anjin
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:49 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:36 am

I once flew into DOH from Manchester. You turn left to enter Doha and right to transit. I was the only one to turn left!
 
atal17
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:56 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:11 am

Well, now we know where EK lies on this debate :D
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5957
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:35 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
B752OS wrote:

Would the yields be any different at FLL vs. MIA?

I highly doubt it. the market to india/SE asia is tiny and not nearly what people think it is. if jetblue and AA did not exist for low dollar connections at FLL and MIA, you would likely not see EK or QR at either.


It's not "tiny" by any measure, with Miami-Manila alone, thanks to the cruise industry, being one of the most travelled city pairs between the Southeast U.S. and Asia, bigger than even Dallas-Tokyo or Houston-Beijing. Miami-India is fast growing and pretty near 80/90 PDEW, if it hasn't exceeded that already. I'm sure fares aren't great, but you can say the same for the likes of DFW, ATL, BOS, etc. ME3 carriers make it work, hence the US3 hate them so much.


Two things.

1) MIA-MNL might be the single most low yielding US-Asia market. The fares are such garbage they make India fares look good. DFW-NRT and IAH-PEK are much higher yielding than MIA-MNL. Also, besides MNL, there isn't a single MIA-East Asia market that is of much significance in size.

2) DFW/BOS/ATL-India are far larger than MIA-India.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8491
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:39 pm

Can't wait to see the 777 parked next to the A330 on hardstand. 8-)


MAH4546 wrote:
It's constantly "Turkish will never fly there," "KLM will never return," "Qatar Airways can't make it work," "SAS won't find the yield," "how do you fill a plane to Moscow?," "TAP will never last," "Austrian failed in the 90s, they'll never come back." And yet, here we are..


How is that different from EK will NEVER serve FLL?

MAH4546 wrote:
People get illogically angry when somebody asks about EK and Miami.


No...they don't. Stop exaggerating.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4711
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:49 pm

727LOVER wrote:
No...they don't. Stop exaggerating.

Precisely. And it's really quite childish to keep repeating it.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
ojas
Posts: 1190
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:19 pm

So with EK choosing FLL over MIA and EY not in any good shape to further expand into the USA, MIA might have TK and QR only for the near future.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25936
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:10 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Can't wait to see the 777 parked next to the A330 on hardstand. 8-)


MAH4546 wrote:
It's constantly "Turkish will never fly there," "KLM will never return," "Qatar Airways can't make it work," "SAS won't find the yield," "how do you fill a plane to Moscow?," "TAP will never last," "Austrian failed in the 90s, they'll never come back." And yet, here we are..


How is that different from EK will NEVER serve FLL?

MAH4546 wrote:
People get illogically angry when somebody asks about EK and Miami.


No...they don't. Stop exaggerating.


Yes they do. If somebody even dared ask the logical question of why Emirates would serve one he country's biggest long-haul markets they would be shot down with bogus "facts." When EK announced PTY - a huge misfire - posters gloated how it meant doom for future service to Miami on EK. Funny enough it was the very failure of Panama City that likely paved way to this announcement.

I did used to say EK would never serve FLL. And I was wrong. I stopped saying that a bit ago after the JetBlue partnership strengthened and it became more logical. No big deal.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25936
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:15 pm

ojas wrote:
So with EK choosing FLL over MIA and EY not in any good shape to further expand into the USA, MIA might have TK and QR only for the near future.


How is EY not in any good shape to expand? It literally just announced daily service to Dallas in the past hour.
a.
 
ojas
Posts: 1190
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:31 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
ojas wrote:
So with EK choosing FLL over MIA and EY not in any good shape to further expand into the USA, MIA might have TK and QR only for the near future.


How is EY not in any good shape to expand? It literally just announced daily service to Dallas in the past hour.


True and it was due for a while, there were talks to and fro with AA launching AUH but with EY going daily to DFW that option is ruled out.

Having said that the way the slide in oil prices has affected Etihad is borderline alarming. With a lot of job insecurities looming around, they have been conservative in their approach expanding anywhere especially in the USA. One would have expected them to go whole hog and match shoulder to shoulder with EK and QR, but its the other way.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25936
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:40 pm

ojas wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
ojas wrote:
So with EK choosing FLL over MIA and EY not in any good shape to further expand into the USA, MIA might have TK and QR only for the near future.


How is EY not in any good shape to expand? It literally just announced daily service to Dallas in the past hour.


True and it was due for a while, there were talks to and fro with AA launching AUH but with EY going daily to DFW that option is ruled out.

Having said that the way the slide in oil prices has affected Etihad is borderline alarming. With a lot of job insecurities looming around, they have been conservative in their approach expanding anywhere especially in the USA. One would have expected them to go whole hog and match shoulder to shoulder with EK and QR, but its the other way.


I agree it is odd that EY has not really done much adding Stateside since, IIRC, Dallas, but I think another destination or two (Newark? Miami?) is overdue and could happen in the next few months.

Re: AA, AA was indeed very close to adding Abu Dhabi - first it was going to be from MIA and then the plan became from DFW - as part of a much stronger partnership with EY that failed to materialize.
a.
 
ojas
Posts: 1190
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:01 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
ojas wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

How is EY not in any good shape to expand? It literally just announced daily service to Dallas in the past hour.


True and it was due for a while, there were talks to and fro with AA launching AUH but with EY going daily to DFW that option is ruled out.

Having said that the way the slide in oil prices has affected Etihad is borderline alarming. With a lot of job insecurities looming around, they have been conservative in their approach expanding anywhere especially in the USA. One would have expected them to go whole hog and match shoulder to shoulder with EK and QR, but its the other way.


I agree it is odd that EY has not really done much adding Stateside since, IIRC, Dallas, but I think another destination or two (Newark? Miami?) is overdue and could happen in the next few months.

Re: AA, AA was indeed very close to adding Abu Dhabi - first it was going to be from MIA and then the plan became from DFW - as part of a much stronger partnership with EY that failed to materialize.


I'm very apprehensive about that. In my side of the world, EY and 9W are in a major tiff at the moment and because of this internal rift, this is affecting their sales strategies. As you would know how QR and EY buy business in the USA, they follow the same practice in every market as well. Fortunately or unfortunately the same has not worked in India and they struggle to fill flights even during shoulder/peak seasons, despite all the pre clearance/residences/duplex and what not that they offer on their A380 via their hub in AUH.

As much as we keep the free oil/ vanity project arguments aside, the pressure on improving yields. Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi oil companies and corporate spending cuts have resulted in a permanent damage to the premium profile in that region and it is upto the airlines now how they adapt to this change.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
User avatar
Carp12c
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:24 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:05 pm

Miami wrote:
NichCage wrote:
but what market do they serve in and out of Miami? Very few passengers from Miami would go to Qatar to just visit Doha, as well as passengers from Doha going to just visit Miami.

To Miami, passenger connect anywhere in Florida, to the Caribbean, Central America, and Northern parts of South America. To DOH, it's mainly to India, Philippines, Thailand and other parts of Asia.

NichCage wrote:
I also wonder if Emirates and Ethiad Airways will ever fly to Miami. Would there ever be a market for those two airlines in Miami?

I lost hope on Emirates. They simply want to fly to FLL because of B6 but can't make it happen.

Etihad is a possibility because of their partnership with AA.

Mark my words, Etihad will be in Miami before Emirates enters the South Florida market. Besides, Etihad isn't even in Florida. One would think they would be in Florida by now.


I see no one has asked the question, so I might as well ask it for everyone. Seeing how Emirates has just entered the South Florida Market, where in the world is Etihad, now that Emirates has entered the South Florida market... One must wonder if Emirates has scared them off.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8491
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:26 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
When EK announced PTY - a huge misfire - posters gloated how it meant doom for future service to Miami on EK..


Here's the EK announces PTY thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=593741&hilit=EK+announces+PTY


Here's what I found in reference to MIA

No, You need to go to PTY to understand....nothing against MIA but if it is the latin traffic they are looking for PTY will work much better as there is no immigration and customs needed in PTY. MIA absolutely sucks if you are trying to make an international connection from and international flight.






Great news as this becomes Emirates first flight to North Latin America and avoids all the unpleasentness of MIA.






No he means MIA....its a horrible zoo and IAH is rapidly catching up





He meant that if EK were looking to make an addition that would provide expanded Latin American connections, then choosing PTY over MIA avoids the zoo at MIA and provides an easier transit experience.




because honestly like stated above clearing customs or connecting in MIA (at least in the north terminal) is just a nightmare that doesn't stop.




Besides with EK already in MCO and PTY (if true) should shut down all prospects of MIA in the future for a good 5 to 6 years at least.




Wow interesting move, EK is definitely thinking outside the box and rather cleverly too. They choose Orlando as their Florida destination and Panama City as their LATAM connection destination, completely allowing themselves to bypass the traditional Florida/Latin gateway of Miami. Kudos to Emirates, very smart way to avoid competition. Let's see if this flight works, I'm sure it will be an A380 in 3 years. Also lets try and keep the EK and MIA fan boying too a minimum.






Ironically enough Miami is sometimes referred to as the Dubai of Latin America as well. For MIA, I think the competition is just too strong. Yes the market is there, but the fact that QR has the same connection opportunities ex-Middle East plus a powerhouse of AA connections at MIA makes them a stronger player than EK could ever be out of MIA. If anything EY will go to MIA before EK, because of their very strong relationship with AA. And who knows, maybe EK is trying to launch MIA but does not have satisfactory slot times, fees, etc. Anyways, EK probably has logical reasons for not being in MIA. So please, let's consider the MIA issue settled for now.




Exactly. Even if you have a ESTA or a Visa (or even if you are an US passport holder) travelling through the US is an additional annoyance. Why the need to answer to stupid questions at a CBP when you are flying from, let's say, Nicaragua to Iran?

I believe that hassle will drive passengers to connect elsewhere other than in the USA. This could be exactly why MIA wasn't launched (again).




No MIA would be an O&D flight primarily as EK does not have a partner in MIA unlike QR and EY.



Practically all of that was referring to immigration, customs, transiting....NOT market
So where are you getting your comment from?


Now, this last one was deleted, but someone had copied it.

First Orlando and now Panama City. Second dailies to Boston and Seattle. How embarrassing for Emirates that they keep neglecting a market that - as we are so endlessly told on this site - is simply overflowing with premium traffic, champagne yields and caviar demand. Don't they know what they're missing?!?!?

Hey dude,...that one's on YOU
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 6089
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:29 pm

Carp12c wrote:
I see no one has asked the question, so I might as well ask it for everyone. Seeing how Emirates has just entered the South Florida Market, where in the world is Etihad, now that Emirates has entered the South Florida market... One must wonder if Emirates has scared them off.

Scared? Etihad isn't scared of Emirates.

Just give Etihad time. I'm sure now that Emirates is at FLL, Etihad will look into Florida even more. MIA is a given with AA.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
B752OS
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:08 pm

How much connecting traffic is QR getting through MIA?
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 6089
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:17 pm

B752OS wrote:
How much connecting traffic is QR getting through MIA?

I'd say more than 80%
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25936
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:23 pm

Miami wrote:
B752OS wrote:
How much connecting traffic is QR getting through MIA?

I'd say more than 80%


The majority of QR's MIA traffic is originating/terminating in MIA. If you mean "more than 80%" is connecting beyond Doha, then, yeah, it's probably closer to more like 95%+.

727LOVER wrote:


Practically all of that was referring to immigration, customs, transiting....NOT market
So where are you getting your comment from?


I'm getting it from right there. Thanks for proving me right.
Last edited by MAH4546 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:24 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
MaRoFu wrote:
I still question why Emirates chose Orlando over other airports such as San Diego, San Juan, Newark, etc. <> They'll go for something geographically different with its own market, like DTW for example.
DTW probably won't happen, the population for Middle East travelers is primarily from Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Yemen, none in which are a logical option for DTW. Our heavy India and Bangladesh population could support it, but still there's other cities Emirates could do better business in since DTW has easily 1 stop India connections through either AMS or EWR, /9 in EKs eyes, there's no need for DTW to happen, same goes for QR, Etihad and Turkish. The 2 weekly RJ flight to Amman is enough for our ME travelers and some of India while Lufthansa and Air France offer the best one stop connection for our Indian passengers. No need for any more ME carriers besides RJ at DTW.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: The ME3 in Miami

Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:25 pm

Miami wrote:
B752OS wrote:
How much connecting traffic is QR getting through MIA?

I'd say more than 80%


Let me rephrase my question; how much traffic is QR getting that is connecting to/from AA flights in MIA? I don't mean those flying MIA-DOH-BOM. Rather CCS-MIA-DOH-BOM or DEL-DOH-MIA-BOG.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos