trex8
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Posts: 5338
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

CI narrowbody fleet plans

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:07 am

Last year they said they would decide on a narrowbody replacement for their 738s by the end of 2015. Now this news that they are leasing 6 new 738s. First just delivered earlier this month.
https://www.bocaviation.com/en/press-re ... a-airlines
They have 19 in service before these six. Are these 6 additional or are they replacing their older ones, some of which were delivered in 98.
 
hayzel777
Posts: 614
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:26 am

No, they are leasing additional aircraft to increase service/add new routes. They are not buying the replacement right now because the current political party is not pro-china so business is bad, making them skeptical of adding new routes.
 
trex8
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:00 pm

30% increase in narrowbody fleet but they are worried about business??

While they have a few years they need to start thinking about the A330 replacement for regional routes, I believe the first A333 cam eout of heavy check this last year.

Unless they want to give up 1/3 of their revenue they need to start thinking about what replaces all those 744Fs. Even the additional underfloor cargo on their new 77W/A359 will only put a small dent in their freighter capacity. They run 11 744Fs to LAX weekly, a daily 77W gives them enough space equivalent to only one of those freighters.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:47 pm

I mean business is bad for their China routes. The new governments foreign policy is a "southbound" policy and they r following that by adding more service to South East Asia with the larger aircraft and bringing the smaller ones to China/Northeast Asia.
 
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BreninTW
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:27 am

CI is also shifting some of the 738 over to Mandarin Airlines ... I believe (but have no independent confirmation of this) that the E-190s will be replaced by 738 as they are retired out of the fleet. AE currently has at least two 738 in its fleet, one in a "Taichung" special livery, and the one below.

Image
 
ATLFlyer323
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:23 am

What does Mandarin Airlines offer that China Airlines can't cover? I thought they were mainly domestic (could be 100% wrong) but going from E190's to 738's is a big capacity increase if they are more domestic oriented no?
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
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BreninTW
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:35 am

ATLFlyer323 wrote:
What does Mandarin Airlines offer that China Airlines can't cover? I thought they were mainly domestic (could be 100% wrong) but going from E190's to 738's is a big capacity increase if they are more domestic oriented no?


Mandarin is primarily a regional carrier, with very little in the way of domestic flying anymore. The HSR has decimated local air travel over the past 10 years or so, and AE has grown to be quite a useful regional carrier. AE is particularly palatable to the PRC authorities since it doesn't have "China" anywhere in its name, and has been appointed as the primary carrier for a good number of routes.

Other than that, I suspect (but have no independent confirmation of this) that AE's contracts are less expensive than CI's, making AE better suited to some of the more vacation-oriented routes.
 
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alex0easy
Posts: 188
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:04 am

BreninTW wrote:
ATLFlyer323 wrote:
What does Mandarin Airlines offer that China Airlines can't cover? I thought they were mainly domestic (could be 100% wrong) but going from E190's to 738's is a big capacity increase if they are more domestic oriented no?


Mandarin is primarily a regional carrier, with very little in the way of domestic flying anymore. The HSR has decimated local air travel over the past 10 years or so, and AE has grown to be quite a useful regional carrier. AE is particularly palatable to the PRC authorities since it doesn't have "China" anywhere in its name, and has been appointed as the primary carrier for a good number of routes.

Other than that, I suspect (but have no independent confirmation of this) that AE's contracts are less expensive than CI's, making AE better suited to some of the more vacation-oriented routes.



Partly true, the real hurdle for CI in the early 90s (I think that's when) was having the ROC flag painted on their planes, as officially they're the flag carrier of Taiwan (ROC). The PRC government (Beijing) does not recognize the Taiwan government, so flying a plane with Taiwanese flags was troublesome. Mandarin's planes do not have such flags and therefore no problem flying into mainland China. Of course that the Taiwan flags are now dropped on CI planes, so that issue is gone.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:56 am

BreninTW wrote:
ATLFlyer323 wrote:
What does Mandarin Airlines offer that China Airlines can't cover? I thought they were mainly domestic (could be 100% wrong) but going from E190's to 738's is a big capacity increase if they are more domestic oriented no?


Mandarin is primarily a regional carrier, with very little in the way of domestic flying anymore. The HSR has decimated local air travel over the past 10 years or so, and AE has grown to be quite a useful regional carrier. AE is particularly palatable to the PRC authorities since it doesn't have "China" anywhere in its name, and has been appointed as the primary carrier for a good number of routes.

Other than that, I suspect (but have no independent confirmation of this) that AE's contracts are less expensive than CI's, making AE better suited to some of the more vacation-oriented routes.


Do u mean the employment contracts? If so, they are now the same as CI after the union threatened to strike over the Mid-Autumn Festival/Christmas/New Years.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2154
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:31 am

I'm interested in general of China Airlines' plans. Just 14 A350s on order. 8 passenger 747s remaining. And just the 6 737s on order. On the other hand, EVA is placing large orders and expanding at a rapid pace. What is China Airlines' plan? I understand they are a government airline with new leadership but new or "new" aircraft to expand and replace the fleet seems necessary.
 
hayzel777
Posts: 614
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:49 am

jbs2886 wrote:
I'm interested in general of China Airlines' plans. Just 14 A350s on order. 8 passenger 747s remaining. And just the 6 737s on order. On the other hand, EVA is placing large orders and expanding at a rapid pace. What is China Airlines' plan? I understand they are a government airline with new leadership but new or "new" aircraft to expand and replace the fleet seems necessary.


There plan was to expand in Asia for a few years, have a brand revamp when the 777 came, and now, expand the Mid haul and long haul routes. There niche is mostly East Asia. N America is EVA's market and they know that. After all, they can't even go daily on JFK when BR is going double daily. IAH and SEA r currently served daily and SEA is going 11 weekly. They also don't fly YYZ, something BR flies 4 times a week and wants to go daily but the bilateral restricts them.
 
hayzel777
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 am

Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:53 am

BreninTW wrote:
ATLFlyer323 wrote:
What does Mandarin Airlines offer that China Airlines can't cover? I thought they were mainly domestic (could be 100% wrong) but going from E190's to 738's is a big capacity increase if they are more domestic oriented no?


Mandarin is primarily a regional carrier, with very little in the way of domestic flying anymore. The HSR has decimated local air travel over the past 10 years or so, and AE has grown to be quite a useful regional carrier. AE is particularly palatable to the PRC authorities since it doesn't have "China" anywhere in its name, and has been appointed as the primary carrier for a good number of routes.


Other than that, I suspect (but have no independent confirmation of this) that AE's contracts are less expensive than CI's, making AE better suited to some of the more vacation-oriented routes.


They use mostly aircraft that says China Airlines. Does that not irk the Chinese the wrong way too?
 
trex8
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Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:25 pm

Mandarin is strictly a separate entity and when Taiwan government gives out route allocations it gets its "fair share" separate from CI. In the past the political issues were important (they even had MD11s and 747s to fly routes CI could not for political reasons), now CI uses it to just get more routes to specific destinations. Aircraft are frequently leased back and forth between the fleets and AE metal may fly CI routes and vice versa.

BRs expansion is impressive , it;ll be even more impressive if they are in the black running these routes. But then making money has never been a major issue with their parents maritime shipping arm underwriting the airlines losses.
 
anonms
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:42 pm

Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:33 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
They use mostly aircraft that says China Airlines. Does that not irk the Chinese the wrong way too?


Not really? It'd serve as "One China" reinforcement fodder, if anything.
This is my signature.
 
hayzel777
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 am

Re: CI narrowbody fleet plans

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:20 pm

trex8 wrote:
Mandarin is strictly a separate entity and when Taiwan government gives out route allocations it gets its "fair share" separate from CI. In the past the political issues were important (they even had MD11s and 747s to fly routes CI could not for political reasons), now CI uses it to just get more routes to specific destinations. Aircraft are frequently leased back and forth between the fleets and AE metal may fly CI routes and vice versa.

BRs expansion is impressive , it;ll be even more impressive if they are in the black running these routes. But then making money has never been a major issue with their parents maritime shipping arm underwriting the airlines losses.


CI isn't making money either!

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