NichCage
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The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Qatar Airways flies to Miami, but what market do they serve? I know it comes to the benefit of Qatar Airways that Miami is a very big oneworld hub for American Airlines, but what market do they serve in and out of Miami? Very few passengers from Miami would go to Qatar to just visit Doha, as well as passengers from Doha going to just visit Miami.

As well, I also wonder if Emirates and Ethiad Airways will ever fly to Miami. Would there ever be a market for those two airlines in Miami?
 
jfk777
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:29 pm

What ME3 flights to Miami, for such a large international hub, the hub for Latin America there is only one Qatar 777 daily. Where is Emirates ? Doing Mickey Mouse in Orlando not the serious Business in Miami. One reason Emirates has a Miami allergy is the lack of Jet Blue at MIA. EK flies to 3 west coast cities plus 2 cities in Texas, the point where Miami is on their list has to be here, no more excuses.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:50 pm

?? what excuses? what are you talking about? If Emirates thought there was a good market in Miami, they'd be in Miami. Period. What makes a good Emirates market? In the US, there has to be a good amount of demand to/ from India and Southeast Asia, India primarily. The VAST MAJORITY of passengers on any USA -AUH/DOH/DXB flight are simply passing through those hubs on their way to India and Pakistan, with SOME traffic to southeast Asia. If the city in question in the USA doesn't generate a lot of traffic to/ from those destinations, they're not going to get much ME3 action. Next, they need a partner, which is used to top off a flight. EK doesn't have that in Miami. Maybe you don't think Orlando is "serious Business" (whatever that means) but I have friends who work in the profitability analysis group at EK who say that MCO is doing EXTREMELY well for them. Sorry that doesn't work with your narrative.
Look, these airlines have very smart people who work for them who decide where they will fly. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping any of them from flying to Miami. Perhaps the fact that EK and EY doesn't says something about the limits of the MIA market. Just a thought.


jfk777 wrote:
What ME3 flights to Miami, for such a large international hub, the hub for Latin America there is only one Qatar 777 daily. Where is Emirates ? Doing Mickey Mouse in Orlando not the serious Business in Miami. One reason Emirates has a Miami allergy is the lack of Jet Blue at MIA. EK flies to 3 west coast cities plus 2 cities in Texas, the point where Miami is on their list has to be here, no more excuses.
 
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Miami
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:57 pm

NichCage wrote:
but what market do they serve in and out of Miami? Very few passengers from Miami would go to Qatar to just visit Doha, as well as passengers from Doha going to just visit Miami.

To Miami, passenger connect anywhere in Florida, to the Caribbean, Central America, and Northern parts of South America. To DOH, it's mainly to India, Philippines, Thailand and other parts of Asia.

NichCage wrote:
I also wonder if Emirates and Ethiad Airways will ever fly to Miami. Would there ever be a market for those two airlines in Miami?

I lost hope on Emirates. They simply want to fly to FLL because of B6 but can't make it happen.

Etihad is a possibility because of their partnership with AA.

Mark my words, Etihad will be in Miami before Emirates enters the South Florida market. Besides, Etihad isn't even in Florida. One would think they would be in Florida by now.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:01 pm

There is a good-sized local market between Miami and the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent, which is something that bothers a lot of people, but is nonetheless factual. That's the market it serves. Another airline will join Qatar and Turkish in due time, whether it be Emirates or Etihad. The market is large, they won't ignore it forever.
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adamh8297
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:06 pm

Miami wrote:
NichCage wrote:
To Miami, passenger connect anywhere in Florida, to the Caribbean, Central America, and Northern parts of South America. To DOH, it's mainly to India, .


I do wonder is there a lot of POS-MIA-DOH-India connecting going on due to demographics of Trinidad and Tobago?
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dfwjim1
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:42 pm

I imagine too that Qatar (with the help of A.A.) attracts passengers from many large cities in the United States that are willing to take a longer routing through MIA in exchange for a lower fare or the use of FF miles/points.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:46 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
There is a good-sized local market between Miami and the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent, which is something that bothers a lot of people, but is nonetheless factual. That's the market it serves. Another airline will join Qatar and Turkish in due time, whether it be Emirates or Etihad. The market is large, they won't ignore it forever.



This again... seems like this discussion comes up here every two days. :x

Why would it "bother" anyone? Do people really take these things so personally? Yes there is a market, but it's smaller than other US markets which don't see all of the ME3 like EWR, SFO, IAH, SEA, etc. Also don't forget that a lot of Euro carriers can connect pax from MIA to India so too many new carriers would really deteriorate yields.
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:57 am

DolphinAir747 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
There is a good-sized local market between Miami and the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent, which is something that bothers a lot of people, but is nonetheless factual. That's the market it serves. Another airline will join Qatar and Turkish in due time, whether it be Emirates or Etihad. The market is large, they won't ignore it forever.



This again... seems like this discussion comes up here every two days. :x

Why would it "bother" anyone? Do people really take these things so personally? Yes there is a market, but it's smaller than other US markets which don't see all of the ME3 like EWR, SFO, IAH, SEA, etc. Also don't forget that a lot of Euro carriers can connect pax from MIA to India so too many new carriers would really deteriorate yields.


I'm not the one bringing it up all the time. A lot of things are brought up often, it is what it is.

For the record, Miami is a larger market to the region than Seattle (not to India by itself, but the region as a whole).

Atlanta is another market, like Miami, that will easily support another ME3 carrier. And Newark is a prime example of why the argument "if there were a market, EK/QR/XYZ would already be there" holds so little water.

And, yes, you bring up a good point that with so much capacity between Miami and Europe - more than BOS, LAX, SFO, etc. - it makes the market more unattractive.
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FlyingSicilian
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:33 am

DolphinAir747 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
There is a good-sized local market between Miami and the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent, which is something that bothers a lot of people, but is nonetheless factual. That's the market it serves. Another airline will join Qatar and Turkish in due time, whether it be Emirates or Etihad. The market is large, they won't ignore it forever.



This again... seems like this discussion comes up here every two days. :x

Why would it "bother" anyone? Do people really take these things so personally? Yes there is a market, but it's smaller than other US markets which don't see all of the ME3 like EWR, SFO, IAH, SEA, etc. Also don't forget that a lot of Euro carriers can connect pax from MIA to India so too many new carriers would really deteriorate yields.


some of those that do not see all the ME3 do get TK, like IAH, which serves a similar function so it is kind of the ME3+TK ;-)

Also as others have noted TK is in several cities w
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jfk777
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:02 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
?? what excuses? what are you talking about? If Emirates thought there was a good market in Miami, they'd be in Miami. Period. What makes a good Emirates market? In the US, there has to be a good amount of demand to/ from India and Southeast Asia, India primarily. The VAST MAJORITY of passengers on any USA -AUH/DOH/DXB flight are simply passing through those hubs on their way to India and Pakistan, with SOME traffic to southeast Asia. If the city in question in the USA doesn't generate a lot of traffic to/ from those destinations, they're not going to get much ME3 action. Next, they need a partner, which is used to top off a flight. EK doesn't have that in Miami. Maybe you don't think Orlando is "serious Business" (whatever that means) but I have friends who work in the profitability analysis group at EK who say that MCO is doing EXTREMELY well for them. Sorry that doesn't work with your narrative.
Look, these airlines have very smart people who work for them who decide where they will fly. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping any of them from flying to Miami. Perhaps the fact that EK and EY doesn't says something about the limits of the MIA market. Just a thought.


jfk777 wrote:
What ME3 flights to Miami, for such a large international hub, the hub for Latin America there is only one Qatar 777 daily. Where is Emirates ? Doing Mickey Mouse in Orlando not the serious Business in Miami. One reason Emirates has a Miami allergy is the lack of Jet Blue at MIA. EK flies to 3 west coast cities plus 2 cities in Texas, the point where Miami is on their list has to be here, no more excuses.


Just because Emirates doesn't have a code share deal with AA doesn't mean it doesn't connect with AA. How the hell do you think DFW works for Emirates ? Because the connect to AA. IF Emirates can make a flight to Panama( which was cancelled) work from Dubai it can make a shorter flight to a bigger market work with a 777.

Miami is the best place to connect to all Latin America for an airline from a very distant land like Emirates. Miami is also the best airport for Emirates to serve the huge South Florida market for travel to their part of the world and to bring people for cruises to the Caribbean. It not just about the passenger going to India and Pakistan. IF a small central European airline like Austrian can make Miami work then a huge airline like Emirates can.
 
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HALtheAI
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:09 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Just because Emirates doesn't have a code share deal with AA doesn't mean it doesn't connect with AA. How the hell do you think DFW works for Emirates ? Because the connect to AA. IF Emirates can make a flight to Panama( which was cancelled) work from Dubai it can make a shorter flight to a bigger market work with a 777.

Are you sure AA even has an interline agreement with EK? American isn't on the list on EK's website.
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:36 pm

jfk777 wrote:

Just because Emirates doesn't have a code share deal with AA doesn't mean it doesn't connect with AA. How the hell do you think DFW works for Emirates ? Because the connect to AA. IF Emirates can make a flight to Panama( which was cancelled) work from Dubai it can make a shorter flight to a bigger market work with a 777.

Miami is the best place to connect to all Latin America for an airline from a very distant land like Emirates. Miami is also the best airport for Emirates to serve the huge South Florida market for travel to their part of the world and to bring people for cruises to the Caribbean. It not just about the passenger going to India and Pakistan. IF a small central European airline like Austrian can make Miami work then a huge airline like Emirates can.


A lot of corrections here.

First off, EK makes DFW work because it's a top 5 metro area and has a lot of Indian Subcontinent people. Not because of AA.

Well, EK can't make PTY work for now, so the point is moot.

OS and EK aren't comparable. As everyone has commented before, MIA-Europe is much larger than MIA-Indian Subcontinent.
 
oakupperman
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:39 pm

jfk777 wrote:
What ME3 flights to Miami, for such a large international hub, the hub for Latin America there is only one Qatar 777 daily. Where is Emirates ? Doing Mickey Mouse in Orlando not the serious Business in Miami. One reason Emirates has a Miami allergy is the lack of Jet Blue at MIA. EK flies to 3 west coast cities plus 2 cities in Texas, the point where Miami is on their list has to be here, no more excuses.



What I hear you saying is EK might be better off at FLL than MIA
 
oakupperman
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:41 pm

Define Middle Eastern Carriers as you will, but I expect to see El Al in Miami far sooner than I would EY or EK
 
NichCage
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:43 am

oakupperman wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
What ME3 flights to Miami, for such a large international hub, the hub for Latin America there is only one Qatar 777 daily. Where is Emirates ? Doing Mickey Mouse in Orlando not the serious Business in Miami. One reason Emirates has a Miami allergy is the lack of Jet Blue at MIA. EK flies to 3 west coast cities plus 2 cities in Texas, the point where Miami is on their list has to be here, no more excuses.



What I hear you saying is EK might be better off at FLL than MIA


To be honest, EK might want to fly to Fort Lauderdale. If EK can find a way to make it profitable, they can do it. However, if EK had the choice it would be MIA instead of FLL. If you don't know, the longest runway at FLL is 9,000 feet. That would not be enough runway for a non-stop flight to Dubai. I also don't think FLL could handle the 77W.
 
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:18 am

jfk777 wrote:
Miami is the best place to connect to all Latin America for an airline from a very distant land like Emirates.

Which is why, nearly 13yrs after announcing their entry into the Americas, they still haven't given the slightest indication of starting there... right?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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DolphinAir747
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:15 am

oakupperman wrote:
Define Middle Eastern Carriers as you will, but I expect to see El Al in Miami far sooner than I would EY or EK


LY has already announced their intention to send the 787 to MIA and ORD. They used to run the route on the 762- MIA is one of the largest US markets from TLV (I believe the largest after NYC and LAX, and larger than SFO which has a nonstop now).
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:14 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Miami is the best place to connect to all Latin America for an airline from a very distant land like Emirates.

Which is why, nearly 13yrs after announcing their entry into the Americas, they still haven't given the slightest indication of starting there... right?


Simply false.

Miami is one of many cities EK has publicly mentioned it would like to fly to over the past few years.
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Fastphilly
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:58 am

MAH4546 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Miami is the best place to connect to all Latin America for an airline from a very distant land like Emirates.

Which is why, nearly 13yrs after announcing their entry into the Americas, they still haven't given the slightest indication of starting there... right?


Simply false.

Miami is one of many cities EK has publicly mentioned it would like to fly to over the past few years.


An airline saying they would "Like" to to a city is nothing out of the ordinary, it's obvious after they crunch the numbers they just don't add up at this point hence the delay in starting the route.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:21 am

MAH4546 wrote:
Simply false.
Miami is one of many cities EK has publicly mentioned it would like to fly to over the past few years.

Nothing false about it.

Airlines claim to "like" or be "interested" in places all the time..... that is in no way, whatsoever, equivalent to an indication of ACTUALLY starting a route.

A route filing, public announcement, etc would falsify that.
Saying that they "would like to" does not. At all.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:51 am

Fastphilly wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Which is why, nearly 13yrs after announcing their entry into the Americas, they still haven't given the slightest indication of starting there... right?


Simply false.

Miami is one of many cities EK has publicly mentioned it would like to fly to over the past few years.


An airline saying they would "Like" to to a city is nothing out of the ordinary, it's obvious after they crunch the numbers they just don't add up at this point hence the delay in starting the route.


I fully realize that. Poster made the false statement that Emirates has never publicly indicated a desire to start service to Miami. It has, amongst other destinations.

People used to claim airlines like SAS, Turkish, Qatar and Aeroflot would "never" fly to MIA. Look where we are now.
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:58 am

MAH4546 wrote:
Poster made the false statement that Emirates has never publicly indicated a desire to start service to Miami.

Wrong. I said they've never given any indication of starting. And that's a fact.

Never once have they scheduled or announced service to Miami.
Can you show bidding/assigning crew to such a route? Establishing facilities?

....if saying that they want to be somewhere is an indication of starting (which it isn't) then we may as well include CI and CX in there as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
slvrblt
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:05 pm

HALtheAI wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Just because Emirates doesn't have a code share deal with AA doesn't mean it doesn't connect with AA. How the hell do you think DFW works for Emirates ? Because the connect to AA. IF Emirates can make a flight to Panama( which was cancelled) work from Dubai it can make a shorter flight to a bigger market work with a 777.

Are you sure AA even has an interline agreement with EK? American isn't on the list on EK's website.


JFK/HAL is correct. AA does not have any interline agreement with EK at all.
..everything works out in the end.
 
klakzky123
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:15 pm

slvrblt wrote:
HALtheAI wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Just because Emirates doesn't have a code share deal with AA doesn't mean it doesn't connect with AA. How the hell do you think DFW works for Emirates ? Because the connect to AA. IF Emirates can make a flight to Panama( which was cancelled) work from Dubai it can make a shorter flight to a bigger market work with a 777.

Are you sure AA even has an interline agreement with EK? American isn't on the list on EK's website.


JFK/HAL is correct. AA does not have any interline agreement with EK at all.


They definitely used to have one. I believe Delta also had an interline agreement with EK. I think both carriers dropped it at some point. There were talks at some point about AA and EK starting some codeshare routes but that was a few years ago. I think JetBlue is the only American carrier that codeshares with EK now (not sure if Alaska still has codeshare routes with EK).

EDIT - I found it. AA dropped its interline agreement with EK in 2014 and DL dropped it in 2015.
 
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Miami
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:48 pm

Well, I can tell you now. It will be a long time before we see the ME3 at MIA. If ever..
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:49 pm

Miami wrote:
Well, I can tell you now. It will be a long time before we see the ME3 at MIA. If ever..


Move off the hyperbole. FLL is one of many cities that has accidentally appeared on the EK route map. Maybe EK will come to FLL, maybe it won't. Nothing is happening in the immediate future.
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:10 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Miami wrote:
Well, I can tell you now. It will be a long time before we see the ME3 at MIA. If ever..


Move off the hyperbole. FLL is one of many cities that has accidentally appeared on the EK route map. Maybe EK will come to FLL, maybe it won't. Nothing is happening in the immediate future.


That's what you think. But I know something you don't.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:12 pm

Miami wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Miami wrote:
Well, I can tell you now. It will be a long time before we see the ME3 at MIA. If ever..


Move off the hyperbole. FLL is one of many cities that has accidentally appeared on the EK route map. Maybe EK will come to FLL, maybe it won't. Nothing is happening in the immediate future.


That's what you think. But I know something you don't.


Then tell us what you know about Emirates and Fort Lauderdale. This is an anonymous message board, there's no risk here.
a.
 
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:16 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Miami wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Move off the hyperbole. FLL is one of many cities that has accidentally appeared on the EK route map. Maybe EK will come to FLL, maybe it won't. Nothing is happening in the immediate future.


That's what you think. But I know something you don't.


Then tell us what you know about Emirates and Fort Lauderdale. This is an anonymous message board, there's no risk here.


The thing is, people know who I am. So there is a risk for me. If I'm told not to saying anything about the airline, airport, start date, aircraft, schedule, then I will not say anything. I can say something is going to happen but that's about it. I can't get into further details.


If it is EK to FLL (I'm not denying or admitting), then good for FLL. You never know what may happen nowadays.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
winginit
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:37 pm

Miami wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Miami wrote:
Well, I can tell you now. It will be a long time before we see the ME3 at MIA. If ever..


Move off the hyperbole. FLL is one of many cities that has accidentally appeared on the EK route map. Maybe EK will come to FLL, maybe it won't. Nothing is happening in the immediate future.


That's what you think. But I know something you don't.


Oh lord you just can't help yourself in playing that card can you. Yes, we know you're some sort of low level employee associated with the Miami airport - fine. Lot's of us work for carriers or airports or what have you and have insights that we can't share or even allude to on a message board, but saying "What I'm saying is true because I know something you don't know but I can't share that information" is the conversational equivalent of flipping over the monopoly board. Weren't you also so absolutely sure that some Asian carrier was going to 'imminently' start service to Miami last November or something of the like?
 
Lep
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:33 pm

Long time lurker

Finally made an ID

Btw AA pulled the entire ticketing agreement on Ek.

Ek will announce FLL

Daily eff 15Dec 77L eqp
 
NichCage
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:54 pm

Thanks to everybody who has added to my post. For the moment right now, I believe Emirates will be just fine with Orlando. There is not much need for Emirates to fly to Miami right now.
 
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:58 pm

NichCage wrote:
There is not much need for Emirates to fly to Miami right now.


Not right now. And probably not in 10 years.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
B752OS
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:05 pm

Do people currently fly say BOM-DOH-MIA-BOG? Is it common for international passengers to connect through MIA on their way to Central and South America?
 
MAH4546
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:12 pm

NichCage wrote:
Thanks to everybody who has added to my post. For the moment right now, I believe Emirates will be just fine with Orlando. There is not much need for Emirates to fly to Miami right now.


Orlando is Orlando. Emirates needs to be in the South Florida market in the long term, and probably will enter it in the not-so-distant future. However, in addition to considering service to Miami, it is considering serving Fort Lauderdale instead of Miami, in order to tap into jetBlue's FLL hub. This would serve the purpose of the failed and never-launched Panama City route. FLL, however, provides it's own set of issues, including a short runway and inadequate facilities, plus trying to convince higher yielding passengers to use it over MIA.
a.
 
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:14 pm

B752OS wrote:
Do people currently fly say BOM-DOH-MIA-BOG?

Funny you mention it, because yes. That does happen. PTY as well.

The majority of people on QR that fly to Doha are connecting to India, Thailand, Pakistan, and Vietnam IIRC. I may be confused with one of them.

As for connecting at MIA, they all go to the islands, Central America, and a few countries in South America. Or of course, to see the mouse.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MaRoFu
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:24 pm

I still question why Emirates chose Orlando over other airports such as San Diego, San Juan, Newark, etc...
Airports I have been to:
DFW, EWR, IAH, JFK, LAS, LGA, MCO, MIA, NRT, ORD, PHL, PHX, SEA, SLC, YTZ, YYZ
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:55 pm

MaRoFu wrote:
I still question why Emirates chose Orlando over other airports such as San Diego, San Juan, Newark, etc...

...MCO serves way more people than SAN and SJU combined, so that's no real shocker.

That, and while it's certainly worth questioning why EK has chosen to avoid EWR, the fact remains that they still serve that overall metro via their JFK gateway.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:16 pm

MaRoFu wrote:
I still question why Emirates chose Orlando over other airports such as San Diego, San Juan, Newark, etc...


The thing is, EK's philosophy is to get their foot in the door. They don't employ the strategy used by legacy carriers like DL, BA, And LH where they fly both SEA-NRT and PDX-NRT, TPA-LGW and MCO-LGW, SJC-FRA and SFO-FRA, etc. Cities that are a few hours apart work for their business model, but for ultra-long haul carriers like the ME3, this strategy doesn't work. EK establishes a foothold in a region or a big market, but uses the capacity advantage of multiple frequencies and/or the A380 to funnel all traffic through a single major airport as a pose to 2 or 3 separate ones within a single region. If EK has double/triple daily in JFK, they're not going to launch EWR or PHL before they launch something at least 4-5 hrs from the next closest destination, Chicago. They'll go for something geographically different with its own market, like DTW for example.
 
wenders825
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:04 pm

emirates at FLL...can't imagine how low those yields will be on all ends.
 
B752OS
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Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:11 pm

wenders825 wrote:
emirates at FLL...can't imagine how low those yields will be on all ends.


Would the yields be any different at FLL vs. MIA?
 
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kaminari
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:25 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:54 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
inadequate facilities

Its a shame that FLL is not.. you know... constructing brand new larger concourses/customs/more gates.....

Also, the EK thing seems like its just to mess with you guys.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25927
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Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:15 am

kaminari wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
inadequate facilities

Its a shame that FLL is not.. you know... constructing brand new larger concourses/customs/more gates.....

Also, the EK thing seems like its just to mess with you guys.


Nobody is being messed with. EK and FLL have had legitimate conversations as Emirates figures out what South Florida airport to use.
a.
 
globalcabotage
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:55 am

Needed to refresh my popcorn while reading this thread. As much as I poke MIA, I'm surprised EY is not there due to AA. EK, I'll never figure out.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:36 am

jfk777 wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
?? what excuses? what are you talking about? If Emirates thought there was a good market in Miami, they'd be in Miami. Period. What makes a good Emirates market? In the US, there has to be a good amount of demand to/ from India and Southeast Asia, India primarily. The VAST MAJORITY of passengers on any USA -AUH/DOH/DXB flight are simply passing through those hubs on their way to India and Pakistan, with SOME traffic to southeast Asia. If the city in question in the USA doesn't generate a lot of traffic to/ from those destinations, they're not going to get much ME3 action. Next, they need a partner, which is used to top off a flight. EK doesn't have that in Miami. Maybe you don't think Orlando is "serious Business" (whatever that means) but I have friends who work in the profitability analysis group at EK who say that MCO is doing EXTREMELY well for them. Sorry that doesn't work with your narrative.
Look, these airlines have very smart people who work for them who decide where they will fly. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping any of them from flying to Miami. Perhaps the fact that EK and EY doesn't says something about the limits of the MIA market. Just a thought.


jfk777 wrote:
What ME3 flights to Miami, for such a large international hub, the hub for Latin America there is only one Qatar 777 daily. Where is Emirates ? Doing Mickey Mouse in Orlando not the serious Business in Miami. One reason Emirates has a Miami allergy is the lack of Jet Blue at MIA. EK flies to 3 west coast cities plus 2 cities in Texas, the point where Miami is on their list has to be here, no more excuses.


Just because Emirates doesn't have a code share deal with AA doesn't mean it doesn't connect with AA. How the hell do you think DFW works for Emirates ? Because the connect to AA. IF Emirates can make a flight to Panama( which was cancelled) work from Dubai it can make a shorter flight to a bigger market work with a 777.

Miami is the best place to connect to all Latin America for an airline from a very distant land like Emirates. Miami is also the best airport for Emirates to serve the huge South Florida market for travel to their part of the world and to bring people for cruises to the Caribbean. It not just about the passenger going to India and Pakistan. IF a small central European airline like Austrian can make Miami work then a huge airline like Emirates can.


Wow! Every single thing you wrote you made up and is 100% inaccurate. There is so much blatant cluelessness here its comical.

First off, EK has NO ticketing or interline agreement with AA. Passengers CANNOT connect between AA and EK at DFW. DFW-DXB works for one reason: the massive Subcontinent population and the large amount of Subcontinent business ties in DFW. DFW has the single largest Subcontinent population in the South and its well over double the size it is in South Florida. DFW has the 5th largest Indian population in the US recently passing LA (by metro area) and its the 4th fastest growing in terms of immigrants from India after NYC, the Bay Area, and Chicago (again by metro area).

Thats how the ME3 work in DFW. QR hands off a good deal of connections at DFW and MIA. EY has some but significantly less than QR. EK is all DFW-Middle East/Subcontinent/Africa O&D.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:40 am

MAH4546 wrote:
There is a good-sized local market between Miami and the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent, which is something that bothers a lot of people, but is nonetheless factual. That's the market it serves. Another airline will join Qatar and Turkish in due time, whether it be Emirates or Etihad. The market is large, they won't ignore it forever.


Mark, I respect you but that middle statement is BS and you and I both know it. No one is bothered by the size of the market between MIA and the Subcontinent. If anything, some MIA posters are bothered by the fact that there is only ME3 carrier there.

Good sized is relative. South Florida is so overwhelmingly a Latin America/Europe/Caribbean oriented market, that Asia and Africa often get well overshadowed.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
wenders825
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:05 am

B752OS wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
emirates at FLL...can't imagine how low those yields will be on all ends.


Would the yields be any different at FLL vs. MIA?

I highly doubt it. the market to india/SE asia is tiny and not nearly what people think it is. if jetblue and AA did not exist for low dollar connections at FLL and MIA, you would likely not see EK or QR at either.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25927
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:18 am

wenders825 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
emirates at FLL...can't imagine how low those yields will be on all ends.


Would the yields be any different at FLL vs. MIA?

I highly doubt it. the market to india/SE asia is tiny and not nearly what people think it is. if jetblue and AA did not exist for low dollar connections at FLL and MIA, you would likely not see EK or QR at either.


It's not "tiny" by any measure, with Miami-Manila alone, thanks to the cruise industry, being one of the most travelled city pairs between the Southeast U.S. and Asia, bigger than even Dallas-Tokyo or Houston-Beijing. Miami-India is fast growing and pretty near 80/90 PDEW, if it hasn't exceeded that already. I'm sure fares aren't great, but you can say the same for the likes of DFW, ATL, BOS, etc. ME3 carriers make it work, hence the US3 hate them so much.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25927
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:29 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
There is a good-sized local market between Miami and the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent, which is something that bothers a lot of people, but is nonetheless factual. That's the market it serves. Another airline will join Qatar and Turkish in due time, whether it be Emirates or Etihad. The market is large, they won't ignore it forever.


Mark, I respect you but that middle statement is BS and you and I both know it. No one is bothered by the size of the market between MIA and the Subcontinent. If anything, some MIA posters are bothered by the fact that there is only ME3 carrier there.

Good sized is relative. South Florida is so overwhelmingly a Latin America/Europe/Caribbean oriented market, that Asia and Africa often get well overshadowed.


It's constantly "Turkish will never fly there," "KLM will never return," "Qatar Airways can't make it work," "SAS won't find the yield," "how do you fill a plane to Moscow?," "TAP will never last," "Austrian failed in the 90s, they'll never come back." And yet, here we are.

People get illogically angry when somebody asks about EK and Miami, when it's not entirely illogical to have that discussion. It's clearly one of the three big holes in EK's U.S. network alongside Atlanta and Newark. EK decided on an alternative strategy of using Orlando and Panama City as gateways to the region. MCO seems to be working, PTY obviously didn't, which will open the door to either MIA or FLL.
a.

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