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787fan8
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Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:15 pm

Once they fix their financial problems, will AF add a new US destination? And if so, which one do you think they would add?
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ANA787
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:20 pm

SEA (takeover from DL) or PDX are my guess.
 
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STT757
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:23 pm

Hopefully back to EWR, they served EWR for 25 years before turning it over to DL.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:39 pm

ANA787 wrote:
SEA (takeover from DL) or PDX are my guess.


AF started the SEA-CDG route and later turned it over to DL. I flew that flight once and was very impressed with AF in coach.

Doesn't the AF/DL agreement call for splitting US-CDG seats 50/50? That means it's probably unlikely AF will take over SEA or SLC, or fly PDX if it's started.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:58 pm

New Orleans!
 
CDG777FAN
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:28 pm

They have already a pretty decent coverage of the US with BOS, JFK, IAD, ATL, MIA, IAH, LAX and SFO.
MSY would be a great addition to the network along with ORD year-round.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:28 pm

With the problems AF is having right now I don't see them adding any new U.S. service until later in 2017. They need to settle down for a bit.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
msycajun
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:07 pm

As others have mentioned the labor and other issues are more pressing, but a delegation from AF visited MSY not long ago, so we're holding out hope that we'll see them one day. DL is the strongest network airline here, so a link to Europe would be natural, especially with the new terminal coming.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:08 pm

MSY seems likely with an A332 I think?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:16 pm

The back and forth stuff with Delta hardly seems worth mentioning. Anything that's flown by DL with a 767 that could benefit from upgauging is a candidate for an AF A330 - and vice versa.

Back to DFW?
 
AAIL86
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The back and forth stuff with Delta hardly seems worth mentioning. Anything that's flown by DL with a 767 that could benefit from upgauging is a candidate for an AF A330 - and vice versa.

Back to DFW?



Don't think we'll see DFW as KL just exited that market.Maybe MSY?

Also, several people have mentioned AF exiting markets taken over by Delta, which really isn't the case considering AF/KL/DL share all revenues on TATL... its simply a matter of which airplane in that group makes sense to fly the route.
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
centrex
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:33 pm

Denver is a large market, larger O&D than both FRA and MUC which have direct flights. Of course no partner for AF in DEN but still possible
 
klakzky123
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:47 pm

AF needs to get itself sorted out but assuming they do, I could see them try a seasonal route to MSY or a seasonal route to SEA or SLC if there's a need (similar to what they do in MSP today).
 
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OA412
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:58 pm

centrex wrote:
Denver is a large market, larger O&D than both FRA and MUC which have direct flights. Of course no partner for AF in DEN but still possible

DEN would've been my guess as well some years ago, though I'm not quite sure that's still true with the SLC flight in place. I think if it was within range of a 752, DL/AF would add a DEN-CDG flight, but I don't see it happening at this point.
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Nola
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:03 pm

Would MSY really be likely with DL MSY-ATL service almost hourly and multiple ATL-CDG flights every day?

Everything I've read indicated that the airport was making a big push for BA to fly to LHR. Whether Brexit has or will eliminate that possibility, I don't know.

I guess if the Condor flight goes well, MSY could see some increased international interest, so maybe a trial run of MSY-CDG in 2018 (for the tricentennial) would make sense, but I still can't figure how DL would look favorably on it.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:08 pm

MCO restart maybe?
Last edited by 787fan8 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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maxbaby01
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:08 pm

It would be nice if they started year-round service from MSP instead of the summer only.
 
usflyer123
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:09 pm

i hope it would be MSY, New Orleans could really use a flight to europe(exept the Condor flight).
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:14 pm

I'm the biggest MSY fan out there.... but I'd eat my underwear if we saw AF there any time soon. Very unlikely to happen IMO. This despite DL's impending attempt back in 2001.

AF couldn't even make MCO work, and the UK O&D from MSY is almost double the French O&D (as per 2013). We'll probably see BA at MSY longggg before AF.

Combine that with the practically nonexistent Francophone social connection (try speaking French to anyone in SE Louisiana under age 30, or heck, getting them to show you where France is on a map), and it seems very unlikely.

DU maybe. AF, sincerely doubt.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ubeema
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:37 pm

CDG777FAN wrote:
They have already a pretty decent coverage of the US with BOS, JFK, IAD, ATL, MIA, IAH, LAX and SFO.
MSY would be a great addition to the network along with ORD year-round.


