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atcpeter
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Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:27 pm

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong in speculating recently that SFO would avoid doing this because it doesn't quite align with the premium passenger experience the airport tries to create.

Yesterday two Cobus units spent the morning doing driver training by Gate 59. And it sounds like they could go into use as soon as next month. I don't know exactly where the stands will be, though one possibility is just to the south of the old gates 29/30. Not sure of aircraft size limits, but the airport may put up to five spots there either for holding or RON parking aircraft, and a couple might be used for passenger loading/unloading. Yes, there is room there even once construction barricades for the new T1 go up.

As previously discussed, there are RON stands near both international terminals that can accommodate B744 and B77W.

Please chime in if you have more details.
 
babastud
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Great news! I posted some time back about sfo needed to get going with remote parking. Yes it's not the premium experience but it adds a little flavor to the travel experience and most important is it will hopefully aleave planes waiting for a gate which has been a growing problem due to the surging traffic.
 
rcair1
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:56 pm

babastud wrote:
Great news! I posted some time back about sfo needed to get going with remote parking. Yes it's not the premium experience but it adds a little flavor to the travel experience and most important is it will hopefully aleave planes waiting for a gate which has been a growing problem due to the surging traffic.

Maybe they could take the premium's to the plane in a Ferrari.... Sorry - forgot it is San Francisco - Tesla
rcair1
 
anonms
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:04 pm

I'm honestly surprised SFO didn't consider just using bussing for WN versus building a temporary terminal during T1 construction.
This is my signature.
 
babastud
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:05 pm

rcair1 wrote:
babastud wrote:
Great news! I posted some time back about sfo needed to get going with remote parking. Yes it's not the premium experience but it adds a little flavor to the travel experience and most important is it will hopefully aleave planes waiting for a gate which has been a growing problem due to the surging traffic.

Maybe they could take the premium's to the plane in a Ferrari.... Sorry - forgot it is San Francisco - Tesla



So True!
 
rcair1
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:37 pm

babastud wrote:
rcair1 wrote:
babastud wrote:
Great news! I posted some time back about sfo needed to get going with remote parking. Yes it's not the premium experience but it adds a little flavor to the travel experience and most important is it will hopefully aleave planes waiting for a gate which has been a growing problem due to the surging traffic.

Maybe they could take the premium's to the plane in a Ferrari.... Sorry - forgot it is San Francisco - Tesla



So True!


A quick 150mph run down the active might be a good upgrade incentive....
rcair1
 
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atypical
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:01 am

Busing passengers out to aircraft in the US has always struck me problematic due to ADA restrictions. ADA is one of the reasons I was always under the impression most airports could not effective use them The Plane-Mates used at Dulles were ADA compliant but a nightmare in upkeep and purchase expense. Are there any details on how ADA will be met in general and which SFO gates have elevators (assuming these gates will need them for wheelchair passengers). How are wheelchair passengers going to be lifted to AC door and does SFO currently have equipment supporting that ability. Last question, could this be apart of a set of remote isolated gates where passengers would have a waiting area, normal jetways, and the buses are for building to building transportation?
 
migair54
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:51 am

rcair1 wrote:
babastud wrote:
Great news! I posted some time back about sfo needed to get going with remote parking. Yes it's not the premium experience but it adds a little flavor to the travel experience and most important is it will hopefully aleave planes waiting for a gate which has been a growing problem due to the surging traffic.

Maybe they could take the premium's to the plane in a Ferrari.... Sorry - forgot it is San Francisco - Tesla


What you said is not that crazy idea, if you travel via Doha or Dubai, business class pax have a dedicated bus with very nice seats, completely different from the regular one, and same for first class pax, in other places First class pax go to the plane in a nice car, something like a big Mercedes.

The only problem is when the weather is not good, rain, snow, windy, cold temperatures... very uncomfortable.

If SFO offer that stand at a cheaper rate than a contact one, maybe they can attract Norwegian to SFO rather than OAK in the future, low cost airlines are not very worry about this kind of boarding as long as the price is good.

atcpeter wrote:
it doesn't quite align with the premium passenger experience the airport tries to create.

Last year I went to SFO, I arrived with KLM, at the same time AF plane arrive, 500 or more pax in immigration and 2 agents only, very rude and angry ones, it took me over 90 to do that, that's is more annoying than boarding the plane in a remote stand and if you have a connecting flight you can easily be late.
 
babastud
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:36 pm

I agree between immigration and security the "experience" will always be under some challenge. The way I see it is that SFO wants people spending those dollars in the shops(which many asians and euro's do) and access to clubs.

If you had a few remote stands for the lower cost Wow, volaris, southwest, etc... you could free up those gates for others.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:19 pm

atypical wrote:
Busing passengers out to aircraft in the US has always struck me problematic due to ADA restrictions. ADA is one of the reasons I was always under the impression most airports could not effective use them The Plane-Mates used at Dulles were ADA compliant but a nightmare in upkeep and purchase expense. Are there any details on how ADA will be met in general and which SFO gates have elevators (assuming these gates will need them for wheelchair passengers). How are wheelchair passengers going to be lifted to AC door and does SFO currently have equipment supporting that ability. Last question, could this be apart of a set of remote isolated gates where passengers would have a waiting area, normal jetways, and the buses are for building to building transportation?


How do U.S.airports that don't have jet bridges load disabled pax?
 
atcpeter
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:25 pm

MaxxFlyer wrote:
How do U.S.airports that don't have jet bridges load disabled pax?


Some variation of one of these: http://www.kcigse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/027.JPG
That particular model can service B739 and smaller. I haven't seen that type at SFO, but a smaller type for E175/CRJ7 is already there.

The ramp length and angle, as well as the intermediate "landings" are designed to meet ADA criteria.

Now we wait and see which operators/aircraft types start using this. There are a few places in the terminals where secure-side elevators connect to the ramp (assuming you have the right badge to activate the elevator... it's not something a wayward pax would be able to do).
 
winter
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:29 pm

At most European airports there's a vehicle akin to a catering truck that transports the ADA individual terminal-plane and then lifts up to plane level.
 
L1011
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:46 am

I have seen disabled passengers on inter-island flights at Molokai loaded with forklifts.

Bob Bradley
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
 
Aeri28
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:16 am

San Francisco is one of the most politically correct cities in the US. I'm sure they will be ADA compliant.

winter wrote:
At most European airports there's a vehicle akin to a catering truck that transports the ADA individual terminal-plane and then lifts up to plane level.


Slightly off topic, but there was a Kate Winslet film several years ago. She played an Australian woman running off to India to find herself. Her mother decides to go looking for her and bring her back. While there, the mother experiences so many India based issues with food, delhi belly, robbery, laced mago lassie and to top it off, she falls and breaks her leg. Kate brings her back to Australia and while at the airport in India (Calcutta I think, maybe Mumbai), her mother is being raised by one of those catering truck vehicles up to the rear door of the plane and awakens just as she is able to look up and see the Kangaroo on the aircraft tail and says "Thank God its Qantas".
 
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kearnet
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:31 am

Aeri28 wrote:
San Francisco is one of the most politically correct cities in the US. I'm sure they will be ADA compliant.

winter wrote:
At most European airports there's a vehicle akin to a catering truck that transports the ADA individual terminal-plane and then lifts up to plane level.


Slightly off topic, but there was a Kate Winslet film several years ago. She played an Australian woman running off to India to find herself. Her mother decides to go looking for her and bring her back. While there, the mother experiences so many India based issues with food, delhi belly, robbery, laced mago lassie and to top it off, she falls and breaks her leg. Kate brings her back to Australia and while at the airport in India (Calcutta I think, maybe Mumbai), her mother is being raised by one of those catering truck vehicles up to the rear door of the plane and awakens just as she is able to look up and see the Kangaroo on the aircraft tail and says "Thank God its Qantas".


'Holy Smoke' (1999)

Never seen it, but based on your description I kinda want to.
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winter
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:54 am

winter wrote:
At most European airports there's a vehicle akin to a catering truck that transports the ADA individual terminal-plane and then lifts up to plane level.


Its called an ambulift.

Image
 
hayzel777
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:17 am

Good to see SFO offering remote boarding. Hopefully the LCC/ULCC take those. That way, they don't hog a gate and a full-service carrier's passengers can have a "premium experience" while the LCC/ULCC get wat the paid for.
 
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atypical
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:33 am

Aeri28 wrote:
San Francisco is one of the most politically correct cities in the US. I'm sure they will be ADA compliant.


I'm inclined to believe that political correctness will be far less motivation that potentially hefty ADA fines, but I'm cynical that way.

L1011 wrote:
I have seen disabled passengers on inter-island flights at Molokai loaded with forklifts.


If SFO takes a forklift and repurposes for ADA service (even with ADA passenger compartment decked out with climate control, hardwood interior, with complimentary caviar) some member of the press will only see only the forklift and cause the airport a PR headache. I am even more cynical when it comes to the press on slow news days.

atcpeter wrote:

Some variation of one of these: http://www.kcigse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/027.JPG
That particular model can service B739 and smaller. I haven't seen that type at SFO, but a smaller type for E175/CRJ7 is already there.

The ramp length and angle, as well as the intermediate "landings" are designed to meet ADA criteria.

Now we wait and see which operators/aircraft types start using this. There are a few places in the terminals where secure-side elevators connect to the ramp (assuming you have the right badge to activate the elevator... it's not something a wayward pax would be able to do).


I did not know about the side elevators so thanks for the info. Here are two more examples of those boarding ramps:

Image

Image

When I originally wrote my questions I was thinking about larger aircraft, has anyone designed these kinds of ramps for widebodies?. Reconsidering, as far as I know this proposal is for smaller aircraft only and these loading ramps would work for both regular and ADA passengers. The major issue I see these types of loading ramps is they would seem to work best in fair weather climates. SFO weather can be downright nasty and if passengers are not dressed appropriately to queue outside for a bit this could generate some passenger backlash. Again this is a peculiarity to the US simply because it is so rare that passengers are bused to a remote boarding stand. If this were a European airport this kind of plan would probably generate more yawns than comments. I think SFO is a poor choice of a major airport to introduce many Americans to this concept but necessity trumps convienence. In any case it does not mean SFO could not implement this kind of boarding system well it is just it has some inherent difficulties that could be very painful if missed or misjudged.

Couple last questions if anyone knows... Assuming a short bus drive from terminal to boarding stand, how much increase in turnaround do airlines add for remote unboarding and boarding (A320 for general reference). Are more airline employees needed to service a flight since the gate counter and aircraft are no longer in close proximity?
 
hayzel777
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:57 am

I think all airlines that carry cattle(aka poor passengers on LCC/ULCC) should be forced to use remote boarding. It saves the premium experience for the people that paid for it and the cattle can suffer.
 
AirBoat
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:22 am

Remote pax unloading can be much quicker for the pax.
at cape town or jhb, the bus drops you at the baggage claim.
If the plane was at a docking station, you could have a very long walk to baggage claim. I would not call that a premium experience.
 
sincx
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:26 am

hayzel777 wrote:
I think all airlines that carry cattle(aka poor passengers on LCC/ULCC) should be forced to use remote boarding. It saves the premium experience for the people that paid for it and the cattle can suffer.
As long as the respective passenger pays the same facility fees and the respective airlines pays the same landing fees, then everyone gets to use the same facilities.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:15 am

hayzel777 wrote:
I think all airlines that carry cattle(aka poor passengers on LCC/ULCC) should be forced to use remote boarding. It saves the premium experience for the people that paid for it and the cattle can suffer.


Of course none of that matters in many European airports. Even if you paid for F on LH, AF, AZ, etc., depending on the airport, get in the damn bus! It's something I can't stand.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
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lydh
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:11 pm

Utility aside, remote stand bussing is such a trashy experience, and looks horrible for the airline as well.
 
bobdino
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:14 pm

I'd be utterly shocked if SFO tried to use those ramps for anything taller than a 737. I've been in Ambulift-style devices across the world. They can be rather noisy as a passenger, but they're super-effective and can get anywhere a catering truck can.

I've not done a remote stand emplane or deplane from the upper deck of an A380, but I'd be surprised if the gear didn't exist to make it easy.
 
A2
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:57 pm

I think the assignment of which airlines gets the remote stand should not be based solely on LCC/ULCC status. But rather it should be based on aircraft seat count. For example, to address the overcrowding in A and G gates, airlines operating narrow bodies such as COPA, AeroMexico, UA's Mexico flights should be assigned to remote stands. Also, during the mid-morning to afternoon rush hour on G, the B788 flights can be assigned remote stands. Doing so can minimize inconvenience to passengers and facilitate more efficient use of available gate spaces.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:53 pm

As a side note, my late mother in a wheel chair and pax booked on a flight Gatwick-Newquay were over looked for boarding.
When the fact dawned on the airline she was rushed down to the ramp and loaded onto a catering truck and on to the aircraft.
At 84 she said that was fun.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:36 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
I think all airlines that carry cattle(aka poor passengers on LCC/ULCC) should be forced to use remote boarding. It saves the premium experience for the people that paid for it and the cattle can suffer.

Ha, wow.
Even if trolling, that's one of the most vile elitist comments I've seen on this site.
Now you're flying smart
 
hayzel777
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:43 pm

A2 wrote:
I think the assignment of which airlines gets the remote stand should not be based solely on LCC/ULCC status. But rather it should be based on aircraft seat count. For example, to address the overcrowding in A and G gates, airlines operating narrow bodies such as COPA, AeroMexico, UA's Mexico flights should be assigned to remote stands. Also, during the mid-morning to afternoon rush hour on G, the B788 flights can be assigned remote stands. Doing so can minimize inconvenience to passengers and facilitate more efficient use of available gate spaces.


UA's Mexico flights will be using the Terminal 3 swing gates once they r completed. Pretty sure COPA would jump over there too. If the price is right, WOW will prob jump to remote boarding.
 
hayzel777
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:46 pm

flyDTW1992 wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
I think all airlines that carry cattle(aka poor passengers on LCC/ULCC) should be forced to use remote boarding. It saves the premium experience for the people that paid for it and the cattle can suffer.

Ha, wow.
Even if trolling, that's one of the most vile elitist comments I've seen on this site.


Not trolling. They should discount the parking fee for the LCC/ULCC and feed the cattle through stairs and the jetbridges can be saved for full service carriers.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:56 pm

atcpeter wrote:
MaxxFlyer wrote:
How do U.S.airports that don't have jet bridges load disabled pax?


Some variation of one of these: http://www.kcigse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/027.JPG
That particular model can service B739 and smaller. I haven't seen that type at SFO, but a smaller type for E175/CRJ7 is already there.

The ramp length and angle, as well as the intermediate "landings" are designed to meet ADA criteria.

Now we wait and see which operators/aircraft types start using this. There are a few places in the terminals where secure-side elevators connect to the ramp (assuming you have the right badge to activate the elevator... it's not something a wayward pax would be able to do).


That's what I thought. My first trip to JAC they deplaned with one of those.

As for SFO, wonder if there is room for the type of LAX overflow gates on the west side, with a jet bridge then down to a shuttle bus?
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:02 pm

lydh wrote:
Utility aside, remote stand bussing is such a trashy experience, and looks horrible for the airline as well.


I assume you do not travel internationally very often. Remote stands are quite common.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:07 pm

MaxxFlyer wrote:
lydh wrote:
Utility aside, remote stand bussing is such a trashy experience, and looks horrible for the airline as well.


I assume you do not travel internationally very often. Remote stands are quite common.


True, but they still suck. Nothing like rolling into FRA after an 11 hr red eye to be able to walk around the tarmac at 7 in the morning on a rainy day. Such a bad experience.
 
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lydh
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:37 pm

MaxxFlyer wrote:
lydh wrote:
Utility aside, remote stand bussing is such a trashy experience, and looks horrible for the airline as well.


I assume you do not travel internationally very often. Remote stands are quite common.


You assume wrong. My dislike of remote stands has increased along with their ubiquity at airports around the world.
 
babastud
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:42 pm

I have to say more often then not I prefer remote/bus/tarmac departure and arrival. It mixes things up and gives you a chance to breath real air often after being stuck on a plane for too long. A little rain/wind/etc only adds to the realness of the experience, and being ground level gives you a great view of the plane and other planes (this I love). The experience puts you in touch with flying in a way that we don't often have in our 24/7 techno bubble! That being said, there are times that remote can be a more preferred way or not quite as nice.
It oftens depends on how the airport handles it, and how many pax they shove into the buses. Many developing countries will pack you into buses like a can of sardines, Euro airports tend to make it a comfortable experience. Either way I welcome it for SFO, it beats the hell out of an extra 20 min holding for the gate to open up , I would much rather be breathing that 58`F foggy air.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:54 pm

I'm surprised this is even being discussed. Maybe I connected in IAD and have flown internationally so often, I never realized this was a problem. Taking a bus isn't much different than having to walk to the plane at an airport that doesn't use jet bridges and there are lots of places in the U.S. like that. I also prefer a bus, over waiting for a gate.
 
atcpeter
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:33 pm

spinkid wrote:
I'm surprised this is even being discussed. Maybe I connected in IAD and have flown internationally so often, I never realized this was a problem. Taking a bus isn't much different than having to walk to the plane at an airport that doesn't use jet bridges and there are lots of places in the U.S. like that. I also prefer a bus, over waiting for a gate.


Yeah but we're all nerds, so we *have to* discuss it :P

The word is, at least initially, buses will take pax between A2 and stand A18. Most likely carriers are domestic narrowbodies (AS, B6, SY...). I'd hazard to guess during the 11am-2pm peaks, when some of those carriers currently wait on the ramp for 10-20 minutes for a gate to open up. The airport may expand it to other carriers/equipment types depending on how it goes. And yes, there are spots on the G-side that could service B77W and smaller. What actually gets the remote experience, we'll have to wait and see.
 
aviatorcraig
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:01 pm

Bussing to and from an aircraft on a remote stand is much more commonplace in Europe than the US.
Whilst I agree it is a pain in the rear after a long flight to be packed into a bus like a sardine, it does have a few positives as well:
* Ailines like it because they can use front AND rear doors which is priceless to say, an LCC on a tight turnaround.
* Pax benefit because the bus will usually drop you much closer to the customs/immigration/baggage claim area than if you had walked off on a jet bridge.
* A.nutters and anyone interested in aviation should like it because it is one of the few opportunities to get up close and personal with the outside of your aircraft these days, especially in the US where they don't seem to put windows in the jet bridges for some reason.
At the age of 58 and after a lifetime of flying, I slill find it magical to be stood halfway up the stairs waiting to board a Ryanair 737 and watching the engine windmilling in the breeze, or deplanning from the rear door of the same aircraft watching whisps of smoke eminating from the rear of the just shut down CFM-56. I'll put up with a two minute bus ride with for that.
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NichCage
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:17 pm

In the future, SFO will have a lot of problems and become even more congested. The International Terminal is very busy at certain hours of the day and the new international swing gates won't be added for a while. Boarding Area G is busy, while Boarding Area A is busy as well, along with the fact that several domestic airlines are taking up gate space due to the Terminal 1 re-construction. Along with the fact that SFO cannot expand by making more runways, separating the distance the runways have between them, as well as the problem of not being able to build any new Terminals, SFO will continue to get busier without major expansion plans.
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:03 pm

lydh wrote:
MaxxFlyer wrote:
lydh wrote:
Utility aside, remote stand bussing is such a trashy experience, and looks horrible for the airline as well.


I assume you do not travel internationally very often. Remote stands are quite common.


You assume wrong. My dislike of remote stands has increased along with their ubiquity at airports around the world.


To each his own. Personally I have never considered remote stands as trashy, for the airport or airline.
 
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atypical
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:02 am

NichCage wrote:
In the future, SFO will have a lot of problems and become even more congested. The International Terminal is very busy at certain hours of the day and the new international swing gates won't be added for a while. Boarding Area G is busy, while Boarding Area A is busy as well, along with the fact that several domestic airlines are taking up gate space due to the Terminal 1 re-construction. Along with the fact that SFO cannot expand by making more runways, separating the distance the runways have between them, as well as the problem of not being able to build any new Terminals, SFO will continue to get busier without major expansion plans.


SFO could build more terminals if the Airport Commission can make a gutsy move and not renew the lease for the United Maintenance base. There is enough room to increase the number of gates by at least 50%. Room isn't the issue, backbone is.

In all fairness SFO has issues other airports do not. It has absolutely no ability to acquire additional property, even purchasing it at double the market rates. The only way to increase acreage is to reclaim from the bay which is highly unlikely with the bay area political climate.
 
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BreninTW
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:11 am

atypical wrote:
Busing passengers out to aircraft in the US has always struck me problematic due to ADA restrictions. ADA is one of the reasons I was always under the impression most airports could not effective use them The Plane-Mates used at Dulles were ADA compliant but a nightmare in upkeep and purchase expense. Are there any details on how ADA will be met in general and which SFO gates have elevators (assuming these gates will need them for wheelchair passengers). How are wheelchair passengers going to be lifted to AC door and does SFO currently have equipment supporting that ability. Last question, could this be apart of a set of remote isolated gates where passengers would have a waiting area, normal jetways, and the buses are for building to building transportation?


At JNB, for the longest time the airport maintained (and may still do) an ambulance that was built on the same lines as a catering truck. It would pull up to the side of the aircraft and the whole body would be raised up to meet a door, then wheelchair pax would be wheeled out and into the body ... then taken off to the terminal. In January this year, I was flying to SGN, and I overheard the cabin crew saying that there was a lift coming for the (large) number of wheelchair pax on the flight.
 
hayzel777
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:26 am

atypical wrote:
NichCage wrote:
In the future, SFO will have a lot of problems and become even more congested. The International Terminal is very busy at certain hours of the day and the new international swing gates won't be added for a while. Boarding Area G is busy, while Boarding Area A is busy as well, along with the fact that several domestic airlines are taking up gate space due to the Terminal 1 re-construction. Along with the fact that SFO cannot expand by making more runways, separating the distance the runways have between them, as well as the problem of not being able to build any new Terminals, SFO will continue to get busier without major expansion plans.


SFO could build more terminals if the Airport Commission can make a gutsy move and not renew the lease for the United Maintenance base. There is enough room to increase the number of gates by at least 50%. Room isn't the issue, backbone is.

In all fairness SFO has issues other airports do not. It has absolutely no ability to acquire additional property, even purchasing it at double the market rates. The only way to increase acreage is to reclaim from the bay which is highly unlikely with the bay area political climate.


We will see how the market is in 2023. Until then, United is stuck there. U can also just remove the cargo facility and catering building right next to G and extend in down.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:24 pm

atypical wrote:
In all fairness SFO has issues other airports do not. It has absolutely no ability to acquire additional property, even purchasing it at double the market rates. The only way to increase acreage is to reclaim from the bay which is highly unlikely with the bay area political climate.


Politically impossible, but also a tremendous waste of money when there's plenty of excess capacity/room for growth at OAK and SJC.

Article today in Chronicle regarding growth at SFO http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/art ... 230794.php
 
scutfarcus
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 3:03 pm

Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:23 pm

This sounds fine to me!

I reckon about 1/3 of the time when I fly United I wind up sitting there waiting for a gate to open. Granted I'm flying at premium times but still I would gladly get out and rid a bus rather than sit there for 20-30 minutes twiddling my thumbs.
 
MaxxFlyer
Posts: 456
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:38 am

hayzel777 wrote:
atypical wrote:
NichCage wrote:
In the future, SFO will have a lot of problems and become even more congested. The International Terminal is very busy at certain hours of the day and the new international swing gates won't be added for a while. Boarding Area G is busy, while Boarding Area A is busy as well, along with the fact that several domestic airlines are taking up gate space due to the Terminal 1 re-construction. Along with the fact that SFO cannot expand by making more runways, separating the distance the runways have between them, as well as the problem of not being able to build any new Terminals, SFO will continue to get busier without major expansion plans.


SFO could build more terminals if the Airport Commission can make a gutsy move and not renew the lease for the United Maintenance base. There is enough room to increase the number of gates by at least 50%. Room isn't the issue, backbone is.

In all fairness SFO has issues other airports do not. It has absolutely no ability to acquire additional property, even purchasing it at double the market rates. The only way to increase acreage is to reclaim from the bay which is highly unlikely with the bay area political climate.


We will see how the market is in 2023. Until then, United is stuck there. U can also just remove the cargo facility and catering building right next to G and extend in down.


And after 2023? I seriously doubt UA leaves it's primary TPAC hub, even if it uses the trashy remote stands you seen hellbent on avoiding.
 
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nikeson13
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:52 am

Unless SFO gives UA a hell of a deal to move their MX somewhere else, theres no way that area is gonna become another terminal. A key factor about SFO for UA was for the mx they could do there which saved time and money (recall UA used to do some mx over at OAK, but they got rid of that in favor of all SFO). Even after the 744 leaves those super bays will see plenty of use with the A350s that replace them. There is some other slim options though, such as the catering and cargo buildings between the main terminals and the long term parking, as well as tons of ground parking taking up a ton of space but I'm not sure where those could be relocated either. Maybe underground? Or possibly another parking structure by the current one, get rid of all the ground parking at the end of 28L/R, and move some catering and cargo there? But those building may possibly be too tall for current 10R/L arrivals. SFO is kinda in a tight spot, but they got to figure out something soon to keep ahead of demand cause that little extension they want to do along the BART rail line from Int. G won't do much. Brought up the possibility of remote stands in another thread, great to see them possibly going through with this.
Nikolas
 
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intotheair
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:50 am

nikeson13 wrote:
SFO is kinda in a tight spot, but they got to figure out something soon to keep ahead of demand cause that little extension they want to do along the BART rail line from Int. G won't do much. Brought up the possibility of remote stands in another thread, great to see them possibly going through with this.


Just a minor correction — it's the AirTrain that SFO wants to extend, not the BART line. They are two separate systems. SFO operates the AirTrain and wants to extend it to the long term parking lot to the north, as well as loop it into the proposed hotel project.

BART is exploring schedule adjustments to create express or limited service lines from SFO to the East Bay relatively soon, but I wouldn't think that would have a significant impact on SFO as a whole.
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DocLightning
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:31 am

My experience with remote stands has varied depending on how organized the airport is. If the airport has sufficient vehicles ready AND the passengers are offloaded by stairs or ramp, then remote stands can be fast and efficient. But if the airport doesn't have vehicles lined up at the ready or requires mobile lounges, it can take forever.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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nikeson13
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Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:01 am

intotheair wrote:
nikeson13 wrote:
SFO is kinda in a tight spot, but they got to figure out something soon to keep ahead of demand cause that little extension they want to do along the BART rail line from Int. G won't do much. Brought up the possibility of remote stands in another thread, great to see them possibly going through with this.


Just a minor correction — it's the AirTrain that SFO wants to extend, not the BART line. They are two separate systems. SFO operates the AirTrain and wants to extend it to the long term parking lot to the north, as well as loop it into the proposed hotel project.


Sorry i may have been unclear, but i was talking about the extension of terminal G to add 3 more wide body gates ALONG the BART line, which can be seen here.http://media.flysfo.com/media/sfo/Design_and_Construction_Presentation%2004-07-16.pdf
Also, didn't notice this last time looking at the document but it seems that if there were any bus gates, they would be G91 and A2. Seems like the most logical since G91 is in that hard corner as well as A2. It also looks like they're gonna take out some of that parking near A8/10 and realign McDonnell Road to make room for up to 3 777 parking spots.
Nikolas
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Remote pax loading coming to SFO

Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:11 am

nikeson13 wrote:
Sorry i may have been unclear, but i was talking about the extension of terminal G to add 3 more wide body gates ALONG the BART line, which can be seen here.http://media.flysfo.com/media/sfo/Design_and_Construction_Presentation%2004-07-16.pdf
Also, didn't notice this last time looking at the document but it seems that if there were any bus gates, they would be G91 and A2. Seems like the most logical since G91 is in that hard corner as well as A2. It also looks like they're gonna take out some of that parking near A8/10 and realign McDonnell Road to make room for up to 3 777 parking spots.


Ah, makes sense! Thanks for pointing it out in the link as well.
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