Legend757
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Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:34 pm

While I don't post frequently, I have been reading these forums for over a decade. Over that time, I've seen a wide array of opinions regarding the longevity of DL's SLC hub. Would it survive the 2005 bankruptcy? Would it survive the DL/NW merger? Would it survive the recession? Would it survive DL's SEA, and to a lesser extent, LAX build up? In each of these cases, SLC withstood/withstands undoubtedly as a strong DL hub, though the hub has seen its fair share of adjustments over the past decade.

Available DL Seats:
2006: 9.7M
2008: 9.0M
2010: 9.3M
2012: 8.4M
2014: 8.6M
2016: 9.3M (solid increase since 2012)

Today, the outlook for the SLC hub continues to appears bright. In the past few years, there has been a positive DL build up at SLC with some cutbacks:

Markets that have returned- YYZ, MEX, RDU, CLT, MIA, DSM, ASE
New Markets- AMS, LHR
Dropped Markets- MEM, FAR, MDW, NRT (awhile ago)
Notable Upgauge or Freq. Increase- HNL, DEN, AUS, SAT, ABQ, MCO, BOS, BNA, CUN, SEA, PDX, LAX, LGB, BIL, BZN, MSO, FCA, PSC, SJC..
Notable Downgauge or Freq. Decrease- ANC, IND, RAP

Other airlines have also shown notable interest in SLC over the past few years as well. Examples include:

New/Returning Airlines- AC-YYZ, KL-AMS, AS-build up
New/Returning Markets- B6-MCO/BOS, UA-EWR, WN-DAL/SJC/HOU, AA-MIA, F9-ORD/PHX/ATL/LAS
Dropped Markets- AS-LAS, UA-IAD (awhile ago), WN-SEA/PDX/GEG/RNO/ABQ

I don't think DL is done with adding and re-adding in SLC either, especially when the new terminal opens and more gate space is available.

Potential Re-added Mainline Markets- TPA, BDL, OGG, CMH, PIT, CLE, BHM, MKE (many of these I see likely when the CS100 enters the fleet)
Potential Re-added Regional Markets- SBA, SBP, BIS, FSD, XNA, LIT, ELP, YEG (some of these are tricky with reduction of 50-seaters)

Wish List Adds (for what it's worth)-
DL-SJU (seasonal)
Return of Asia service (possibly JL, KE)
FI-KEF(seasonal)
HA-HNL

I remember reading comments on a.net that once DL started bringing back markets like the ones listed above, they would be more confident in DL's commitment to SLC. Now that they have brought many back and have grown considerably over the last 4 to 5 years, with an impressive SLC-Europe build up and support of new terminal redevelopment, I wonder if their confidence is also returning. That said, I am fully aware that very few industries are as dynamic as the airline industry and everything could change overnight. For now, however, it would appear SLC remains an important and strategic western hub for DL.
Last edited by Legend757 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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enilria
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:44 pm

I've been worried that the growth of SEA and LAX will hurt SLC, but we've actually seen the Montana markets roll back from SEA. So, I'm less worried than before. I think at this size SEA is not a threat to SLC.

If and when DL gets a ton more SEA gates, that could change things.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:54 pm

Delta on SLC-BNA has gone from the occasional 320 to CR9. It's been on the latter for quite awhile.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:56 pm

A good analogy might be SLC is to DEN what CLT is to ATL.

SLC is the best non-DEN alternative Mountain West (MW) hub as CLT is the best non-ATL hub for the Southeast (SE). While the population density in the SE is much higher than the MW, the functionality of the smaller hubs serve a network purpose for the hubbing carriers that would most likely nonviable at any other location. I think the long term prospects for SLC and CLT are good to excellent.

With no big legacy mergers on the horizon the current status of the remaining hubs is pretty much secure.

The biggest threat to DL's SLC hub was probably WN, which pre-DEN build up was using SLC as MW focus city to connect various points on the system. WN's SLC operation is much less than it was at it's peak so unless NK decides to invade SLC or something equally unlikely, DL and SLC will be married for quite some time.
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
Legend757
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:02 pm

MaxxFlyer wrote:
Delta on SLC-BNA has gone from the occasional 320 to CR9. It's been on the latter for quite awhile.


BNA returns to daily 319 service in October. This really was a no brainer for DL I feel. SLC-BNA has consistently had mid to high 90% LFs on the CR9. Yes, yes. LF doesn't mean everything. A nice up-gauge nonetheless.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:09 pm

Legend757 wrote:
MaxxFlyer wrote:
Delta on SLC-BNA has gone from the occasional 320 to CR9. It's been on the latter for quite awhile.


BNA returns to daily 319 service in October. This really was a no brainer for DL I feel. SLC-BNA has consistently had mid to high 90% LFs on the CR9. Yes, yes. LF doesn't mean everything. A nice up-gauge nonetheless.


Thanks. I fly via SLC regularly. Rarely an empty seat on the CR9.
 
Seat1F
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:11 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
With no big legacy mergers on the horizon the current status of the remaining hubs is pretty much secure.


SLC is safe. There will be nominal additions/reductions, but overall, they are safe.

As far as "the remaining hubs" of legacy carriers being "safe", I beg to differ. I still believe that AA has some trimming to do. I can see both CLT and PHX ending up being smaller than they are today. That may take several more years to come to fruition however. Anyway, that is a topic for a different thread.
Last edited by Seat1F on Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:13 pm

I could probably see DL restarting SLC-NRT once they take delivery of their A350's. That is, unless they close their NRT hub,.
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airzona11
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:15 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
A good analogy might be SLC is to DEN what CLT is to ATL.

SLC is the best non-DEN alternative Mountain West (MW) hub as CLT is the best non-ATL hub for the Southeast (SE). While the population density in the SE is much higher than the MW, the functionality of the smaller hubs serve a network purpose for the hubbing carriers that would most likely nonviable at any other location. I think the long term prospects for SLC and CLT are good to excellent.

With no big legacy mergers on the horizon the current status of the remaining hubs is pretty much secure.

The biggest threat to DL's SLC hub was probably WN, which pre-DEN build up was using SLC as MW focus city to connect various points on the system. WN's SLC operation is much less than it was at it's peak so unless NK decides to invade SLC or something equally unlikely, DL and SLC will be married for quite some time.


Great points!

SLC is in a good place geographically. What is also not talked a lot about on here is the market of SLC and the surrounding areas. The economy is growing and diversifying, great place to live and do business. All of these factors make it a great hub location.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:49 pm

Seat1F wrote:

OzarkD9S wrote:
With no big legacy mergers on the horizon the current status of the remaining hubs is pretty much secure.


SLC is safe. There will be nominal additions/reductions, but overall, they are safe.

As far as "the remaining hubs" of legacy carriers being "safe", I beg to differ. I still believe that AA has some trimming to do. I can see both CLT and PHX ending up being smaller than they are today. That may take several more years to come to fruition however. Anyway, that is a topic for a different thread.


I agree with you to an extent regarding PHX, some structural changes most likely but proper hub status remaining as long as Doug is running the show. There really is no good alternative for CLT, but again some right-sizing will most likely happen, mostly on the international side of things.
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
amcnd
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:53 pm

AS seems to be building up SLC slowly.. If they had more gates i would bet on them doubling there ops there.. Just South of SLC right smack in the middle of KSLC and KPVU is "silicon slope" new area with so many tech companies and the NSA... Its only half what its going to be. Housing market there is nuts right now..
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:15 am

Didn't know that DL flew SLC/MIA.
 
michman
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:13 am

amcnd wrote:
AS seems to be building up SLC slowly.. If they had more gates i would bet on them doubling there ops there.. Just South of SLC right smack in the middle of KSLC and KPVU is "silicon slope" new area with so many tech companies and the NSA... Its only half what its going to be. Housing market there is nuts right now..


They are dropping SLC-LAS. I very much doubt they have any grand plans for SLC.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:25 am

The aviation landscape in the US does lend itself to maintaining SLC as an important pillar in the network.

All hubs can have their cycles, but even with the build up in other markets, the existing hub structure is becoming more and more optimised. Some may see their role change in some ways, but I really can't see huge steps taken that would see SLC lose it's place in DL's strategy.
 
Vctony
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:44 am

Seat1F wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
With no big legacy mergers on the horizon the current status of the remaining hubs is pretty much secure.


SLC is safe. There will be nominal additions/reductions, but overall, they are safe.

As far as "the remaining hubs" of legacy carriers being "safe", I beg to differ. I still believe that AA has some trimming to do. I can see both CLT and PHX ending up being smaller than they are today. That may take several more years to come to fruition however. Anyway, that is a topic for a different thread.


I beg to differ about PHX.

It's not a large hub already (only 300 daily departures). In addition, it's 2/3 mainline. Most of the "fat" has already been trimmed when US was running the show. AA has actually added some RJ flying that didn't exist before.

The argument about WN being across the terminal also doesn't hold a lot of merit. AA deals with large WN stations in Chicago and Dallas (and to an extent in Washington, DC as well). The Arizona economy is booming right now (for the 1st time since the recession) and especially in the tech industry. If AA downsizes, I'd expect DL, UA, and the ULCCs to pick up a lot of the slack (which could be worse for AA in the long term). AA also has a large and loyal FF base in PHX.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:15 am

Vctony wrote:
I beg to differ about PHX.

It's not a large hub already (only 300 daily departures). In addition, it's 2/3 mainline. Most of the "fat" has already been trimmed when US was running the show.

Yes, but it's also the most redundant hub in route structure and traffic flows; and considering that its competitors in that regard are the combination of DFW+LAX, that makes it rather vulnerable.

Might be wise to let it weather a major market downturn in the merged carrier, before taking a stand on just how longterm viable it is in its current state.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
usflyer123
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:23 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Vctony wrote:
I beg to differ about PHX.

It's not a large hub already (only 300 daily departures). In addition, it's 2/3 mainline. Most of the "fat" has already been trimmed when US was running the show.

Yes, but it's also the most redundant hub in route structure and traffic flows; and considering that its competitors in that regard are the combination of DFW+LAX, that makes it rather vulnerable.

Might be wise to let it weather a major market downturn in the merged carrier, before taking a stand on just how longterm viable it is in its current state.


this is a big and profitable hub and its important for california, west coast and mexico.
also AA is upgauging capacity on LGB and on ONT which becomes only mainline and they are adding SGU and EGE.
dosent seem like its in danger...
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:44 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
A good analogy might be SLC is to DEN what CLT is to ATL.

SLC is the best non-DEN alternative Mountain West (MW) hub as CLT is the best non-ATL hub for the Southeast (SE). While the population density in the SE is much higher than the MW, the functionality of the smaller hubs serve a network purpose for the hubbing carriers that would most likely nonviable at any other location. I think the long term prospects for SLC and CLT are good to excellent.

With no big legacy mergers on the horizon the current status of the remaining hubs is pretty much secure.

The biggest threat to DL's SLC hub was probably WN, which pre-DEN build up was using SLC as MW focus city to connect various points on the system. WN's SLC operation is much less than it was at it's peak so unless NK decides to invade SLC or something equally unlikely, DL and SLC will be married for quite some time.


Correct. DL has around 80% of market share at SLC which translates to extreme profit in a small market. DL can run 757s in the late bank to MCO/SEA/LAX/SFO - pretty impressive.
 
777PHX
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:43 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Vctony wrote:
I beg to differ about PHX.

It's not a large hub already (only 300 daily departures). In addition, it's 2/3 mainline. Most of the "fat" has already been trimmed when US was running the show.

Yes, but it's also the most redundant hub in route structure and traffic flows; and considering that its competitors in that regard are the combination of DFW+LAX, that makes it rather vulnerable.


LAX doesn't have the space to be the domestic connection hub that PHX is and DFW is far too east to be a western regional hub.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:37 pm

I'd like to see DL restore TPA-SLC. Once upon a time, I was able to fly OGG-SLC-TPA. A Tampa connection to the west seems to me an obvious route that DL should be flying.
 
777PHX
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:08 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
I'd like to see DL restore TPA-SLC. Once upon a time, I was able to fly OGG-SLC-TPA. A Tampa connection to the west seems to me an obvious route that DL should be flying.


DL already flies TPA-LAX. You can just as easily fly OGG-LAX-TPA today.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:43 pm

Legend757 wrote:
While I don't post frequently, I have been reading these forums for over a decade. Over that time, I've seen a wide array of opinions regarding the longevity of DL's SLC hub. Would it survive the 2005 bankruptcy? Would it survive the DL/NW merger? Would it survive the recession? Would it survive DL's SEA, and to a lesser extent, LAX build up? In each of these cases, SLC withstood/withstands undoubtedly as a strong DL hub, though the hub has seen its fair share of adjustments over the past decade.

Available DL Seats:
2006: 9.7M
2008: 9.0M
2010: 9.3M
2012: 8.4M
2014: 8.6M
2016: 9.3M (solid increase since 2012)

Today, the outlook for the SLC hub continues to appears bright. In the past few years, there has been a positive DL build up at SLC with some cutbacks:

Markets that have returned- YYZ, MEX, RDU, CLT, MIA, DSM, ASE
New Markets- AMS, LHR
Dropped Markets- MEM, FAR, MDW, NRT (awhile ago)
Notable Upgauge or Freq. Increase- HNL, DEN, AUS, SAT, ABQ, MCO, BOS, BNA, CUN, SEA, PDX, LAX, LGB, BIL, BZN, MSO, FCA, PSC, SJC..
Notable Downgauge or Freq. Decrease- ANC, IND, RAP

Other airlines have also shown notable interest in SLC over the past few years as well. Examples include:

New/Returning Airlines- AC-YYZ, KL-AMS, AS-build up
New/Returning Markets- B6-MCO/BOS, UA-EWR, WN-DAL/SJC/HOU, AA-MIA, F9-ORD/PHX/ATL/LAS
Dropped Markets- AS-LAS, UA-IAD (awhile ago), WN-SEA/PDX/GEG/RNO/ABQ

I don't think DL is done with adding and re-adding in SLC either, especially when the new terminal opens and more gate space is available.

Potential Re-added Mainline Markets- TPA, BDL, OGG, CMH, PIT, CLE, BHM, MKE (many of these I see likely when the CS100 enters the fleet)
Potential Re-added Regional Markets- SBA, SBP, BIS, FSD, XNA, LIT, ELP, YEG (some of these are tricky with reduction of 50-seaters)

Wish List Adds (for what it's worth)-
DL-SJU (seasonal)
Return of Asia service (possibly JL, KE)
FI-KEF(seasonal)
HA-HNL

I remember reading comments on a.net that once DL started bringing back markets like the ones listed above, they would be more confident in DL's commitment to SLC. Now that they have brought many back and have grown considerably over the last 4 to 5 years, with an impressive SLC-Europe build up and support of new terminal redevelopment, I wonder if their confidence is also returning. That said, I am fully aware that very few industries are as dynamic as the airline industry and everything could change overnight. For now, however, it would appear SLC remains an important and strategic western hub for DL.


Most of the routes you listed I can see coming back at some point.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:29 am

usflyer123 wrote:
this is a big and profitable hub and its important for california, west coast and mexico.

It is *now*.

But as clearly said, ya might want to "let it weather a market downturn," because historically, geographically redundant hubs tend to get the short end of the stick during such, almost every time.


777PHX wrote:
LAX doesn't have the space to be the domestic connection hub

And yet, they're doing plenty of exactly that, and plan to do even more, so.....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:41 am

777PHX wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
I'd like to see DL restore TPA-SLC. Once upon a time, I was able to fly OGG-SLC-TPA. A Tampa connection to the west seems to me an obvious route that DL should be flying.


DL already flies TPA-LAX. You can just as easily fly OGG-LAX-TPA today.


Thank you for stating the obvious. Please see my second sentence for what I was trying to convey.
 
grbauc
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:22 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Vctony wrote:
I beg to differ about PHX.

It's not a large hub already (only 300 daily departures). In addition, it's 2/3 mainline. Most of the "fat" has already been trimmed when US was running the show.