Could be seasonal but add in DTW and MSP
 
jbpdx
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:18 pm

On therouteshop.com, Paris airports (CDG and ORY) list these U.S. airports for nonstop routes sought: DEN, PDX, PHX, SAN.
^
 
gregn21
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 pm

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see SJC at this point.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:26 pm

Much as I would like to put STL in the ring...No Euro service at all. Just don't see it happening.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:30 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
I'm the biggest MSY fan out there.... but I'd eat my underwear if we saw AF there any time soon. Very unlikely to happen IMO. This despite DL's impending attempt back in 2001.

AF couldn't even make MCO work, and the UK O&D from MSY is almost double the French O&D (as per 2013). We'll probably see BA at MSY longggg before AF.

Combine that with the practically nonexistent Francophone social connection (try speaking French to anyone in SE Louisiana under age 30, or heck, getting them to show you where France is on a map), and it seems very unlikely.

DU maybe. AF, sincerely doubt.


I think it's more like, try speaking French to anyone in Louisiana under age 70. When I was in Cajun country (SW Louisiana, not SE) only the very older people still knew how to speak French. While there are historical ties between France and Louisiana, as you said, the connection is non-existent now.

That's similar to the oft repeated A.net myth that since company ABC has offices in MNO and XYZ, therefor there must be demand for a daily international flight MNO-XYZ.

I agree that PDX-CDG isn't out of the question, but more likely it will be DL. Could AF maybe try SAN or SJC? What about PHX?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:46 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I think it's more like, try speaking French to anyone in Louisiana under age 70. When I was in Cajun country (SW Louisiana, not SE) only the very older people still knew how to speak French.

I wouldn't say that's fair. You go to Vermillion, Abbeville, and a slew of other places in the SW, you'll get along in French (with adults younger than middle age) just fine.

The southeast of the state, on the other hand, where such a flight would actually land? No chance.
NOLA, contrary to popular belief, is more of a Creole city. Opposite side of the state from the Cajuns
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:13 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
I'm the biggest MSY fan out there.... but I'd eat my underwear if we saw AF there any time soon. Very unlikely to happen IMO. This despite DL's impending attempt back in 2001.

AF couldn't even make MCO work, and the UK O&D from MSY is almost double the French O&D (as per 2013). We'll probably see BA at MSY longggg before AF.

Combine that with the practically nonexistent Francophone social connection (try speaking French to anyone in SE Louisiana under age 30, or heck, getting them to show you where France is on a map), and it seems very unlikely.

DU maybe. AF, sincerely doubt.


While I agree that we'll probably see an additional leisure open up shop before AF, I think that reflects on AF more than MSY. A few months ago we would have laughed someone off the board if they had suggested MSY's first route to Europe would be to FRA, a market that's a distant fifth behind LHR, CDG, AMS and FCO. The fact is any flight to Europe from a mid-sized market will depend mostly on connections and the O&D is the icing on the cake, the exception possibly being some services to LHR. When you add all of the traffic to Africa, the Middle East/India and the smaller Euro markets, that's is a lot of people who currently have to double-connect.
 
stlgph
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:46 pm

How about resumption of O'Hare year around, first.
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aviationaware
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:56 pm

787fan8 wrote:
Once they fix their financial problems


Please hang up and dial again.
 
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:59 pm

msycajun wrote:
I think that reflects on AF more than MSY.

Agree completely.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:05 am

LAX772LR wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I think it's more like, try speaking French to anyone in Louisiana under age 70. When I was in Cajun country (SW Louisiana, not SE) only the very older people still knew how to speak French.

I wouldn't say that's fair. You go to Vermillion, Abbeville, and a slew of other places in the SW, you'll get along in French (with adults younger than middle age) just fine.

The southeast of the state, on the other hand, where such a flight would actually land? No chance.
NOLA, contrary to popular belief, is more of a Creole city. Opposite side of the state from the Cajuns


I've been to Abbeville several times. My ex-GF's family lives in Lafayette. That was my observation that only older people speak French, not even 50-somethings, but maybe I missed something.

MSY is a great place. Just not sure the historical ties will support an AF flight.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:13 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
That was my observation that only older people speak French, not even 50-somethings, but maybe I missed something.

It's declining FAST.

Even after the turn of the century, both St. Martin and Evangeline parishes boasted populations where 25%+ spoke French as a primary language. As of the 2010 census, both were below 18%, with the current estimation being somewhere between 13-15%. :(

When various Louisiana parishes stopped mandating elementary schools to teach French up to 6th grade, it was over.
Now, they're far better off learning Spanish.... you'd be practically lost in some parts of the state already, without it (*cough* Kenner)


BoeingGuy wrote:
MSY is a great place. Just not sure the historical ties will support an AF flight.

Complete agreement there. The historical ties are mostly just that, history.
What's left are business ties, and while MSY has plenty with France, it pales in comparison to multiple larger cities.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
IPFreely
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
I'm the biggest MSY fan out there.... but I'd eat my underwear if we saw AF there any time soon.


Brilliant.
 
crownvic
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:42 am

I say PHL. Why? Because they probably hold a record for being in and out of this city more than anywhere else. I believe we are at six start ups and six pull outs, since the 1960s. Maybe seven is the charm :)
 
Freshside3
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:02 am

usflyer123 wrote:
i hope it would be MSY, New Orleans could really use a flight to europe(exept the Condor flight).

MSY doesn't really need a flight to Germany, per se, but the Condor trip at least fills some of the void of having no Europe. MSY's real European needs are France, but surprisingly even more so, the UK, as opposed to Deutschland.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:16 am

DEN would be more likely. Many people in the French film industry go to Colorado for vacation. And with those kinds of bucks they make, they will buy business class.

MSY....well, Condor does not really offer any useful ways to connect elsewhere, so AF/CDG transfers would work.

PDX? Nah. Can't fathom that. SJC? They just got LH and BA recently.

Oddly enough, seasonal STL service could work. Yes, it is a WN hub, but the people have to use somebody to get to Europe.
 
irishpower
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:45 am

What about SJC?

Another carrier with direct service to Silicon Valley.
 
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:31 am

AF at MSY is the longest of longest shots right now due to the issues AF is dealing with. I'm going to go on a wild guess and say that LAS is next for AF assuming they are actually going to add a new route to the US.

Concerning MSY, DL will likely just keep expanding capacity to meet growing demand both domestic and international. Right now DL averages 27 departures/day and 3655 departing seats from 6 gates for a utilization of 4.5 departures and 609 departing seats per gate. There is room to increase both frequencies and capacity at those 6 gates before we see any decisions by DL/KL/AF to start service to CDG or AMS.

Non-sequitur, but keep everyone down here in your thoughts. It's been a rough few days with all of the record flooding due to 25 to 30 inches of rainfall last Thursday and Friday. Around 100,000 homes have been damaged in the Baton Rouge and Lafayette areas about 1 to 2 hours drive west of MSY, and the flood is still ongoing. BTR and LFT airports both stayed out of the flooding, so operations were not impacted. The flooding was very close to both airports though.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:43 am

Freshside3 wrote:
MSY doesn't really need a flight to Germany, per se, but the Condor trip at least fills some of the void of having no Europe. MSY's real European needs are France, but surprisingly even more so, the UK, as opposed to Deutschland.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion, as FRA actually has nearly equivalent O&D to/from MSY as PAR, as per 2011 and 2013.

LON is however, larger than both combined.


Freshside3 wrote:
MSY....well, Condor does not really offer any useful ways to connect elsewhere

Not with their own metal, but they do interline to plenty of major and minor destinations on LH, and will book people through (though oddly enough, for some destinations, you need to use 3rd parties in order to force the connections)/
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
peterdenver
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:35 pm

AF and DL currently fly from CDG to ATL, BOS, CVG, DTW, EWR, IAD, IAH, JFK, LAX, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PIT, RDU, SEA, SFO, and SLC.

These are the next 10 busiest airports in the United States that don't have AF or DL flying to CDG. Airports that have perimeter rules, no international arrivals, or short runways such as LGA, MDW, DCA, etc. are excluded.

Dallas (DFW), TX - Very Likely. Huge catchment area. Business hub. Already served by AA.
Denver (DEN), CO - Very Likely. Large catchment area. Business hub.
Charlotte (CLT), NC - Likely. Large catchment area. Business hub. Already served by AA.
Las Vegas (LAS), NV - Very Likely. Massive tourism.
Phoenix (PHX), AZ - Unlikely. Already has LHR, but this airport relies on Oneworld and Southwest Airlines.
Orlando (MCO), FL - Very Likely. Only a matter of time before AF restarts this route.
Fort Lauderdale (FLL), FL - Unlikely. I don't think AF would like to interfere with their MIA route, and there are no feasible connections. Already served by DY.
Baltimore (BWI), MD - Unlikely. TATL traffic to BWI is heavily subsidized, and AF/DL wouldn't have much to connect to.
Honolulu (HNL), HI - Very Unlikely. It's too far (7,443mi) and too thin for a place that relies on tourism.
San Diego (SAN), CA - Likely. SAN's European routes are doing well and I could see AF in the next 5 years.

As far as timing goes, I could
 
msycajun
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:50 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
MSY doesn't really need a flight to Germany, per se, but the Condor trip at least fills some of the void of having no Europe. MSY's real European needs are France, but surprisingly even more so, the UK, as opposed to Deutschland.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion, as FRA actually has nearly equivalent O&D to/from MSY as PAR, as per 2011 and 2013.

LON is however, larger than both combined.


All I have to go by in is the Brookings Institute study which shows Paris at nearly 16k passengers and Frankfurt at under 8k for 2011 - London bigger than both at over 30k. If you have better data, I'd be interested to see, because I'm sure the numbers have changed a lot since then as MSY has gone from recovery mode to setting passenger records in 2015 and poised to do so again in 2016.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:19 pm

Most recent public that I know of are the SabreMI numbers from 2013. You can find them posted on the London nonstop thread at the MSY Spotter's Fbook page, if you're a member.

I don't know of any more recent than that, publicly accessible.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
DiscoverCSG
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:43 pm

Nola wrote:
Would MSY really be likely with DL MSY-ATL service almost hourly and multiple ATL-CDG flights every day?


That depends on the numbers of people connecting from MSY to CDG (and beyond) via ATL. If there are sufficient numbers, and at sufficient yields, it would make eminent sense for AF or DL to operate MSY-CDG nonstop.

NolaMD88fan wrote:
Concerning MSY, DL will likely just keep expanding capacity to meet growing demand both domestic and international. Right now DL averages 27 departures/day and 3655 departing seats from 6 gates for a utilization of 4.5 departures and 609 departing seats per gate. There is room to increase both frequencies and capacity at those 6 gates before we see any decisions by DL/KL/AF to start service to CDG or AMS.


Since it's unlikely that MSY-CDG numbers and yields are high enough, this is the more likely scenario.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:27 pm

FWIW, DL was on the cusp on launching DFW-MSY-CDG (763ER) in 2001.

It even made one of their printed timetables. IINM, SunsetLimited has a copy.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Miami
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:35 pm

peterdenver wrote:
Orlando (MCO), FL - Very Likely. Only a matter of time before AF restarts this route.


Air France tried MCO as you stated. And failed. They couldn't make it work the first time so I doubt they'll be back anytime soon.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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787fan8
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:11 pm

Miami wrote:
peterdenver wrote:
Orlando (MCO), FL - Very Likely. Only a matter of time before AF restarts this route.


Air France tried MCO as you stated. And failed. They couldn't make it work the first time so I doubt they'll be back anytime soon.

If anyone's going to do CDG-MCO again, it's going to be DY.
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln

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Fastphilly
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:03 pm

gregn21 wrote:
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see SJC at this point.


If AF would start SJC it would be a seasonal route. During Winter season in the Bay Area AF down gauges substantially to daily 777. Having another flight in the off peak season to the region would be too much capacity. Silicon Valley to CDG business traffic isn't as large as compared to other European markets.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:40 pm

Next Air France station in the U.S. will be whatever route it and Delta decide is best.

Air France does not manage commercial decisions regarding its longhaul services to the U.S. by itself at all, but instead hand in hand as part of the broader Atlantic JV with DL.
mercure f-wtcc
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:56 pm

Im always down for a LAS route. I think both cities could really benefit from the route.
LAS is Life
 
mcogator
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:11 pm

Miami wrote:
peterdenver wrote:
Orlando (MCO), FL - Very Likely. Only a matter of time before AF restarts this route.


Air France tried MCO as you stated. And failed. They couldn't make it work the first time so I doubt they'll be back anytime soon.


It was during $100+ barrel oil. Flights were bursting at the seams. Even they could make it work now with cheap oil.

787fan8 wrote:
Miami wrote:
peterdenver wrote:
Orlando (MCO), FL - Very Likely. Only a matter of time before AF restarts this route.


Air France tried MCO as you stated. And failed. They couldn't make it work the first time so I doubt they'll be back anytime soon.

If anyone's going to do CDG-MCO again, it's going to be DY.


I assume you mean DL. I would much rather fly DL in Y+ over regular coach on AF. Those 77W's in tourist configuration are just horrible in coach.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
commavia
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Re: Air France's next US destination

Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
FWIW, DL was on the cusp on launching DFW-MSY-CDG (763ER) in 2001.

It even made one of their printed timetables. IINM, SunsetLimited has a copy.


I'm skeptical. I live in DFW, and did then, and have multiple Delta timetables from 2001, and don't ever remember anything about DFW-CDG on Delta, let alone via MSY. I'd be interested to see/hear about the timetable in which this was printed. I certainly do remember Air France flying DFW-CDG during the summer of 2001 and then promptly exiting after 9/11 when the market tanked and Air France needed widebody lift to backfill Africa after Sabena collapsed. But DFW-MSY-CDG? Hmmm.

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Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos