Came across media release that Air Canada will offering daily non-stop service to Dallas - DFW, kinda thought that was odd, given AA Hub and One World Alliance, do you seem some partnering with AA

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1051

No partnering with AA since AC and UA have a JV. The local market, plus the Asian connections that this flight is timed for will very easily fill it up without any need for AA.

That's an awfully long flight in a CRJ. Hopefully, AC will see fit put a C Series
on a route like this once they join the fleet

For the love of everything holy why does AC continue to put their CR9s (I know they are 705s) on these long trans-continental routes, and put the E175 on even shorter routes?

INFINITI329 wrote:

For the love of everything holy why does AC continue to put their CR9s (I know they are 705s) on these long trans-continental routes, and put the E175 on even shorter routes?

The fact that AC no longer flies E175s probably explains it.

Regardless, while the E-Jet is certainly a more comfortable ride, I find AC's CRJ-705s perfectly fine for a 4 hour flight.

Edit: E175 flying shifted to Sky Regional, not removed from fleet, my bad! I also understand that the E175s were used sparingly in western Canada due to performance over the rockies? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can clarify this.

DolphinAir747 wrote:

No partnering with AA since AC and UA have a JV. The local market, plus the Asian connections that this flight is timed for will very easily fill it up without any need for AA.

Doesn't UA already fly YVR-IAH and YVR-DEN?

With all the connecting flights out of DEN and IAH to DFW not sure how this will fly....YVR-DFW competing against much larger YYC-DFW market.

Also AC will have to compete against AA's current YVR-DFW flights using 738s.

YAAAAAAAAASSSSSSS I love hearing this.

This has been a route that AC previously flew in the early 2000's after they inherited it from the CP acquisition, flown on 737-200s. It's timed pretty well for cruise traffic as well as TPAC and Western Canadian flights out of YVR. I think that now that AC is profitable, we'll see them add a decent number of trunk routes from their secondary hubs like YVR. I also see BOS-YVR as a logical add at some point.

Looking through some performance data, it's actually a decently large local market (44 PDEW) with a higher local fare than DFW-YYZ ($325 vs. $308) and a decent amount of 1-stop connections via LAX, DEN, SFO, PHX, YYC and SEA.

Connection-wise, there are some really decent opportunities to ASIA on AC and Star, including:

AC to ICN
CA to PEK
AC to PVG
AC to PEK
AC to KIX
AC to HKG
AC to NRT
NH to HND
NZ to AKL

IrishAyes wrote:

YAAAAAAAAASSSSSSS I love hearing this.

This has been a route that AC previously flew in the early 2000's after they inherited it from the CP acquisition, flown on 737-200s. It's timed pretty well for cruise traffic as well as TPAC and Western Canadian flights out of YVR. I think that now that AC is profitable, we'll see them add a decent number of trunk routes from their secondary hubs like YVR. I also see BOS-YVR as a logical add at some point.

Looking through some performance data, it's actually a decently large local market (44 PDEW) with a higher local fare than DFW-YYZ ($325 vs. $308) and a decent amount of 1-stop connections via LAX, DEN, SFO, PHX, YYC and SEA.

Connection-wise, there are some really decent opportunities to ASIA on AC and Star, including:

AC to ICN
CA to PEK
AC to PVG
AC to PEK
AC to KIX
AC to HKG
AC to NRT
NH to HND
NZ to AKL

Where/how do you see data related to traffic?

bmacleod wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

No partnering with AA since AC and UA have a JV. The local market, plus the Asian connections that this flight is timed for will very easily fill it up without any need for AA.

Doesn't UA already fly YVR-IAH and YVR-DEN?

With all the connecting flights out of DEN and IAH to DFW not sure how this will fly....YVR-DFW competing against much larger YYC-DFW market.

Also AC will have to compete against AA's current YVR-DFW flights using 738s.

Just curious how you figure the YYC to DFW market is much bigger than the YVR to DFW market? From YYC, American Eagle runs the Embraer and WS runs a seasonal 737, while AA has double daily 737s from YVR.

IrishAyes wrote:

Connection-wise, there are some really decent opportunities to ASIA on AC and Star, including:

AC to ICN
CA to PEK
AC to PVG
AC to PEK
AC to KIX
AC to HKG
AC to NRT
NH to HND
NZ to AKL

NZ to ALK isn't timed well for the connection. DFW-YVR-AKL will be an ~10 hour layover while AKL-YVR-DFW will be almost 23 hours. HND-YVR on NH and HKG-YVR on AC also don't connect well to YVR-DFW since they both arrive after the flight to DFW unfortunately.

Typical AC super arrogant attitude. They think they can take over AAs hub with a miserable CRJ. Smells like UA is behind this though.

I doubt they think they are "taking over" a hub by adding one daily flight to a second destination from DFW.

VCEflyboy wrote:

Typical AC super arrogant attitude. They think they can take over AAs hub with a miserable CRJ. Smells like UA is behind this though.

Typical AC super arrogant attitude, adding flights to cities where they don't have a hub. Maybe they should just keep to flying solely between YVR, YYC, YYZ, and YUL.

AC has so much excess capacity, now they are going into other airline's fortress hubs.

When did AC last retire any air frames?

Instead, they convince themselves it's all "low cost" iron and fly it any where they can think of, regardless of the consequences.

All the new routes to Europe with 767's that should have been retired have completely destroyed Frankfurt and Munich's profitability, not to mention seriously strained AC's relationship with LH.

Flights from YYZ to FRA tomorrow are priced at c$734 / US$569 one way and flights to FRA in a few days are as low as c$434 / US$336. Those flights were all $1,800 or more one way this time last year.

The discounting is available from YYC, YUL and virtually all other Cdn airports to both FRA and MUC. Poor old LH is still trying to get $1,852 tomorrow on their YVR-FRA flight. Why would anyone book that when they can simply buy a YVR-YYC ticket for $279 and then a YYC-FRA ticket for $736 and pocket the $800 savings, which is exactly what is happening.

AC continues to fill their plans with junk yield, all the time patting themselves on the back for all the "success", whilst LH, their Star partner, sucks wind on their non-stop Canada to Germany iron.

Check out tomorrow's best pricing from NYC airports to FRA tomorrow. $3,000 one more or more! Is it any wonder US carriers are reporting margins around 20% and AC made barely 5%, with the cheapest fuel in 20 years?

It's going to very interesting to watch AA's response to AC's foray into DFW to feed their Asia flights.

AC has neither the size or the balance sheet to pick fights with US mega airlines, especially by flying into their hornet nest hubs to raid feed traffic.

jimbo737 wrote:

AC has so much excess capacity, now they are going into other airline's fortress hubs.

When did AC last retire any air frames?

Instead, they convince themselves it's all "low cost" iron and fly it any where they can think of, regardless of the consequences.

All the new routes to Europe with 767's that should have been retired have completely destroyed Frankfurt and Munich's profitability, not to mention seriously strained AC's relationship with LH.

Flights from YYZ to FRA tomorrow are priced at c$734 / US$569 one way and flights to FRA in a few days are as low as c$434 / US$336. Those flights were all $1,800 or more one way this time last year.

The discounting is available from YYC, YUL and virtually all other Cdn airports to both FRA and MUC. Poor old LH is still trying to get $1,852 tomorrow on their YVR-FRA flight. Why would anyone book that when they can simply buy a YVR-YYC ticket for $279 and then a YYC-FRA ticket for $736 and pocket the $800 savings, which is exactly what is happening.

AC continues to fill their plans with junk yield, all the time patting themselves on the back for all the "success", whilst LH, their Star partner, sucks wind on their non-stop Canada to Germany iron.

Check out tomorrow's best pricing from NYC airports to FRA tomorrow. $3,000 one more or more! Is it any wonder US carriers are reporting margins around 20% and AC made barely 5%, with the cheapest fuel in 20 years?

It's going to very interesting to watch AA's response to AC's foray into DFW to feed their Asia flights.

AC has neither the size or the balance sheet to pick fights with US mega airlines, especially by flying into their hornet nest hubs to raid feed traffic.

AC made the decision a few years ago to focus on the ultimate low yield passengers. I have no idea where management thinks its taking the airline but the current direction doesn't look too good. They've picked the same battle with CX on their YVR & YYZ-HKG routes with the HD77Ws going after the low yield Y passengers. I don't think its a sustainable strategy though. As for the CRJ on that long of a segment, It'll be ok until they retrofit the new config and the pitch is reduced to 31'. Then it'll be a fun flight.

Well long story short, the E-175 does not have the range that the CRJ705 has. That's why YYC-IAH is on the 705 and apparently the new DFW route. At the moment leg room is very good on the 705. Better than on the Airbus for sure. Worked on that airplane since they were brought into the fleet. People always bitch about it until they sit down. They are reconfig the J cabin soon(adding 2 more seats for a ttl of 12) and putting an oven onboard. Apparently a bigger closet too, that will be at the expense of some leg room in Y, but at the end of the day, then it'll be consistent with the leg room on the other aircraft in the fleet. There is nothing wrong with that airplane at all AND it makes money. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Quite a few posters in this post and others are critiquing Air Canada's decision to densify the seating of the fleet and pursue lower yielding traffic. (As compared to other legacy carriers such as Lufthansa and Cathay Pacific.) Ultimately however the only thing that truly matters is, is it working for them? Based on their last two years worth of financial results the answer seems to be it indeed is. Their recent financial results seem to indicate what they are doing is working for them.

jimbo737 wrote:

Flights from YYZ to FRA tomorrow are priced at c$734 / US$569 one way and flights to FRA in a few days are as low as c$434 / US$336. Those flights were all $1,800 or more one way this time last year.

Your $1,800 one way Y class YYZ-FRA fare this time last year sounds extremely high. That's even higher than peak season round trip Y fares.

Sooner787 wrote:

That's an awfully long flight in a CRJ. Hopefully, AC will see fit put a C Series
on a route like this once they join the fleet

It's only 6 NM further (1524 nm) than IAH-YYC (1518 nm) where AC has been using the Jazz CRJ 900 (705) for years without problems. Those aircraft also have 34 inch seat pitch in Y class, better than all other AC mainline and regional aircraft types, and the same seatback IFE system as the mainline fleet. They also have a 10-seat J cabin with 2-1 seating. They're much nicer than the Jazz and Air Georgian CRJ-100s/200s.

saloman wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

For the love of everything holy why does AC continue to put their CR9s (I know they are 705s) on these long trans-continental routes, and put the E175 on even shorter routes?

The fact that AC no longer flies E175s probably explains it.

Regardless, while the E-Jet is certainly a more comfortable ride, I find AC's CRJ-705s perfectly fine for a 4 hour flight.

Edit: E175 flying shifted to Sky Regional, not removed from fleet, my bad! I also understand that the E175s were used sparingly in western Canada due to performance over the rockies? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can clarify this.

That is correct. The furthest west the E75s fly is to Saskatchewan on the daily YOW-YQR-YXE-YOW summer-seasonal triangle route. Other than that, I believe the further west they go at the moment is ORD. Even YWG don't have them on the schedule at all.

Dominion301 wrote:

The furthest west the E75s fly is to Saskatchewan on the daily YOW-YQR-YXE-YOW summer-seasonal triangle route. Other than that, I believe the further west they go at the moment is ORD. Even YWG don't have them on the schedule at all.

Not correct. The Sky Regional E75s also operate YUL-DEN-YUL daily which is about 200 nm further than YOW-YQR. DEN's 5,431 foot elevation must also be the highest in the entire AC network other than Bogota and Mexico City.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKV7 ... /CYUL/KDEN

jimbo737 wrote:

AC continues to fill their plans with junk yield, all the time patting themselves on the back for all the "success", whilst LH, their Star partner, sucks wind on their non-stop Canada to Germany iron.

Very puzzled by term "Junk Yield" and "sucking wind". Could someone explain these terms?

bmacleod wrote:

Very puzzled by term "Junk Yield" and "sucking wind". Could someone explain these terms?

It's what the Westjetters are told by their head office, in the hope that it is spread on social media. Of course, it is not at all related to fact.

Some interesting data from Air Canada ...

Air Canada mainline yields are higher than last year. Air Canada Rouge yields (which are by design, lower) continue to show a strong margin as not only are Rouge's seat mile costs less than mainline (by about 25-30%), but they are also lower than Westjet!! Air Canada in total, Rouge included, garners a yield that Westjet can only dream of.

But ... back to the topic at hand ...

YVR-DFW is exactly like YYZ-SLC. Everyone here laughed when AC started a route right into Delta's hub. And Delta, as one would hope, responded with an A319 and low fares. But ... AC is carrying very few passengers between YYZ and SLC and the route is achieving load factors greater than 90%. With over 80% of the passengers connecting through YYZ and more than half of those connecting internationally ... Europe and South America.

The YYZ hub and YVR hub products are hard to compete against. With the help of Customs and the respective airport authorities, the connection times can be planned at one hour as baggage is not carried. (Try that through LAX, SFO, SEA or JFK). It is the same with YUL, but very little traffic connects through YUL.

At a recent talk at the Empire Club, Ben Smith of Air Canada advised that intercontinental traffic through Canada, which only started in earnest this year exceeded expectations ten-fold. While Economy passengers continue the go for the lowest fare, (which in US dollars tended to be higher yield) there has been a market trend showing that Business Class and Premium Economy Passengers are showing a preference to AC, on routes where a connection is required. In other words, if a non-stop exists, it has the edge, but .... a connection through YVR, YYZ and YUL is preferred over LAX, SFO, ORD, JFK, MIA, etc.

Thus, the YVR-DFW route.

The CRJ705 is a very comfortable ride. And as noted above, AC (as Skyregional) does not fly the E175 over the Rockies, as Engineering has discovered some scenarios where it can not maintain obstacle margins on one engine.

longhauler wrote:

bmacleod wrote:

Very puzzled by term "Junk Yield" and "sucking wind". Could someone explain these terms?

. The CRJ705 is a very comfortable ride. And as noted above, AC (as Skyregional) does not fly the E175 over the Rockies, as Engineering has discovered some scenarios where it can not maintain obstacle margins on one engine.

Do other E175 operators avoid the rockies as well?

VCEflyboy wrote:

Typical AC super arrogant attitude. They think they can take over AAs hub with a miserable CRJ. Smells like UA is behind this though.

Yeah, how DARE an airline start service in a competitors back yard. What a ridiculous comment.

INFINITI329 wrote:

Do other E175 operators avoid the rockies as well?

There's currently a E175 flight (UA5925 opb Skywest) from MSP to SFO flying over the Rockies.

jimbo737 wrote:

It's going to very interesting to watch AA's response to AC's foray into DFW to feed their Asia flights.

AC has neither the size or the balance sheet to pick fights with US mega airlines, especially by flying into their hornet nest hubs to raid feed traffic.

Asia-bound, DFW-origin pax should be happy to have the price competition. Airline owners and employees can complain about low yields; for passengers they are signs of open access and successful competition. I don't expect AA to try to route many flyers YVR-LAX-Asia to try to ruin AC's YVR yields.

INFINITI329 wrote:

longhauler wrote:

. The CRJ705 is a very comfortable ride. And as noted above, AC (as Skyregional) does not fly the E175 over the Rockies, as Engineering has discovered some scenarios where it can not maintain obstacle margins on one engine.

Do other E175 operators avoid the rockies as well?

No other Canadian carrier flies the E175, and it was with Transport Canada restrictions that brought about the possibility of obstacle cleaarance issues.

I wont speculate on whether it is overkill, but ... Transport Canada requires obstacle clearance of up to 6000' in some conditions. When flying the E175, Air Canada Engineering showed that on all airways over the Rockies, these restrictions would be met. However, if a direct routing were given by ATC, or when deviating around weather, this 6000' restriction could be encroached upon. (If you happened to be at MTOW, with Engine and Wing anti-ice ON, and lose an engine at the precise moment a pressurization problem occured that precluded a slower drift down).

It was decided that it would be easier just to restrict the areas in which the aircraft flew. SkyRegional when flying their 20 E175s for Air Canada also restricts the regions. I am assuming, as many American carriers fly the E175 over the Rockies, that the FAA does not share Transport Canada's pessimism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66GJ379 ... verflavour heres a vid of f/c on CRJ-705. Its nice.

Geez. The trolls are out on this thread. Who would've thought that an airline adding a single daily flight from a hub to a spoke which happens to be one of the ten largest metropolitan areas in the U.S. would inspire such intense emotions?

This is just Air Canada connecting the dots and looking to compete.

For those of y'all familiar with their CRJ705 operations out of Houston, I'm curious to know if there are any checked luggage restrictions during the winter holiday season for ski/snowboard equipment.

The DFW-YVR market is larger than the DFW-YYC market. AA has consistently flown twice daily to YVR with some combination of 738s and 752s, whereas YYC was flown with an MD80 before switching over to the A319, and now to the ERJ170.

jimbo737 wrote:

AC has so much excess capacity, now they are going into other airline's fortress hubs.

When did AC last retire any air frames?

Instead, they convince themselves it's all "low cost" iron and fly it any where they can think of, regardless of the consequences.

All the new routes to Europe with 767's that should have been retired have completely destroyed Frankfurt and Munich's profitability, not to mention seriously strained AC's relationship with LH.

Flights from YYZ to FRA tomorrow are priced at c$734 / US$569 one way and flights to FRA in a few days are as low as c$434 / US$336. Those flights were all $1,800 or more one way this time last year.

The discounting is available from YYC, YUL and virtually all other Cdn airports to both FRA and MUC. Poor old LH is still trying to get $1,852 tomorrow on their YVR-FRA flight. Why would anyone book that when they can simply buy a YVR-YYC ticket for $279 and then a YYC-FRA ticket for $736 and pocket the $800 savings, which is exactly what is happening.

AC continues to fill their plans with junk yield, all the time patting themselves on the back for all the "success", whilst LH, their Star partner, sucks wind on their non-stop Canada to Germany iron.

Check out tomorrow's best pricing from NYC airports to FRA tomorrow. $3,000 one more or more! Is it any wonder US carriers are reporting margins around 20% and AC made barely 5%, with the cheapest fuel in 20 years?

It's going to very interesting to watch AA's response to AC's foray into DFW to feed their Asia flights.

AC has neither the size or the balance sheet to pick fights with US mega airlines, especially by flying into their hornet nest hubs to raid feed traffic.

I'm hardly considered an AC fan, but if what you're saying is true, AC is beginning to behave like a disrupt or rather than a status quo-ist. From my perspective, this is a welcome development given all the consolidation and JVs we've seen.

AA and LH are big boys. If they have a problem with AC, they should step up their game. Or, as you say, suck wind. From a consumer perspective, AC's disruptive behaviour appears to be a good thing.

[quote="us330"]
For those of y'all familiar with their CRJ705 operations out of Houston, I'm curious to know if there are any checked luggage restrictions during the winter holiday season for ski/snowboard equipment.

I can't recall there being any restrictions in the past,not sure if there will be going forward . Mind you, I rarely if ever saw ski equipment being loaded onto the aircraft out of IAH. Once AC started charging for checked bags, it's rare when we bulked out.

Viscount724 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

The furthest west the E75s fly is to Saskatchewan on the daily YOW-YQR-YXE-YOW summer-seasonal triangle route. Other than that, I believe the further west they go at the moment is ORD. Even YWG don't have them on the schedule at all.

Not correct. The Sky Regional E75s also operate YUL-DEN-YUL daily which is about 200 nm further than YOW-YQR. DEN's 5,431 foot elevation must also be the highest in the entire AC network other than Bogota and Mexico City.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKV7 ... /CYUL/KDEN

I stand corrected as I thought YUL-DEN was still an E90 route.

jimbo737 wrote:

When did AC last retire any air frames?

C-FHON (E90) in April of this year. The last of the 20 E90s retired and taken by BCC as part of the 737 deal. I believe all but 5 mainline 767s are set to go starting summer 2017, mainline 319s, 320s, and 321s will start going when the 737s start coming (still makes me mad!!), and the remaining 25 E90s will go when the CS300s come. Otherwise what else is there to retire?

Hmmm.... I'm am AA loyalist, but I'd rather take AC on a CRJ705 with IFE and power than an AA 737-800 with power and no IFE to distract from the cramped Y cabin....