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TK787
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Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:45 am

Happy September Turkish Aviation fans,

Let’s continue from where we left off. I imagine the biggest news is TK’s recent loss and reductions:

-As reported by Routesonline, massive frequency reductions at Turkish Airlines for Winter 2017:
[i]"Istanbul Ataturk – Bari Reduce from 4 to 3 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Basel/Mulhouse Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Bilbao Reduce from previously planned 4 to 2 weekly (5 weekly in summer)
Istanbul Ataturk – Birmingham Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly (12 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Ataturk – Bremen Reduce from 10 to 7 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Budapest Reduce from 3 to 2 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Catania Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Cologne Reduce from 21 to 19 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Copenhagen Reduce from 3 to 2 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Dublin Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Edinburgh Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Ekaterinburg Reduce from 4 to 2 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Frankfurt Reduce from 28 to 25 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Graz Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Hamburg Reduce from 4 to 3 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Hanover Reduce from 3 to 2 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Kazan Reduce from 4 to 3 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Leipzig Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Lisbon Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – London Gatwick Reduce from 3 to 2 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Luxembourg Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Lyon Reduce from 14 to 12 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Madrid Reduce from 3 to 2 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Manchester Reduce from 19 to 14 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Marseille Reduce from 10 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Munich Reduce from 35 to 25 weekly (28 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Ataturk – Naples Reduce from 10 to 7 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Nice Reduce from 8 to 5 weekly (7 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Ataturk – Novosibirsk Reduce from 3 to 2 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Nuremberg Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Pristina Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Riga Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Rome Reduce from 4 to 3 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – St. Petersburg Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Salzburg Reduce from 8 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Sarajevo Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Sofia Reduce from 3 to 2 daily (18 weekly in W15 from 28DEC15)
Istanbul Ataturk – Stavropol Reduce from 3 to 2 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Stuttgart Reduce from 4 to 3 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Tallinn Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Thessaloniki Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Toulouse Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Valencia Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Vilnius Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Zagreb Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Zaporizhia Reduce from 4 to 3 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Barcelona Reduce from 6 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Dusseldorf Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly (9 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Frankfurt Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly (9 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – London Gatwick Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Milan Malpensa Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Munich Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly (11 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Rome Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Vienna Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly

Following routes sees frequency reduction, however the revised frequency is identical to W15 season:
Istanbul Ataturk – Barcelona Reduce from 25 to 21 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Kiev Borispil Reduce from 14 to 13 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Malta Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Paris CDG Reduce from 5 to 4 daily
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Amsterdam Increase from 7 to 9 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Cologne Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly

Following routes sees frequency reduction, however the revised frequency remains an overall increase when compared to W15:
Ankara – Jeddah Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly (No operation in W15)
Ankara – Madinah Reduce from 7 to 3 weekly (No operation in W15)
Istanbul Ataturk – Porto Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly (4 weekly in W15)
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Berlin Tegel Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly (No operation in W15)
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Brussels Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly (No operation in W15)

Following routes converted from year-round to summer-seasonal for 2016/17, meaning no operations from 30OCT16 to 25MAR17 (frequency listed below is based on schedule filing as of 19AUG16):
Ankara – Berlin Tegel Previously planned 2 weekly
Ankara – Frankfurt Previously planned 3 weekly
Ankara – Vienna Previously planned 2 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Bordeaux Previously planned 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Friedrichshafen Previously planned 7 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Genoa Previously planned 3 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Ivano-Frankivsk Previously planned 7 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden Previously planned 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Muenster Previously planned 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Pisa Previously planned 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Rotterdam Previously planned 7 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Baku Previously planned 7 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Erbil Previously planned 4 weekly
Istanbul Sabiha Gokcen – Venice Previously planned 4 weekly"
Istanbul Ataturk – Abuja Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, which is identical to winter 2015/16 frequencies
Istanbul Ataturk – Ashgabat Reduce from 12 to 7 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Astrakhan Planned restoration of 3rd weekly flight is cancelled
Istanbul Ataturk – Baku Reduce from 4 to 3 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Dammam Reduce from 10 to 9 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Doha Reduce from 14 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Guangzhou Reduce from 7 to 6 weekly during selected periods from 01SEP16 to 31DEC16
Istanbul Ataturk – Kuwait City Reduce from 16 to 14 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Los Angeles Reduce from 11 to 7 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Najaf Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Nakchivan – Ganja – Istanbul Ataturk Reduce from 3 to 2 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – New York JFK Reduce from 3 to 2 daily. In addition, preliminary scheduling for summer 2017 season from 26MAR17 displays 4 weekly Boeing 777-300ER from 27MAR17 to 27MAY17, 10 weekly from 29MAY17.
Istanbul Ataturk – Sharm el Sheikh Previously not covered, TK will resume this route from 10SEP16, initially 4 times a week. Service increases to daily from 30OCT16

Following routes converted from year-round to summer-seasonal for 2016/17, meaning no operations from 30OCT16 to 25MAR17:
Istanbul Ataturk – Aqaba Previously planned 3 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Gassim Previously planned 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Osh Previously planned 3 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Tlemcen – Batna – Istanbul Ataturk Previously planned 2 weekly

Previously reported changes:
Istanbul Ataturk – Atlanta Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Hanoi – Ho Chi Minh City – Istanbul Ataturk Increase from 2 to 3 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Ho Chi Minh City – Hanoi – Istanbul Ataturk Increase from 3 to 4 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Jakarta Boeing 777-300ER replaces A330-200, 1 daily
Istanbul Ataturk – Johannesburg – Durban Northern winter service increases from 3 to 5 weekly, A330-300 service
Istanbul Ataturk – Taipei Taoyuan Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly

Istanbul Ataturk – Boston Reduce from 7 to 4 weekly, A330-300 service
Istanbul Ataturk – Houston Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, 777-300ER service
Istanbul Ataturk – Islamabad Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, A330-200 service
Istanbul Ataturk – Kermanshah – Ahwaz – Istanbul Ataturk 2 weekly service converts to summer-only operation (TK continues to operate 2 weekly flights to Ahwaz)
Istanbul Ataturk – Miami Reduce from 7 to 6 weekly, 777-300ER service
Istanbul Ataturk – Osaka Kansai Reduce from 5 to 4 weekly, A330-200 service
Istanbul Ataturk – Sao Paulo Guarulhos – Buenos Aires Ezeiza Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, 777-300ER service

Following changes were omitted from the report filed on 27AUG16:
Istanbul Ataturk – Johannesburg – Maputo Northern winter service increases from 4 to 5 weekly, A330-300 service
Istanbul Ataturk – Seoul Incheon 03NOV16 – 24DEC16 Reduce from 11 to 10 weekly
Istanbul Ataturk – Tokyo Narita 777-300ER continues to operate on daily basis (A330 in W15)
Istanbul Ataturk – Washington Dulles Service operates 7 weekly, identical to W15. (S16 frequency is 10 weekly, however previously filed as seasonal increase)

Previously reported changes (these are highlighted as adjustments made in early summer season):
Istanbul Ataturk – Atlanta Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, 777-300ER service (service adjusted in April 2016)
Istanbul Ataturk – Taipei Taoyuan Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly, 777-300ER service (adjusted in May 2016)”
[/i]

Besides that expected news:
-We probably will see from TK a combination of; personnel layoffs, delivery postponements, route closures and airplane type retirements (340/older 737-320s) and even leasing some excess capacity.
-I would like to hear what you all think if we see similar steps with other airlines, starting with Pegasus, which received its 3rd 320NEO recently.
-With the opening of the new Istanbul airport is presumably only 18 months away, the Northern Istanbul Expressway with the 3rd. Bosphorus Bridge opened to traffic recently.
-It was reported that TK is about to open a Lounge at IAD, any news?
-Rize airport got the go ahead to be built over water. Not sure if it was necessary but the President being born there, he might want to do this favor for his fellow neighbors. My mom is also from that area and still have relatives there. I am sure they are happy instead of driving to Trabzon to catch a ride :)
-On last month’s thread there was a question whether we will see Detroit for TK in the future?
-What do you think about AtlasGlobal's promotion of unlimited flights for 6 months for $3500?

Please continue here with your news, views, rumors, photos and good old sense of humor. Refrain from politics and personal attacks.
Airline business and tourism in general have been a fragile industry in Turkey, where it is surrounded by wars and conflicts. The current downturn shall will pass in due time, I hope.
Most importantly, I hope for a peaceful September and happy landings to all :)
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:00 am

Honestly, there is not much TK can do but to ride this until global perception of both the safety situation in Turkey and also the government's authoritarianism goes back to how it was before all this happened. There is a very strong negative sentiment against the way the country is ruled, and this results in people avoiding TK. Add to that the fear of terrorism and war and not many people want to come to Turkey or pass through it. Unfortunately this has been in the making with some unsound policies, and hopefully we will see those changed. Otherwise a shrinking TK a la MS or PK is unavoidable.
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:45 am

leftyboarder wrote:
Honestly, there is not much TK can do but to ride this until global perception of both the safety situation in Turkey and also the government's authoritarianism goes back to how it was before all this happened. There is a very strong negative sentiment against the way the country is ruled, and this results in people avoiding TK. Add to that the fear of terrorism and war and not many people want to come to Turkey or pass through it. Unfortunately this has been in the making with some unsound policies, and hopefully we will see those changed. Otherwise a shrinking TK a la MS or PK is unavoidable.


Totally agree. TK has built up a decent perception over the last few years with sponsorships and media campaigns. Of course events that happen in their own country and next door they can do little about. Another concern is the damage that will be done to how TK is used as a political mouth piece for the current rulers. It may sit well to a Domestic audience but it will quickly turn people off in a Western one.

From a personal point of view having followed TK for nearly 2 decades and enjoyed many flights on them it is a sad time. I hope they go in the right direction and eventually get back on track.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:22 am

leftyboarder wrote:
Otherwise a shrinking TK a la MS or PK is unavoidable.


I dont recall them being big quality players at any stage.
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:45 am

CanadaFair wrote:
leftyboarder wrote:
Otherwise a shrinking TK a la MS or PK is unavoidable.


I dont recall them being big quality players at any stage.


Never as big, but I was referring to them turning into a shadow of their former selves.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:55 am

There maybe be better examples, those two were and are shoddy carriers even if TK shrinks it will remain a high class airline along the lines of other shrunk carriers like JAL.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:57 am

What is happening with Pegasus, Onur Air and AtlasGlobal? No changes?

Particularly AtlasGlobal and Onur Air had recently started more scheduled flights to the Middle East and Europe trying to replicate a "hub" like Pegasus and Turkish.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:02 am

TK787 wrote:

Besides that expected news:
-We probably will see from TK a combination of; personnel layoffs, delivery postponements, route closures and airplane type retirements (340/older 737-320s) and even leasing some excess capacity.


On the A340 front, I can see one of two things happening:

-A340 retired with the slack picked up by the A330/77W or
-A340 fleet retained and the leases on some A330-200 terminated.

As far as I know, all of the A340s have recently been configured for hajj/umrah ops into JED and MED. Additionally, the 340 won't have any issues meeting climb gradients on 45C days out of Madinah like today. At the very least, the A340 fleet will survive the Hajj season to come.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:05 pm

I read the planned 3rd airport control tower design from Pininfarina and AECOM won international architecture award among list of 370 projects from the European Centre for Architecture Art Design and Urban Studies. The award will be given to the airport on 23 September event.

Image

Also I did not reliase Saudia was to commence service to Ankara. I saw this advert online.

Image
mercure f-wtcc
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:27 pm

Was just about to say that it seems most African services are jumping the reductions free, and then just noticed now that IST-JNB is reducing back to daily service (from the current 10 weekly which the 3 extra weekly services were introduced in July). The planned 5 weekly IST-JNB-DUR reverts back to 4 weekly and planned 5 weekly IST-JNB-MPM reverts back to 3 weekly.
This is now causing a problem for my folks who were planning to visit Istanbul as a stop-over en-route back from the UK...after contemplating they decided that they feel they don't need to be scared and believe to support countries when they're going through tough tourism times due to cowardly acts from individuals... First their return LGW-IST flight got cancelled earlier this week and now they arrive much much later in IST, after choosing the earlier more expensive flight just not to arrive at night at hotel as they're around their 70s. Now their IST-JNB flight is cancelled, which was the planned earlier departure (20:10) as to arrive early enough in JNB to catch a connecting flight to GRJ...now they're put on the late-night/early morning departure (01:25) which brings them in to JNB an hour later than the booked domestic flight which is non-refundable and only leave 2 later options at much higher fares. Worst of all...we only booked these TK flights last week!!! Haven't told them yet...

Seems the nonstop IST-CPT service is safe though...actually over peak times around Christmas and New Year some TK flights are full or nearly full...as is many airlines to CPT around that time...got me wondering if TK won't now consider adding some extra flights perhaps to CPT around that time since they probably now have extra aircraft/capacity available sort of?

On the other hand there's a few "new" additions also from TK...resuming Sharm-el-Sheik, and announced Zanzibar this week, not seeing it mentioned anywhere
 
SCQ83
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:31 pm

Alitalia from 30OCT16:

Roma – Istanbul Ataturk Reduce from 2 to 1 daily
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:50 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Alitalia from 30OCT16:

Roma – Istanbul Ataturk Reduce from 2 to 1 daily


Turkey and Brazil seem to be two places airlines want to drop these days! Hopefully things improve.
 
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767Forever
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:49 pm

BA677 out of IST to LHR on 1 of Sep got diverted to VIE. Does anyone know why?
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:32 am

TK787 wrote:
Happy September Turkish Aviation fans


Thanks for another thread.

TK787 wrote:
-We probably will see from TK a combination of; personnel layoffs, delivery postponements, route closures and airplane type retirements (340/older 737-320s) and even leasing some excess capacity.
-I would like to hear what you all think if we see similar steps with other airlines, starting with Pegasus, which received its 3rd 320NEO recently.


I think TK and PGS should be clever and minimise costs during this turbulent times.

As Turkey is going through this difficult period in aviation industry and we already lost the tourism for 2016, I think government should take all necessary steps and finish "operations" to end "issues" south of Turkey before year ends. Perhaps this is also a golden opportunity!

Any way, let me share with you a summary of my recent visit to 3rd Airport construction site.

By 2018, 3rd Airport is planned to be open with main terminal and 2 parallel runways (runway1 on the most west and runway2 on the west of terminal building.

Main terminal building has 5 wings (I name them as NW - northwest-, SW, Center, NE and SE).

Image

By 2020, parallel runway3 will be ready on the east side of the terminal. Other runways and satellite terminals will be ready in the second half of 2020s.

Image

The geography where 3rd Airport is built is a very difficult one with lots of small lakes, swamps and hills. When I visit the construction site, lakes on runway1,2,3 were already dried and being filled in. But lakes on future runways are staying as they are. These are the lakes on future runways4 and runway5:

Image

Image

As these lakes are part of the natural life for migratory birds especially, they keep on coming to exact location they are accustomed to come. But now, there is no more water and greenery but only huge concrete structures and dust exist at those locations. They stay for a few days in the dust and later go somewhere else. It is really sad to see all these birds insisting to come. Experts believe that in a few years time, they will adapt and find new water resources to rest while they migrate.

Another problem is the sewage system of the quickly built camp sites. As there are some 20K+ workers staying at the construction camps, their all waste water is directly pumped in to Black Sea without threatment. It is almost impossible to breath at the sea side of 3rd Airport which used to be a beautiful sandy beach a few years back. Hopefully, it will become beautiful again after the construction finishes and be favourite of plane spotters in 2020s.

Image

As I have mentioned above, there are many camp sites around the construction site(s). These camps are divided by runway numbers, building names as well as based on worker origins. They have nick names based on who stay at that camp. For example camp site where Vietnamese workers stay has a nickname of Viet Cong City, etc.

In the construction area, there are many supermarkets, caffe shops as there is a big worker population. It is not allowed to bring in alcohol. As a result, it is said that usage of drugs is wide spread.

Till I visited, there had been 23 deaths in the construction area. 11 were because of construction accidents. But the others were all kind of things including suicide, homicide, drug overdose, etc. Also note that this is a fast track project. They have no luxury to refuse any worker applicant as long as he/she is healthy. As a result, many workers are ex-prisoners, addicts, etc. Turnaround time for workers is said to be 4 months.

Here is the cafe at the main management camp where you can hear all kind of languages:

Image

Let me start with photos of the construction site now.

Below you can see south of runway1. It is already levelled and I thing by early 2017 it will be ready. The construction hole you see on the very far righthand site is the construction of ATC Tower (if I understood it right). In this case, ATC Tower is between runway1 and runway2. The hills you see behind will become runway2.

Image

Below is the photo of the north of runway2. I suppose it will be ready by summer 2017. They still need to fill in some 30m, a huge work normally. But with the machine park they have, it is an easy job. I suppose, the construction in the middle of runway2 is a tunnel for vehicles to reach facilities between runway1 and runway2.

Image

This is the south of runway2, the hills we saw from runway1 is being cleared:

Image

And this is south of runway3. It is supposed to be levelled by end of 2017 so there will be no more dust for terminal when it starts to operate. They need to remove a 50m hill by then.

Image

This is the tarmac to the north of terminal. Behind you can see the NE Wing. Center and NW Wing yet to be build after they fill in this 30m ground to level it. The hills you see behind will become runway3.

Image

This is the south of runway2. I took this photo on top of a hill which will be cleared and become level to runway2. They will remove some 20-30m. Behind you can see Terminal SW Wing.

Image

Below you can see Terminal building from south west. This is the main entrance of the terminal. Right hand side is the car park.

Image

Below is the already finished NE (or perhaps SE) Wing of the terminal. I think with this speed, terminal building outside will finish by end of 2016. But obviously there is a huge construction also inside afterwards.

Image

It is said that, around 70 high tower cranes are working in the construction site and it is a record in the world. Everything you see here is extreme numbers.

It is confidently said that, 3rd Airport will be ready on time. Maximum a delay of 3-4 months may be expected if things go unexpectedly bad. But what I saw was, it would be ready on time.
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:47 pm

Thanks a lot for all the photos and the detailed info. Do you have any idea where is all this dirt is being dumped? How about the connecting roads/rail link? Thanks.
 
bahadir
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:16 pm

Seeing all this construction I cannot help but think that TK787 should make a documentary about the whole thing and launch his directorial career :)
Earthbound misfit I
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:53 pm

TK105 wrote:
Any way, let me share with you a summary of my recent visit to 3rd Airport construction site.



Thanks for the informative and interesting post. When will the rail link be open from City- Airport?
 
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alaturka
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:16 pm

OA260 wrote:
TK105 wrote:
Any way, let me share with you a summary of my recent visit to 3rd Airport construction site.



Thanks for the informative and interesting post. When will the rail link be open from City- Airport?


Planning to finish in two phase. First one planning to finish same date when the airport openinig. Will be an extention to current Gayrettepe Metro Station and will be 6 stops between Gayrettepe to 3rd Airport. Second phase will be finished till 2021 where between 3rd Airport to Halkali as another 7 stops.

http://www.haberturk.com/ekonomi/emlak/haber/1242447-3-havalimani-metro-hatti-detaylari-belli-oldu
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:09 am

TK787 wrote:
Thanks a lot for all the photos and the detailed info. Do you have any idea where is all this dirt is being dumped? How about the connecting roads/rail link? Thanks.

Dirt is mostly used inside leveling except runways. For runway levelling they use specially threated rocks and stones transfered from long distance. Some dirt is dumped in the sea as can be seen above sea side photo.

There is already a 2x3 lane free motorway, connecting airport (construction) to Hasdal exit of TEM Motorway. It takes 15min to drive from Hasdal and 25min from Levent/Maslak to Airport in good traffic conditions. Also 3rd Bridge Ring Road connection to this free motorway is 5min drive distance to airport. Moreover a new BOT paid motorway is recently contracted (Northern Marmara Motorway) which is going through 3rd Airport. It is a 2x4 motorway. This new motorway is going to be ready by Q3-2019 according to contract. But concessioner wants to be ready by Q3-2018. Also note that concessioner of this motorway and airport are almost the same group of companies (Cengiz, Limak, Kolin). So it is for their benefit in every way to finish this motorway early.
The future is in the skies.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:55 am

Why does Turkey use Vietnamese construction workers? (??).
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:32 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Why does Turkey use Vietnamese construction workers? (??).

List is long:
Vietnamese
Georgian
Azerbaijanee
Bulgarian
Romenian
Macedonian
Polish
Turkmen
Kazakh
Surian (obviously)
Afghan
Ukranian
Russian with different ethnicities
Etc

The question is why many foreign workers: Probably these people are already experienced employee of concessioner companies in foreign construction projects and trasfered to 3rd Airport due to urgency.
The future is in the skies.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:22 pm

One of TK's next 7 A330 leases has been ferried to ZRH. Not sure where it will be painted.

Airbus A330 -343 1592 EI-FLT Intrepid Avn Partners ferried 03-04sep15 MZJ-BGR-ZRH, all wh, blue tail, for Turkish Airlines ex JA330G


Image
EI-FLT ZRH 04.09.16 by Michael Steffen, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:03 pm

TK had developed a reputation for high quality service, a rapidly advancing fleet--things were looking so bright until the present political situation took hold. We were on a cruise a couple of months ago that was supposed to stay for two days in IST but it was changed to a few hours in Kusadasi. I was really bummed. Seriously was looking forward to seeing IST but the cruise lines think safety, just like the airlines do.

I feel for the staff of TK knowing how hard they worked to achieve these results. Hopefully things will return to a more normal state quickly. Turkey relies heavily on tourist revenues and has so much culture and things of interest to see and do.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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Yakamoz
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
One of TK's next 7 A330 leases has been ferried to ZRH. Not sure where it will be painted.

Airbus A330 -343 1592 EI-FLT Intrepid Avn Partners ferried 03-04sep15 MZJ-BGR-ZRH, all wh, blue tail, for Turkish Airlines ex JA330G


Image
EI-FLT ZRH 04.09.16 by Michael Steffen, on Flickr


Paint and all maintenance of all 7 A333s by SR Technics.

http://www.srtechnics.com/datas/news/20 ... _final.pdf
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:48 pm

I was wondering when this revenue maker would be introduced. Good idea for much needed revenue and good for passengers that want Exits and are willing to pay.


Image
 
thaiflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:08 pm

DTWPurserBoy wrote:
TK had developed a reputation for high quality service, a rapidly advancing fleet--things were looking so bright until the present political situation took hold. We were on a cruise a couple of months ago that was supposed to stay for two days in IST but it was changed to a few hours in Kusadasi. I was really bummed. Seriously was looking forward to seeing IST but the cruise lines think safety, just like the airlines do.


In the air they are good as long there are no issues but as soon you're on the ground it's the worst airline ever.
The groundstaff is totally not interested and bluntly rude as experienced today first hand again.
Until they fix the groundstaff issues they will never become a high quality airline.


Also the IST - GYD route is reduced from 4 to 3 daily flights.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:29 pm

thaiflyer wrote:
as experienced today first hand again

Looks like things are getting back to normal :lol:

Today DHMI announced that IST set a new record level for number of flights a day: On 2nd of Sep, Friday, there were 1467 airplane movements, replacing the previous record of 1451 movements.
The future is in the skies.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:37 pm

thaiflyer wrote:
DTWPurserBoy wrote:
TK had developed a reputation for high quality service, a rapidly advancing fleet--things were looking so bright until the present political situation took hold. We were on a cruise a couple of months ago that was supposed to stay for two days in IST but it was changed to a few hours in Kusadasi. I was really bummed. Seriously was looking forward to seeing IST but the cruise lines think safety, just like the airlines do.


In the air they are good as long there are no issues but as soon you're on the ground it's the worst airline ever.
The groundstaff is totally not interested and bluntly rude as experienced today first hand again.
Until they fix the groundstaff issues they will never become a high quality airline.


Also the IST - GYD route is reduced from 4 to 3 daily flights.


But they are a high quality airline despite that, are you saying if SQ screw up on the ground they are not high quality?
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:22 pm

alaturka wrote:
Planning to finish in two phase. First one planning to finish same date when the airport openinig. Will be an extention to current Gayrettepe Metro Station and will be 6 stops between Gayrettepe to 3rd Airport. Second phase will be finished till 2021 where between 3rd Airport to Halkali as another 7 stops.

http://www.haberturk.com/ekonomi/emlak/haber/1242447-3-havalimani-metro-hatti-detaylari-belli-oldu


Well, in all fairness above comments are pretty much optimistic and certainly the media information are not always reflecting the truth (technically and calender-wise).

I do not want to throw in too premature prophecies at this stage. But these are the basic facts:

1) Yes there will be 2 phases of railway construction: 1st Phase will start at Gayrettepe and end up at the New Airport (where two stations are being planned inside the "airport territory, since we are speaking about a piece of land 76.5 km2). However, the 1st Station at Gayrettepe will not be a simple extension of the current M2 Metroline Gayrettepe Station. This Station for the "Airport Metro Line 1" will be around 500-600meters (if not more) away from the M2 station and has to be built much deeper (its decided location is somehow 100 meters deeper than the current M2 station's surface level; inside a small valley...). The Project seems to be almost ready but they haven't called in for the Construction Tender yet, which cannot be faciliated sooner than beg. October 2016. Under such circumstances, this line cannot possibly be ready by the end of Feb 2018 (the earliest possible opening date of Phase 1 for the New Airport) or even by end-Oct 2018 (the deadline for opening New Airport's Phase 1), we are talking about a 33 km long line!... My gutfeel tells me: earliest by end 2019.

The 2nd Phase will be between the New Airport and Halkali Station (let's temporarily label it as "Airport Line 2"), where it will eventually get integrated with the Marmaray Urban Line (if and when the latter can be completed, by 2019-2020) and when achieved it will be possible to carry passengers up to Gebze Station on the Asian side of Istanbul (though this will be a very long commuting distance). This route (New Airport to Halkali) is also expected to be around 33-34 km. But the Project is not technically finalised as of now, so the Construction Tender Invitation may be done earliest by mid-2107. So it will be reasonable to assume this "Airport Line 2" can be operative at least a year (if not longer, due to reasons shown below) after Line 1.

2) These 2 projected New Airport Metro Lines are somehow presented as if they are totally separate ones, which is not very logical. When both become operational they should be integrated into a long U shaped route. So a train starting from Gayrettepe will reach the New Airport and will the continue and end up in Halkali. And vice versa...

3) From the current standing it looks like they want to serve not only the New Airport passengers, users and employees but also establish railway/metro commuting between Gayrettepe and several residential areas (such as Kagithane, Kemerburgaz and to a greater extent, Göktürk) before reaching the New Airport. The case is even more active for Line 2 as this one's route covers almost wholly residential areas before reaching Halkali.

4) So far, they have only pronounced terminology as "Metro line(s)". Well Metroline is mostly known for "underground railway commuter system" but there are many examples of "surface metrolines" all over the world. In my estimations and guessing the first to be constructed "Airport (Metroline) 1" will mostly be a "surface metro line" probably 20 to 25 km. out of estimated 33 km., will be built on the surface. Well there are reasons for this: a) The landside is technically compatible for a surface railway system which will cost much less than tunnel boring (in fact, a double but separate tunnel boring), and also can be done in a shorter period of time. b) However economics and time savings are not the major and only factors: The actual land (in that 20-25 km. peripheral) is pretty "soft" so it is actually rather risky for tunnel boring!!! If you insist for tunnel boring, you have to down to -200 meters or so, which will be very very expensive and very much time taking. So trains will mostly travel on the surface, going underground nearby the stations...

For the second phase (Airport Line 2") it looks like the entire system has to be built underground; so inevitably it will cost more and will take longer time to be built.

5) Last but not the least: There is also a project for a HSR System arriving to the New Airport, coming from the direction of the recently opened 3rd Istanbul Bridge.And this HSR will continue towards Europe (Bulgaria or Greece) after departing from the New Airport. This looks pretty much a futuuuure project so let's not start talking about it. All I can foresee is this HSR line will get integrated with Airport (Metro) Line 1 in one of the stations so from there onwards there should be parallel running of metroline tracks and HSR line tracks, until reaching the New Airport.

Hopefully above throw some more light!...
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:17 pm

OA260 wrote:
I was wondering when this revenue maker would be introduced. Good idea for much needed revenue and good for passengers that want Exits and are willing to pay.


Image


Does anybody know why some medium haul routes (Mumbai, Colombo, Maldives, some middle Africa destinations) and more Long haul routes (Osaka, Jakarta, Bogota/Panama, Sao Paulo/Buenos Aires, all South African routes) other than the ones indicated have been excluded from this opportunity? (All these routes are served by a332, a333 or B77W)
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
northstar80
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:45 pm

mafaky wrote:
OA260 wrote:
I was wondering when this revenue maker would be introduced. Good idea for much needed revenue and good for passengers that want Exits and are willing to pay.


Image


Does anybody know why some medium haul routes (Mumbai, Colombo, Maldives, some middle Africa destinations) and more Long haul routes (Osaka, Jakarta, Bogota/Panama, Sao Paulo/Buenos Aires, all South African routes) other than the ones indicated have been excluded from this opportunity? (All these routes are served by a332, a333 or B77W)



Agreed, why not make this system wide. What is the reason? Creating again another inconsistency in the network..
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:49 am

Agreed, and why only DELHI for medium-haul.
And how one could buy one of these, during booking/during checkin/ or at the counter?
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:19 pm

TK787 wrote:
Agreed, and why only DELHI for medium-haul.
And how one could buy one of these, during booking/during checkin/ or at the counter?

Well, I just did a Long Haul online check-in and no option to buy those exit seats :)
 
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Yakamoz
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:28 pm

According to ucuyoruzzcom Twitter account, THY man Ilker Ayci said they think to fly to Chennai, Bangalore and Hyderabad in India.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:45 pm

Yakamoz wrote:
Ilker Ayci said they think to fly to Chennai, Bangalore and Hyderabad in India.

This has been a very old wish list for TK, but Indian-Turkey bilateral does not permit it. There has been some recent discussions between governments, G20 being the latest one in China. Is there any change in the situation? If not, this is just another worthless announcement.

We have results for Jan-Aug 2016 traffic.

********* TURKISH AIRPORTS TRAFFIC RESULTS JAN-AUG 2016 **********
-- Airport -- -- Domestic % -- -- International % -- -- Total % --
    IST              -1.1              -1.4             -1.3
    SAW             +11.0               0.0             +7.0
    ESB              +7.0              -8.0             +5.0
    ADB              +4.0             -22.0             -2.0
    AYT              +1.0             -48.0            -36.0
  TURKEY             +6.2             -16.7             -4.6


So cumulative damage is increasing. Hopefully holiday season ahead of Turkey will change the demand towards up hill. I suppose TK and PGS still have an increase in passenger numbers.
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:35 am

TK787 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Agreed, and why only DELHI for medium-haul.
And how one could buy one of these, during booking/during checkin/ or at the counter?

Well, I just did a Long Haul online check-in and no option to buy those exit seats :)

Well, during checkin it wasn't offered either :(
Just overheard at IST, a US government employee connecting at IST is not allowed to leave the airport and this poor guy is begging for an airport hotel room which seems to be very limited. TK has 8 rooms within the CIP lounge, not sure how long can one stay in one of those. Just overheard, he was given 8 hours total.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:09 am

I happen to see this photo on internet and thought that you may also like it:

Night view of 3 Bosporus Bridges on a TK 333.

Image
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:49 pm

On board TK1, IST-JFK, all good so far. 45J/281Y on board this 77W (close to a full flight). Only 11+1 crew in the cabin, they are trying hard.
 
thaiflyer
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:52 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
thaiflyer wrote:
DTWPurserBoy wrote:
TK had developed a reputation for high quality service, a rapidly advancing fleet--things were looking so bright until the present political situation took hold. We were on a cruise a couple of months ago that was supposed to stay for two days in IST but it was changed to a few hours in Kusadasi. I was really bummed. Seriously was looking forward to seeing IST but the cruise lines think safety, just like the airlines do.


In the air they are good as long there are no issues but as soon you're on the ground it's the worst airline ever.
The groundstaff is totally not interested and bluntly rude as experienced today first hand again.
Until they fix the groundstaff issues they will never become a high quality airline.


Also the IST - GYD route is reduced from 4 to 3 daily flights.


But they are a high quality airline despite that, are you saying if SQ screw up on the ground they are not high quality?


Running a airline does not only mean doing good in the air but also the groundstaff (contracted or direct) has to be good and know how the handle things when there is a problem or operations disruption.
A airlines without the good total package is only doing a half job and does not deserve the qualification of a quality airline.
As said TK is good when everything is going according plan but as soon something goes wrong or even you need a BP from the transfer desk it is a very bad run airline with incompetent and disinterested staff.
SQ can have problems on a very rare occasion but TK is consistent with bad service outside the airplane.
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:24 am

thaiflyer wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
thaiflyer wrote:

In the air they are good as long there are no issues but as soon you're on the ground it's the worst airline ever.
The groundstaff is totally not interested and bluntly rude as experienced today first hand again.
Until they fix the groundstaff issues they will never become a high quality airline.


Also the IST - GYD route is reduced from 4 to 3 daily flights.


But they are a high quality airline despite that, are you saying if SQ screw up on the ground they are not high quality?


Running a airline does not only mean doing good in the air but also the groundstaff (contracted or direct) has to be good and know how the handle things when there is a problem or operations disruption.
A airlines without the good total package is only doing a half job and does not deserve the qualification of a quality airline.
As said TK is good when everything is going according plan but as soon something goes wrong or even you need a BP from the transfer desk it is a very bad run airline with incompetent and disinterested staff.
SQ can have problems on a very rare occasion but TK is consistent with bad service outside the airplane.



The ground staff are the weak link in the product for sure. I have been at IST during bad weather where flights were delayed 10-12 hours and it was chaos. TK need a proper crisis management team and also a major overhaul of their whole ground product. The staff seem to be lacking in attitude and training. With such a good onboard product its a big negative.
 
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OA260
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:26 am

Turkey will not turn its clocks back from this winter, staying on summer time all year round in a bid to better utilise daylight, according to a decree published in the official gazette today.

The decision will also apply on the Ankara-backed breakaway Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, meaning the divided Mediterranean island will have two different time zones in the winter months.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0908/815258 ... ht-saving/
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:52 am

OA260 wrote:
Turkey will not turn its clocks back from this winter, staying on summer time all year round.

Another step towards ASIA.
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:56 pm

-Few more notes from yesterday's TK1. For the last two JFK flights I am super happy with the cabin temp, it is almost freezing :) Even though most of the service stayed the same, the quality/quantity of Y meals are going down. 11 FA's simply could not keep up with service during the 10 hour full flight. First meal service lasted well into 3.5 hours flight time after departure from start to finish. Many pax started taking their trays back to the galley. Upkeep of the bathrooms suffered also. I doubt the crew got much rest. By the way, I was recently taken upstairs to the TK 77W crew rest area. Even though I was not allowed the take any pictures I was quiet impressed.
The entrance is on the Left side of the back galley across from the lav. You go up few stairs to this long corridor with 4 berths on each side for a total of 8 beds. It felt very spacious.
-IST-JFK to be operated twice daily in W17; 1 x 333, 1 x 77W.
-TK to carry a record number of pax tomorrow due to the holidays and below are TK's latest results:

Traffic results for the period of January-August 2016 are as follows:
• During the period of January-August 2016 passenger carried increased by 3.8%, reaching to 42.3 million passengers from 40.7 million passengers for the same period of 2015. Increases in number of passengers carried in domestic and international lines are 4.8% and 3.0%, respectively.
• International Business Class passengers remained the same for the same period, while international-to-international transfer passengers increased by 17.7%.
• L/F decreased by 4.4 point to 74.4%.
• ASK with 14.1% increase reached to 114.2 billion during the period of January-August 2016 from 100.1 billion for the same period of 2015. Increases in ASK in domestic and international lines are 6.1% and 15.3%, respectively.
• RPK with 7.8% increase reached to 84.9 billion during the period of January-August 2016 from 78.8 billion for the same period of 2015. Increases in RPK in domestic and international lines are 5.0% and 8.2%, respectively.
• Number of landings (passenger aircraft) of 299,281 for the period of January-August 2015 increased by 5.0% to 314,373 in 2016.
• Cargo/Mail carried during the period of January-August 2016 increased by 18.4% to 558,832 tons from 472,178 tons in 2015.
• By the end of August 2016, number of destinations went up to 290 from 277 of August 2015. Number of domestic destinations increased from 48 to 49 and international destinations increased from 229 to 241.
• By the end of August 2016, number of aircraft went up to 335 from 294 of August 2015. Number of wide body aircraft increased from 69 to 86, narrow body aircraft from 215 to 239, while cargo aircraft remained the same, as 10.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:20 am

Greetings from AYT and I wish a happy Bayram to all.

It is a fully sold out holiday time at Kemer next to Bey Mountains. Obviously this the heaven on earth and best time of the season, where else to go. The resort which I stay is full of Russians, as if they have never dissappeared.

I have some latest updates from IST the 3rd:

- Gradully consessioners are feeling financial problems. In combination with the technical problems and drop in air traffic to Turkey, they are now talking about completion of the first phase of 3rd Airport to be Q2-2019. But this phase will also include the third runway which is on the east of terminal.
- It is said that this timing will also have maximum impact on presidential elections due August 2019. So decision is also political.
- And yes, it is rumored that name of the airport will be RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN unless there is a last minute change.
The future is in the skies.
 
kenfiu
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:32 am

I agree that the political situation on Turkey and the region must have had influence in many passengers decision to choose other carriers then Turkish Airlines.

Just wanted to add some other facts that might contribute to the overall picture for Turkish Airlines
As a long time, very loyal Turkish Airlines Miles and Smiles Gold card and lately Elite Plus frequent flyer member, things have changed, and not in a good way for the passenger I think.

Recently, after the overhaul of the Frequent Flyer program, you now earn less points by flying Turkish Airlines than before, if you compare ticket class (especially in Economy).
In addition the required number of points/miles for business upgrades have been increased.

Add to this the elimination of Comfort Class from the 777 fleet, and my choice becomes evident, now I simply choose lowest price instead of sticking to TK like before. However I really do miss the in-flight service with TK, their comfort class as-well as the Lounge at IST., it was great as long as it lasted, but everything comes at a price, of course.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:46 pm

Another ex-Skymark A333 for TK has arrived at ZRH for cabin refurbishment and paint.

Airbus A330 -343 1635 TC- Turkish Airlines ferried 13sep16 LDE-ZRH, EI-reg prior delivery ex EI-FMH
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:15 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
One of TK's next 7 A330 leases has been ferried to ZRH. Not sure where it will be painted.

Airbus A330 -343 1592 EI-FLT Intrepid Avn Partners ferried 03-04sep15 MZJ-BGR-ZRH, all wh, blue tail, for Turkish Airlines ex JA330G


Image
EI-FLT ZRH 04.09.16 by Michael Steffen, on Flickr


Plane is painted and registered TC-LOE.

Airbus A330 -343 1592 TC-LOE Turkish Airlines in full cs at ZRH 14sep16 prior delivery ex EI-FLT
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:52 pm

EVA will not return to IST, so another Chiese carrier gone. Repubic of China is official name of Taiwan.
 
NichCage
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:40 pm

It's not shocking to see EVA Air abandon flights to Istanbul. When they first started service, I believe Turkish Airlines had to cut down on a few flights per week to get EVA Air in the market. It would have been viable if Turkey wasn't hit with all this trouble, but Turkish Airlines will perform much better at Taipei than EVA Air would at Istanbul.
 
TK773ER
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Re: Turkish Aviation September 2016

Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:37 am

Thanks again TK787 for keeping these threads going month to month also a big thank you to TK105 for the details and photos of the new IST airport.
My question it seems ( as mentioned by KarelXWB above ) that these Skymark A333 are on the move quicker than expected ? I thought they are all due 2017 one has already been painted in full TK colours http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4 With the current situation in Turkey and TK reducing daily ops where and how will these seven A333 fit with TK ?

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