hkcanadaexpat
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:23 am

usflyer msp wrote:
I wonder if they will upgrade PHL-AMS for S17 with the 763 made available by the PHL-ZRH cancellation. It would make crew scheduling easier...

Remember that there will be 10 less 763ERS in the AA fleet by the time S17 happens than there is now. So its unfortunately its not a simple one for one swap.
 
klwright69
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:50 am

So every time a route to the UK is cut, I guess it's always because of Brexit. That will always be the reason.
 
a380787
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:17 am

klwright69 wrote:
So every time a route to the UK is cut, I guess it's always because of Brexit. That will always be the reason.


4 "casualties" so far, if we want to attribute them all to Brexit :

- UA cancelling seasonal EWR-NCL (so far keeping service to these 8 airports on the British Isles - LHR MAN BHX GLA EDI BFS DUB SNN; BRS dropped waaaay back in 2010)
- AA cancelling JFK-BHX (only started May 2015)
- BA cancelling 2nd LCY-JFK
- La Compagnie cancelling LTN-EWR (claims to move it to CDG-EWR but I kinda doubt the long-term viability of 2x daily)

so far nothing I recall from DL/VS side ... let's see if they'll join this bandwagon.
 
gkirk
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:46 am

a380787 wrote:
klwright69 wrote:
So every time a route to the UK is cut, I guess it's always because of Brexit. That will always be the reason.


4 "casualties" so far, if we want to attribute them all to Brexit :

- UA cancelling seasonal EWR-NCL (so far keeping service to these 8 airports on the British Isles - LHR MAN BHX GLA EDI BFS DUB SNN; BRS dropped waaaay back in 2010)
- AA cancelling JFK-BHX (only started May 2015)
- BA cancelling 2nd LCY-JFK
- La Compagnie cancelling LTN-EWR (claims to move it to CDG-EWR but I kinda doubt the long-term viability of 2x daily)

so far nothing I recall from DL/VS side ... let's see if they'll join this bandwagon.



NCL wasdropped because ouside of th4 chool holidays, loads were dire. Improving, but still fairly horrific. UA/Star have a miniscule presence at NCL and thus couldn't take enough people away from BA and AF/KL. EK continues to do well to DXB from NCL on the 77W though, so perhaps they have a better business plan? ;)
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:58 am

There's a bit more information released on top of what's already been stated here, those details being:

Seasonal reductions

JFK - Paris, France (CDG) Flight #2: Suspended November 2016 - March 2017; return April - October 2017
JFK - Manchester, United Kingdom (MAN): Suspended January - March 2017; return in April - October 2017
ORD - Paris, France (CDG): Suspended January - March 2017; return April - December 2017
PHL - Frankfurt, Germany (FRA): Suspended November 2016 - March 2017; return in April - October 2017
 
commavia
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:02 am

Noteworthy and interesting indeed that both ORD-CDG and PHL-FRA are going seasonal.
 
acentauri
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:54 am

commavia wrote:
Noteworthy and interesting indeed that both ORD-CDG and PHL-FRA are going seasonal.

Particularly since (as of now at least) CLT-FRA continues year round in 2017. The PHL-FRA seasonal cut won't zero capacity as LH flies the route year round.
 
YQBexYHZBGM
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:24 pm

Yet another disappointing transborder nonstop loss for YHZ, after already having lost ORD, DTW and IAD.

I was under the impression that PHL-YHZ load factors (including the all-important high yield / forward cabin) were acceptable. If anyone who has access to the stats could repost them, they would be interesting to see.

This isn't the first time I've been disappointed by AA's apparent lack of commitment to the YHZ market. MQ launched YHZ-JFK around 2004-2005 on an ERJ135, but I'm not even sure they lasted a full season. Even though DL resumed the JFK route around 2012, it still meant the loss of a carrier (and the simultaneous loss of DL's YHZ-DTW route, which it had inherited from NW).

As for seasonal service, it would seem that US-based market analysts focus primarily on summer leisure travel from the US to Atlantic Canada, while largely ignoring the market for Atlantic Canadians traveling to sun destinations in the winter. In addition, seasonal service does not benefit year round high yield business travel, which YHZ is certainly capable of supporting.

This hits me hard on a personal level, as the Philadelphia / Wilmington area has been my primary destination in recent years. In addition, with the loss of both YHZ-PHL on AA and EWR-BGM on UA, I am left without any viable connections between YHZ and BGM.

-Al
 
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enilria
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:39 pm

Maybe I'm not looking at this the same as others, but it seems like the following is in play:
1) A move toward expanding the core AA hubs at the expense of the US hubs internationally. I would assume the economics of this are that US routes saw their costs go up in the merger and AA routes saw their costs go down.
2) PHL as a gateway to secondary Europe is losing a lot of steam and this may be just a harbinger
3) It doesn't look as much like JFK will gain from PHL losing steam, as much as DFW will, even though it defies logic.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:54 pm

As a former Chicago resident, it's sad to see that for half the year, AA will only connect ORD with two destinations in Europe - London and Manchester. The days of the "GAAteway to the World" operation are definitely long over. On the eve of 9/11 fifteen years ago, AA was serving eleven cities in Europe from Chicago.

As others have said, the current Europe strategy for all US airlines seems to be pack 'em in all summer long and cut to the bone in winter. AA seems to have embraced this strategy fully and more eagerly than Delta or United. Makes sense from a business perspective, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:39 pm

It seems that AA doesn't get much ORD-Europe business traffic outside of the U.K... Only LHR and MAN (less than daily in the winter) are year round now, with several additional leisure destinations (DUB, BCN, CDG, FCO) for the summer.

Interesting that PHL-FRA goes seasonal while PHL-MUC remains... Does Philly have more business ties with Munich than with Frankfurt these days?
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blink182
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:42 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
As a former Chicago resident, it's sad to see that for half the year, AA will only connect ORD with two destinations in Europe - London and Manchester. The days of the "GAAteway to the World" operation are definitely long over. On the eve of 9/11 fifteen years ago, AA was serving eleven cities in Europe from Chicago.

As others have said, the current Europe strategy for all US airlines seems to be pack 'em in all summer long and cut to the bone in winter. AA seems to have embraced this strategy fully and more eagerly than Delta or United. Makes sense from a business perspective, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.


I remember as a kid everything to Europe on AA that wasn't LGW, LHR, FRA, or CDG on AA went through ORD, as evidenced by the lineup of 767s on the K concourse. MIA-MAD was probably the one notable exception.

What does AA plan to do with all of that excess Europe capacity during the Winter? GRU can't absorb the excess capacity that AA used to throw at it whenever they had spare widebodies. 763s and 757s haven't ever been used across the Pacific.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:27 pm

blink182 wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
As a former Chicago resident, it's sad to see that for half the year, AA will only connect ORD with two destinations in Europe - London and Manchester. The days of the "GAAteway to the World" operation are definitely long over. On the eve of 9/11 fifteen years ago, AA was serving eleven cities in Europe from Chicago.

As others have said, the current Europe strategy for all US airlines seems to be pack 'em in all summer long and cut to the bone in winter. AA seems to have embraced this strategy fully and more eagerly than Delta or United. Makes sense from a business perspective, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.


I remember as a kid everything to Europe on AA that wasn't LGW, LHR, FRA, or CDG on AA went through ORD, as evidenced by the lineup of 767s on the K concourse. MIA-MAD was probably the one notable exception.

What does AA plan to do with all of that excess Europe capacity during the Winter? GRU can't absorb the excess capacity that AA used to throw at it whenever they had spare widebodies. 763s and 757s haven't ever been used across the Pacific.


I would imagine they will use the aircraft on Caribbean and Mexico routes and catch up on deferred maintenance during the winter just like US used to do...
 
777PHX
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:11 pm

Also keep in mind there will be a net contraction in the number of aircraft AA has by the end of the year, i.e. more leaving than coming in. Looks like they'll be -6 in widebodies year over year and that's not taking into account the ~14 757s that will also leave the fleet in 2016, that may also have been flying internationally as well.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:50 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
As others have said, the current Europe strategy for all US airlines seems to be pack 'em in all summer long and cut to the bone in winter. AA seems to have embraced this strategy fully and more eagerly than Delta or United.


Oh, DL has been using seasonal adjustments (look for enilria's reports and see how they flex start and end dates) and day-of-week games for several years. If anything, I'd declare AA a model of consistency - until now.
 
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spinkid
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:40 pm

airliner371 wrote:
braniff2hav wrote:
DFW - AMS for May to Sept 2017
MIA - HPN goes year round

Deletions:
PHL - HPN ends 12/14/16

HPN being my hometown airport... that's a shame. But most connections can go through DCA, and with ORD now covering most other destinations, PHL becomes unnecessary.

