Nice add! Probably has to be a regional jet, though. I don't think 737s can even make it to Houston without severe restrictions.

maybe too many people complained about the S340B experience on Silver Airways =p

I'm not sure anything can make those routes without severe restrictions!

Gosh, I would LOVE that addition and fly it from EWR at least once a winter! Could an E175 make it from either EWR or ORD?

msycajun wrote:

Nice add! Probably has to be a regional jet, though. I don't think 737s can even make it to Houston without severe restrictions.

Forgive me for not having a lot of technical knowledge on the industry, but what restrictions are you referring to?

TWA1985 wrote:

msycajun wrote:

Nice add! Probably has to be a regional jet, though. I don't think 737s can even make it to Houston without severe restrictions.

Forgive me for not having a lot of technical knowledge on the industry, but what restrictions are you referring to?

Key West's runway is only 4,801' long. Most planes cannot make it very far with a full passenger load from a runway that short.

The 73G with winglets and max possible thrust options is a rocket ship though. DL use to fly the 73G to LGA from EYW (with baggage restrictions- one checked bag and that is all allowed, for all passengers). While I do not know how UA's are speced EWR may be doable for their 73Gs. Probably even ORD, which is ~50 mi further, albeit with more restrictions.

TWA1985 wrote:

msycajun wrote:

Nice add! Probably has to be a regional jet, though. I don't think 737s can even make it to Houston without severe restrictions.

Forgive me for not having a lot of technical knowledge on the industry, but what restrictions are you referring to?

EYW has a very short runway, meaning that it can only go so far safely when fully loaded. If you want to go beyond that range, you have to restrict the number of passengers and bags you take to keep the plane lighter. One of the reasons I know this is that WN flew EYW-MSY before it closed EYW because the 737s could not make HOU or any points farther.

What kind of range will the CS100 have from EYW?

a380787 wrote:

maybe too many people complained about the S340B experience on Silver Airways =p

The only way to fly to the Keys. Take them from TPA for a quick weekend every now and then. Mood setters.

Polot wrote:

DL use to fly the 73G to LGA from EYW (with baggage restrictions- one checked bag and that is all allowed, for all passengers). While I do not know how UA's are speced EWR may be doable for their 73Gs. Probably even ORD, which is ~50 mi further, albeit with more restrictions.

FWIW, all of DL's flights from EYW are restricted to one checked bag--not just the LGA flight. It is def a quick takeoff roll!

United will offer daily, nonstop service between Key West and Newark, New Jersey Dec. 16 through May 4. Nonstop service between Key West and Chicago will occur Saturdays only Jan. 7 through April 29 to start. The flights will take place on 70-seat, E-170 regional jets.

info per The Citizen, Key West.

Delta no longer operates LGA-EYW, which was Saturday Only service.

E-170 Takeoff field length MTOW, ISA, SL is 4,865 ft.

From http://www.embraercommercialaviation.co ... rmance.pdf

Josh32121 wrote:

FWIW, all of DL's flights from EYW are restricted to one checked bag--not just the LGA flight.

Correct, it's all flights. DL uses the 73G and CRJ700 primarily, but there has been the occasional 319 into EYW as well. The fares (and yields) are through the roof compared to MIA and FLL, so I can understand why they are jumping into the market. US then AA uses the 175 to CLT. They were also flying to DCA on weekends, don't know what plane they were using.

Since it's a seasonal city for UA I wonder who will ground handle them? Can't see them opening a United Ground Express station just yet for one flight.

Very cool. I wonder why no IAD service though.

redzeppelin wrote:

What kind of range will the CS100 have from EYW?

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -or-moscow

"Bombardier has managed to squeeze another 140 nautical miles of range out of the C Series CS100 on flights to and from London City Airport (LCY), allowing the new narrowbody to fly 2,350 nautical miles with a full 108-seat passenger load."

LCY runway is listed as 4900'

EYW-ORD is 1087nm

toltommy wrote:

Since it's a seasonal city for UA I wonder who will ground handle them? Can't see them opening a United Ground Express station just yet for one flight.

Probably DGS, since Eagle/Envoy seems to be getting out of the OAL handling business, unless UGE thinks it can poach some business at EYW.

klwright69 wrote:

Very cool. I wonder why no IAD service though.

If I had to guess AA's DCA-EYW flight probably takes care of all the demand from the DC area. UA has very little IAD-Florida presence.

yyztpa wrote:

redzeppelin wrote:

What kind of range will the CS100 have from EYW?

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -or-moscow

"Bombardier has managed to squeeze another 140 nautical miles of range out of the C Series CS100 on flights to and from London City Airport (LCY), allowing the new narrowbody to fly 2,350 nautical miles with a full 108-seat passenger load."

LCY runway is listed as 4900'

EYW-ORD is 1087nm

Thanks! I don't know where the primary demand for EYW comes from but that opens some interesting opportunities. Even something like EYW-LAX (1992nm) could be a possibility.
EYW-MSP (1340nm) must at least be a consideration for DL when the C-series comes online.

asuflyer05 wrote:

klwright69 wrote:

Very cool. I wonder why no IAD service though.

If I had to guess AA's DCA-EYW flight probably takes care of all the demand from the DC area. UA has very little IAD-Florida presence.

The second sentence in particular. UA doesn't even fly to MIA from IAD.

Used to fly TW from STL-MIA and then MIA-MTH on Air Sunshine and then later PBA on DC-3s. Even got to fly out of EYW a few times on PBA as a lad, both back in the late 70s and 80s. Was a blast.

TFlintoff24 wrote:

United will offer daily, nonstop service between Key West and Newark, New Jersey Dec. 16 through May 4. Nonstop service between Key West and Chicago will occur Saturdays only Jan. 7 through April 29 to start. The flights will take place on 70-seat, E-170 regional jets.

GolfBravoRomeo wrote:

E-170 Takeoff field length MTOW, ISA, SL is 4,865 ft.

From http://www.embraercommercialaviation.co ... rmance.pdf

The northbound flights gotta be weight restricted.

Just ran some numbers. These vary by +/- 500'ish lbs depending on which aircraft is used. (Older engines, empty weight differences...etc)

Zero wind
Bleeds (packs) OFF
Optimum flap setting
29c temperature
29.92 altimeter
737-700 (tried out 10 of our models)

Nets an average max take off weight of about 137,000. I was able to get it as high as 138,100 and as low as 136,500

Max structural take off on our 737-700's are 154,500. So we're looking at 16,500 restriction on the maximum take off weight.

Obviously these numbers would be better with wind credit and lower temperatures, but I wanted to use a constant standard line.

What fuel quantity did you use? Max fuel in 46,000 pounds however a flight to Chicago would need no where near this. Even using 30,000 pounds of gas would give you approximately 5 hours of flight time for the burn, plus alternate, plus reserve.

OneSexyL1011 wrote:

Just ran some numbers. These vary by +/- 500'ish lbs depending on which aircraft is used. (Older engines, empty weight differences...etc)

Zero wind
Bleeds (packs) OFF
Optimum flap setting
29c temperature
29.92 altimeter
737-700 (tried out 10 of our models)

Nets an average max take off weight of about 137,000. I was able to get it as high as 138,100 and as low as 136,500

Max structural take off on our 737-700's are 154,500. So we're looking at 16,500 restriction on the maximum take off weight.

Obviously these numbers would be better with wind credit and lower temperatures, but I wanted to use a constant standard line.

this is mostly a tropical / beach destination. how much luggage are these people hauling anyway, like they're emigrating to a foreign nation when they're just going for a 4 day weekend getaway

jetskipper wrote:

What fuel quantity did you use? Max fuel in 46,000 pounds however a flight to Chicago would need no where near this. Even using 30,000 pounds of gas would give you approximately 5 hours of flight time for the burn, plus alternate, plus reserve.

OneSexyL1011 wrote:

Just ran some numbers. These vary by +/- 500'ish lbs depending on which aircraft is used. (Older engines, empty weight differences...etc)

Zero wind
Bleeds (packs) OFF
Optimum flap setting
29c temperature
29.92 altimeter
737-700 (tried out 10 of our models)

Nets an average max take off weight of about 137,000. I was able to get it as high as 138,100 and as low as 136,500

Max structural take off on our 737-700's are 154,500. So we're looking at 16,500 restriction on the maximum take off weight.

Obviously these numbers would be better with wind credit and lower temperatures, but I wanted to use a constant standard line.

That varies too much so I just wanted to use a max tow, so zfw+fuel. Some days it would vary too much depending on weather. So it might be doable with a 73G. Just wanted to do straight weight restrictions for take off. I can run flight plans but ehh, maybe later.

SurfandSnow wrote:

Wow, more Florida expansion for UA! Maybe after all these recent additions and resumptions UA won't be criticized on here all the time for giving up on Florida. Whereas moves like EWR-SRQ and SFO-TPA were to be expected, this is quite a pleasant surprise! I wonder if UA could be considering a resumption of EWR-DAB, EWR-MLB and/or some kind of nonstop service between EWR and the panhandle beaches (ECP/PNS/VPS). I have to think UA is looking into some sort of nonstop link between LAX and South Florida (most likely FLL) for the sake of important Angeleno FFers that have plenty of competitor alternatives to connecting through the likes of IAH or ORD...

LAX-FLL will indeed close a MAJOR gap in their LAX route network. A beefing up of ORD-FLL frequencies would also be welcomed.

Tourism in the Keys has been been increasing over the last 5 years. I've been going down every year and each time is more noticeable then the last. Lots of new hotels popping up all over the islands. With that being said I'm surprised nobody has looked at starting flights to Marathon Intl Airport (MTH). It's smack in the middle of the Keys, 1H30 drive from Key West and Homestead and with a 5008ft RWY would give a little extra breathing room over EYW, not to mention an extra 1000ft of clearance on either end of the runway for added climb out performance. And if they really had too they could easily extend that runway almost another 1000ft comfortably while staying within the current airport boundaries. The facilities are all there too, a small terminal with a baggage carousel and three car rental companies on site, not to mention it recently became and International Airport with on-site customs. Would love to see commercial service return to this awesome little airport!

ryan78 wrote:

Tourism in the Keys has been been increasing over the last 5 years. I've been going down every year and each time is more noticeable then the last. Lots of new hotels popping up all over the islands. With that being said I'm surprised nobody has looked at starting flights to Marathon Intl Airport (MTH). It's smack in the middle of the Keys, 1H30 drive from Key West and Homestead and with a 5008ft RWY would give a little extra breathing room over EYW, not to mention an extra 1000ft of clearance on either end of the runway for added climb out performance. And if they really had too they could easily extend that runway almost another 1000ft comfortably while staying within the current airport boundaries. The facilities are all there too, a small terminal with a baggage carousel and three car rental companies on site, not to mention it recently became and International Airport with on-site customs. Would love to see commercial service return to this awesome little airport!

I really like your thoughts on this as it would allow arriving passengers to go west towards Key West, east to Key Largo (a prime tourist spot as well) or just stay in the Middle Keys

ryan78 wrote:

Tourism in the Keys has been been increasing over the last 5 years. I've been going down every year and each time is more noticeable then the last. Lots of new hotels popping up all over the islands. With that being said I'm surprised nobody has looked at starting flights to Marathon Intl Airport (MTH). It's smack in the middle of the Keys, 1H30 drive from Key West and Homestead and with a 5008ft RWY would give a little extra breathing room over EYW, not to mention an extra 1000ft of clearance on either end of the runway for added climb out performance. And if they really had too they could easily extend that runway almost another 1000ft comfortably while staying within the current airport boundaries. The facilities are all there too, a small terminal with a baggage carousel and three car rental companies on site, not to mention it recently became and International Airport with on-site customs. Would love to see commercial service return to this awesome little airport!

I really like your thoughts on this as it would allow arriving passengers to go west towards Key West, east to Key Largo (a prime tourist spot as well) or just stay in the Middle Keys

United787 wrote:

piedmont762 wrote:

STT757 wrote:

Perhaps a stop in MCO.

I would bet they could demand a better fare than if they flew to MIA and compete directly with AA and indirectly with everyone at FLL. If I were travelling to Key West, I would pay a premium for a non-stop flight over connecting to another airline at MIA or renting a car and driving 3-4 hours. I would probably save some money in the long run also...

You are incorrect. MIA to EYW is not only a very scenic drive but only 2-2.5 hours at the most. Not 3-4 hours.

piedmont762 wrote:

United787 wrote:

piedmont762 wrote:

I would bet they could demand a better fare than if they flew to MIA and compete directly with AA and indirectly with everyone at FLL. If I were travelling to Key West, I would pay a premium for a non-stop flight over connecting to another airline at MIA or renting a car and driving 3-4 hours. I would probably save some money in the long run also...

You are incorrect. MIA to EYW is not only a very scenic drive but only 2-2.5 hours at the most. Not 3-4 hours.

Only 2 to 2 1/2 hours?
What fantasy world are you living in?

piedmont762 wrote:

United787 wrote:

piedmont762 wrote:

I would bet they could demand a better fare than if they flew to MIA and compete directly with AA and indirectly with everyone at FLL. If I were travelling to Key West, I would pay a premium for a non-stop flight over connecting to another airline at MIA or renting a car and driving 3-4 hours. I would probably save some money in the long run also...

You are incorrect. MIA to EYW is not only a very scenic drive but only 2-2.5 hours at the most. Not 3-4 hours.

As someone who's done the drive from FLL to MTH (Marathon-Middle Keys) 5 times, I can assure you that it takes 2H30M average, in good traffic, and from MTH to EYW another 1H15M. Once you are past Islamorada the highway drops to 1 lane all the way down to Key West, and anyone who has driven down there can attest to the fact that everyone goes 10-15mph UNDER the speed limit and it is teeming with cops doing speed-traps. Even google says 3H11M from MIA to EYW...

piedmont762 wrote:

You are incorrect. MIA to EYW is not only a very scenic drive but only 2-2.5 hours at the most. Not 3-4 hours.

You are the incorrect one. I've been driving into the keys since 1993. While it's only 150 miles or so, it is congested 2 lane road most of the way. The 18 mile stretch between Homestead and Key Largo was supposed to be rebuilt as a 4 lane, but the locals shot is down. Now its a congested stretch with a wall down the middle to prevent head-ons. The road is 4 lane from Key Largo to Tavernier, but volume and traffic lights make 45 a good speed. We plan on 4 hours from MIA to our place on Big Pine. The road is beautiful, yes. But it is also the ONLY road and traffic reflects it.

National Airlines had Lockheed Prop Jet Electras and Boeing 727-100 into EYW and Air Florida had Boeing 737-200s,Eastern had a 727 also there.I believe the runway was shorter than 4801 feet then,

I would not be surprised if these E170 runs to EYW for UA are done by UA Express/Republic. Republic has a large 170/175 base in both ORD and EWR. Republic crews are already familiar with EYW as they serve it 5x daily on the 175 from MIA and this season 2x daily from CLT on the 175 and weekend service from DCA on the 175. Would make sense as crews can be interchanged by Republic easily if need be due to all the flying in and out EYW.

Good to see UA stepping up their game a bit!

Look for AA thinking of DFW, ORD, and PHL next season.

piedmont762 wrote:

You are incorrect. MIA to EYW is not only a very scenic drive but only 2-2.5 hours at the most. Not 3-4 hours.

The above statement is false, wrong, and incorrect; driving between the two is roughly 3.5 hours on a good day. If one floors it and breaks the speed limit and does not stop maybe 3 flat. With stops and traffic the drive is closer to four hours on some days.

I would like to see KeyWest Airport remain as is. Marathon's 5,000 ft runway has room to extend at both ends and would be excellent for carrier service.

ryan78 wrote:

Tourism in the Keys has been been increasing over the last 5 years. I've been going down every year and each time is more noticeable then the last. Lots of new hotels popping up all over the islands. With that being said I'm surprised nobody has looked at starting flights to Marathon Intl Airport (MTH). It's smack in the middle of the Keys, 1H30 drive from Key West and Homestead and with a 5008ft RWY would give a little extra breathing room over EYW, not to mention an extra 1000ft of clearance on either end of the runway for added climb out performance. And if they really had too they could easily extend that runway almost another 1000ft comfortably while staying within the current airport boundaries. The facilities are all there too, a small terminal with a baggage carousel and three car rental companies on site, not to mention it recently became and International Airport with on-site customs. Would love to see commercial service return to this awesome little airport!

Also the property market is going nuts down there, lots of money from the north east flowing in for winter and weekend homes, lots of demand there for quick hops into the keys, I wouldn't be surprised to see MTH get a little bump in flights shortly.

Awesome to see UA had some more adventurous routes, but if you really are planning on going to Key West, take the highway! Sure, it might take a while, but the view is well worth the time. Or perhaps fly in MIA/FLL and fly out EYW if you can finagle it.

I wonder why they haven't pursued a joint use agreement with the navy base? 10k ft runway.

For anet fans, there is nothing better than a tropical setting, big airplanes and short runways. Ironically no sooner had EYW installed the EMAS safety overruns than two business jets ran off the runway- in opposite directions.

I've flown aboard Delta's 73G from EYW to ATL many times. On one occasion I was lucky enough to speak to an F/O completing his walk-around and going up the stairs with we business class pax. For that noontime flight to Atlanta our gross weight was 129,000 pounds on a typical warm ISA + 15 (or a bit more) Florida Key day. On all our departures from EYW they have kept the bleeds-on and the A/C flowing through the supply duct. At those light weights the 73G hot rod has no problem going direct to FL400 for the short trip to Atlanta.

I would anticipate unless there are low ceilings and/or weather issues going into ORD, in which case the increased fuel load may bump some pax, the 737-700 should be more than capable of handling a flight of that distance from Key West.

ryan78 wrote:

Tourism in the Keys has been been increasing over the last 5 years. I've been going down every year and each time is more noticeable then the last. Lots of new hotels popping up all over the islands. With that being said I'm surprised nobody has looked at starting flights to Marathon Intl Airport (MTH). It's smack in the middle of the Keys, 1H30 drive from Key West.

The key word being "drive". People who visit Key West don't want to drive. In fact driving in Key West is highly discouraged and parking is expensive for obvious reasons. The drive from MIA is very scenic indeed, we just spent a vacation in the Keys this past April, but generally speaking there are 2 types of visitors to the keys: those who go to Key West and those who go everywhere but Key West. For those who go to Key West, being able to fly right into Key West and not have to rent a car is a huge benefit.

toltommy wrote:

piedmont762 wrote:

You are incorrect. MIA to EYW is not only a very scenic drive but only 2-2.5 hours at the most. Not 3-4 hours.

You are the incorrect one. I've been driving into the keys since 1993. While it's only 150 miles or so, it is congested 2 lane road most of the way. The 18 mile stretch between Homestead and Key Largo was supposed to be rebuilt as a 4 lane, but the locals shot is down. Now its a congested stretch with a wall down the middle to prevent head-ons. The road is 4 lane from Key Largo to Tavernier, but volume and traffic lights make 45 a good speed. We plan on 4 hours from MIA to our place on Big Pine. The road is beautiful, yes. But it is also the ONLY road and traffic reflects it.

Now you're skewing it - with traffic is one thing, but 150 miles is supposed to be less than 3 hours.