAX.


I just wish AA would start giving some love to the NYC market, starting with some TPAC services not covered by a JV or code share partner, e.g. JFK-PVG, JFK-PEK, JFK-ICN, all glaring holes in the OneWorld network and perfect for B788 IMHO.

And add JFK-MEX while they are at it, another gaping hole.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:00 am

LAX772LR wrote:
TUSAA wrote:
Word going around that AA is talking with DL about taking AA's A350s and AA will take DL's 787s

Certainly wouldn't put much stock in that.

DL just deferred some of the A350s it already has coming, and it's nearly 4yrs before they get any 787s...

...there's plenty of others AA could be talking to, if they wanted those aircraft in the nearer future: including Boeing salespeople. ;)


Not sure the point of a hypothetical trade like this is about getting 787's quicker its more about keeping the types to a minimum.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:08 am

PITflights wrote:
I think AA needs to start focusing on running a better operations - way to many delays and canceled flights


This sad but true. Right now when AA Is on time and not having weather or mechanical delays there pretty good. But man when things go south they fall apart and fall apart quick. I've seen the worst service in all my years out of MIA when weather rolls in. Id' think they would have the evening thunder storms down pat in MIA.
 
sagechan
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:27 am

PITflights wrote:
I think AA needs to start focusing on running a better operations - way to many delays and canceled flights


Remember one thing that the LUS side had going for it was a well run operation the final few years. Seems to be some issues with perhaps an unhappy MTC team (now with new pay raises), some reliability issues with the older birds, a 788 down for a full month seems to have wrecked havoc on those operations, plus backend merger items still pending.

I think if Airbus delivers the range on the A321neoLR then AA will convert some of its 100 neo order, or exercise additional options, to replace the 757 on TATL and HI and probably DFW-Hawaii as well. I think they will take the A350s, possibly some configured in ULH spec, for MIA-Europe & Africa.

with the mix of 788s and 789s and the Qantas JV i think you'll see some interesting mixing of aircraft into the south Pacific between the two, with AA adding additional flying, DFW/LAX-MEL on AA789, maybe BNE as well, and DFW-AKL as a possibility, freeing Qantas to hit some other cities with their upcoming 789s.

I also think it will be interesting to see how the Dash-8 flights change as the retire, HHH probably closes and adding 25% additional seats on a 50 seat (or more for larger RJ) will change a lot of the old LUS express network around. I think you'll see more connecting of old Express cities into more AA hubs then has been done so far.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
jagraham
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:29 am

It's not just how close the A350 and 77E are in capacity - the OEW (was) virtually identical. The initial A350-900s were as follows:

The original range figure was for the original 268t MTOW which was the initial weight variant for the aircraft. At certification of the A350-900 in 2014, three additional weight variants were defined; 260t, 272t and 275t. At the time, Airbus then showed the aircraft as flying 7,750nm with 315 passengers, now in a two class layout. (From Leeham https://leehamnews.com/2016/03/30/airbu ... ge-8100nm/).

As with the A330, range increased with weight. The 8100nm variant is 280t (617000 lb), with an OWE of 145.5t (320000 lb). Versus the 77E OEW of 145t (304500 lb). Almost all of the improvement is the engine. Fuel is 156000 l (41200 gal) versus the 77E 45220 gal. So we get 8% better range for 9% less fuel. 3% is due to the 7% lower MTOW (which a 77E operator can match by reducing fuel and/or payload, since OEW is the same), and 14% is the engine and aerodynamic improvements (about 1%). Since there is no weight improvement.

Much could be said about a 77E MAX (or even better yet, a 77L / 77W MAX), but that's a different thread. The main point here is that while the A350 is an excellent plane, it's about the engine. Since it's not any bigger or any lighter (at least in a variant that outranges the 77E).
 
User avatar
XLA2008
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:53 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:43 am

I think they need to focus on sorting out their god awful customer service and actually finish refurbishing their cabins, and perhaps also take a glance and their constantly delayed Mesa flights, rather than trying to get bigger and bigger! Time to sort the house out American!
“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12322
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:39 am

sagechan wrote:
I think if Airbus delivers the range on the A321neoLR then AA will convert some of its 100 neo order, or exercise additional options, to replace the 757 on TATL and HI and probably DFW-Hawaii as well.

Doubt that AA would have much interest in running narrowbodies on DFW-Hawaii... especially as those routes tend to be cargo heavy, from what I've heard.

West coast, yeah. Texas, not so much.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
tilerchin
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:32 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:36 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
sagechan wrote:
I think if Airbus delivers the range on the A321neoLR then AA will convert some of its 100 neo order, or exercise additional options, to replace the 757 on TATL and HI and probably DFW-Hawaii as well.

Doubt that AA would have much interest in running narrowbodies on DFW-Hawaii... especially as those routes tend to be cargo heavy, from what I've heard.

West coast, yeah. Texas, not so much.



DFW-HNL will have 3x daily 767s next year
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2505
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:23 pm

tilerchin wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
sagechan wrote:
I think if Airbus delivers the range on the A321neoLR then AA will convert some of its 100 neo order, or exercise additional options, to replace the 757 on TATL and HI and probably DFW-Hawaii as well.

Doubt that AA would have much interest in running narrowbodies on DFW-Hawaii... especially as those routes tend to be cargo heavy, from what I've heard.

West coast, yeah. Texas, not so much.



DFW-HNL will have 3x daily 767s next year



Wasn't there talk of the LUS A332's taking over the DFW- Hawai flights?
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2188
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:39 pm

XLA2008 wrote:
I think they need to focus on sorting out their god awful customer service and actually finish refurbishing their cabins, and perhaps also take a glance and their constantly delayed Mesa flights, rather than trying to get bigger and bigger! Time to sort the house out American!


Agree 100% especially when it comes to customer service.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2402
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:45 pm

Is there a business case for AA to try LAX-DEL?
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1054
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:17 pm

XLA2008 wrote:
I think they need to focus on sorting out their god awful customer service and actually finish refurbishing their cabins, and perhaps also take a glance and their constantly delayed Mesa flights, rather than trying to get bigger and bigger! Time to sort the house out American!



Agree 100% on either getting Mesa to pull it together or find someone else. Planes are constantly delayed and the state of the aircraft are in pretty poor shape. It doesn't help to have a bright and shiny exterior with an interior being held together with tape...literally. I've seen tray tables taped to the seats with hand written letters on it saying to not use it.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:55 pm

PITflights wrote:
I think AA needs to start focusing on running a better operations - way to many delays and canceled flights


I agree. Some of AA's existing operational issues - while arguably self-inflicted - will likely sort themselves out in time. For example, the reliability (or almost comical lack thereof) of some of the MD80, 757 and 767 fleets becomes less of an issue with each passing month as more and more of these jets are rapidly parked and replaced with brand new and, in my experience, far more reliable, 737s and A321s. More broadly, I think some of this, though, is cultural and institutional and will take time and concerted effort to change. There has been, and continues to be, a lot of "shock to the system" for AA's operations, with merger integration, workforce/union integration, IT cut-overs still ongoing, new systems and procedures, new rules, limited cross-fleeting with more coming, etc. I think AA will get there, but it will take time for all of this to stabilize.

In the meantime, I do agree that fleet standardization should be another major focus area. I recognize that peak summer is coming to a close and thus some of the fleet work needing to be done - not just maintenance but also standardization and upgrades - can hopefully accelerate during the slower shoulder months. But in the meantime, the disparity between some fleets and others - in terms of MCE, IFE, wifi, powerports, etc., to say nothing of branding - is quite annoying, especially as cross-fleeting expands and especially given how incredibly nice the new LAA-standard aircraft (i.e., all the new 737, 32B, 77W and 788/789) deliveries are.
 
777klm
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:23 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:20 pm

panam330 wrote:
A seasonal ORD-AMS announcement is just around the corner. Should start in the spring, 757-200 equipment. ORD-DUS will cease.

Great news. However, given the competitors on the route (KL and UA), wouldn't DFW-AMS make more sense?
Next flight: AMS - BKK
 
newburg1
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:37 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:39 pm

Some of the Regional partners would like more candor with the future. Air Wisconsin in particular is always the stepchild in the announcements about flying, routes and equipment. East Shore Aviation is more secretive than the CIA about what is going on. I used to work for them and I feel for the good people I used to work with
 
sagechan
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:30 am

LAX772LR wrote:
sagechan wrote:
I think if Airbus delivers the range on the A321neoLR then AA will convert some of its 100 neo order, or exercise additional options, to replace the 757 on TATL and HI and probably DFW-Hawaii as well.

Doubt that AA would have much interest in running narrowbodies on DFW-Hawaii... especially as those routes tend to be cargo heavy, from what I've heard.

West coast, yeah. Texas, not so much.


I have no idea what the cargo revenue is, but I would've guessed that LAX did more cargo than DFW to HI before the A321's took over those flights. Hawaii isn't a premium destination, if a narrowbody can do it, and the cargo isn't enough to justify the bigger lift of a widebody (it may very well be, like i said I don't know) then I could see HP/US/AA management putting the narrowbody on it if they have it. The other factor would be do you you split the theoretical 321neoLR subfleet into an international & hawaii (higher Y density) fleets?
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
rta
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:55 am

PITflights wrote:
I think AA needs to start focusing on running a better operations - way to many delays and canceled flights


100%. I and many people I know have had way too many headaches with them in the recent past. Its ridiculous how reliably I can expect to get screwed by their ops.

Aside from typical summer weather, I'm really curious as to what is causing these problems... because they're not all weather related. Overall I thought they were doing great merger-wise (particularly with the reservation cutover), but now I have second thoughts.
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:44 pm

AA needs to figure out its own business model. Doug Parker moved up way too quickly for his own good.

1. They want to be a high-end legacy carrier but are offering $39 fares in many key markets. AA has been so focused on competing with Spirit in DFW for example, that the other legacy airlines are taking market share in what used to be huge AA markets. RDU would be the perfect example.

