Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jownes
Topic Author
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:57 am

Lufthansa could take over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:12 am

Lufthansa is going to take over 1/3 or in total numbers 100 of the AirBerlin flights (mainly reginal ones)
Therfore Lufthansa wet-leases 40 AirBerlin airplanes and cooperates with Etihad

SZ assumes that LH wants to prevent that Ryanair and Easyjet expand in Germany.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/l ... -1.3154894 (in German)
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Not confirmed yet
 
reifel
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:53 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:56 am

This is very interesting.
It was already in the news a few weeks ago, but now it seems that all parties have agreed to the deal and the board will need to formally accept it in September..
The planes that are wet leased are those that are not flying to Düsseldorf and Berlin and Lufthansa will use them to boost the Eurowings capacity, and probaly change routes and schedules of these planes to some extend too to fit their network.

airberln receives guaranteed revenue for these planes, which are taken off routes that usually were not earning any money with airberlin.

I am very curious to see how the cooperation with Eithad will look like from a network point of view. I can't really believe Lufthansa doing extensive code share with Etihad, but let's see...
 
pompos
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:40 am

wow... does anyone have a list of the routes Lufthansa is taking over? And if there is an overlap with existing Lufthansa group routes?
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:01 am

Eurowings flying long haul, and Air Berlin flying short haul. If they shutter their cargo division this could be the future of LH, an airline flown by contractors.
 
User avatar
RJ321
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:57 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:21 am

b747400erf wrote:
Eurowings flying long haul, and Air Berlin flying short haul. If they shutter their cargo division this could be the future of LH, an airline flown by contractors.

And do not forget Germanwings, which makes up a good size of LH's short haul low cost operations.

Is the lease only for the winter ?
 
User avatar
Aquila3
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:18 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:26 am

I wonder if Antitrust an EU Regulators have anything to say.
Ops, I forgot, this is a German Company with German Government capital.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9628
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:28 am

Huge mistake. Those flights do not make money, they will not make money as a wet lease either. LH should have tried to get DE back from Thomas Cook. They are operating well, they share a common history and are fully LH compatible when it comes to work ethic and such things. AB is not.
 
duboka
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:07 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:49 am

seahawk wrote:
Huge mistake. Those flights do not make money, they will not make money as a wet lease either. LH should have tried to get DE back from Thomas Cook. They are operating well, they share a common history and are fully LH compatible when it comes to work ethic and such things. AB is not.



These are the only routes on the AB network, which is making a profit. (at least people are telling us that...)
And there is another big advantage: If AB goes bankrupt, EZ and RY will take AB place. And this means a much bigger competition, than it is currently...
 
GianiDC
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:01 pm

I understand that in the mid- to long run these newly acquired routes will be adopted into EW. If EW has lower operating costs than AB, which it should, they can be successful.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19977
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:50 pm

Wow...

This implies all parties accept airberlin is done. A few routes are a business deal, this many undermines the network and insures AirBerlin is going to have too much debt to revenue.

FR, Wizzair, and U2 just missed an opportunity. Which is the point...

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:53 pm

I think it is also interesting that they mention a cooperation with EY, even if the range of the cooperation is not clear yet.

Another source in German:

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/u ... 28972.html
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3366
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:55 pm

What will happen to Niki then? Will all their flights from VIE (except DUS and TXL) become EW flights?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Natflyer
Posts: 642
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:10 pm

So LH is acquiring (for EW) what is likely work. The rest of AB will probably fade away pretty soon.
 
AirbusOnly
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:06 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:46 pm

Good and bad news at same time...wet lease? Hope so much they don't lease the disastrous service of AB too... me and my wife swored each other not to fly AB any more in our life after so much bad experiences with this LCC ...ok that this Airline will be history soon...praise the Lord!
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:20 pm

When are they finally going to pull the plug on Air Berlin? They seem very dysfunctional and lacking direction.
 
spacecookie
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:23 pm

The beginning of the end
 
Kilopond
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:19 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Wow...

This implies all parties accept airberlin is done....


Exactly! Reportedly, this very unusual step was taken just in order to prevent the imminent uncontrolled collapse of Air Berlin. Although the scenario is quite differnt, it still somewhat resembles the take-over of PA's hubs at London, Tokyo and Frankfurt by the competirors.

lightsaber wrote:
FR, Wizzair, and U2 just missed an opportunity. Which is the point...[...]


As this deal effects a lot of markets (even world-wide to a certain extent) it is much too early to assume that they could get away with it sompletely unpunished. I would expect some competition watchdogs to order the new AB/LH cronies to free up some rush hour slots here and there.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:37 pm

I still think DE makes the most sense, but I do feel that this deal with AB can be part of the strategy. At once, they gain insight to what routes being flown by AB are promising. At the same time, they can exert pressure in the negotiations with DE, since LH can show its appetite for the leisure market. It would be like "you can either join me or fight me".
This deal with AB will be very likely temporary. If they do take over Condor, they can just terminate the deal with AB when the EC starts their usual threats.
Nevertheless, there is still a possibility that this move is seen as a sign at Aldergate that Condor should immediately be sold, putting a stop to the threat of an instantly enlarged Eurowings without themselves.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:53 am

C010T3 wrote:
I still think DE makes the most sense, but I do feel that this deal with AB can be part of the strategy. At once, they gain insight to what routes being flown by AB are promising. At the same time, they can exert pressure in the negotiations with DE, since LH can show its appetite for the leisure market. It would be like "you can either join me or fight me".
This deal with AB will be very likely temporary. If they do take over Condor, they can just terminate the deal with AB when the EC starts their usual threats.
Nevertheless, there is still a possibility that this move is seen as a sign at Aldergate that Condor should immediately be sold, putting a stop to the threat of an instantly enlarged Eurowings without themselves.


I thinl EW would agree with you. On Thursday there was an article in German newspapper FAZ about faster expansion of EW and they also mentioned that they would be happy to get DE, but Thomas Cook Group seems not to be interested.

Here is also a link on that topic, again in German:

http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/handel/e ... 13560.html
 
reifel
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:53 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:04 am

The article also suggests that EW will just operated the routes that AB used to operate. This was also suggested back then when LH gave up all regional routes not flying to FRA or MUC to EW, but eventually quite a few were cut and schedule changes made.

I am pretty sure this is rather taking over PLANES and potentially interesting routes, but that quite a few routes that AB used will not be served by the EW planes operated by AB and even if then with completely other frequencies or schedule.

In short:
-For Airberlin: Instead of flying routes that are non profitable, they just charter out planes to EW and get a fix sum for this, no matter if EW fills them or not
-For EW: They get more planes and slots and possible routes from one day to the other, but could also decide to put them on other toutes which make more sense for them.

Also, I am pretty sure ths may concern Niki, too, as EW is keen to enlarge their hub in VIE, and also Brussels short haul operation will most likeley be rebranded in EW, too, making EW a much bigger airline overnight.

AB themselves has announced to extend their North America network recently and will be able to concentrate on these routes as well as feeder and some long haul touristic routes. They might still also use their planes for touroperator charters to typical european holiday destinations, which I presume are earning money.

I am not convinced that this can save AB but is a good step for them and makes sense. I also don't think the authorities have much issue with this, there is still plenty of competition within Germany and Europe, or room for competition if i.e. Rynair or Easyjet want to start new routes. They might need to give away a few routes or slots here and there, but they will not cancel the whole deal. I also don't believe the government is keen to save AB, an airline that , besides the poor staff of course, realistically no one needs and will be served by other low costs as soon as they disappear.
 
Joost
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:14 am

Aquila3 wrote:
I wonder if Antitrust an EU Regulators have anything to say.
Ops, I forgot, this is a German Company with German Government capital.


Typically, regulators - both in the EU as in the US - look at dominance on specific routes only and sometimes airport slots. They don't usually consider market or network dominance as a whole.

When BA bought BMI, they were required by the European Commission to give up LHR slots for specific routes (ABZ, EDI, NCE, CAI, RUH, MOW), but were not restricted in LHR dominance as a whole.
When BA/AA/IB got TATL antitrust, they were required to give up LHR slots to BOS, JFK and MIA (which were taken by Delta but so far without much success). ( http://www.acl-uk.org/latestNews.aspx?id=183 )

When LH bought LX, they were required to give up slots on various airports. Shortly after, AB started FRA-ZRH but this didn't last long. ( https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ts-200281/ )

Now when LH takes over the non-TXL/DUS part of the network, this will lead to dominance at HAM, MUC, STR and ZRH for LH/EW/LX. I fully expect that they will be required to give up slots on these airports and to explicitely reduce the total number of flights on core routes like HAM-STR and HAM-MUC. Prime contenders will be U2, FR, HV and DY.

seahawk wrote:
Huge mistake. Those flights do not make money, they will not make money as a wet lease either.


They simply take away a competitor. Expect frequency reductions, alignments with EW, redeployments of capacity and rising fares withitn 12 months, except when U2/FR/HV/DY will be able to respond quickly.
 
spacecookie
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:17 am

Its hard for me to see why this treat has so little interaction on this forum.

One of the biggest LCC of the German market is dies.
And lh one of the airlines with most history will get a stronger opposition in the market
 
Kilopond
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:46 am

jetliners wrote:
Not a good sign for Airberlin, becasue Airberline has been better than LH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6nKvOdM9WM


You're just kidding! :D

Anyway, there is still some truth in that joke. When British Airways took control over Delta Air (IATA code DI, not to be confused with Delta Air Lines!) they re-labeled it "Deutsche BA" and transformed it into a top-notch carrier. After many ups and downs, DI was finally acquired by Air Berlin. At that time it had become a locust ;) carrier doing business as "dba".

Using a search engine I found this pic of one of AB's predecessors on the site airlines-airliners.de (not a competitor of airliners.net):

Image
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1458
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:59 am

spacecookie wrote:
Its hard for me to see why this treat has so little interaction on this forum.

One of the biggest LCC of the German market is dies.
And lh one of the airlines with most history will get a stronger opposition in the market


AB was and is not a LCC but was a classic charter tourist airline and today is a mix of everything. This mix and the point that since they gave up their sole tourist niche, they cant find their right place.
Instead of running their operations through just one hub, they fly from MUC,TXL and DUS which increase cost and is just inefficient. The same goes for the high leasing prices of airplanes etc.
The only reasonable cost might be the cost of employees, but what it brings them if they shuttle daily a bunch of crew between DUS and TXL etc.

They never had the balls to just clean up their messy network. It would mean hard cuts on some profitable routes, but they would benefit from a much better structurized network.

Now its over.

About the stronger competition we will see. Ryanair will expand in Germany along with Transavia and Easyjet, because their business model is simple and understandable even for a child. Lufthansa and Air Berlin are strong in creating complicated structures which will eventually cost them more than to do something fresh from the start.
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:41 am

Joost wrote:
Aquila3 wrote:
I wonder if Antitrust an EU Regulators have anything to say.
When BA bought BMI, they were required by the European Commission to give up LHR slots for specific routes (ABZ, EDI, NCE, CAI, RUH, MOW), but were not restricted in LHR dominance as a whole.


That's because British Airways is not so dominant at LHR. If don't believe they hold more than 50% of the slots at LHR. If they do now, it's only after the BMI acquisition, but it is still does not compare to KL, AF and LH at their home airports.
 
spacecookie
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:56 am

Delta777Jet wrote:
spacecookie wrote:
Its hard for me to see why this treat has so little interaction on this forum.

One of the biggest LCC of the German market is dies.
And lh one of the airlines with most history will get a stronger opposition in the market


AB was and is not a LCC but was a classic charter tourist airline and today is a mix of everything. This mix and the point that since they gave up their sole tourist niche, they cant find their right place.
Instead of running their operations through just one hub, they fly from MUC,TXL and DUS which increase cost and is just inefficient. The same goes for the high leasing prices of airplanes etc.
The only reasonable cost might be the cost of employees, but what it brings them if they shuttle daily a bunch of crew between DUS and TXL etc.

They never had the balls to just clean up their messy network. It would mean hard cuts on some profitable routes, but they would benefit from a much better structurized network.

Now its over.

About the stronger competition we will see. Ryanair will expand in Germany along with Transavia and Easyjet, because their business model is simple and understandable even for a child. Lufthansa and Air Berlin are strong in creating complicated structures which will eventually cost them more than to do something fresh from the start.


In ab
You have to pucharse
Your seat
Your bag
And now the drinks

i don't know what's the difference between that and a lcc then.
I don't think that routes bring them down
Bad choices did
Buying planes from ltu
Tuifly agreement
Spanish nonsense expansion (high cost to train the crew to know a little bit Spanish)

Swap to Airbus
Etc etc etc etc
Burning money like no tomorrow.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9628
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:08 pm

Joost wrote:
Aquila3 wrote:
They simply take away a competitor. Expect frequency reductions, alignments with EW, redeployments of capacity and rising fares withitn 12 months, except when U2/FR/HV/DY will be able to respond quickly.


It is a wet lease and AB should get a payment that covers their costs (or at least close to it). Now if AB fails to make money on those routes with a full schedule, I fail to see how LH will not burn money when reducing the flying of the wet leased planes.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4855
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:40 pm

Is this actually confirmed by AB or LH?
 
superjeff
Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:04 pm

Delta777Jet wrote:
spacecookie wrote:
Its hard for me to see why this treat has so little interaction on this forum.

One of the biggest LCC of the German market is dies.
And lh one of the airlines with most history will get a stronger opposition in the market


AB was and is not a LCC but was a classic charter tourist airline and today is a mix of everything. This mix and the point that since they gave up their sole tourist niche, they cant find their right place.
Instead of running their operations through just one hub, they fly from MUC,TXL and DUS which increase cost and is just inefficient. The same goes for the high leasing prices of airplanes etc.
The only reasonable cost might be the cost of employees, but what it brings them if they shuttle daily a bunch of crew between DUS and TXL etc.

They never had the balls to just clean up their messy network. It would mean hard cuts on some profitable routes, but they would benefit from a much better structurized network.

Now its over.

About the stronger competition we will see. Ryanair will expand in Germany along with Transavia and Easyjet, because their business model is simple and understandable even for a child. Lufthansa and Air Berlin are strong in creating complicated structures which will eventually cost them more than to do something fresh from the start.



I think AB has been counting on the new BER as their savior. If and when the new Berlin airport hopefully opens, they will have a lot of space available for gates, slots, etc. and a potential hub to rival Lufthansa's FRA operation. Unfortunately, the massive issues at BER have hurt them massively and they may not be able to hold out long enough for BER to open. If they make it, I can see the operation changing to something more along the likes of a Lufthansa full service type operation, because they will be going after business rather than leisure travelers, and will have the product to match it, with hubs at BER and DUS. But, as everybody here would likely agree, they may not have the time left to pull it off.
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 544
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:37 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Is this actually confirmed by AB or LH?


No. It is a proposal that will require board approval.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:41 pm

superjeff wrote:
Delta777Jet wrote:
spacecookie wrote:
Its hard for me to see why this treat has so little interaction on this forum.

One of the biggest LCC of the German market is dies.
And lh one of the airlines with most history will get a stronger opposition in the market


AB was and is not a LCC but was a classic charter tourist airline and today is a mix of everything. This mix and the point that since they gave up their sole tourist niche, they cant find their right place.
Instead of running their operations through just one hub, they fly from MUC,TXL and DUS which increase cost and is just inefficient. The same goes for the high leasing prices of airplanes etc.
The only reasonable cost might be the cost of employees, but what it brings them if they shuttle daily a bunch of crew between DUS and TXL etc.

They never had the balls to just clean up their messy network. It would mean hard cuts on some profitable routes, but they would benefit from a much better structurized network.

Now its over.

About the stronger competition we will see. Ryanair will expand in Germany along with Transavia and Easyjet, because their business model is simple and understandable even for a child. Lufthansa and Air Berlin are strong in creating complicated structures which will eventually cost them more than to do something fresh from the start.



I think AB has been counting on the new BER as their savior. If and when the new Berlin airport hopefully opens, they will have a lot of space available for gates, slots, etc. and a potential hub to rival Lufthansa's FRA operation. Unfortunately, the massive issues at BER have hurt them massively and they may not be able to hold out long enough for BER to open. If they make it, I can see the operation changing to something more along the likes of a Lufthansa full service type operation, because they will be going after business rather than leisure travelers, and will have the product to match it, with hubs at BER and DUS. But, as everybody here would likely agree, they may not have the time left to pull it off.


I tend to disagree. You do not only need a hub to get your business running. They could have done that with DUS already, you also need a clear business model and they did not change their business model back in 2012 before the BER delay was announced. So why do you expect a change now?

Another reason why I do not consider Berlin as a good location for a hub, at least when focusing on business travellers, is there are not so many business traveller travelling to Berlin due to the structure of the city. It is simply not as important at DUS, MUC or FRA. Its low yield tourist destination. Of course the city is hyping the IT start ups, but its far from being like SFO.
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:11 pm

How will this work with competing code-share and alliance agreements between AB and AA/IAG/OW and LH/STAR?
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:24 pm

Italianflyer wrote:
How will this work with competing code-share and alliance agreements between AB and AA/IAG/OW and LH/STAR?


I am not an expert here, but I expect the following: These fleets will be operated on behalf of EW by AB, so they would cary a EW flightnumber and when booking for example the flight you would see operated by AB.

So OW is out and Star members are already having limited codeshare agreements only with EW. I guess same applies for their frequent fliers making miles when flying on EW flights.
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarification
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:47 pm

What is the long term play for LH at Berlin (either the old or the new airports?) Is the intent to establish a third "hub" of sorts there? I don't mean anything that has to look like MUC or FRA.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Lufthansa takes over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:57 pm

tlecam wrote:
What is the long term play for LH at Berlin (either the old or the new airports?) Is the intent to establish a third "hub" of sorts there? I don't mean anything that has to look like MUC or FRA.


Maybe something like they announced back in 2011 once BER is opened.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... /2027.html

I do not expect that they are going long-haul from Berlin anytime soon, except maybe for tour operators.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4855
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Lufthansa could take over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:30 pm

Any news from today's Lufthansa board meeting or is it still quiet?
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Lufthansa could take over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:39 pm

Ryanair CEO O’Leary isn't happy about this deal:

“Remarkably, and once again, it looks like Brussels [the European Commission] will not do anything about [the deal]. They blocked the proposed merger between Ryanair and Aer Lingus—which was going to shake up the foundations of the European aviation—three times. Yet, Lufthansa can buy Air Berlin,” Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary told Aviation Daily here amid the LCC’s announcement of its expanded summer 2017 schedule for Belgium.


http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... erlin-deal
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10629
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Lufthansa could take over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:48 pm

And he is right. This deal is laughably anti-competitive and basically a partial back door merger with AirBerlin on the LH Group's part.

But since it includes part of the untouchable legacy trifecta (LH Group, AF/KLM, IAG) the European authorities will turn their backs.
 
User avatar
BobMUC
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:59 pm

Re: Lufthansa could take over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:05 pm

Hot from the press:

- AB will reduce their fleet to around 75 planes
- Layoff of around 1.200 employees
- LH Group (with Eurowings and Austrian Airlines) will take over up to 40 planes
- Cooperation between AirBerlin and Eurowings for the next six years, starting 03/26/17

Source in German: http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/airberlin-133.html
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Lufthansa could take over 1/3 of AirBerlin's flights

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:10 pm

Please continue your discussion here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1343963

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos