DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
DFW - FCO " "
ORD - BCN " "
DFW - KOA for Feb to March and June to July 2017
MIA - HPN goes year round

Deletions:
PHL - BRU as of 8/21 - already done
ORD - DUS - closed 9/6
JFK - BHX closes 1/6/2017 (edited to correct, sorry)
PHL - ZRH ends 9/30/16
PHL - HPN ends 12/14/16
PHL - YHZ - closes 1/8/17 (edited to correct, sorry)

Wow - impressive expansion if true. Any word on equipment? Source? Nothing on FT.

If true I am surprised ORD gets BCN and not DFW, it was rumored DFW would get a BCN flight. DFW to AMS is very surprising.

braniff2hav wrote:

ORD - BCN

That is exciting... I am guessing this is the first time these cities have been connected? Nice to see AA explore outside the box from ORD. That said, I would imagine there are enough One World loyalists in Barcelona that would provide significant feed from that end also?

Does Iberia have much of a hub at BCN? Finding route maps seems to be getting harder and harder these days.

You mean JFK-BHX, right? Not too surprising that ORD-DUS, PHL-BRU, and PHL-ZRH are going away. However, this will constitute a complete pullout from BRU, and also from YHZ.

Any idea why they wouldn't operate DFW-KOA for April and May as well? It seems like rather spotty service.

United787 wrote:

braniff2hav wrote:

ORD - BCN

That is exciting... I am guessing this is the first time these cities have been connected? Nice to see AA explore outside the box from ORD. That said, I would imagine there are enough One World loyalists in Barcelona that would provide significant feed from that end also?

Does Iberia have much of a hub at BCN? Finding route maps seems to be getting harder and harder these days.

ORD-BCN was flown in the past by PIA, twice weekly.

Iberia only flies to Madrid from Barcelona, and regional flights to Leone and Badajoz.

Vueling is owned by IAG, has a partnership with AA, and a huge operation at El Prat.

FSDan wrote:

You mean JFK-BHX, right? Not too surprising that ORD-DUS, PHL-BRU, and PHL-ZRH are going away. However, this will constitute a complete pullout from BRU, and also from YHZ.

Any idea why they wouldn't operate DFW-KOA for April and May as well? It seems like rather spotty service.

Yes, - my apologies - BHX, not BHM

ultra minor typo : the YHZ line probably meant "PHL" not "PHI"

Nice additions, all of which I think should do well. DFW-AMS is just replacing KLM and should do better since, unlike KL, AA won't be competing with the ME3 for connecting traffic on this route. I suppose it is a bit weird to see an AA Europe route served from DFW, but not from ORD or JFK.

Any word on whether or not YHZ will served from LGA? sad to see Halifax go! one of my favorite layovers.

a380787 wrote:

ultra minor typo : the YHZ line probably meant "PHL" not "PHI"

Thanks for pointing that out. Corrected. Sorry - ipad not 'friendly' today.

braniff2hav wrote:

DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
DFW - FCO " "
ORD - BCN " "

I really have to question the future of CLT-BCN/FCO with these additions. Do you really need DFW/ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT-FCO? Same with JFK/ORD/PHL/MIA/CLT-BCN.

No surprise on PHL-BRU. Not too much of a surprise on PHL-ZRH, but still somewhat interesting that they can't make it work.

American Airlines sure made some network additions and cuts. DFW is gaining a lot by getting flights to AMS, FCO, and KOA. ORD-BCN is quite an unserved market, and along with the Vueling network in BCN will make the flight successful. Miami is getting a year round flight, but I don't feel American Airlines need to expand there MIA network at the moment.

PHL-BRU was bound to be cancelled at some point. After the situation in Brussels most airlines have resumed operations but maybe it was low passsenger numbers on PHL-BRU that caused it to be cancelled. It was also on the airlines 757-200, which is the smallest narrowbody they have for the route.

ORD-DUS is a seasonal route, but it really didn't work. I have heard rumors saying Air Berlin will fly ORD-DUS, is that true or no?

JFK-BHX seemed like a good route when it launched. However, the Brexit must be having an impact on this flight. It was also flown with the airlines 757-200, so if loads are low then there are no other planes they can fly on the route. Sad to see it being cut, as LHR regardless of the Brexit will still have service from American Airlines.

PHL has sadly been getting some serious reductions. PHL-BRU is being cut, along with ZRH, HPN, and YHZ.

usairways85 wrote:

braniff2hav wrote:

DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
DFW - FCO " "
ORD - BCN " "

I really have to question the future of CLT-BCN/FCO with these additions. Do you really need DFW/ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT-FCO? Same with JFK/ORD/PHL/MIA/CLT-BCN.

No surprise on PHL-BRU. Not too much of a surprise on PHL-ZRH, but still somewhat interesting that they can't make it work.

I think for FCO, only PHL is year-round while JFK ORD CLT are all seasonal. If I were to guess, the new DFW-FCO should also be seasonal.

On the topic of PHL cancellations, it seems that remaining services to certain rival hubs are rather thin --

AMS - was PHL now add DFW
MUC - just PHL
ZRH - just JFK
GVA - nothing
BRU - nothing

a380787 wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

braniff2hav wrote:

DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
DFW - FCO " "
ORD - BCN " "

I really have to question the future of CLT-BCN/FCO with these additions. Do you really need DFW/ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT-FCO? Same with JFK/ORD/PHL/MIA/CLT-BCN.

No surprise on PHL-BRU. Not too much of a surprise on PHL-ZRH, but still somewhat interesting that they can't make it work.

I think for FCO, only PHL is year-round while JFK ORD CLT are all seasonal. If I were to guess, the new DFW-FCO should also be seasonal.

PHL is the closest to being year-round but over the past few winters it has been suspended for 4-6 weeks. Even if DFW is summer only, FCO will be roughly 1500 seats a day on 5 333/772 sized flights.

Great adds for DFW! But as DFW is AA's main connecting hub (or just main hub, period), I wouldn't be surprised to see an FCO flight cut from one of the other hubs that don't have absolutely HUGE O&D.

FSDan wrote:

Any idea why they wouldn't operate DFW-KOA for April and May as well? It seems like rather spotty service.

I'm thinking the first set of dates is for Spring Break and the second is for peak summer travel season.

FCO is (likely) a summer cash cow (on routes of this type) and BCN is too. High dollar tourist traffic. I don't know that AMS falls into the same category. So, it may be more of a tentative push at a more business route that could go year round.

These routes appear to be an integration of AA and US style route planning. An extension of the fairly recent seasonal CLT-FCO and CLT-BCN adds.

GSPSPOT wrote:

Great adds for DFW! But as DFW is AA's main connecting hub (or just main hub, period), I wouldn't be surprised to see an FCO flight cut from one of the other hubs that don't have absolutely HUGE O&D.

Hahaha "Main hub period". Let's not get carried away here. Just remember which hub prints the most money for American.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/b ... rylink=cpy

JetBlueCLT wrote:

GSPSPOT wrote:

Great adds for DFW! But as DFW is AA's main connecting hub (or just main hub, period), I wouldn't be surprised to see an FCO flight cut from one of the other hubs that don't have absolutely HUGE O&D.

Hahaha "Main hub period". Let's not get carried away here. Just remember which hub prints the most money for American.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/b ... rylink=cpy

"Most profitable" is a vague term that does not mean "prints the most money."

I can see cutting PHL-BRU since BRU is mostly a Star Alliance hub, but it is sad to see ZRH go. PHL-ZRH has been on a 767 recently, is one of those new routes using the 767 perhaps? Or maybe because of retirements?

JetBlueCLT wrote:

GSPSPOT wrote:

Great adds for DFW! But as DFW is AA's main connecting hub (or just main hub, period), I wouldn't be surprised to see an FCO flight cut from one of the other hubs that don't have absolutely HUGE O&D.

Hahaha "Main hub period". Let's not get carried away here. Just remember which hub prints the most money for American.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/b ... rylink=cpy

You cannot possibly be insinuating that CLT is more important to AA than DFW...

Give me a break.

ams747757 wrote:

I can see cutting PHL-BRU since BRU is mostly a Star Alliance hub

DL has no issue flying into this "star alliance hub" from 2 airports. UA has no issue flying into AMS from 4 airports.

MAH4546 wrote:

Iberia only flies to Madrid from Barcelona, and regional flights to Leone and Badajoz.

Iberia only flies MAD.

León and Badajoz are operated by Air Nostrum, which is fully independent carrier that just operates regional services for Iberia. Those are heavily subsidised routes by the local governments, and probably Vueling planes are too big for those tiny markets, hence YW.

So Iberia has really no say in LEN or BJZ, other than probably putting their codes in order to get some connections for Vueling.

Not surprised in the slightest about BHX.

JFK-BHX was definitely short lived. IIRC, it barely started 5/7/2015.

HPN-PHL is still bookable. But, if it goes, it makes sense, as AA makes way for HPN-MIA, especially as HPN is a slot airport.

B6 must be printing money on it's HPN-Florida service, with no direct competitor, after AirTran (Southwest) ended service. I wonder if AA would ever dare to add a route like HPN-MCO to complement HPN-MIA? AA has very few non hub touching routes unlike DL, And, if I recall, those non hub routes touch BOS and are inherited routes from US (e.g. MDT-BOS).

phluser wrote:

HPN-PHL is still bookable. But, if it goes, it makes sense, as AA makes way for HPN-MIA, especially as HPN is a slot airport.

B6 must be printing money on it's HPN-Florida service, with no direct competitor, after AirTran (Southwest) ended service. I wonder if AA would ever dare to add a route like HPN-MCO to complement HPN-MIA? AA has very few non hub touching routes unlike DL, And, if I recall, those non hub routes touch BOS and are inherited routes from US (e.g. MDT-BOS).

Every non-hub (counting LGA and JFK as a hub) route is PMUS except FLL-PAP and MID-PEI.

JetBlueCLT wrote:

GSPSPOT wrote:

Great adds for DFW! But as DFW is AA's main connecting hub (or just main hub, period), I wouldn't be surprised to see an FCO flight cut from one of the other hubs that don't have absolutely HUGE O&D.

Hahaha "Main hub period". Let's not get carried away here. Just remember which hub prints the most money for American.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/b ... rylink=cpy

There's nothing in that Charlotte Observer article that asserts CLT is AA's most profitable hub, nor that it (equally vague) prints the most money. It notes that CLT domestic fares are above the national average but also notes that only about 20% of the traffic is O&D - profitability of the hub across all travelers can't be inferred.

Flighty wrote:

FCO is (likely) a summer cash cow (on routes of this type) and BCN is too. High dollar tourist traffic. I don't know that AMS falls into the same category. So, it may be more of a tentative push at a more business route that could go year round.

These routes appear to be an integration of AA and US style route planning. An extension of the fairly recent seasonal CLT-FCO and CLT-BCN adds.

Honestly, I think any US-Europe route is "high dollar" in the summer months. The problem for most airlines is making these routes work in winter, especially from cities which have enough J class demand to require daily, year-round service but where Y is quite empty and cheap for most of the year.

If that DFW-Rome nonstop is true, we're gonna have some happy clients

is it just possible that PHL-ZRH is just a seasonal cancellation that will return in the Spring?

DFW-AMS will be operated with B767-300ER aircraft . DFW-FCO with B777-200ER .

Now we know why they were hiring Dutch speaking FAs recently

FlightOps69 wrote:

is it just possible that PHL-ZRH is just a seasonal cancellation that will return in the Spring?

I wonder if AA will bring back DFW-ZRH. They are adding a few Europe flights to DFW. I understand that flight did very well until SW left One-World.

United787 wrote:

braniff2hav wrote:

ORD - BCN

That is exciting... I am guessing this is the first time these cities have been connected? Nice to see AA explore outside the box from ORD. That said, I would imagine there are enough One World loyalists in Barcelona that would provide significant feed from that end also?

Does Iberia have much of a hub at BCN? Finding route maps seems to be getting harder and harder these days.

Nope, back when PIA serviced ORD they operated through BCN. It will certainly be nice to see this again!

braniff2hav wrote:

DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
DFW - FCO " "
ORD - BCN " "
DFW - KOA for Feb to March and June to July 2017
MIA - HPN goes year round

Deletions:
PHL - BRU as of 8/21 - already done
ORD - DUS - closed 9/6
JFK - BHX closes 1/6/2017 (edited to correct, sorry)
PHL - ZRH ends 9/30/16
PHL - HPN ends 12/14/16
PHL - YHZ - closes 1/8/17 (edited to correct, sorry)

Here's a link to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram about DFW-AMS/FCO that confirms their local additions and the system cancellations.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/busin ... 14882.html

Hopefully AB will pick up ORD-DUS. First LH, now AA. Sad to see that route go from 2x Daily to 0. And Still surprising AA has yet to add ORD-MXP, seems like a notable gap in service

Working with the AA product everyday im not surprised to see the service cut, the loads were poor, the 757s on the route are knackered, we have encountered many tech delays with them and they offer a far inferior product to UA who are well established on the NYC-BHX services.

The end of ORD-DUS is surprising, considering that DUS is a AB hub. But, if you look at this past summer, AA added the 4th ORD-LHR non-stop while swapping a 772 for a 773, and BA swapped the 773 for a 744. In the grand scheme of things, it seems that Oneworld is focused on sending European traffic out of ORD to LHR for connections.

The end of PHL-YHZ is also a bit of surprise, if AA has no other service to YHZ. Halifax is the connecting hub for the Canadian Maritimes. To not fly into YHZ is simply giving traffic to DL, UA, and AC.

What is AA's plan for PHL? It's been suggested here that PHL was supposed to be a connecting hub for Europe, in part, because AA is limited in growth at JFK due to the number of slots it has. It can't add more flights to domestic cities, in order to create traffic to European destinations. In effect, JFK would be more of an O&D station, while the connecting traffic to Europe from the Northeast and Midwest would go through PHL.

I know this is mentioned quite a bit, but when AA adds LAX flights, they should add DTW, with UA adding SFO-DTW it's possible that AA can do the same with LAX.

It is a sham that AA is using the ghetto bird on DFW-AMS. With the 789s coming, was it really that difficult to send even an old 772 on that route?!

DolphinAir747 wrote:

Honestly, I think any US-Europe route is "high dollar" in the summer months. The problem for most airlines is making these routes work in winter, especially from cities which have enough J class demand to require daily, year-round service but where Y is quite empty and cheap for most of the year.

Absolutely. Between strong partner hubs, and the large widebody fleets that can be moved around seasonally, the trend at the U.S. legacies really seems to be going to summer seasonal for most Europe routes, except those to partner hubs and those to key financial and banking cities like ZRH, FRA, or MXP. Seasonal fluctuation has always been a problem for the industry, though. TW had year round service on 747s to ATH, MAD, and FCO for much of the 1980s, but those flights were often extremely empty in the winter and crazy oversold in the summer. DL probably moves as many people to and from ATH each year as TW did, but they fly the route less than half the time and then 10 times a week in the summer.

The question is how not to annoy elites by routing too much winter traffic through partner hubs - like AA will for all 3 of these new summer seasonal Europe flights. Going to southern Europe in the off season sucks, because you have the awful 6am connection through the partner hub, and then the extremely early departure on the way home to make the mid-morning partner hub connection. I always try to wait to go to europe until at least March when some of the shoulder season non stops come back - because the schedules are so much more convenient.

In addition to the previously mentioned changes,ORD-CDG will go seasonal, suspending from January to April.

TW870 wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

Honestly, I think any US-Europe route is "high dollar" in the summer months. The problem for most airlines is making these routes work in winter, especially from cities which have enough J class demand to require daily, year-round service but where Y is quite empty and cheap for most of the year.

Absolutely. Between strong partner hubs, and the large widebody fleets that can be moved around seasonally, the trend at the U.S. legacies really seems to be going to summer seasonal for most Europe routes, except those to partner hubs and those to key financial and banking cities like ZRH, FRA, or MXP. Seasonal fluctuation has always been a problem for the industry, though. TW had year round service on 747s to ATH, MAD, and FCO for much of the 1980s, but those flights were often extremely empty in the winter and crazy oversold in the summer. DL probably moves as many people to and from ATH each year as TW did, but they fly the route less than half the time and then 10 times a week in the summer.

The question is how not to annoy elites by routing too much winter traffic through partner hubs - like AA will for all 3 of these new summer seasonal Europe flights. Going to southern Europe in the off season sucks, because you have the awful 6am connection through the partner hub, and then the extremely early departure on the way home to make the mid-morning partner hub connection. I always try to wait to go to europe until at least March when some of the shoulder season non stops come back - because the schedules are so much more convenient.

You wait half a year to travel to another continent just because the flights leave later in the morning?

Varsity1 wrote:

You wait half a year to travel to another continent just because the flights leave later in the morning?

No. You can juggle a trip by a few weeks and pick up the trips that resume during the shoulder season. What I mean is that these are both 1-stop schedules, but not equivalent in convenience:

MSP-CDG-ATH
MSP-JFK-ATH

Marketing at the big 3 says that these are both convenient 1-stop schedules. But I am only trying to get a cab in Athens at 3am in one of these scenarios, and I would rather not.

IrishAyes wrote:

It is a sham that AA is using the ghetto bird on DFW-AMS. With the 789s coming, was it really that difficult to send even an old 772 on that route?!

only if the route truly exceeds expectations. 45J on 1-2-1 is a lot of premium seats (and a lot of valuable floor space) to a destination that has been struggling for the longest time (nothing from PMAA side, and only 752 from PHL by PMUS). AA probably thinks there's a sizable void left by KLM.

does Royal Dutch Shell have any offices in Dallas metroplex at all, or are they entirely at Houston ?

at the same time, it's slightly regrettable to see the only long-haul wide body service into DFW that has absolutely no partnership with AA are from LH and EK (even KE has some sort of partnership with AA).

a380787 wrote:

ultra minor typo : the YHZ line probably meant "PHL" not "PHI"

He just miss the capital L vs small l.

This is why airports & code base businesses don't mix capital & small letter to say Terminal L when they mean Terminal I as opposed to Terminal l & terminal i.

braniff2hav wrote:

DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
MIA - HPN goes year round

Deletions:
PHL - HPN ends 12/14/16

HPN being my hometown airport... that's a shame. But most connections can go through DCA, and with ORD now covering most other destinations, PHL becomes unnecessary.

The Westchester county executive is working on getting rid of the cap on pax/hour, we'll see if it goes through but if it does, I could see HPN expanding quite a bit.
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/investi ... /82521212/

My thoughts:

1) Really not seeing the point of DFW-AMS. AMS is not a particularly seasonal destination but youc an pretty much fill anything to Europe during the summer so I suppose it will probably be okay. I wonder if they will upgrade PHL-AMS for S17 with the 763 made available by the PHL-ZRH cancellation. It would make crew scheduling easier...

2) Not sure about DFW-FCO. The local market should be decent but west of the Mississippi to FCO has historically struggled even during the summer because of the backtracking required for most passengers...

3) PHL-ZRH and PHL-BRU are not surprises. Both were heavily dependent upon traffic connecting with SN/LX..

4) PHL-YHZ, AA's Canadian retreat continues. I would not be surprised if if was brought back as summer seasonal like YQB...

5) PHL-HPN, not surprising. No local traffic and most of the PHL connections can be routed over DCA/CLT/MIA/ORD or are such short distances that driving is the better option anyway...

6) ORD-DUS, no one seems to be able to make this route work...

7) JFK-BHX, brexit fallout continues...