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andygarrett
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Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:36 pm

What call sign do the pilots for Donald Trump use? For now I am guessing N757AF but if he becomes President and is on his plane (cheaper to operate than a 747) would it be "Trump One"? Anyone know?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:54 pm

When President, he would fly the 747, not his own 757.
 
andygarrett
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:00 pm

Understand, but in his case he does as he wants and I could see him telling the Secret Service; "guys, we'll take my plane".
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:04 pm

it would be "Executive One"
 
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GE9X
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:43 pm

As qcpilot said it would be Executive One, but it's extremely doubtful he would ever take his 757 as POTUS, and he would be heavily advised against doing so by his political advisors but especially his military advisors. First of all there's no reason to do so; AF1 is probably not as lavish in the details (24 karat gold on the seatbelts, lol) but it is much larger and has a similar level of comfort; second, N757AF lacks the security, the survivability, and the executive slash military command and control functions and abilities that the VC-25s have; third, Air Force One is a symbol of the United States and the presidency, it would be in very bad taste for anyone to use his personal brand as President, and even someone with an ego of this size wouldn't dare doing it, especially if their brand relies on patriotism.
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:47 pm

qcpilotxf wrote:
it would be "Executive One"

Correct. While, as others have said, it'd be highly unlikely to ever occur, a civil aircraft carrying POTUS will use "Executive One" as its call sign.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:59 pm

It is amazing that Trump has never changed his N number to something that he would identify with as opposed the N757AF. The AF stands for Allen Family or so the legend goes.
 
Flighty
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:31 pm

What is his callsign now, as a private citizen?

Agree with the above, it is kind of his duty as President to stay within the security bubble. And, certain people make it their job to protect the US president, fly him/her around, etc. As a core government function that should be respected.

On a tangent, that drives me nuts when people criticize the cost of a president taking a vacation and how much fuel AF1 burns, pilot costs and everything. So what?! This is a core US government function. We have a president. He or she goes wherever they want and does whatever they want, because that is their expressed right in the law. The president's jet is there to be used by first family. As POTUS deems appropriate. Don't like it, obtain the presidential office yourself and then your opinion will matter. I don't know what is wrong with people! End rant
 
Yflyer
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:47 pm

Flighty wrote:
What is his callsign now, as a private citizen?


As I understand it private aircraft typically use the tail number as the callsign, so I would guess it's November 757 alpha foxtrot. Can owners of private planes request a "vanity callsign", for lack of a better word?
 
trnswrld
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:57 pm

I have worked Trumps plane multiple times recently and it's just as some of you have said "November seven five seven alpha fox"
LIke any VIP movement most controllers have no clue who is on the airplane.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:59 pm

Yflyer wrote:
Flighty wrote:
What is his callsign now, as a private citizen?


As I understand it private aircraft typically use the tail number as the callsign, so I would guess it's November 757 alpha foxtrot. Can owners of private planes request a "vanity callsign", for lack of a better word?

I believe so. That's what all those "dotcom" callsigns are I heard.
 
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ua900
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:10 pm

The fastest way should be to relaunch Trump Airlines as a charter outfit, give it the call sign "Trump" and then assign "Trump 1" to whatever flight he's on when flying his 757 (as opposed to any government aircraft, which will always follow the standard convention of Air Force 1, Marine 1, etc.)

Interestingly enough it seems that Trump Airlines / Trump Shuttle never used a specific callsign (such as speedbird or redwood). I like him, and I would have fully expected him to have a call sign for his airline since it always featured his name, along with a UA channel 9 equivalent so that passengers may hear the call sign mentioned often throughout the flight.
 
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LeCoqFrancais
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:16 pm

Flighty wrote:
On a tangent, that drives me nuts when people criticize the cost of a president taking a vacation and how much fuel AF1 burns, pilot costs and everything. So what?! This is a core US government function. We have a president. He or she goes wherever they want and does whatever they want, because that is their expressed right in the law. The president's jet is there to be used by first family. As POTUS deems appropriate. Don't like it, obtain the presidential office yourself and then your opinion will matter. I don't know what is wrong with people! End rant

I don't have an issue with Government using a special fleet of airplanes for business purposes. However I don't see the need to use the VC-25s for vacations when they could use the C-32s that are cheaper on fuel burn and have more then enough range to fly the President and his family to any vacation spot he may enjoy.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:56 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
Flighty wrote:
On a tangent, that drives me nuts when people criticize the cost of a president taking a vacation and how much fuel AF1 burns, pilot costs and everything. So what?! This is a core US government function. We have a president. He or she goes wherever they want and does whatever they want, because that is their expressed right in the law. The president's jet is there to be used by first family. As POTUS deems appropriate. Don't like it, obtain the presidential office yourself and then your opinion will matter. I don't know what is wrong with people! End rant

I don't have an issue with Government using a special fleet of airplanes for business purposes. However I don't see the need to use the VC-25s for vacations when they could use the C-32s that are cheaper on fuel burn and have more then enough range to fly the President and his family to any vacation spot he may enjoy.


