Looks like WN is pretty much done with the 737-5

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -sep-2016/

Southwest Airlines next week is operating last Boeing 737-500 scheduled service, currently scheduled on 05SEP16. This marks the end of nearly 26.5 years of the airline’s Boeing 737-500 operation. From 29AUG16 to 05SEP16, the airline’s 737-500 operates on following routes:

Dallas Love Field – Amarillo 1 daily
Dallas Love Field – Austin 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – El Paso 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – Houston Hobby up to 6 daily
Dallas Love Field – Little Rock 3 daily
Dallas Love Field – Lubbock 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – Midland/Odessa 3 daily
Dallas Love Field – New Orleans 3 daily
Dallas Love Field – Oklahoma City 2 daily
Dallas Love Field – San Antonio 3 daily
Dallas Love Field – Tulsa 2 daily
Houston Hobby – Harlingen 1 daily

On 05SEP16, the airline also operates one-way flight by 737-500 on El Paso – Phoenix route. Based on current schedule, planned Boeing 737-500 departures from 1900hrs (Local Time) onwards as follow.

WN051 DAL1900 – 2000HOU
WN3590 DAL1905 – 2005SAT
WN056 HOU1930 – 2030DAL
WN337 ELP1950 – 2230DAL
WN735 DAL2000 – 2100HOU
WN122 SAT2040 – 2140DAL

With Southwest Airlines operating last 737-500 flight, this also marks the end of scheduled Boeing 737-500 aircraft on domestic US routes.

Where are the 735s going to for retirement?

Why get rid of the 735s when there are still 733s in the fleet? I thought the 735 was for routes that were too thin for a 733. How long will the 733s remain?

blacksoviet wrote:

Why get rid of the 735s when there are still 733s in the fleet? I thought the 735 was for routes that were too thin for a 733. How long will the 733s remain?

The 735 was for longer flights for which the 733 did not have the range. When the 737-700 was introduced, that was no longer an issue.

Are we sure Labor Day is the last day for 735 flights? If so, you can get on the last flight for less than $200...not bad for a retirement.

The only good thing about the 735 was that they were the last planes in the WN fleet with the backwards seats. Otherwise, not a huge fan.

I'm scheduled to fly on a 735 from MSY-DAL Sept 5. I had no idea this was going to be its last day of operation.

Boeing778X wrote:

Where are the 735s going to for retirement?

I've seen a lot of them hanging out in Tucson (TUS, not Marana).

They are some of the oldest aircraft in Southwest's fleet--only two 737-300s are older (N354SW and N356SW). The seven remaining aircraft were all delivered between August of 1991 and May of 1992.

They are great little birds, but I'm sure retiring them helps Southwest save some money.

Sad to see this. I was lucky enough to ride on one of these for a short hop from DAL to AUS in March... Got off the ground quickly, and climbed out to around 22,000 ft and followed I35 home... We had a great view of all of central Texas.. Great flight. While we were deplaning, I asked the captain how many cycles were on that particular bird to which he answered, "pssh.. how many grains of sand are on the beach?" LOL.

The -500 will be missed.

blacksoviet wrote:

Why get rid of the 735s when there are still 733s in the fleet? I thought the 735 was for routes that were too thin for a 733. How long will the 733s remain?

The -500s were delivered before the -300s and were intended to replace the -200s. When Herb and the rest of the WN Management team realized that it cost the same to operate the -300 as the -500, but the -300 could hold 15 more passengers, they only took delivery of 25 -500s .
As for the -300s they are all supposed to be gone by the 2nd quarter of 2017.

No not 2nd quarter but 3rd quarter

Dang. I've never managed to get on a 735. On any airline. I've flown every variant of WN's fleet except that. Well, and the 727's they leased for a short time but I've been on both the -100 and -200 of that on other airlines. Oh well, that and the DC-10 have eluded me, don't really care about the 777, 787 and the Airbuses I've missed out on, but the 735's a bummer.

OzarkD9S wrote:

Dang. I've never managed to get on a 735. On any airline. I've flown every variant of WN's fleet except that. Well, and the 727's they leased for a short time but I've been on both the -100 and -200 of that on other airlines. Oh well, that and the DC-10 have eluded me, don't really care about the 777, 787 and the Airbuses I've missed out on, but the 735's a bummer.

There are still a few operators out there according to https://m.planespotters.net/operators/B ... 37/737-500

Operators with three or more active include Air Baltic, ANA Wings, Badr Airlines, Bahamasair, Belavia, Blue Air, LC Peru, NAM Air, Nordavia, SCAT Air, Southwest (well for another week), Sriwijaya Air, Taron-Avia, Ukraine International Airlines and UTAir Aviation. Then there are more with one or two. I'm still hopeful of getting one (ANA Wings in Japan seems like a good bet).

The -600 on the other hand is a rarer beast, with your options being Air Algerie, SAS, Tunisair, or Westjet (or if you travel to Area 51, EG&G!)

V/F

austinairport wrote:

Sad to see this. I was lucky enough to ride on one of these for a short hop from DAL to AUS in March... Got off the ground quickly, and climbed out to around 22,000 ft and followed I35 home... We had a great view of all of central Texas.. Great flight. While we were deplaning, I asked the captain how many cycles were on that particular bird to which he answered, "pssh.. how many grains of sand are on the beach?" LOL.

The -500 will be missed.

Not unless you're working it from the ground crew point of view. The bins are smaller, particularly the fwd "A" bin which is large enough to accommodate a couple of slim bags.

WN currently operates a few -300s that are MUCH older than the -500s. These -300s however are the secondhand -300s, as all of the 1980s original WN planes are long gone.

737tanker wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Why get rid of the 735s when there are still 733s in the fleet? I thought the 735 was for routes that were too thin for a 733. How long will the 733s remain?

The -500s were delivered before the -300s and were intended to replace the -200s. When Herb and the rest of the WN Management team realized that it cost the same to operate the -300 as the -500, but the -300 could hold 15 more passengers, they only took delivery of 25 -500s .

Negative... the first 737-300s were delivered to WN in 1985. WN took their first -500 in 1990. By the time the first -500 was on property, WN already had a fleet of roughly 50 733s. As said above, the 735s were ordered for long/thin routes. The extra range of the 735 was unnecessary once the 73G became available.

Why didn't WN order the 736?

Did WN even have long and thin back in 1990? In those days wasn't LAX-HOU about as long haul as they got?

blacksoviet wrote:

Why didn't WN order the 736?

Because the 73G has trans-continental range, better seat-mile costs, and the seating capacity is interchangeable with the 733.

Long/thin is indeed a relative measure for WN in the 90s. Perhaps some of our WN old timers can chime in on some of the original routings.

Looks like SAT-DAL will be the last Boeing 735 route for Southwest. Fitting it would be on one of the three original routes Southwest started with, the other two being SAT-HOU and HOU-DAL.

blacksoviet wrote:

Why didn't WN order the 736?

Too heavy. The 736 is less efficient than a 735, because it has the new NG wing, heavier landing gear, and heavier engines.

us330 wrote:

They are some of the oldest aircraft in Southwest's fleet--only two 737-300s are older (N354SW and N356SW).

Not to nitpick, but I see seven active 733s that are older than the oldest 735. N657SW, N658SW, N340LV, N697SW, N317WN, N354SW, and N356SW. 354 and 356 are the oldest 733s originally delivered to WN, the others were used frames WN acquired in the mid-late 90s. I believe N657SW is the oldest plane operated by any US airline, delivered 3 May 1985!

I flew in a Boeing 733 when I flew Southwest from New Orleans to Columbus Ohio July 23,It was a direct flight with a stop in Nashville.On the way down July 18 I flew in a Boeing 737-700 from CMH-ATL and ATL-MSY

Adipasquale wrote:

us330 wrote:

They are some of the oldest aircraft in Southwest's fleet--only two 737-300s are older (N354SW and N356SW).

Not to nitpick, but I see seven active 733s that are older than the oldest 735. N657SW, N658SW, N340LV, N697SW, N317WN, N354SW, and N356SW. 354 and 356 are the oldest 733s originally delivered to WN, the others were used frames WN acquired in the mid-late 90s. I believe N657SW is the oldest plane operated by any US airline, delivered 3 May 1985!

No, you're fine. I was just doing it based off of what the delivery dates to the airline were on Airfleets. I should have corrected it to line numbers. How do those older used aircraft compare to the other 733s in terms of cycles?

DariusBieber wrote:

Looks like SAT-DAL will be the last Boeing 735 route for Southwest. Fitting it would be on one of the three original routes Southwest started with, the other two being SAT-HOU and HOU-DAL.

Did you read the original post with the schedule?

ELP-DAL leaves 10 minutes after SAT-DAL and gets in almost an hour later. So ELP-DAL is the last scheduled flight both by departure time and arrival time.