Yes, but it's also the most redundant hub in route structure and traffic flows; and considering that its competitors in that regard are the combination of DFW+LAX, that makes it rather vulnerable.

Might be wise to let it weather a major market downturn in the merged carrier, before taking a stand on just how longterm viable it is in its current state.


Oh Jeez really? I don't think there are to many hubs that wouldn't get some trimming in a recession. Are we ok to take that long term stand?
DFW LAX don't cover the western US, LAX doesn't work for a good amount of the southern cal area. PHX is fine. Taking a long term stand on PHX 5-10 yrs in aviation is long term and if AA were to give away valuable gates they would be crazy. It's not the early 2000's there are 4 major players now and not a lot of available growth area's. Now CLT could see some trimming but IMOP It plays a major roll and that won't change.
Last edited by grbauc on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
grbauc
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:51 am

LAX772LR wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
this is a big and profitable hub and its important for california, west coast and mexico.

It is *now*.

But as clearly said, ya might want to "let it weather a market downturn," because historically, geographically redundant hubs tend to get the short end of the stick during such, almost every time.

All hubs in a Downturn will take adjustment. That's really going on a limb.


777PHX wrote:
LAX doesn't have the space to be the domestic connection hub

And yet, they're doing plenty of exactly that, and plan to do even more, so.....


No not true. LAX is not now becoming a Connecting hub its a O/D and Trans pacific gate way hub. PHX is the western US connection hub.
 
777PHX
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:20 am

11725Flyer wrote:
777PHX wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
I'd like to see DL restore TPA-SLC. Once upon a time, I was able to fly OGG-SLC-TPA. A Tampa connection to the west seems to me an obvious route that DL should be flying.


DL already flies TPA-LAX. You can just as easily fly OGG-LAX-TPA today.


Thank you for stating the obvious. Please see my second sentence for what I was trying to convey.


You're whining about a DL connection to the west when you clearly didn't realize DL already flew to LAX(because it's a newer route) with direct connectivity to OGG. Don't get mad at me because you didn't know what you were talking about. Connecting through LAX is also a 200 mile shorter routing vs SLC.

LAX772LR wrote:
And yet, they're doing plenty of exactly that, and plan to do even more, so.....
.

Uh...no. LAX domestic traffic is by and large predicated on O&D, not connections. AA isn't going to waste valuable real estate in LAX on western connections when they can just funnel that traffic through PHX.

grbauc wrote:
No not true. LAX is not now becoming a Connecting hub its a O/D and Trans pacific gate way hub. PHX is the western US connection hub.


I agree that it's a trans-pac gateway, but that's not what I said. Feel free to go back and read what I wrote and notice the usage of "domestic".
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:30 am

grbauc wrote:
Oh Jeez really? I don't think there are to many hubs that wouldn't get some trimming in a recession. Are we ok to take that long term stand?

I'm not talking about "some trimming"... what geographically redundant hub didn't eventually end up getting reduced to a shell of its former self after a major market shock or two? PIT, CVG, CLE, RDU, BNA, STL, MEM, [email protected], etc? Nope.



grbauc wrote:
No not true. LAX is not now becoming a Connecting hub its a O/D and Trans pacific gate way hub.

777PHX wrote:
Uh...no. LAX domestic traffic is by and large predicated on O&D, not connections.

Do note that no one said anything about it being primarily connection. As the world's busiest O&D airport, of course ops here are going to be predicated primarily on originating traffic-- but that's not going to stop tons of connections from being offered, which again, AA does here every day.

There's not that many significant traffic flows that AA will not freely offer to anyone on the west coast or mountain midwest via LAX. There's essentially none, when those flows are combined with the power of DFW.

PHX is handy, but barring a few regional destinations, redundant. And hubs like that have historically suffered, badly, during large downturns.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Vctony
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Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:50 am

LAX772LR wrote:
grbauc wrote:
Oh Jeez really? I don't think there are to many hubs that wouldn't get some trimming in a recession. Are we ok to take that long term stand?

I'm not talking about "some trimming"... what geographically redundant hub didn't eventually end up getting reduced to a shell of its former self after a major market shock or two? PIT, CVG, CLE, RDU, BNA, STL, MEM, [email protected], etc? Nope.



grbauc wrote:
No not true. LAX is not now becoming a Connecting hub its a O/D and Trans pacific gate way hub.

777PHX wrote:
Uh...no. LAX domestic traffic is by and large predicated on O&D, not connections.

Do note that no one said anything about it being primarily connection. As the world's busiest O&D airport, of course ops here are going to be predicated primarily on originating traffic-- but that's not going to stop tons of connections from being offered, which again, AA does here every day.

There's not that many significant traffic flows that AA will not freely offer to anyone on the west coast or mountain midwest via LAX. There's essentially none, when those flows are combined with the power of DFW.

PHX is handy, but barring a few regional destinations, redundant. And hubs like that have historically suffered, badly, during large downturns.


PHX is different from the other hubs that it has a larger O/D base than PIT, CVG, CLE, RDU, BNA, STL, or MEM. In fact, it has a larger O/D base than CLT.

Also, as I've said before, the PHX operation is 2/3 mainline. Many of the other hubs that were closed were 50/50 mainline to regional or even majority regional. DSM, BOI, and GEG get mainline out of PHX.

The economy (and population) in the PHX area is growing significantly. AA has grown its market share in PHX over the past few years (WN used to be the #1 O/D carrier and now AA has that title).

The facilities that AA operates are fairly mature (26 years old) and aren't in need of significant upgrades. AA has plenty of gate space and an airport authority that will do whatever it wants to accommodate AA. Also, the airport isn't extremely delay prone. There are only a dozen or so days out of the year where weather really affects the operation all that much.

PHX isn't much more redundant than SLC when one thinks about it. Using your logic, much of DL's SLC operations could be handled by LAX, MSP, and SEA. Yet, nobody disputes the value of SLC. The same with UA at DEN. Much of UA at DEN could be accomplished via LAX, IAH, or SFO yet DEN remains a key part of UA's system and UA is growing it DESPITE the fact that WN has grown exponentially there over the past 10 years and F9 has become a ULCC.

I fail to see why PHX is redundant but DEN and SLC aren't. They all are, in some way.
 
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11725Flyer
Posts: 1256
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:06 pm

777PHX wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
777PHX wrote:

DL already flies TPA-LAX. You can just as easily fly OGG-LAX-TPA today.


Thank you for stating the obvious. Please see my second sentence for what I was trying to convey.


You're whining about a DL connection to the west when you clearly didn't realize DL already flew to LAX(because it's a newer route) with direct connectivity to OGG. Don't get mad at me because you didn't know what you were talking about. Connecting through LAX is also a 200 mile shorter routing vs SLC.

LAX772LR wrote:
And yet, they're doing plenty of exactly that, and plan to do even more, so.....
.

Uh...no. LAX domestic traffic is by and large predicated on O&D, not connections. AA isn't going to waste valuable real estate in LAX on western connections when they can just funnel that traffic through PHX.

grbauc wrote:
No not true. LAX is not now becoming a Connecting hub its a O/D and Trans pacific gate way hub. PHX is the western US connection hub.


I agree that it's a trans-pac gateway, but that's not what I said. Feel free to go back and read what I wrote and notice the usage of "domestic".


Oy. DL TPA-LAX is not a "newer"route. So, look it up...can I get TPA-LAX-FAT right now? No. You're missing the point. Completely. Read my second sentence again. And then again. Maybe you'll get it, but I doubt it.
 
phxtravelboy
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:42 am

Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:51 pm

I've learned to just ignore what LAX772LR posts as it's always crap. He just loves to see his name on this blog on a daily basis; his posts are always very negative without any substance so best to ignore what he posts and move on.
 
WN732
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:12 pm

I've been wanting ELP to get reinstated for a long time. There's no way to get to ELP from the west coast on DL.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12183
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Longevity of DL's SLC Hub

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:30 pm

WN732 wrote:
There's no way to get to ELP from the west coast on DL.

You can, but you'd just have to piece it together yourself.

Something like DL369+DL2293 (LAX-ATL-ELP, with a 3hr layover).

Not competitive with other options, but if sticking with preferred carrier is a must, then you can throw this together on Google or something.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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