I think they may require him to have immediate access to the mobile command center of the US as well as the increased range of the 747 should the nation be under attack during a vacation. He may be on vacation but he is very much still on the job 24/7 during that vacation.
 
atcpeter
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:15 pm

trnswrld wrote:
I have worked Trumps plane multiple times recently and it's just as some of you have said "November seven five seven alpha fox"
LIke any VIP movement most controllers have no clue who is on the airplane.


...or "Boeing seven five seven alpha foxtrot"

Here's what the NBAA has to say about requesting a callsign from the FAA (which is added to an ICAO database and can be used worldwide):

In order to be eligible to apply for a call sign, a company must fall into one of the following categories:
    Scheduled aircraft operators that operate seven or more non-seasonal international air operations each week, or at least 15 non-seasonal, domestic round-trip air operations each week
    Chartered aircraft operators that may require use of the aeronautical fixed telecommunications network
    Aircraft operators that require an ICAO three-letter designator for security purposes
    Flight service companies and organizations that meet none of these requirements, but are deemed worthy of an ICAO three-letter designator

The last one provides pretty broad discretion on approving or rejecting callsigns. No idea what actual criteria are used in making that decision.
 
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GE9X
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:16 pm

As others have said, the President doesn't really take vacations. Yes they go away for a time, enjoy the golf course, the beach, whatever it is, and avoid meetings with Congress, foreign leaders, other stakeholders and whatever, but they're still on the job. Even executives of large corporations don't have real vacations, they still have emails to respond to, things to watch for, etc, they just keep it to a minimum while enjoying their time away. The President's job is a little bit above in importance, he's got the nuclear codes after all, and so he has to be kept informed of major events, of intelligence matters, etc. That's why he travels on the VC-25, which is its own "little White House" with extensive secure communications and command and control assets. This is not something the C-32s, much less N757AF, can do (short of simple secure communications) and I believe whenever the C-32s are used as Air Force One it's only for very short trips. Take the attempted coup in Turkey for example, or the daily happenings in Syria, or the major attacks in Europe, just to name recent events; if the President had been on a 12+ hour flight to Asia at that time, he would still need to be informed and keep track of things in real time, he can't just wait to land and then pick up the pieces, he's the Commander-in-Chief of the world's most powerful military, not to mention diplomacy and intelligence services. The proverbial 3 AM phone call, right... Gotta be there!

Also, the VC-25s have extensive security features and, most importantly, air to air refueling capability, which means it can stay in the air for very long periods of time when needed. September 11, 2001, is an excellent case study of why the President generally needs to be transported by VC-25, and the event exposed shortcomings with the aircraft's communications abilities, which were later rectified.
 
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LatAmFlyer
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:33 pm

Yflyer wrote:
Flighty wrote:
What is his callsign now, as a private citizen?


As I understand it private aircraft typically use the tail number as the callsign, so I would guess it's November 757 alpha foxtrot. Can owners of private planes request a "vanity callsign", for lack of a better word?


My father long-term leased a plane between 1970-1990 (approx.) and changed its tail number to N300MC to reflect his personal initials. I wish I knew all that was involved, but I was just a kid then and didn' think to ask. It's too late now, unfortunately. :(
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:37 pm

LatAmFlyer wrote:
It's too late now, unfortunately. :(


Gone to the big call sign in the sky these days, eh? Godspeed to your father.
 
RogerMurdock
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:49 pm

GE9X wrote:
September 11, 2001, is an excellent case study of why the President generally needs to be transported by VC-25, and the event exposed shortcomings with the aircraft's communications abilities, which were later rectified.


There was an excellent oral history of this recently published by Politico: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... sky-214230 . I thought it was very interesting, and I'm certainly not the biggest fan of GWB.
 
777ord
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:46 am

currently its based on the tail number. IF that thing becomes POTUS, then it's standard terminology. He will have to cease his title and position from his companies and would not be allowd to travel on his own jets. bummer....
 
United1
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:19 am

flyDTW1992 wrote:
qcpilotxf wrote:
it would be "Executive One"

Correct. While, as others have said, it'd be highly unlikely to ever occur, a civil aircraft carrying POTUS will use "Executive One" as its call sign.


It's only happened a couple of times that I know of...

Nixon flew UA from IAD-LAX a DC-10 that was Executive One for the flight.
Right after Obama's inauguration Marine One became Executive One when it flew Bush from the White House to Andrews.
 
aviatorcraig
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:00 am

Surely Donald Trump's plane's callsign should be...

Hair Force One :)
 
alasizon
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:11 am

United1 wrote:
flyDTW1992 wrote:
qcpilotxf wrote:
it would be "Executive One"

Correct. While, as others have said, it'd be highly unlikely to ever occur, a civil aircraft carrying POTUS will use "Executive One" as its call sign.


It's only happened a couple of times that I know of...

Nixon flew UA from IAD-LAX a DC-10 that was Executive One for the flight.
Right after Obama's inauguration Marine One became Executive One when it flew Bush from the White House to Andrews.


Why did Marine One change its callsign? I thought the Executive One designation only applied to sitting presidents.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:45 am

GE9X wrote:
third, Air Force One is a symbol of the United States and the presidency, it would be in very bad taste for anyone to use his personal brand as President, and even someone with an ego of this size wouldn't dare doing it, especially if their brand relies on patriotism.


I don't want to bring any political matters into this thread, but I also think we could find agreement that no matter what his political views are, his taste... leaves something to be desired.

So yes, this might indeed occur if Trump for some reason wanted to.

(By the way, the September 11 Air Force one story that recently appeared somewhere was chilling in the sense of how cut-off they were in that plane. Didn't even get TV reception, had only two phone lines working, etc. I would assume that got fixed in the years after.)
 
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Channex757
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:33 am

There was a recent story on this in the press. Bush was handicapped by poor communications, and the VC-25 only had ground station TV on the aircraft. Subsequently satellite TV was installed and changes made to the phone system, which I assume would be to also integrate satellite comms into the suite but a much more hardened, military-grade facility.

If the Trumper did make it, his 757 would be useless anyway. As a corporate asset he would have to transfer it to his sons.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:03 am

Channex757 wrote:
If the Trumper did make it, his 757 would be useless anyway. As a corporate asset he would have to transfer it to his sons.


I'm not sure he'd have to.. There'd be a need to avoid conflict of interests, which is why the president usually uses a blind trust, but its not an absolute requirement:
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Presiden ... -necessity
 
StTim
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:27 am

When the company largely trades on his name I am not sure it would be possible to stop conflicts of interest.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:17 pm

USAirKid wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
If the Trumper did make it, his 757 would be useless anyway. As a corporate asset he would have to transfer it to his sons.


I'm not sure he'd have to.. There'd be a need to avoid conflict of interests, which is why the president usually uses a blind trust, but its not an absolute requirement:
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Presiden ... -necessity


That's for personal assets. The 757 is one step removed at least, and will be on the corporate books as an asset.

There is the other point that with the blind trust the Prez cannot direct anything whatsoever concerning the trust or its assets. That would include ordering up a 757 flight. Besides, who needs that flying gin palace when the USAF has perfectly comfortable 757s of its own at Andrews?
 
andygarrett
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:53 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

Another thought is what will the protocols be at PBI should Don come down to Mar a Lago, his house in Palm Beach, for some R & R? Mar a Lago lies due east of the runways and the vast majority of jets fly directly over it (I live in West Palm Beach, so I know). Palm Beach got the FAA to stop fanning the takeoffs 25 years ago so I am guessing all aircraft would be forced to use runway13-31 if he is in residence.
 
sandbender
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:00 pm

I'm sure many people on here know this but for those who don't the call signs "Air Force One", "Marine One", etc didn't come about until 1953. Prior to 1943 standard commercial flights were generally used. From 1943 to 1953 USA(A)F planes were used for Presidential travel but there was no reserved call sign. The incident that led to the change happened when Eisenhower was flying on Columbine II (a Lockheed Constellation) and another aircraft named Columbine II entered the same airspace. To avoid any possibility of confusion going forward the AF1 moniker was adopted.
And I doubt there is any chance Trump would use his 757. First, even his ego will accede to the fact that AF1 has more clout than his plane ever could... if for no other fact than it's "hyuge" (maybe Airbus should rebid the A380?). But, as many others have pointed out, AF1 has a communications suite and countermeasures package that no commercial aircraft could hold a candle to.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:47 pm

I had the pleasure of a private tour through AF1 about two years ago. As interesting as the flight deck might have been, the communication area aft of the flight deck was even more interesting. Hours before departure it was fully manned and the operators were busy establishing links. One of the funny stories we were told is that guests are frequently are allowed to make calls through the Communications suite and of course first thing they do is to say, "Hello (fill in name), this is (fill in name) calling you from Air Force One". The next sound heard is the receiving party hanging up:)

I have been in the 757's as well and would appear that they do not compare regarding communications capability.
Last edited by BravoOne on Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:50 pm

I had the pleasure of a private tour through AF1 about two years ago. As interesting as the flight deck might have been, the communication area aft of the flight deck was even more interesting. Hours before departure it was fully manned and the operators were busy establishing links. One of the funny stories we were told is that guests are frequently are allowed to make calls through the Communications suite and of course first thing they do is to say, "Hello (fill in name), this is (fill in name) calling you from Air Force One". The next sound heard is the receiving party hanging up:)

I have been in the 757's as well and would appear that they do not compare regarding communications capability.
 
andygarrett
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:01 pm

I asked the question (maybe not worded clearly enough to ALL of you), because I had the thought that since Don does numerous things because he can ($$ helps), I live in West Palm Beach, Don flies into PBI, and Don and I share a 138kv electrical substation operating bus (I know, because I work for the local power company). b747400erf incorrectly read my mind; it was NOT a political question even though there is a high probability he will be the next POTUS.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:50 pm

Suggest locking this thread. The O/P's question was answered.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:40 pm

Channex757 wrote:

If the Trumper did make it, his 757 would be useless anyway. As a corporate asset he would have to transfer it to his sons.


Or score a lease deal with any of the Mexican airlines... ? Oh wait hang on ! :lol:
 
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qf789
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Re: Call sign for N757AF (Donald Trump).

Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:05 pm

This thread has become off topic and is now locked

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