Now with delays...anything could be the real last flight

us330 wrote:

How do those older used aircraft compare to the other 733s in terms of cycles?

I don't know, but I'd certainly like too as well. I don't know where to find hours/cycles info for individual frames.

Why did AAL retire the 733? What replaced the 733 at AAL?

737max8 wrote:

DariusBieber wrote:

Did you read the original post with the schedule?

ELP-DAL leaves 10 minutes after SAT-DAL

Chill. It's a pretty easy mistake to make because El Paso is in Mountain Time vs. Central (Herb) Time.

How widespread was the -500 in the system at the prime of the subfleet? Wondering how far from Texas they actually flew.

alggag wrote:

Did WN even have long and thin back in 1990? In those days wasn't LAX-HOU about as long haul as they got?

DET-PHX was an originally targeted market.

Ahhhh, DET. 5090' long by 100' wide with (appropriately) a graveyard at both ends. Throw in your standard ice and snow with a stiff crosswind and - yikes.

The -500 would do NS to PHX on a reasonable day, but it was always sporty.

f18raider wrote:

How widespread was the -500 in the system at the prime of the subfleet? Wondering how far from Texas they actually flew.

They showed up everywhere. I had flights on them out of in every time zone WN serves. Had them on flights all over Texas, as well as out of MDW, RDU, PHX, TUS, the Bay Area, PDX etc.

They were nice little birds.

f18raider wrote:

How widespread was the -500 in the system at the prime of the subfleet? Wondering how far from Texas they actually flew.

According to planespotters.net, WN had a max of 25 735s, and I believe somebody earlier noted they were mostly used on longer routes until the NGs came along.

The 737-700 is the long haul aircraft of the NG's, I did not know that the 500 had more than DEN-OAK kind of range, because those are the kind of routes UA used them on. I've flown 737-700's SEA-EWR, SNA-HNL, EWR-SJC but all my 500 experiences have been under 3 hours. What US carriers flew the longest 500 route? What was the range difference between the 300 & 500?

hOMSaR wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Why get rid of the 735s when there are still 733s in the fleet? I thought the 735 was for routes that were too thin for a 733. How long will the 733s remain?

The 735 was for longer flights for which the 733 did not have the range. When the 737-700 was introduced, that was no longer an issue.

No the 735's were purchased to replace 732's on thin routes that 733 would be to big for. Whn they purchesed the 735's they were still doing short hops & mot transcons. Range was never the reason for them. The 735 was launched in1987 with southwest as a launch customer. The 733 was launched in 1984 with southwest as launch customer.

737tanker wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Why get rid of the 735s when there are still 733s in the fleet? I thought the 735 was for routes that were too thin for a 733. How long will the 733s remain?

The -500s were delivered before the -300s and were intended to replace the -200s. When Herb and the rest of the WN Management team realized that it cost the same to operate the -300 as the -500, but the -300 could hold 15 more passengers, they only took delivery of 25 -500s .
As for the -300s they are all supposed to be gone by the 2nd quarter of 2017.

Southwest was launch customer for the 300 & 500 series. The 300's were launched in 1984 & the 500 was launched 1987. Between them the longer 400 series was launched by US air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_Classic

DfwRevolution wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Why didn't WN order the 736?

Because the 73G has trans-continental range, better seat-mile costs, and the seating capacity is interchangeable with the 733.

Long/thin is indeed a relative measure for WN in the 90s. Perhaps some of our WN old timers can chime in on some of the original routings.

Southwest concentraited 735's on Texas routes & to the connecting states allowed from Love Field back then. They were ment to replace 737-200's that were being retired due to noise issues and routes that the 737-300 was considered to large for. It was never about range for southwest as they were not doing transcon when it was delivered and it only offered 132nm additional range. Southwest longest route in April 1990 was PHX-DTW only 1452nm so no it was not to fly routes longer then the 733 could do.

Southwest route map 1990: https://www.google.com/search?q=Southwe ... QMU5pQM%3A

flyingclrs727 wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Why didn't WN order the 736?

Too heavy. The 736 is less efficient than a 735, because it has the new NG wing, heavier landing gear, and heavier engines.

So did the 737-700. The 737-600 lost more than the 737-700 did vs the 737-300 because they never tuned/thinned any of the wing/skin panels for the needed weights. When they did the older 500 series it had thiiner panels to save weight. As a result the fuel burn between 735 & 736 was farther apart than for the 733 to 73G series. This made the cost per seat to close between the 736 & 73G so airlines just purchased the larger model.

Adipasquale wrote:

us330 wrote:

They are some of the oldest aircraft in Southwest's fleet--only two 737-300s are older (N354SW and N356SW).

Not to nitpick, but I see seven active 733s that are older than the oldest 735. N657SW, N658SW, N340LV, N697SW, N317WN, N354SW, and N356SW. 354 and 356 are the oldest 733s originally delivered to WN, the others were used frames WN acquired in the mid-late 90s. I believe N657SW is the oldest plane operated by any US airline, delivered 3 May 1985!

Only because Delta took over the 717 leases and sold their DC-9-50's.

us330 wrote:

Adipasquale wrote:

us330 wrote:

They are some of the oldest aircraft in Southwest's fleet--only two 737-300s are older (N354SW and N356SW).

Not to nitpick, but I see seven active 733s that are older than the oldest 735. N657SW, N658SW, N340LV, N697SW, N317WN, N354SW, and N356SW. 354 and 356 are the oldest 733s originally delivered to WN, the others were used frames WN acquired in the mid-late 90s. I believe N657SW is the oldest plane operated by any US airline, delivered 3 May 1985!

No, you're fine. I was just doing it based off of what the delivery dates to the airline were on Airfleets. I should have corrected it to line numbers. How do those older used aircraft compare to the other 733s in terms of cycles?

They used to buy older 733 models with lower cycles to replace the high cycle units. Now they do the same with used 73g's.

Even better the 1984 route map.

http://airchive.com/blog/wp-content/upl ... y_7155.jpg

Adipasquale wrote:

f18raider wrote:

How widespread was the -500 in the system at the prime of the subfleet? Wondering how far from Texas they actually flew.

According to planespotters.net, WN had a max of 25 735s, and I believe somebody earlier noted they were mostly used on longer routes until the NGs came along.

They must have really piled on the cycles then after the NGs came online then. I'm looking at N520SW which has about 74,000 hours but 70,000 cycles, or just barely over 1 hour 3 minutes per flight.

More recent times they were mostly Texas flights.

It was always great to recently fly on these 735s, as they have the older interiors with more leg room. There was a stretch where quite a few flights Bay Area-PHX was on the 735s.

Why didn't WN order the 752?

blacksoviet wrote:

Why didn't WN order the 752?

Because the 757 is a totally different aircraft from the 737. It has a different cockpit requiring a different pool of pilots. It requires all different spare parts and maintenance schedules. It also doesn't fit the requirements for Southwest's style of operations. The 737 is lighter and optimal for flying the shorter routes they fly.

Why did WN retire the 727s? Were these ADV models?

The 737-500 was dubbed the Orange County Queen! For a majority of its time at WN she was the sole aircraft used by WN at SNA. But once the 737-700 came online it marked the start of the end of 737-500 at SNA by WN. The final blow came when WN was able to grandfather in the 737-300 on the same Noise ticket for SNA operations to capitalize on available slots other airlines were giving back.
But it was also came at the same time WN decided to add cargo and mail service to SNA. But chasing cargo and mail revenue ended up making the 737-500 and 300's way too Heavy. They would screamed out of SNA braking all the Noise monitors. The country of Orange pulled the operation approval process for both the 737-500/300 on WN.
This forced to WN to make SNA a 737-700 only airport until the addition of the 737-800 to the fleet.

Once WN saw the short field success of the 737-700 at SNA it eventually made BUR a 737-700 only airport.
This killed most 737-500 operations on the west coast.
LAX still had its fair share of DAL-ELP-LAX-SMF runs for aircraft and overnight engine washing in SMF.
But other than that they became the Texas two stepper!

Happy trails 737-500 happy trails!

Flyguy

blacksoviet wrote:

Why did WN retire the 727s? Were these ADV models?

The few 727-200s operated briefly by WN were short-term leases. They never planned to keep those aircraft.

[*]

Viscount724 wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

Why did WN retire the 727s? Were these ADV models?

The few 727-200s operated briefly by WN were short-term leases. They never planned to keep those aircraft.

The ex BN 727-200's were used to expand service to the west coast while WN waited for additional 737-300's to be delivered. I think they were flown by former BN pilots. Once WN had enough 737's, they got rid of the 727's. WN confirmed that they didn't want to operate multiple aircraft types, because of the extra expense to crew and maintain different types.