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Yirina77
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Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:59 pm

Only a very hypothetical question, but I've thought about it a few times.
If some airline decides to not provide uniform to their crew and allow them to fly in their civilian clothes - is it permitted? Does exists some regulation (from IATA f.e) which determines that crew must wear some uniform? When I see the crew going through the passport control on general declaration, would the immigration allow them to enter foreign country on this document without uniform? Is it something related to the dead heading crew, which are always travelling in uniform and sometimes passengers who are not familiar with this are confused when they see crew seated in cabin and doing nothing.
Does anybody know?
 
Draken21fx
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:58 pm

I cannot answer your questions but I do recall a European airline (I think it was Niki) where the cabin crew was wearing only shirts supplied by the airline. The trousers were casual jeans if I remember correctly, and everyone's were different. I admit it was a fresh approach compared to what we are used seeing.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:03 pm

At my airline there have been cases were a pilot has to fill in last minute (usually management or training pilot) and due to circumstances jumps in with no uniform. Crew members at least in the US also have a known crewmember card that they can show to officials. This is less likely to happen on a long international flight due to time and duty and rest requirements.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:23 pm

I'm not aware of laws requiring uniforms, but from an operational perspective (even leaving branding aside) it makes sense to have crew easily recognized on sight. Also, in an emergency it helps to know who the crew are on sight. Many traditions in the industry have come and gone, but uniforms are a constant and there are a number of very good reasons for that.
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wilcharl
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:47 pm

back in my airline days I know of one flight (I was a pax on it) where the captain showed up in jeans and a collared shirt and said to the FO "don't ask " Crew Scheduling junior manned him and we had no one to fly the flight.
 
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Yirina77
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:09 pm

I thought it may be the reason - evacuation and the necessity to recognize crew for passengers. One my friend about 10 years ago was flying on BMI flight in Thirt with logo BMI (she bought it in their on-board shop on previous flight) and cabin crew asked her to change her T shirt. When she asked why, she told her that passengers may be confused in the case of evacuation and may consider her as a staff. So she changed. But at the present time I see many passengers flying in T shirts with airline logos and nobody cares.
But I still do not know if it's written somewhere in the aviation regulations.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:14 am

Doc Lightning sums it up quite nicely, there are many reasons, most importantly safety.

When I flew Allegiant out of Newburgh (one of their smaller stations) The check in staff and gate agents were dressed very casually. A screen print Tee with a Wolf and the other woman had a polo shirt and jeans. It made them seem totally unprofessional.
 
tzfalax
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:46 am

Many years ago when I was an FA with ATA, we were working a ferry flight out of Muskat, Oman I believe. We were required by local officials to wear our uniforms. There was more than one crew on board and only one "working" crew but everyone was required to change into our uniforms at the airport before going through passport control. While that was 10+ years ago, it may vary by airport and country.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:43 am

Are there any requirements driving uniforms due to how different fabrics react in fire?

AFAIK Polyester is a no-no. But I haven't studied it too closely..
 
OSUk1d
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:48 am

My partner is an inflight supervisor with United, and worked a flight from LAS to LAX in regular clothes. He was supposed to be a passenger but it would have been cancelled due to being short a F/A.
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:23 am

USAirKid wrote:
Are there any requirements driving uniforms due to how different fabrics react in fire?


Definitely. The airline I work at brought in new uniforms for the female FAs, and it was held up for some time over finding suitable fire-resistant fabric.
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USAirKid
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:18 pm

BAeRJ100 wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Are there any requirements driving uniforms due to how different fabrics react in fire?


Definitely. The airline I work at brought in new uniforms for the female FAs, and it was held up for some time over finding suitable fire-resistant fabric.


This is why we don't see airlines not providing uniforms for crew. In a sense they're safety equipment.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:22 pm

They are required to be fire resistant, easily identifiable by passengers in an emergency and are a major part of branding by a carrier. Some upstart carriers with a unijet have tried to get by with giving (or making them purchase) a polo-type shirt.
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B777LRF
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:25 pm

Whilst the uniform may not be a legal requirement, there are certainly areas of the world where airport security would be hard pressed for a solution, should they be presented with a non-uniformed crew wanting access to their airport. It's usually the same places, where a big hat - preferably with loads os scrambled egg and leaves - together with an array of shoulder stripes, will let you slip through without anybody batting an eyelid or asking for credentials. But try entering in civvies carrying all the ID in the world proving you're a bonafide airline crew member, with an aircraft outside waiting for you, and they still won't let you by.
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intrance
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:58 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Whilst the uniform may not be a legal requirement, there are certainly areas of the world where airport security would be hard pressed for a solution, should they be presented with a non-uniformed crew wanting access to their airport. It's usually the same places, where a big hat - preferably with loads os scrambled egg and leaves - together with an array of shoulder stripes, will let you slip through without anybody batting an eyelid or asking for credentials. But try entering in civvies carrying all the ID in the world proving you're a bonafide airline crew member, with an aircraft outside waiting for you, and they still won't let you by.


This. I had to deal with this too many times. Returning planes to an owner after a lease period, flying planes from homebase to other bases, or away from homebase for maintenance... those flights did not require uniforms. Come up to airport security with a state issued crewmember certificate/card, which is even a legal document to enter that country, but no go because I wasn't wearing a white shirt and $1 stripes. Always had to get their shift leader, who did not know if he/she was allowed to let us pass even if it was the umpteenth time.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Airline without uniforms for crew (hypothetical)

Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:22 pm

intrance wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Whilst the uniform may not be a legal requirement, there are certainly areas of the world where airport security would be hard pressed for a solution, should they be presented with a non-uniformed crew wanting access to their airport. It's usually the same places, where a big hat - preferably with loads os scrambled egg and leaves - together with an array of shoulder stripes, will let you slip through without anybody batting an eyelid or asking for credentials. But try entering in civvies carrying all the ID in the world proving you're a bonafide airline crew member, with an aircraft outside waiting for you, and they still won't let you by.


This. I had to deal with this too many times. Returning planes to an owner after a lease period, flying planes from homebase to other bases, or away from homebase for maintenance... those flights did not require uniforms. Come up to airport security with a state issued crewmember certificate/card, which is even a legal document to enter that country, but no go because I wasn't wearing a white shirt and $1 stripes. Always had to get their shift leader, who did not know if he/she was allowed to let us pass even if it was the umpteenth time.

Which is funny because anyone could go to a pilot shop, uniform store, or amazon and be a Captain, FO, or anything they want!

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