The Westchester county executive is working on getting rid of the cap on pax/hour, we'll see if it goes through but if it does, I could see HPN expanding quite a bit.
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/investi ... /82521212/



Sad to see PHL go at the expense of MIA, but MIA is a great add, especially in terms of connections to the Caribbean, etc. I doubt Astorino will have much luck. No matter what, people are going to see it as them adding flights there and fight it. The NIMBY's in the area are notorious. I didn't realize the passenger numbers were so far down. The Air Tran exit also led to an increase in fares. I was able to find very cheap flights connecting via ATL on Air Tran. B6 offers connections in MCO and FLL, but they are often poorly timed and quite expensive.

Any idea why Allegiant and Frontier haven't tried to enter HPN? Are fees just too expensive?
 
Philly65
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:06 am

enilria wrote:
Maybe I'm not looking at this the same as others, but it seems like the following is in play:
1) A move toward expanding the core AA hubs at the expense of the US hubs internationally. I would assume the economics of this are that US routes saw their costs go up in the merger and AA routes saw their costs go down.
2) PHL as a gateway to secondary Europe is losing a lot of steam and this may be just a harbinger
3) It doesn't look as much like JFK will gain from PHL losing steam, as much as DFW will, even though it defies logic.


Exactly, so what was the primary reason for the merger again? If AA is just going to favor the legacy AA hubs then don't cry when the Middle East Big3 and Norwegian want more access to the U.S.

How long will the DFW-AMS/FCO routes last? Until the air incentives run out? Would love to see the local demand on those markets....low single digits.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:28 am

enilria wrote:
Maybe I'm not looking at this the same as others, but it seems like the following is in play:
1) A move toward expanding the core AA hubs at the expense of the US hubs internationally. I would assume the economics of this are that US routes saw their costs go up in the merger and AA routes saw their costs go down.
2) PHL as a gateway to secondary Europe is losing a lot of steam and this may be just a harbinger
3) It doesn't look as much like JFK will gain from PHL losing steam, as much as DFW will, even though it defies logic.

I think you might be a little premature on this line of thinking. Maybe not wrong. I do think that the new way of Revenue management that flights that can be seasonal will be and frequencies will vary with the day and season has management of passenger travel patterns are better forecast. Delta also seems to be doing a lot of these kind of seasonal and frequency tactics.
 
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spinkid
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:38 am

HPN-MIA is double daily on an E-175
 
kevintarmac
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:14 am

FSDan wrote:
It seems that AA doesn't get much ORD-Europe business traffic outside of the U.K... Only LHR and MAN (less than daily in the winter) are year round now, with several additional leisure destinations (DUB, BCN, CDG, FCO) for the summer.

But with EI running DUB yearlong as a OW partner the need to run the metal may be overcome by simply throwing an AA code on those flights.

Interesting that PHL-FRA goes seasonal while PHL-MUC remains... Does Philly have more business ties with Munich than with Frankfurt these days?


That's a good question, seems odd but MUC remains an A332 with no seasonal bump. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks around past 2018 when the A330 retire. The birds that can fill that flight will become thin and another more profitable place may be found for that bird.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:29 am

kevintarmac wrote:
FSDan wrote:
It seems that AA doesn't get much ORD-Europe business traffic outside of the U.K... Only LHR and MAN (less than daily in the winter) are year round now, with several additional leisure destinations (DUB, BCN, CDG, FCO) for the summer.

But with EI running DUB yearlong as a OW partner the need to run the metal may be overcome by simply throwing an AA code on those flights.

Interesting that PHL-FRA goes seasonal while PHL-MUC remains... Does Philly have more business ties with Munich than with Frankfurt these days?


That's a good question, seems odd but MUC remains an A332 with no seasonal bump. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks around past 2018 when the A330 retire. The birds that can fill that flight will become thin and another more profitable place may be found for that bird.


AA at least can potentially get some feed from AB @ MUC. At FRA, AA is pretty much on their own...
Maybe PHL-FRA should become PHL-DUS...
 
kevintarmac
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:51 am

usflyer msp wrote:
kevintarmac wrote:
FSDan wrote:
It seems that AA doesn't get much ORD-Europe business traffic outside of the U.K... Only LHR and MAN (less than daily in the winter) are year round now, with several additional leisure destinations (DUB, BCN, CDG, FCO) for the summer.

But with EI running DUB yearlong as a OW partner the need to run the metal may be overcome by simply throwing an AA code on those flights.

Interesting that PHL-FRA goes seasonal while PHL-MUC remains... Does Philly have more business ties with Munich than with Frankfurt these days?


That's a good question, seems odd but MUC remains an A332 with no seasonal bump. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks around past 2018 when the A330 retire. The birds that can fill that flight will become thin and another more profitable place may be found for that bird.


AA at least can potentially get some feed from AB @ MUC. At FRA, AA is pretty much on their own...
Maybe PHL-FRA should become PHL-DUS...


At FRA AA is alone but O&D will deside that. DUS is an AB hub while MUC is just a focus city. I would be put better odds on DUS being kept around or moved to a new AA 767 or even a 787 while MUC gets axed or perhaps an A321LR if AA moves towards the type.
 
SCQ83
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:04 am

TW870 wrote:
DolphinAir747 wrote:
Honestly, I think any US-Europe route is "high dollar" in the summer months. The problem for most airlines is making these routes work in winter, especially from cities which have enough J class demand to require daily, year-round service but where Y is quite empty and cheap for most of the year.


Absolutely. Between strong partner hubs, and the large widebody fleets that can be moved around seasonally, the trend at the U.S. legacies really seems to be going to summer seasonal for most Europe routes, except those to partner hubs and those to key financial and banking cities like ZRH, FRA, or MXP. Seasonal fluctuation has always been a problem for the industry, though. TW had year round service on 747s to ATH, MAD, and FCO for much of the 1980s, but those flights were often extremely empty in the winter and crazy oversold in the summer. DL probably moves as many people to and from ATH each year as TW did, but they fly the route less than half the time and then 10 times a week in the summer.

The question is how not to annoy elites by routing too much winter traffic through partner hubs - like AA will for all 3 of these new summer seasonal Europe flights. Going to southern Europe in the off season sucks, because you have the awful 6am connection through the partner hub, and then the extremely early departure on the way home to make the mid-morning partner hub connection. I always try to wait to go to europe until at least March when some of the shoulder season non stops come back - because the schedules are so much more convenient.


I think there is an obvious trend in those routes, and other new TATL routes such as Norwegian from BCN.

- American tourism is exploding to some areas in Europe. Spain has had double digit growth for a few years (last year was about +22%). That probably has a lot to do with a number of reasons, such as EUR-USD exchange, lower oil prices, perceived risks in more areas of Europe / the world and finally Americans becoming more global and interest to travel abroad.

- Within Europe, it is obvious that due to recent issues some cities have been negatively impacted. Paris and Brussels have had large tourist drops (i.e. Japanese tourism is 50% down in Paris this year; that is massive). Southern Europe is the most benefited area, but also Scandinavia (so probably Norwegian, Icelandair, WOW and SAS benefit from this in their large expansion in North America).

- US and main core EU economies are probably "cooling down"

So looking at those routes, there is a clear trend. Routes for US passengers to leisure European destinations (Barcelona, Rome; even Amsterdam would be here in my opinion) are up. What is cancelled are destinations that depend more on business, local European traffic to the US (because they are not major leisure cities for Americans) such as Dusseldorf and Birmingham and/or have been affected by terrorism (Brussels).
 
blueflyer
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:51 am

Is BRU indeed cancelled, or is it the expected end of seasonal service until next summer?
https://www.aa.com/content/images/uk/PD ... ervice.pdf

(yes, I know things can, and do, change - just trying to get some clarity)
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by738
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:49 pm

ive a feeling seasonal GLA-PHL is precarious and expected to see it reduced or culled in this list. Figures static although can be higher than AA EDI-JFK. Once DL starts GLA-JFK will be interesting to see how that changes things.
 
cgnnrw
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:19 pm

"Maybe PHL-FRA should become PHL-DUS..."

That would be toooo good to be true. Should that ever happen (which it probably won't) I'd be one of the happiest members on a.net.
A330 man.
 
bmacleod
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:49 pm

YQBexYHZBGM wrote:
Yet another disappointing transborder nonstop loss for YHZ, after already having lost ORD, DTW and IAD.

I was under the impression that PHL-YHZ load factors (including the all-important high yield / forward cabin) were acceptable. If anyone who has access to the stats could repost them, they would be interesting to see.

-Al


Hopefully this cancellation is just temporary and AA will return to YHZ within 2-5 years.

Also very shocked to see AA pull out of YYC....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_destinations
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
nyd686
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:18 pm

bmacleod wrote:
YQBexYHZBGM wrote:
Yet another disappointing transborder nonstop loss for YHZ, after already having lost ORD, DTW and IAD.

I was under the impression that PHL-YHZ load factors (including the all-important high yield / forward cabin) were acceptable. If anyone who has access to the stats could repost them, they would be interesting to see.

-Al


Hopefully this cancellation is just temporary and AA will return to YHZ within 2-5 years.

Also very shocked to see AA pull out of YYC....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_destinations


DFW-YYC will switch to American Eagle in early October; AA is not closing YYC.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:01 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
phluser wrote:
HPN-PHL is still bookable. But, if it goes, it makes sense, as AA makes way for HPN-MIA, especially as HPN is a slot airport.

B6 must be printing money on it's HPN-Florida service, with no direct competitor, after AirTran (Southwest) ended service. I wonder if AA would ever dare to add a route like HPN-MCO to complement HPN-MIA? AA has very few non hub touching routes unlike DL, And, if I recall, those non hub routes touch BOS and are inherited routes from US (e.g. MDT-BOS).


Every non-hub (counting LGA and JFK as a hub) route is PMUS except FLL-PAP and MID-PEI.


This makes me think. What will happen to the BOS-CDG route? Was BOS-CDG ever a PMUS route? I believe BOS was at one point a focus city for US but only domestically. I find it interesting that AA has a BOS-CDG route, given that neither CDG nor BOS is a hub for them. Was BOS ever a focus city for AA? If it was Delta that had a BOS-CDG flight on its own metal then I wouldn't be surprised because CDG is a major Sky Team hub, that I would find normal.
BOS-LHR on AA's metal, in addition to BA, I wouldn't be surprised either because LHR is major One World hub.
Ben Soriano
 
Sightseer
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:59 pm

American 767 wrote:
If it was Delta that had a BOS-CDG flight on its own metal then I wouldn't be surprised because CDG is a major Sky Team hub


Just FYI, DL 118 BOS-CDG is scheduled to take off at 7:20 local time this evening.
 
globalcabotage
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:46 pm

AA is putting resources where they think they will make money. What aircraft will fly ORD-BCN? Also heard ORD-DUB may go year round next year (IAG thing).

Hope the DFW routes do well. Was expecting DFW-BCN before the other new routes.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:23 pm

Sightseer wrote:
American 767 wrote:
If it was Delta that had a BOS-CDG flight on its own metal then I wouldn't be surprised because CDG is a major Sky Team hub


Just FYI, DL 118 BOS-CDG is scheduled to take off at 7:20 local time this evening.


Thanks for bringing that up. I didn't know Delta had a flight BOS-CDG on its own metal. I knew Air France did. Now I'm learning something. This makes me think of one reason American added a BOS-CDG flight: to compete against Delta on that route. There could be others but that's one reason I'm thinking. American wants to maintain CDG as an important destination in Europe, I mean a point in Europe reachable with several nonstop flights on AA's metal from various points in the United States.
Ben Soriano
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:44 pm

American 767 wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
American 767 wrote:
If it was Delta that had a BOS-CDG flight on its own metal then I wouldn't be surprised because CDG is a major Sky Team hub


Just FYI, DL 118 BOS-CDG is scheduled to take off at 7:20 local time this evening.


Thanks for bringing that up. I didn't know Delta had a flight BOS-CDG on its own metal. I knew Air France did. Now I'm learning something. This makes me think of one reason American added a BOS-CDG flight: to compete against Delta on that route. There could be others but that's one reason I'm thinking. American wants to maintain CDG as an important destination in Europe, I mean a point in Europe reachable with several nonstop flights on AA's metal from various points in the United States.[/quote

AA has flown Boston-Paris for more than 25 years. Delta for only about 7-8.
a.
 
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N717TW
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Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:51 am

American 767 wrote:
This makes me think. What will happen to the BOS-CDG route? Was BOS-CDG ever a PMUS route? I believe BOS was at one point a focus city for US but only domestically. I find it interesting that AA has a BOS-CDG route, given that neither CDG nor BOS is a hub for them. Was BOS ever a focus city for AA? If it was Delta that had a BOS-CDG flight on its own metal then I wouldn't be surprised because CDG is a major Sky Team hub, that I would find normal.
BOS-LHR on AA's metal, in addition to BA, I wouldn't be surprised either because LHR is major One World hub.


AA started BOS-CDG in 1996 (I believe/remember) just as they were building up a significant base in Boston after buying Business Express. AA has long been a major player in BOS but they started to add a number of smaller regional markets in the mid-90s with DCA, YYZ, etc. At the time CDG was a pretty much a TWA monopoly (with AF on/off with service in the 90s) and AA with a strong BOS-LHR franchise and good presence on the CDG side saw an opportunity to poach business from a very weak TWA. Unsurprisingly, TW folded. Incidentally, BOS-CDG was TW's last TATL route that didn't touch JFK or STL.

DL hasn't run BOS-CDG very long and its only been in the last two years that the route has run (mostly) year-round. Before that it was a seasonal 3d frequency to AF's two other flights. Right now, I guess it downgrades to 4x week and from a 764 to 763 in the winter. Previously it would disappear or turn to a 752 in the winter.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:51 am

N717TW wrote:
American 767 wrote:
This makes me think. What will happen to the BOS-CDG route? Was BOS-CDG ever a PMUS route? I believe BOS was at one point a focus city for US but only domestically. I find it interesting that AA has a BOS-CDG route, given that neither CDG nor BOS is a hub for them. Was BOS ever a focus city for AA? If it was Delta that had a BOS-CDG flight on its own metal then I wouldn't be surprised because CDG is a major Sky Team hub, that I would find normal.
BOS-LHR on AA's metal, in addition to BA, I wouldn't be surprised either because LHR is major One World hub.


AA started BOS-CDG in 1996 (I believe/remember) just as they were building up a significant base in Boston after buying Business Express. AA has long been a major player in BOS but they started to add a number of smaller regional markets in the mid-90s with DCA, YYZ, etc. At the time CDG was a pretty much a TWA monopoly (with AF on/off with service in the 90s) and AA with a strong BOS-LHR franchise and good presence on the CDG side saw an opportunity to poach business from a very weak TWA. Unsurprisingly, TW folded. Incidentally, BOS-CDG was TW's last TATL route that didn't touch JFK or STL.

DL hasn't run BOS-CDG very long and its only been in the last two years that the route has run (mostly) year-round. Before that it was a seasonal 3d frequency to AF's two other flights. Right now, I guess it downgrades to 4x week and from a 764 to 763 in the winter. Previously it would disappear or turn to a 752 in the winter.


You are correct re: AA BOS-CDG launch timing...

http://docketsinfo.dot.gov/general/orde ... 960431.pdf
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:50 am

globalcabotage wrote:
What aircraft will fly ORD-BCN?


Flights were loaded today. As of now, ORD-BCN is - interestingly - showing as a 788 for next summer.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2701
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:17 pm

Interesting thread. It is fallacy to think that since A comes before B, then A automatically caused B. It has been observed that EWR-NCL was a dud before Brexit. Just because the Brexit vote took place before several routes got canned, doesn't mean the first caused the second. We need more information.

Spain, Italy, and Greece have seen more service from US airlines as of late. Barring an unforeseen event these routes should be winners. I am surprised UA hasn't already added ORD to BCN as well.

Someone in this thread made an interesting observation. One of the problems with TW and PA were that they relied on 747's, which are great to Europe in summer but terrible to Europe in the winter. That's one reason why no US carrier wants the A380. It's a lot of seats to fill on a year round basis.
 
flybhx764
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:48 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:31 pm

Sad to see AA go. They done so well on the BHX- ORD route many years go. United is very loyal to BHX from EWR. However it looks like the AA route is being replacement with USA another carrier.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:44 pm

Philly65 wrote:
enilria wrote:

How long will the DFW-AMS/FCO routes last? Until the air incentives run out? Would love to see the local demand on those markets....low single digits.


Really? You think low single digits? You obviously don't have much of a grasp on the DFW market and therefore shouldn't make such statements. The DFW haterade is strong lately. It's okay. The DFW population and economy is laughing all the way to the bank. :)
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3480
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:38 pm

mfe777 wrote:
Philly65 wrote:
enilria wrote:

How long will the DFW-AMS/FCO routes last? Until the air incentives run out? Would love to see the local demand on those markets....low single digits.


Really? You think low single digits? You obviously don't have much of a grasp on the DFW market and therefore shouldn't make such statements. The DFW haterade is strong lately. It's okay. The DFW population and economy is laughing all the way to the bank. :)


I don't think anyone is hating on DFW. DFW is a strong market however these routes are a bit suspect. Historically, seasonal European routes have not done well from cities west of the Mississippi because 70% of the demand comes from east of the Mississippi. Personally, I think FCO will do fine thanks to all the Xtians and cruisers but AMS will be a dud (canals, weed and hookers oh my). I would never fly one of AA's clapped out 763's on such a long segment...
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:18 am

It'll be interesting to see how well AA can do on DFW-AMS, since KLM served it for years before giving up on it.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:35 am

klwright69 wrote:
Spain, Italy, and Greece have seen more service from US airlines as of late. Barring an unforeseen event these routes should be winners. I am surprised UA hasn't already added ORD to BCN as well.


You cannot compare AA's position in Spain to UA's.

AA is part of the TATL JV and which means American has by far the "best" position of American carriers in Spain. They will also be able to connect with Vueling's network at BCN.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:19 am

usflyer msp wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
Philly65 wrote:


Really? You think low single digits? You obviously don't have much of a grasp on the DFW market and therefore shouldn't make such statements. The DFW haterade is strong lately. It's okay. The DFW population and economy is laughing all the way to the bank. :)


I don't think anyone is hating on DFW. DFW is a strong market however these routes are a bit suspect. Historically, seasonal European routes have not done well from cities west of the Mississippi because 70% of the demand comes from east of the Mississippi. Personally, I think FCO will do fine thanks to all the Xtians and cruisers but AMS will be a dud (canals, weed and hookers oh my). I would never fly one of AA's clapped out 763's on such a long segment...


I already explained... bear with me because I actually try to be quiet when I don't have knowledge to contribute.

BCN and FCO are strong seasonal routes for US tourists. That's a special type of route and it makes big money. Continued seasonals by AA and DL confirm it.

Most USA origin cities do not have nonstop to Rome or BCN (or VCE). Its 1-stops from most cities. Meaning 1-stops still get top fares. This means that summer seasonal to Europe have special economics. They do not need to have business clients. They do not need winter options (nobody goes there in winter anyway). This is a targeted leisure operation that is guaranteed to make money. That's why they do it.

The US flights from PHL/CLT were successful for years. The people involved with that are running AA's decisions now. JFK also has these. What more can I say... nothing, because that's all there is. AA has perfect information on the routes. They can take more volume... exactly why DL put an FCO seasonal at MSP, for another example.

AMS, different type of market. More of a business market, more year round. I don't know what they have in mind there.
 
Lentini2001
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:53 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:16 pm

Why do people keep blaming brexit for the JFK-BHX route, it has nothing to do with it whatsoever seeing as

Loads have been rubbish since it started

Last time I looked, the UK was and still is firmly attached to Europe, and will be for at least the next two years. Pull the route in two years time if that was the reason (which it isn't)

More scare mongering from the remain camp who just deal in scare mongering and cannot come up with any good reasons why we should remain other than that we have to remain. Or they just trot out rubbish like this or trade insults.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3480
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:47 pm

Flighty wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
mfe777 wrote:

Really? You think low single digits? You obviously don't have much of a grasp on the DFW market and therefore shouldn't make such statements. The DFW haterade is strong lately. It's okay. The DFW population and economy is laughing all the way to the bank. :)


I don't think anyone is hating on DFW. DFW is a strong market however these routes are a bit suspect. Historically, seasonal European routes have not done well from cities west of the Mississippi because 70% of the demand comes from east of the Mississippi. Personally, I think FCO will do fine thanks to all the Xtians and cruisers but AMS will be a dud (canals, weed and hookers oh my). I would never fly one of AA's clapped out 763's on such a long segment...


I already explained... bear with me because I actually try to be quiet when I don't have knowledge to contribute.

BCN and FCO are strong seasonal routes for US tourists. That's a special type of route and it makes big money. Continued seasonals by AA and DL confirm it.

Most USA origin cities do not have nonstop to Rome or BCN (or VCE). Its 1-stops from most cities. Meaning 1-stops still get top fares. This means that summer seasonal to Europe have special economics. They do not need to have business clients. They do not need winter options (nobody goes there in winter anyway). This is a targeted leisure operation that is guaranteed to make money. That's why they do it.

The US flights from PHL/CLT were successful for years. The people involved with that are running AA's decisions now. JFK also has these. What more can I say... nothing, because that's all there is. AA has perfect information on the routes. They can take more volume... exactly why DL put an FCO seasonal at MSP, for another example.

AMS, different type of market. More of a business market, more year round. I don't know what they have in mind there.


I don't see where I disagreed with that...
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2452
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:59 pm

AA retrenchment in Canada has been rather staggering. It's like they're giving up. YHZ will now only be left with year-round daily transborder service to BOS on AC & WS and EWR on UA, plus a weekly 737 to MCO on WS. As was previously said, it'll be interesting to see whether YHZ goes seasonal like YQB has, especially given that YHZ's traffic experiences a huge seasonal jump in traffic during Jun-Sep vs. the rest of the year.

I'm always amazed that for years now the US3 basically have zero advertising in Canada.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5165
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:27 pm

First, I'm surprised that AA and other U.S. carriers are dialing down service to YHZ. Yes, Nova Scotia is a popular tourist destination, but it is also the business hub of the Maritimes. YHZ is the connecting hub for the Maritimes.

My wife worked for a company called Convergys, and one of its lines of business was operating call centers for all sort of customers. Back in the early 2000s, Convergys and its competitors were expanding call center operations in Nova Scotia, because people were not happy with the service from call centers in India, the Philippines, and the Caribbean. At the time, Convergys was headquarted in Cincinnati, and DL was the preferred carrier. There was a rumor that Convergys was pushing DL to start CVG-YHZ, because of the number of executives and managers flying between Cinci and Halifax.

I also don't believe that every reduction in service between the U.S. and the U.K. is due to Brexit. Despite the U.K. voting to leave the EU, the UK's formal notice hasn't been made. No one seems to know when the formal notice will be made, or how long it will take for the UK to fully leave the EU, as well as the relationship the exists afterward. Let's not forget that the UK is home to a number of global corporations, from BP to Barclay's. There have been signs pointing to a downturn in the British economy

On the other hand, the Dollar is still exceptionally strong against the Pound. The UK is being pushed as a travel destination, because the cost of visiting is much cheaper.

What is a bit puzzling is the reduction of European destinations from PHL. As the merger was proceeding, it was speculated that JFK was going to focus on O&D traffic for New York, as well as connections from cities beyond the LGA perimeter, because of the number of slots AA had. PHL was going to have a significant number of European departures, because it had far more domestic connecting traffic.
 
S75752
Posts: 1467
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:39 pm

DFW - FCO with a 777... Interesting.

I wonder how long it will last until it gets dinged to a 788, or axed.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:51 pm

The sky is not falling in PHL.

Even with the reductions, PHL will still see service to:

LHR (year round)
MAN (year round)
CDG (year round)
MAD (year round)
AMS (year round)
MUC (year round)
DUB (year round)
FCO (year round)
LIS (seasonal)
ATH (seasonal)
BCN (seasonal)
FRA (seasonal)
GLA (seasonal)
SNN (seasonal)
VCE (seasonal)

It is unfortunate that PHL has lost BRU, TLV and ZRH. Over the years, it has also lost BHX, EDI, ARN, OSL, MXP over the years.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: AA new routes and cancellations announced

Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:54 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
The sky is not falling in PHL.

Even with the reductions, PHL will still see service to:

LHR (year round)
MAN (year round)
CDG (year round)
MAD (year round)
AMS (year round)
MUC (year round)
DUB (year round)
FCO (year round)
LIS (seasonal)
ATH (seasonal)
BCN (seasonal)
FRA (seasonal)
GLA (seasonal)
SNN (seasonal)
VCE (seasonal)

It is unfortunate that PHL has lost BRU, TLV and ZRH. Over the years, it has also lost BHX, EDI, ARN, OSL, MXP over the years.


Exactly. It's telling - and, I'm quite sure, not at all coincidental - that the two Europe routes AA is now ending out of PHL are both to Star hubs where USAirways had ample connecting feed and AA now has very little. On top of that, the impact on BRU from the terrorist attacks, and resulting fallout on travel demand, particularly for what is now the weakest U.S. carrier in Belgium, is obvious and self-evident. I must admit that I am surprised to see FRA not operating this winter, even with just sub-daily frequency, but still I don't think these changes points to any broader weakness in PHL as a gateway overall.

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