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Mumrik
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Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:06 pm

Don't know if it's alreaddy discussed here but could not find anything on this topic.

Yes the old heavy 6 engines beast will get a new shot at life with a production line planed to open in China.

ch-aviation report that the second Mriya frame will be completed and later a new production line will open in China under license from Antonov.

Article:
http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... n-in-china
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:12 pm

Waow! That's news (if true).
I wonder how they want to transport the existing fuselage to China. There is a nice picture of it in our database but posting a picture with my iPhone is a PITA...
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:35 pm

ch-aviation got their picture wrong, thats an AN124.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:44 pm

I can't imagine what anyone would need with more than two frames, especially now that the 747-8 has brought payload capacity of "normal" aircraft up to 140 t.

These are astonishingly expensive to operate and only need to be brought in when there is NO other option to move something that weighs between 150 and 240 t (the 140-150 range is covered by the An-124). If you can take it apart, it'll be cheaper to take it apart and move it with 747s or 777s. If you can wait a few weeks, it'll be way cheaper to ship it by sea.
Last edited by seabosdca on Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MEA-707
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:45 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
ch-aviation got their picture wrong, thats an AN124.

Ch-Aviation always does that! They just pull a picture from the archives of the airline they write about but it's almost always the wrong type. I like their newsletters. "Ariana leases in a 747" without even checking I already know they put a picture of an Ariana Airbus 310 as the header.
 
A388
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:06 pm

Interesting, I wonder which cargo airline is interested in this beast of a cargo aircraft. The AN225 is definitely intended for very big, heavy and oversized cargo as already pointed out so that market is very small in my opinion. Even so, bring it on!!!


A388
 
n92r03
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:10 pm

Here are a couple more links, one in English and the other in Russian (I think). Russian link has more info.

http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php ... craft.html

http://www.technosotnya.com/2016/08/Per ... jcami.html
 
WIederling
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:50 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I can't imagine what anyone would need with more than two frames, especially now that the 747-8 has brought payload capacity of "normal" aircraft up to 140 t.


Yeah sure, Boeing bla, bla .. :-)

What is the biggest (by weight, by volume) single piece of freight that you can actually load into a 747 in any meaningfull way?
 
SteinarN
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:57 pm

These planes also can land on gravel runways I seem to remeber having read. They have a huge number of wheels so the pavement(gravel) loading is fairly low.
 
yhu
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:01 pm

WIederling wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I can't imagine what anyone would need with more than two frames, especially now that the 747-8 has brought payload capacity of "normal" aircraft up to 140 t.


Yeah sure, Boeing bla, bla .. :-)

What is the biggest (by weight, by volume) single piece of freight that you can actually load into a 747 in any meaningfull way?


If I remember correctly, the 747 also requires loading equipment to load said freight. You can literally just drive a tank on to the AN225.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:10 pm

Oh the Chinese are involved now.
Then sorry, but it will never ever happen.

I think that it was in 2011 China and Russia finalised a deal to jointly design and build a MI-26 replacement, an even heavier helicopter.
It's 5 years later now and in June 2016 they finalised a contract to build a thinned down version of the same helicopter, now less capable than the MI26.
Every year they seem to finalise a new contract about the same projects and nothing ever materializes. Contracts are supposed to make money start moving but the money doesn't ever move, so they start negotiating new contracts.
In the meanwhile, the Earth keeps revolving around itself and around the sun, many times over and nothing ever seems to happen.

Then China and Russia started cooperatig on a widebody project.
3 years later today, the only thing that seems to have changed is the shape of the models that they are displaying to advertise it.
Here too, agreement after agreement, nothing seems to be happening.

I can promise you that in 5 years time, it's much more likely that there will be zero AN225's flying than there will be 2 AN225's flying.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:23 pm

What is the payload for a C17? I wonder if some will ever going to a civil operation as some C-130s have (Lynden)
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:31 pm

32andBelow wrote:
What is the payload for a C17? I wonder if some will ever going to a civil operation as some C-130s have (Lynden)

170,000 lbs for the C-17. A little over half of what a 747-8 can do. Unrefueled range with max payload isn't really all that impressive, either.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:32 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Oh the Chinese are involved now.
Then sorry, but it will never ever happen.

It's a HKG-based company, not a mainland one.... so your dismissal isn't exactly warranted.
 
itisi
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:29 pm

Here we go with the anti China comments.... Let's see what happens and keep the stupid comments quiet.

Russia and China have built plenty of planes together in the past.

There are 124's sitting about after the collapse of Polet... Did anyone take those aircraft?

As for the 747, I think some thing the 747 is this magical jet that can do anything.... It has many limitations on where it can land, how big it can load via the nose or side door and that's assuming they even have loading equipment to lift it!

Can't wait to see another 225 produced... Hope it happens.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:49 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I can't imagine what anyone would need with more than two frames, especially now that the 747-8 has brought payload capacity of "normal" aircraft up to 140 t.

These are astonishingly expensive to operate and only need to be brought in when there is NO other option to move something that weighs between 150 and 240 t (the 140-150 range is covered by the An-124). If you can take it apart, it'll be cheaper to take it apart and move it with 747s or 777s. If you can wait a few weeks, it'll be way cheaper to ship it by sea.


I don't know about the An-225, but the An-124's don't seem to be in super high demand. Those coming to visit Paine Field often stay parked there for several days, I presume because it's cheaper to put crew up in a hotel and fly straight to the next scheduled pickup location than it is to fly back to their home airport in between. Regardless, they spend a lot of days not generating revenue, but their crews, maintenance staff, and facility leases still have to be paid.

Waterbomber wrote:
Oh the Chinese are involved now.
Then sorry, but it will never ever happen.


China has had plenty of hiccoughs and slow starts developing their own aircraft designs, but they have completed a few like J-10, and they have several times successfully started production of existing designs within their country, one of the most recent being the J-11, a licensed Chinese produced version of the Su-27.

Just as significantly, if these plans with the An-225 turn out to be real, they will probably be partnering closely with Antonov. It's doubtful they'd be going at it alone.
 
aircatalonia
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:52 pm

How many pilots are type-rated to fly this monster? If this happens it will be interesting to see who they pick and how they train them.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:00 am

WIederling wrote:
What is the biggest (by weight, by volume) single piece of freight that you can actually load into a 747 in any meaningfull way?


A large whale? It's been done.

The 747 needs lifting equipment, but it can do long, large, or odd-shaped items OK, between the nose door and the very large side cargo door.

And the 747-8's payload capacity is only a bit less than that of an An-124... which is, I think, partly why An-124 operators have struggled since 747-8F were delivered in volume.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:14 am

Does this threaten the 747 production line?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:04 am

That would be something. An AN225NEO perhaps? Western engines, western electronics. Two crew cockpit, instead of a zillion. How big would the marked be, 25 tops?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:08 am

itisi wrote:
As for the 747, I think some thing the 747 is this magical jet that can do anything.... It has many limitations on where it can land, how big it can load via the nose or side door

....and you're forgetting the most important thing of all: how many people still actually WANT it. :-P
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:10 am

@ Blacksoviet: of course not... I cannot believe that this monster will be as fuel-efficient as a B748f.
 
anrec80
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:50 am

LAX772LR wrote:
It's a HKG-based company, not a mainland one.... so your dismissal isn't exactly warranted.

Ahh - so it's even more interesting - who's really behind it that's interested in this purchase?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:58 am

One wonders why they went for the 225 and not the 124.
 
anrec80
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:00 am

iamlucky13 wrote:

Just as significantly, if these plans with the An-225 turn out to be real, they will probably be partnering closely with Antonov. It's doubtful they'd be going at it alone.


I think Antonov's days are numbered. There is simply no engineering school or manufacturing left. Whoever is buying An-225, is interested in Antonov's technologies in building large planes and some know-hows. This buyer also bought copyrights and production documentation on it. Looks like Kiev regime is eager to auction away the leftovers of the heritage they got 25 years ago. We'll always remember their planes - most of them were really unique. Antonov Design Bureau is one of the last great things they had left from USSR. Now they are moving towards "agricultural superpower" - a concept also known as "banana republic".
 
luv2cattlecall
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:44 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
. Those coming to visit Paine Field often stay parked there for several days, I presume because


Out of curiosity, what does Boeing have flown in on the 124s?

Any estimates as to what an SFO-HKG (or pick any other route) charter would cost on a 124 vs a 225 vs a 747-8F?
 
WIederling
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:54 am

anrec80 wrote:
Auction away the leftovers of the heritage they got 25 years ago. We'll always remember their planes - most of them were really unique. Antonov Design Bureau is one of the last great things they had left from USSR. Now they are moving towards "agricultural superpower" - a concept also known as "banana republic".


[*] Antonov was a _russian_ design bureau. Transfered to Ukraine to give some substance and new life to the bombed out
industry there after WWII.

[*] Agricultural production has halved from soviet times. ( and the slack has been taken up by the US.)

[*] The current administration aided by their US "friends" is a magnitude more corrupt than the
previous set of grafters. Trying to cut some last slightly smelly "filet" from the rotting carcass that today's Ukraine is.

... Hm, listing items vial [*] doesn't work?
 
soyuz
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:39 am

When something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I think every aircraft enthusiast would love to see a second Mriya in the skies. The reality is that even just the sole example spends much of its time patiently waiting on the ground in Kiev. It is a super niche aircraft. To say that this production resumption contract is ambitious is an understatement. I'd love to see the 2nd one built. Perhaps with updated avionics and a pair of GE90-115s hanging from each wing instead of 6 of the old D-18Ts. (One can dream). But given Antonov's recent track record (multiple failed talks of 124 production resumption, the fiasco that is the AN70), Ukraine's current situation, the issue of Russian components and intellectual property with respect to the Mriya and Ruslan aircraft, I will eat my hat if this contract doesn't fizzle out into oblivion. Gladly.
In answer to a question about the ex-Polet Ruslans, a couple have gone to Volga-Dnepr, I'm not sure about the rest. There is a reasonably up to date database on russianplanes.net
 
VSMUT
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:44 am

Waterbomber wrote:
Oh the Chinese are involved now.
I think that it was in 2011 China and Russia finalised a deal to jointly design and build a MI-26 replacement, an even heavier helicopter.
It's 5 years later now and in June 2016 they finalised a contract to build a thinned down version of the same helicopter, now less capable than the MI26.
Every year they seem to finalise a new contract about the same projects and nothing ever materializes. Contracts are supposed to make money start moving but the money doesn't ever move, so they start negotiating new contracts.
In the meanwhile, the Earth keeps revolving around itself and around the sun, many times over and nothing ever seems to happen.

Then China and Russia started cooperatig on a widebody project.
3 years later today, the only thing that seems to have changed is the shape of the models that they are displaying to advertise it.
Here too, agreement after agreement, nothing seems to be happening.

I can promise you that in 5 years time, it's much more likely that there will be zero AN225's flying than there will be 2 AN225's flying.


This is just the Chinese way of doing things. How much did anyone hear about the C919, ARJ-21, Y-20, J-20 and J-31 before the first flight (or rollout)? Typically there are only a few blurry CGIs and a few statements in Chinese press. To make matters worse (from the enthusiasts point of view), both the new heavylift helicopter and the An-225 are obviously military projects, hence they are even more secretive about them. The helicopter project is also being held up by lack of a suitable engine, which the Russians are working on.

Then there's the timeline. The CH-53K took 8 years from selection to it's first unveiling, and an additional year to it's first flight. IOC won't be before 2019. At the very least, expect the Chinese to have a very similar timeline, if not longer.

I think you are correct when you say that no new An-225s will be flying in 5 years. Looking at previous attempts to transfer production from one country to another, I think at least 8-10 years must be expected, especially if China decides to fit an indigenous engine design and a new flight deck/2-man cockpit.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:48 am

Also mentioned on Antonov facebook. https://www.facebook.com/antonov.compan ... 3179182645
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:10 am

N14AZ wrote:
Waow! That's news (if true).
I wonder how they want to transport the existing fuselage to China. There is a nice picture of it in our database but posting a picture with my iPhone is a PITA...

Here you go...

Image

Image

Have fun transporting this fuselage to China....
 
coolum
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:16 am

luv2cattlecall wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
. Those coming to visit Paine Field often stay parked there for several days, I presume because


Out of curiosity, what does Boeing have flown in on the 124s?

Any estimates as to what an SFO-HKG (or pick any other route) charter would cost on a 124 vs a 225 vs a 747-8F?


I met a guy a couple of years ago when I got to see the AN225 up close.
He advised that it was chartered to fly from the Ukraine to the UAE with Oil Equipment.
He said usually it would be sent by ship, but his client needed it in a hurry.

4 x pieces of equipment weighing around 45 tonnes each and it cost approx $1.5mil for the charter.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:17 am

N14AZ wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Waow! That's news (if true).
I wonder how they want to transport the existing fuselage to China. There is a nice picture of it in our database but posting a picture with my iPhone is a PITA...

Here you go...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/air ... 759372.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/air ... 658109.jpg

Have fun transporting this fuselage to China....


According to the FB post, it will be completed at the An factory in Ukraine. Then if there will be more frames built, they will be built/assembled in China.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:22 am

WIederling wrote:
... Hm, listing items vial [*] doesn't work?

[off-topic mode]
  • you
  • have to
  • open and close
  1. a "list" (for bullets)
  2. or a "list=1", "list=a", "list=i", etc. (for numbered lists)
  1. before
  2. you use
  1. the * mark
  2. to separate the points
[/off-topic mode]
 
WIederling
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:36 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
...

thanks for the hint!
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:52 pm

soyuz wrote:
I'd love to see the 2nd one built. Perhaps with updated avionics and a pair of GE90-115s hanging from each wing instead of 6 of the old D-18Ts.

Interesting thought - I wonder how possible it would be to hang four engines rather than six from a structural perspective.

V/F
 
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Revelation
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:56 pm

I think we'll see a new Spruce Goose before we see a new Sino-Ukranian-Russian AN-225.

To me it seems to be an exercise in vanity and an enormous waste of resources.

Why not put your energy into building something the world really needs?
 
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neutrino
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:01 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Waow! That's news (if true).
I wonder how they want to transport the existing fuselage to China. There is a nice picture of it in our database but posting a picture with my iPhone is a PITA...

Here you go...

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/air ... 759372.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/air ... 658109.jpg

Have fun transporting this fuselage to China....


According to the FB post, it will be completed at the An factory in Ukraine. Then if there will be more frames built, they will be built/assembled in China.

Sigh! Yes, some folks just post without really reading and comprehending first anymore, It was mentioned by the OP and yet....
Mumrik wrote:
ch-aviation report that the second Mriya frame will be completed and later a new production line will open in China under license from Antonov.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:25 pm

Here's hoping it will happen!

Unlikely, unfortunately....
 
Sooner787
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:45 pm

I wonder if they could re-engineer the wing to handle 4 engines?

Surely, engines available today could power that behemoth
plus improve the economics
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
I think we'll see a new Spruce Goose before we see a new Sino-Ukranian-Russian AN-225.

To me it seems to be an exercise in vanity and an enormous waste of resources.

Why not put your energy into building something the world really needs?


I'd put money on the Chinese buying the jigs and production equipment for their own uses, just like when they would buy whole factories and equipment back in Michigan, with everything inside leaving in containers. A little knowhow is an added bonus.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:35 pm

luv2cattlecall wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
. Those coming to visit Paine Field often stay parked there for several days, I presume because


Out of curiosity, what does Boeing have flown in on the 124s?

Any estimates as to what an SFO-HKG (or pick any other route) charter would cost on a 124 vs a 225 vs a 747-8F?


I've never had the leisure to sit and watch one be unloaded, but I've heard a couple things. Seattle Times at one point reported they were bringing in large 747-8 structures from Triumph that were behind schedule. I've also heard 777 engines are occasionally shipped fully assembled by An-124, as opposed to by truck or in two pieces aboard a 747 or 777 freighter.

My employer once had some large equipment shipped by An-124 that the customer was willing to pay to get it delivered in a hurry. I want to say the price was in the rough ballpark of 1/2 million US dollars, but I don't remember for certain.

seahawk wrote:
One wonders why they went for the 225 and not the 124.


There are roughly two dozen An-124's in civilian service, and as I mentioned above, they don't seem to be in high demand. It does not appear the civilian air cargo market needs any more of them.

There's only one An-225, so if you've got something that won't fit in an An-124, it needs to go somewhere in a hurry, and the Mriya is already booked, you're out of luck. The main question is whether or not that happens often enough to cover the presumably rather high costs of finishing the second aircraft, much less building more of them at extremely low volumes.

I suppose another alternative possibility is the Chinese military has decided they need a few, but I struggle to think for what that An-124's couldn't handle.

I'm skeptical though. We all want it to happen, so many of us are tempted to elevate vague rumors to progressively greater degrees of certainty, but until much more concrete information comes out, I'm not getting my hopes up.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
I think we'll see a new Spruce Goose before we see a new Sino-Ukranian-Russian AN-225.

To me it seems to be an exercise in vanity and an enormous waste of resources.

Why not put your energy into building something the world really needs?


This is obviously a military project. It will allow China to ferry massive amounts of equipment to its offshore airbases in the South China Sea, or help keep various African clients in line. It has the potential to airlift 5 main battle tanks into Africa in less than a day. Imagine the power projection a fleet of just 10 of these will allow China to do. This fits perfectly in line with all the aircraft carriers, LPDs and 15.000 ton coast guard cutters China is so busy building, and Chinese policy towards resource rich, underdeveloped nations in general.

iamlucky13 wrote:
I suppose another alternative possibility is the Chinese military has decided they need a few, but I struggle to think for what that An-124's couldn't handle.


True, but China doesn't have any An-124's. The options available for China are as follows:

Develop it's own very large airlifter at great expense.
Join the Russian attempt at restarting An-124 production.
Buy some worn out An-124s with limited lifespan.
Limit itself to the Il-76/C-17 sized Y-20.
Buy the An-225 from Ukraine for cheap, along with everything needed to build more aircraft at a later point.

The An-225 may very well be the most affordable and viable (in terms of longevity) project of those.

:)
 
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Ty134A
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:25 pm

yhu wrote:
WIederling wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I can't imagine what anyone would need with more than two frames, especially now that the 747-8 has brought payload capacity of "normal" aircraft up to 140 t.


Yeah sure, Boeing bla, bla .. :-)

What is the biggest (by weight, by volume) single piece of freight that you can actually load into a 747 in any meaningfull way?


If I remember correctly, the 747 also requires loading equipment to load said freight. You can literally just drive a tank on to the AN225.



I worked on a few IL-76, AN-12 and AN-124s. The size of the AN-124 is much bigger than one would assume, and the flexibility outperforms everything you possibly could offer with a B747. We once loaded tanks onto a 124, and I thought that they won't ever fit... well they did, side by side and with comfortable space in between for walking. The floor of the AN-124 is stainless steel, and the crane on top can lift a few metric tons of cargo. Sorry, but the B747 is the aircraft of choice for flying ULD cargo day in and day out, but when it comes to a real job, you need an Antonov!
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:07 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
I wonder if they could re-engineer the wing to handle 4 engines?

Surely, engines available today could power that behemoth
plus improve the economics


The Trent XWB could do it. The aircraft as is today has about 260,000 lbs. of thrust with one engine out. So if you wanted to use four engines they would have to be in about the 90k class. You might also need design changes to the tails for more rudder authority in case of an outboard engine failing.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5742
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:32 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think we'll see a new Spruce Goose before we see a new Sino-Ukranian-Russian AN-225.

To me it seems to be an exercise in vanity and an enormous waste of resources.

Why not put your energy into building something the world really needs?


This is obviously a military project. It will allow China to ferry massive amounts of equipment to its offshore airbases in the South China Sea, or help keep various African clients in line. It has the potential to airlift 5 main battle tanks into Africa in less than a day. Imagine the power projection a fleet of just 10 of these will allow China to do. This fits perfectly in line with all the aircraft carriers, LPDs and 15.000 ton coast guard cutters China is so busy building, and Chinese policy towards resource rich, underdeveloped nations in general.

iamlucky13 wrote:
I suppose another alternative possibility is the Chinese military has decided they need a few, but I struggle to think for what that An-124's couldn't handle.


True, but China doesn't have any An-124's. The options available for China are as follows:

Develop it's own very large airlifter at great expense.
Join the Russian attempt at restarting An-124 production.
Buy some worn out An-124s with limited lifespan.
Limit itself to the Il-76/C-17 sized Y-20.
Buy the An-225 from Ukraine for cheap, along with everything needed to build more aircraft at a later point.

The An-225 may very well be the most affordable and viable (in terms of longevity) project of those.

:)

Why would you spend billions for this? You can fly several smaller planes at the same time, or just put massive things on a ship.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10041
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:29 am

32andBelow wrote:
Why would you spend billions for this? You can fly several smaller planes at the same time, or just put massive things on a ship.


China is mostly land bound. .. and like Japan quite a bit of the landmass is difficult to access.
having an "UltraHauler" for infrastructure projects could be very usefull.
( Don't limit your view to "single track mind" conceptions of military power projection.
China is very busy in actually helping developing nations and not just using them
as political toys. Expecially the US ( and most western nations too ) have done endless
damage that way).
 
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OA940
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:51 am

I see a FedEx order coming...
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 2862
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:24 am

seabosdca wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
I wondeIr if they could re-engineer the wing to handle 4 engines?

Surely, engines available today could power that behemoth
plus improve the economics


The Trent XWB could do it. The aircraft as is today has about 260,000 lbs. of thrust with one engine out. So if you wanted to use four engines they would have to be in about the 90k class. You might also need design changes to the tails for more rudder authority in case of an outboard engine failing.


But if the Chinese intend to use these planes for military purposes, I doubt the US or UK would allow export licenses to power an Antonov Mriya 225. If they had to depend on domestically developed engines, the Chinese would probably opt for 6 engines.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Antonov 225 Mriya, production resumption

Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:46 am

32andBelow wrote:
Why would you spend billions for this? You can fly several smaller planes at the same time, or just put massive things on a ship.


Ships take a long time, and can't go inland. Using Africa as an example again, sailing a cargo vessel to East Africa will take about 2 weeks. With West Africa you are looking at a full month at sea. Most of Africa is landlocked. There are 16 landlocked countries in Africa. Even among the nations that border the ocean, actual roads inland are few and often in a horrible condition.

The smaller Y-20 has it's own limitations. It can barely lift a fully equipped main battle tank, and there is a lot of equipment that is bigger and/or heavier than that. If the destination airfield only has a runway/no apron, then you can only get one aircraft in at a time.

You could also ask why the USAF finds a need to operate a fleet of 52x C-5Ms, despite having a fleet of 223 C-17s ;) I would bet that China needs it for the same reasons :)


flyingclrs727 wrote:
But if the Chinese intend to use these planes for military purposes, I doubt the US or UK would allow export licenses to power an Antonov Mriya 225. If they had to depend on domestically developed engines, the Chinese would probably opt for 6 engines.


I doubt anyone would look at reducing the amount of engines to 4, even if they did have the engines. It's just begging for structural problems and fatigue cracks. You need to redesign the wings and wingbox to compensate for the increased wing-bending moment. You also have to redesign the vertical fins, to compensate for the increase in yaw in case of a single engine failure on takeoff.

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