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COKMCI
Topic Author
Posts: 26
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Why are none of the American/European Airlines interested in Cochin (COK)?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:25 am

Emirates - 14 Weekly B777/A332
Qatar - 10 weekly A333
Etihad - 21 weekly A332/A321
Silkair - 10 weekly B737
Oman Air - 14 weekly B737
Gulf air - 7 weekly A321
Air India connection from DEL

All these flights connect passengers from Europe and US to COK and CIAL is offering Free parking and Landing for 1 year for a direct flight to US/Europe. Still nobody is interested.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 152907.cms
Last edited by atcsundevil on Tue May 02, 2017 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title edited for grammar and clarity
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:01 am

wow, what an interesting title choice :)

But back in adult land, all that connectivity is a reason why the need to open new routes is reduced.

America is not going to happen though so that is a pipe dream, but Europe is more realistic.
 
BrooklyBOMgal
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:27 am

The COK market isn't strong enough to sustain a profitable flight from Europe or America.
There are many who fly out of COK but it is a very price sensitive market and therefore is not profitable for long haul flights. The routes to Gulf are well served by the Gulf Airlines as well as the Indian carriers. COK may have the numbers to make the flight full but it is price sensitive.
 
sibibom
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:00 am

People who think yields are low in COK haven't honestly flown outta there.People may think yields are trash between Kerala and the Gulf but thats anything but true. I just spend a bomb to fly outta there last week (and I flew to BOM). But these prices are 3-4 times a year perhaps over 3-4 months, and COK lacks business travel which makes widebodies from Europe unsustainable (ULH from US is probably never going to happen). Perhaps something like norwegian will be able to make it work from London, but otherwise not likely.
 
SonOfABeech
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:25 am

I think (I could be wrong) the Kerala diaspora stays mostly within narrowbody range of COK and TRV, and they don't generate much business travel.
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:37 am

Referring to the title, where there is a double-negative, the answer to the question is that All US/Europen airlines are not interested! LOL!

Others have provided the real answers, the ME3 get the pax to their hubs and then onto everywhere else!
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:39 am

I think you already mentioned it on the title.

From what you write, there are 66 weekly flights to Gulf hubs. That is almost 10 daily flights. How to compete with that?
 
behramjee
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:41 am

very simple answer to your title question. The demand from COK to EU/UK/USA is nothing great.

Seriously speaking, not a single route from Kerala to UK/EU/USA has more than 40,000 passengers annually (round trip total) plus 95% of this travel is in economy class.

EU/USA is nicely catered by QR/EK/EY from Kerala state via GCC with enough frequency/capacity hence no need for any U.S./EU carrier to look at COK.
 
Pbb152
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:00 pm

You know, I know it isn't a US or European route, but I really think a COK-FUK-PUS route would be a huge success. The entry into PUS would need to be tight though for it to work.
 
winginit
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:08 pm

sibibom wrote:
People who think yields are low in COK haven't honestly flown outta there.People may think yields are trash between Kerala and the Gulf but thats anything but true. I just spend a bomb to fly outta there last week (and I flew to BOM).


I believe we call that anecdotal, and anecdotal accounts are often anything but reflective of the broader reality.
 
a380787
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:16 pm

Pbb152 wrote:
You know, I know it isn't a US or European route, but I really think a COK-FUK-PUS route would be a huge success. The entry into PUS would need to be tight though for it to work.


Just make sure PUS airport has a wide enough gate to dock that A380 .... there's a reason the plane is built at a place called Toulouse ..... (okay back to adult land)

Even COK to Europe is slightly ahead of its times already. Just look at the thin offerings from secondary Indian airports like BLR HYD MAA to Europe. Never say never, but for the next 10 years, the likelihood of a nonstop happening is still rather slim.
Last edited by a380787 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
luftaom
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:17 pm

It's low yield and most pax are going to the middle east only.

The reason why the gulf carriers fly there in such numbers is the large number of Indian workers from the area working in the middle east. See for example: http://www.firstpost.com/india/gulf-mal ... 26792.html

Cochin is the only place in the world where I have seen numerous construction sites staffed exclusively by women. Doing backbreaking work - like passing buckets of cement up the scaffolding to where it needed to be poured (no concrete pumps here).

All (or at least most) of the male construction workers are in the middle east working on construction sites there.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
COKMCI
Topic Author
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:41 pm

behramjee wrote:
very simple answer to your title question. The demand from COK to EU/UK/USA is nothing great.

Seriously speaking, not a single route from Kerala to UK/EU/USA has more than 40,000 passengers annually (round trip total) plus 95% of this travel is in economy class.

EU/USA is nicely catered by QR/EK/EY from Kerala state via GCC with enough frequency/capacity hence no need for any U.S./EU carrier to look at COK.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 059815.cms

According to the above article, Cochin(not from Kerala) to Europe has 60,000 Passengers and about 182,500 to US and Europe annually in 2011, this number is increasing day by day.

COK Passenger Growth in recent years
(2012-13) - 3.5% (only airport with passenger growth when comparing top 7 airports in INDIA)
(2013-14) - 10.3% (more than any other top 7 airports in India)
(2014-15) - 19.2% (HYD - 20.2% and BLR - 19.7%)
(2015-16) - 21% (Increase in International-24% and Domestic 17%) (BLR - 23.2%)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 785035.cms

The increase in BLR and HYD in the recent years is because of airlines hub and increase in domestic travels and connecting passengers from these airports. COK is not a hub for any of the domestic carriers.

http://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/sp ... 23916.html

After DEL and BOM, Cochin is the third busiest Indian airport in international passenger traffic. ME3 have no problem filling their Business class seats to Cochin. I don't think they fill all this seats by middle east to cochin Passengers, Indian carriers flying in this route is unable to do so (but they are also getting some business customers). COK is a price sensitive market but Business class fare from any US city to COK is higher than BLR, HYD, MAA, DEL, and BOM any day. New international terminal will be open next month in COK, this may be a better time for CIAL and European carriers to move forward. BA, LH, and AF can do one stop connection to COK from more US and Europe cities than ME3.
 
a380787
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:57 pm

182500 annually is basically 500 a day, which is the size of 1 single EK A380, but you've listed already ~9x daily flights to Middle East (roughly 1800-2000 seats), not to mention all the AI domestic flights up to DEL+BOM for international connections.

Flip the question backwards would make it easier to answer - which airline from US or Europe should offer a nonstop to COK ?
 
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KrustyTheKlown
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:33 pm

My guess is that every time an European or American airline shows some interest in Cochin International some anti-spam system deletes their emails:

John,

Please prepare a feasibility study for a new route to COK in Nedumbassery, Kerala, India.

Regards,
 
[email protected]
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:09 pm

In the week commencing 22nd August 2016, 14 airlines offered service between COK and the Middle East. Combined, these 14 had 46,995 seats on a one-way basis in this week period. In order of market share (rounded for simplicity) by seats:

Saudia: 16.23% - 74% of Saudia's 7,629 weekly one-way seats from COK are to Jeddah
Jet: 15.01%
Air India Express: 11.87%
Emirates: 10.79%
Etihad: 7.97%
Air India: 7.18%
Qatar: 6.83%
IndiGo: 5.36%
Air Arabia: 4.97%
Kuwait: 4.05%
SpiceJet: 2.82%
Oman: 2.81%
Gulf Air: 2.52%
FlyDubai: 1.59%

Source: OAG.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:09 am

Short answer: because free parking and landing fees aren't incentive enough to mitigate the risks in launching the route. I actually ended up saying that to an airport client relationship manager once after receiving endless garbage requests to launch a new route. I find airport marketing teams often have no clue about the actual cost of airline operations.
 
subramak1
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:24 pm

If you agree that BLR/ HYD/ MAA/PNQ are much bigger markets than COK in terms of European traffic, it is obvious why COK doesnt get any European airline.

BLR - gets 3 flights to Europe - LHR, CDG , FRA
MAA - gets LHR, FRA
HYD - gets FRA
PNQ - gets FRA

Thanks, Subu
 
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MrGtheSheepA346
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 4:34 pm

subramak1 wrote:
If you agree that BLR/ HYD/ MAA/PNQ are much bigger markets than COK in terms of European traffic, it is obvious why COK doesnt get any European airline.

BLR - gets 3 flights to Europe - LHR, CDG , FRA
MAA - gets LHR, FRA
HYD - gets FRA
PNQ - gets FRA

Thanks, Subu


BLR will get a 4th flight to Europe, operated by 9W to AMS from the 29th of October this year
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 5:09 pm

COKMCI wrote:
According to the above article, Cochin(not from Kerala) to Europe has 60,000 Passengers and about 182,500 to US and Europe annually in 2011, this number is increasing day by day.


Compare that 182K annually to the top 40 international airports that do have non-stop service to the U.S. See Table 7 in the link below.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... e-2016.pdf

This is one of those a.net questions that by being asked shows how very little about airline economics, geography, and business links the OP understands.
 
jumpjets
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 5:14 pm

subramak1 wrote:
If you agree that BLR/ HYD/ MAA/PNQ are much bigger markets than COK in terms of European traffic, it is obvious why COK doesnt get any European airline.

BLR - gets 3 flights to Europe - LHR, CDG , FRA
MAA - gets LHR, FRA
HYD - gets FRA
PNQ - gets FRA

Thanks, Subu


BA also serve HYD - a daily 787 I believe
 
TerminalD
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 5:47 pm

a380787 wrote:
Just make sure PUS airport has a wide enough gate to dock that A380 .... there's a reason the plane is built at a place called Toulouse ..... (okay back to adult land)

I spend a considerable amount of time trying to grow demand for COK. I think there is a natural limit in COK demand, in that many that might become interested are already committed. If you could fix that problem you could greatly increase the size of the group interested in COK. Another thing that is really hurting demand is that a lot of people go there themselves, when they should be trying to get others to visit COK.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 6:14 pm

What are the passenger numbers from Cochin to FRA and LHR? I also would be curious what the premium cabin demand is. Kerala is a huge source of laborers to the middle East from what I have heard. That will drive capacity to the middle East and allow plenty of business class seats available for low prices for connections. Colombo similarly has tons of demand from economy passengers yet incredibly low business and first class fares, which us why it doesn't see year round service from the European airlines. What that hurts Cochin's interest from airlines in Europe who rely on high revenue business traffic is low Emirates fares. The high economy demand opens up plenty of service but the middle East airlines have full service planes with business class cabins that they have to fill. That results in discounts and hurt yields making airlines that depend on business class revenue like BA and LH stay out of the market.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 6:57 pm

subramak1 wrote:
If you agree that BLR/ HYD/ MAA/PNQ are much bigger markets than COK in terms of European traffic, it is obvious why COK doesnt get any European airline.

BLR - gets 3 flights to Europe - LHR, CDG , FRA
MAA - gets LHR, FRA
HYD - gets FRA
PNQ - gets FRA

Thanks, Subu


HYD doesn't see FRA. The below list is more accurate:

BLR - LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS
MAA - LHR, FRA, CDG
HYD - LHR
PNQ - FRA
Vahroone
 
subramak1
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Re: Why none of the American/European Airlines not interested in COK?

Tue May 02, 2017 7:39 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
If you agree that BLR/ HYD/ MAA/PNQ are much bigger markets than COK in terms of European traffic, it is obvious why COK doesnt get any European airline.

BLR - gets 3 flights to Europe - LHR, CDG , FRA
MAA - gets LHR, FRA
HYD - gets FRA
PNQ - gets FRA

Thanks, Subu


HYD doesn't see FRA. The below list is more accurate:

BLR - LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS
MAA - LHR, FRA, CDG
HYD - LHR
PNQ - FRA


That is correct , I typed FRA in error when I meant to type LHR

Subu
 
stburke
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Re: Why are none of the American/European Airlines interested in Cochin (COK)?

Tue May 02, 2017 7:55 pm

UA already operates DIK, why do they need interest in another?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Why are none of the American/European Airlines interested in Cochin (COK)?

Wed May 03, 2017 12:13 am

stburke wrote:
UA already operates DIK, why do they need interest in another?

We are talking about Cochin, India here.
 
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AirIndia
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Re: Why are none of the American/European Airlines interested in Cochin (COK)?

Wed May 03, 2017 5:38 am

anshabhi wrote:
stburke wrote:
UA already operates DIK, why do they need interest in another?

We are talking about Cochin, India here.

Hahaha, surpried you dint get the joke!
 
anshabhi
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Re: Why are none of the American/European Airlines interested in Cochin (COK)?

Wed May 03, 2017 7:01 am

AirIndia wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
stburke wrote:
UA already operates DIK, why do they need interest in another?

We are talking about Cochin, India here.

Hahaha, surpried you dint get the joke!


Oh it was a joke!!! Hahahahah

I am stupid!
 
tpaewr
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Re: Why are none of the American/European Airlines interested in Cochin (COK)?

Wed May 03, 2017 7:05 am

I don't see this happening. Old CO had aggressive 787 plans for India as I recall. Building on the success of DEL & BOM. MAA, BGL and HYD were all talked about.

With the merger however these aircraft became much more valuable in UAs long neglected San Francisco hub.


Sadly I lament it was actually CO metal/plastic that was the final nail in the NRT hub (and the JV with NH) I know it was a dinosaur, but a fun one. (Everything cool I loved about UA was antiquated but I still miss it)



It would have been interesting to see what CO was going to do with the planned 787 & 737 base in LAX. But as history turned out we will never know.

Sans CO, I doubt you'll ever see directly US TO Secondary Cities in India

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