2. You have to never ending list of fleet types. Instead of shrinking the 767 fleet, just replace it with all the wide bodies you're saying you have too many of.

3. Way too many regional partners. Mesa and Trans States need to go.

4. All domestic growth is through Eagle. Management keeps saying "we're adding new routes!" No, Eagle is adding new routes.

5. Employee morale sucks. AA does not do a good job communicating with their employees and there is still two different work groups for airport agents months after it was supposed to be complete. This then gets put on passengers directly.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 L1011 MD80 SF340 AvGeek Superstore
 
OB1504
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:10 am

rajincajun01 wrote:
AA needs to figure out its own business model. Doug Parker moved up way too quickly for his own good.

1. They want to be a high-end legacy carrier but are offering $39 fares in many key markets. AA has been so focused on competing with Spirit in DFW for example, that the other legacy airlines are taking market share in what used to be huge AA markets. RDU would be the perfect example.

2. You have to never ending list of fleet types. Instead of shrinking the 767 fleet, just replace it with all the wide bodies you're saying you have too many of.

3. Way too many regional partners. Mesa and Trans States need to go.

4. All domestic growth is through Eagle. Management keeps saying "we're adding new routes!" No, Eagle is adding new routes.

5. Employee morale sucks. AA does not do a good job communicating with their employees and there is still two different work groups for airport agents months after it was supposed to be complete. This then gets put on passengers directly.


1. Spirit has also been taking market share from AA and has grown too large to ignore, hence the price matching.

2. When did they say they have too many widebodies? Too many fleet types is not necessarily a bad thing if the fleets are big enough to achieve economies of scale, and it makes it easier to right-size aircraft to a route. DL has more widebody types than AA (763, 764, 332, 333, 77E, 77L, 744 vs. 763, 788, 332, 333, 77E, 77W) and they're doing pretty good.

3. Because of service quality or just because there are "too many"?

4. Valid point.

5. Don't they have until December to integrate the agent workgroups?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:42 am

DL is not flying the 787-8, they have deferred the order several times,
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:01 am

OB1504 wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:
AA needs to figure out its own business model. Doug Parker moved up way too quickly for his own good.

1. They want to be a high-end legacy carrier but are offering $39 fares in many key markets. AA has been so focused on competing with Spirit in DFW for example, that the other legacy airlines are taking market share in what used to be huge AA markets. RDU would be the perfect example.

2. You have to never ending list of fleet types. Instead of shrinking the 767 fleet, just replace it with all the wide bodies you're saying you have too many of.

3. Way too many regional partners. Mesa and Trans States need to go.

4. All domestic growth is through Eagle. Management keeps saying "we're adding new routes!" No, Eagle is adding new routes.

5. Employee morale sucks. AA does not do a good job communicating with their employees and there is still two different work groups for airport agents months after it was supposed to be complete. This then gets put on passengers directly.


1. Spirit has also been taking market share from AA and has grown too large to ignore, hence the price matching.

2. When did they say they have too many widebodies? Too many fleet types is not necessarily a bad thing if the fleets are big enough to achieve economies of scale, and it makes it easier to right-size aircraft to a route. DL has more widebody types than AA (763, 764, 332, 333, 77E, 77L, 744 vs. 763, 788, 332, 333, 77E, 77W) and they're doing pretty good.

3. Because of service quality or just because there are "too many"?

4. Valid point.

5. Don't they have until December to integrate the agent workgroups?



1. Spirit is a completely different product. How many repeat passengers do they truly have?

2. Doug Parker has stated this because of the US and AA orders placed pre-merger. They also deferred A350 deliveries recently. The global slowdown for demand has only amplified this.

3. Quality primarily. There are too many regionals (several wholly owned by AA) who do not offer a consistent product.

5. I do not know the deadline. Originally their agents were told March 2016. Then June. Now it's mid-October for the planned single group.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 L1011 MD80 SF340 AvGeek Superstore
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5332
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: What's next for American Airlines

Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:34 am

Whats next for AA? Hopefully they start working on the balance sheet, get the contracts with the mechanics and ramp done and come up with a consistent product.
rajincajun01 wrote:
AA needs to figure out its own business model. Doug Parker moved up way too quickly for his own good.

1. They want to be a high-end legacy carrier but are offering $39 fares in many key markets. AA has been so focused on competing with Spirit in DFW for example, that the other legacy airlines are taking market share in what used to be huge AA markets. RDU would be the perfect example.

2. You have to never ending list of fleet types. Instead of shrinking the 767 fleet, just replace it with all the wide bodies you're saying you have too many of.

3. Way too many regional partners. Mesa and Trans States need to go.

4. All domestic growth is through Eagle. Management keeps saying "we're adding new routes!" No, Eagle is adding new routes.

5. Employee morale sucks. AA does not do a good job communicating with their employees and there is still two different work groups for airport agents months after it was supposed to be complete. This then gets put on passengers directly.

debt is at 22-23 billion.... What the hell lets buy even more airplanes! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Boof02671 wrote:
DL is not flying the 787-8, they have deferred the order several times,

by several you mean one time.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos