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SR380
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Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:05 pm

Hey guys,

It seems that this long awaited deal might be happening as of October 2016. Link as follow:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... this-month

I cannot wait to see a 748 in IR's colours!
 
Sooner787
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:24 pm

Those order books looks like IR went on ebay and put everything
on their "watch " list. Let's see how many they actually end up
purchasing.
 
olle
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:15 pm

Well Iran probably is happy for deliverance quit fast considering the status of their fleets. Then 4 748 ready for deliverance is perfect.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:24 pm

Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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nimool
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


This has been published in most Iranian aviation sources as well, earlier this week during the CAPA meeting in Tehran, I saw on twitter that the Australian ambassador to Iran has also urged for direct flights from Tehran to Australia, that is why I think the first 17 Airbuses will include A330s
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
TC957
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:38 pm

So IR are still talking about 12 A380's in their fleet purchase plans in that article. Looking forward to seeing them !
 
amax1977
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:31 pm

nimool wrote:
the Australian ambassador to Iran has also urged for direct flights from Tehran to Australia, that is why I think the first 17 Airbuses will include A330s


I don't think A330 can do nonstop from Iran to Australia. A longer range airplane needed for this.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:32 pm

Maybe Jetstar can launch Tehran.
 
amax1977
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:34 pm

SR380 wrote:
I cannot wait to see a 748 in IR's colours!


I cannot wait for this either. IR has a long romantic history with the queen :)
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:28 pm

amax1977 wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
Maybe Jetstar can launch Tehran.


irrelevant to the topic.


How? its related to a post discussing Australia-Iran links and that the A330 not be suitable for it, so maybe Jetsstar can with the 787.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:38 pm

amax1977 wrote:
I don't think A330 can do nonstop from Iran to Australia. A longer range airplane needed for this.


An A330-300 Enhanced (242t version) can reach Perth from Teheran but it cannot reach Melbourne or Sydney.
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/ ... rformance/
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=OIIE-YPPH&MS=wls&DU=nm

Sydney is probably a stretch even for an A332.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=OIIE-YSSY&DU=nm
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/ ... rformance/
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:43 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


Treasury, not Commerce.

Airbus received a license from the U.S. Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control, Airbus spokesman Mary Anne Greczyn said.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:56 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


Iran has an MoU with Airbus for over 200 aircraft. It's quite possible that only 17 frames have been converted to firm orders and therefore only 17 export licenses are currently needed. As Iran firms more orders, more export licenses will be issued.
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


What a brazenness from the US Department. Who do they think they are to give "permission" to the most successful European aircraft manufacturer to deliver airplanes to Iran? I am sure that Airbus and the European can very good decide for their own to whom they deliver the best airplanes ever build in Europe!!
We Europeans never would be so brash to "allow" Boeing to deliver aircrafts to Iran...who by god do they think they are? God? Omg
 
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Stitch
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:26 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
What a brazenness from the US Department. Who do they think they are to give "permission" to the most successful European aircraft manufacturer to deliver airplanes to Iran? I am sure that Airbus and the European can very good decide for their own to whom they deliver the best airplanes ever build in Europe!!
We Europeans never would be so brash to "allow" Boeing to deliver aircrafts to Iran...who by god do they think they are? God? Omg


If the EU had a ban on exporting certain components to a specific country and Boeing was sourcing said components from the EU for use in their aircraft, you can be quite confident that the EU could and would prevent Boeing from exporting.
Last edited by Stitch on Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Someone83
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:26 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


What a brazenness from the US Department. Who do they think they are to give "permission" to the most successful European aircraft manufacturer to deliver airplanes to Iran? I am sure that Airbus and the European can very good decide for their own to whom they deliver the best airplanes ever build in Europe!!
We Europeans never would be so brash to "allow" Boeing to deliver aircrafts to Iran...who by god do they think they are? God? Omg


Airbus aircraft contains a lot of American parts and addition US [companies] are every important customer for Airbus and Airbus' suppliers. As the US still has sanctions againts Iran, it can lead to consequences and limit the possibility for these companies to do trade in the US, if they breach the US embargo towards Iran. However, this approval enable Airbus and its suppliers to deal with Iran, without risking consequences towards doing business in the US
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:34 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


What a brazenness from the US Department. Who do they think they are to give "permission" to the most successful European aircraft manufacturer to deliver airplanes to Iran? I am sure that Airbus and the European can very good decide for their own to whom they deliver the best airplanes ever build in Europe!!
We Europeans never would be so brash to "allow" Boeing to deliver aircrafts to Iran...who by god do they think they are? God? Omg


How is this news to you? This is how it's always been with the embargo in place. The only thing that's changed is that the embargo is beginning to thaw and the US is willing to export THEIR components to Iran. Final assembly may be in France and Germany but many of those components come from the US. The US is supplying those components and they can then dictate who those components are going to. Sure Airbus could give them the finger but the consequences would be more than they're willing to give.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

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nimool
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:42 pm

amax1977 wrote:
nimool wrote:
the Australian ambassador to Iran has also urged for direct flights from Tehran to Australia, that is why I think the first 17 Airbuses will include A330s


I don't think A330 can do nonstop from Iran to Australia. A longer range airplane needed for this.


Maybe with a stop somewhere in South East Asia? like in KL or SG?
I Believe BA flights to Australia were stopping at Hong Kong on thier 77W types, dont know if they still do!?
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:19 pm

nimool wrote:
amax1977 wrote:
nimool wrote:
the Australian ambassador to Iran has also urged for direct flights from Tehran to Australia, that is why I think the first 17 Airbuses will include A330s


I don't think A330 can do nonstop from Iran to Australia. A longer range airplane needed for this.


Maybe with a stop somewhere in South East Asia? like in KL or SG?
I Believe BA flights to Australia were stopping at Hong Kong on their 77W types, don't know if they still do!?


BA used to have a much larger operation to Australia, but it's dwindled, they currently only operate 1 77W to SYD via SIN. However the 77W has only operated to Australia via SIN, their other flights were 744s and 772s.

For IR, stopping in SE Asia is an option, but probably not the best advised one given the competition between Australia and SE Asia now. Best to wait for the A350, 77W or 748. Or the A380 if they feel super confident.
 
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nimool
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:19 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
nimool wrote:
amax1977 wrote:


For IR, stopping in SE Asia is an option, but probably not the best advised one given the competition between Australia and SE Asia now. Best to wait for the A350, 77W or 748. Or the A380 if they feel super confident.


True Saying, obviously the types you mentions could operate australia no problem, however I dont think if they would even get the 77W and the A350 by the end of 2017, maybe if they get hold of the 748s sooner!?
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:26 pm

nimool wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
nimool wrote:


True Saying, obviously the types you mentions could operate australia no problem, however I dont think if they would even get the 77W and the A350 by the end of 2017, maybe if they get hold of the 748s sooner!?


The A350 I think you're right on, but the 77W can probably be got quite soon, and yes, the 748 shouldn't really have availability problems. Maybe 2018 rather than 2017, but I don't see why they'd have problems getting them. They could use any A330s they get for Europe and Asia, it reaches all of those continents easily.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:00 am

MrHMSH wrote:
The A350 I think you're right on, but the 77W can probably be got quite soon, and yes, the 748 shouldn't really have availability problems. Maybe 2018 rather than 2017, but I don't see why they'd have problems getting them. They could use any A330s they get for Europe and Asia, it reaches all of those continents easily.


The Transaero NTUs have a cabin installed so they can go immediately into service, if desired.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:06 am

I'd see Airbus 'giving' IR some A343's to tide them over until their A350 orders started coming in. This would also allow them to get used to Airbus FBW side-stick cockpit arrangement for long-haul flights before the Airbus 'future-fleet' starts arriving - the A330neo, A380 and A350. I'd see the A350-1000 eventually being perfect for IKA-SYD.

Do others think the A380, 748 and 779 together in one fleet a bit of an over-kill? I just don't see the need for the 748 (unless of course for VIP/prestige lift, it's such a small number after all).
come visit the south pacific
 
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keesje
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:03 am

I think the 12 A380s will be mainly used for California with it's large Iranian communities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Iranian_Americans_in_Los_Angeles

And of course LHR, CDG, FRA, JFK.

Iran is a kind of beautiful rich cultural country with a large well educated population.

It seems opportunities all over now we decided they are less evil.

Image

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1453999435_Airbus-Infographic-Iran-order-Jan16.jpg

Image
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747classic
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:11 pm

Boeing received approval from the federal authorities Wednesday to export passenger jets to Iran , see : http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog ... -iran.html

According this related article the following aircraft are granted for export : http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news ... ngton.html
15 x B777-300ER
15x B777-9X
4 x 747-8I
40 x B737 Max
6 x B737NG
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
RohanDXB
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:07 pm

With all this good stuff happening & as markets open up, is there any chance of IR joining an alliance?

a) Is it legally possible given that there will still be some level of sanctions on the country?
b) If yes to the above, which alliance would they be a good fit for?

Skyteam has Saudia, Oneworld has QR & RJ, * has TK.

I think it would be between Skyteam & *

As per wiki, IR & TK used to codeshare (as of 2012 at least) - don't know the present status.
Maybe IR joining * could bolster *s presence in the Gulf in addition to access to IRs vast domestic network.

There would be value in Skyteam (weak presence) as well but I doubt SV would be too happy having IR as partners.

For the right price I would absolutely fly IR for DXB-IKA-LAX since it requires no backtracking whatsoever. And on new aircraft, it might even be pleasant.

Ro
 
seat24charlie
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:14 pm

In terms of reaching the Iranian Diaspora, I'd say you can expect capacity on IR to focus on LAX, JFK, YYZ, LHR, FRA, CDG, SYD.

12-A380-level capacity though? I still don't see those being a success for IR. And that's speaking as an Iranian who wants desperately to see the Homa on that giant tail. 77Ws seem to be tailor-made for what IR needs in the short term but we'll see.

They'll have no problem getting Iranians ex-IKA onto their planes, but getting Iranian expats, tourists and foreign visitors off Emirates and Qatar will be their biggest challenge. A lot more brand awareness and trust in those two.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:09 pm

The A38 orderss are convertible to other types, its unlikely they will be taken, atleast not all twelve of them.
 
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SR380
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:51 pm

Why would Airbus only ask the permission to export 17 airframes at first? It looks like A320s and A330s, but I find it wired that they did not apply for the all thing at once...
 
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KrustyTheKlown
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:01 pm

I don't understand why some people assume that Iran Air intends to resume service to the US. Both countries are still pretty far from reestablishing relationships to the extend that its citizens are able to travel between them in numbers enough to support direct flights (much less A380 flights).
 
klakzky123
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:28 pm

KrustyTheKlown wrote:
I don't understand why some people assume that Iran Air intends to resume service to the US. Both countries are still pretty far from reestablishing relationships to the extend that its citizens are able to travel between them in numbers enough to support direct flights (much less A380 flights).


I'm not even sure the US and Iran have an active set of bilaterals anymore. Everything dates back to pre-1979 and I'm sure it would all have to be renegotiated. You'd need some sort of deal in the same way that Cuba and the US recently signed a deal to restart flights.

Iran Air isn't going to buy frames (let alone A380s) before any negotiations on air travel are completed, much less started. Not to mention in Cuba's case, the US and Cuba restarted full diplomatic relations. Iran and the US finally just started talking to each other directly and signed a deal to ease off on sanctions. There's a long way to go before the US and Iran can even begin discussing items like air travel.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:11 pm

Speaking of Cuba the Iranian leadership flew there from New Yoirk on his A340.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:58 pm

SR380 wrote:
Why would Airbus only ask the permission to export 17 airframes at first? It looks like A320s and A330s, but I find it wired that they did not apply for the all thing at once...


I am guessing those are the number of frames Iran Air is ready to convert from an MoU to a firm order?
 
solarflyer22
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:51 am

Someone83 wrote:
AirbusOnly wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


What a brazenness from the US Department. Who do they think they are to give "permission" to the most successful European aircraft manufacturer to deliver airplanes to Iran? I am sure that Airbus and the European can very good decide for their own to whom they deliver the best airplanes ever build in Europe!!
We Europeans never would be so brash to "allow" Boeing to deliver aircrafts to Iran...who by god do they think they are? God? Omg


Airbus aircraft contains a lot of American parts and addition US [companies] are every important customer for Airbus and Airbus' suppliers. As the US still has sanctions againts Iran, it can lead to consequences and limit the possibility for these companies to do trade in the US, if they breach the US embargo towards Iran. However, this approval enable Airbus and its suppliers to deal with Iran, without risking consequences towards doing business in the US


I agree the US shouldn't be attempting to restrict sales to Iran, Cuba, North Korea and its quite arrogant to do so but I also blame Airbus for using American content in the first place. If you look at their US subs, they aren't delivering engines. Its usually small ticket items like controllers.

Why the license is only for 17 planes makes no sense either. The Iran Deal was very explicit that airplanes were included and its 16 months since the interim deal went into effect. Good faith would have meant approving the whole thing (200 planes) but they want to hold off so they can blockfuture orders if they feel like.

I too lament the LAX "Tehrangeles" VIP flight fantasies on ANET and I'm Iranian American no less! You do realize, Iran had to essentially blackmail the US with a potential nuclear weapon in order to get aviation sanctions released? Kinda of a big deal. Flying to the USA is literally the last thing they want.
 
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keesje
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:06 am

I think the Iran - US is in the category Global politics.

At some point US policy makers saw, taking all global developments into account (Russia, China, Religious Extremism, Middle easy instability, Oil, Migration) long term, it's smarter to be on speaking terms with Iran.

It's a big country, has a large population, Oil, it's central, has borders with everyone & the Gulf. If something happens in the Middle East, Iran will be there, for ever.

Image

If you want to fix Syria, better visit Teheran. So forget 1979 & move on, by passing the Hawks on both sides..

China and Russia aren't sitting on their hands either. Iran's human rights records is incredible / middle ages in some respects but ala..

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:00 am

solarflyer22 wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
AirbusOnly wrote:

What a brazenness from the US Department. Who do they think they are to give "permission" to the most successful European aircraft manufacturer to deliver airplanes to Iran? I am sure that Airbus and the European can very good decide for their own to whom they deliver the best airplanes ever build in Europe!!
We Europeans never would be so brash to "allow" Boeing to deliver aircrafts to Iran...who by god do they think they are? God? Omg


Airbus aircraft contains a lot of American parts and addition US [companies] are every important customer for Airbus and Airbus' suppliers. As the US still has sanctions againts Iran, it can lead to consequences and limit the possibility for these companies to do trade in the US, if they breach the US embargo towards Iran. However, this approval enable Airbus and its suppliers to deal with Iran, without risking consequences towards doing business in the US


I agree the US shouldn't be attempting to restrict sales to Iran, Cuba, North Korea and its quite arrogant to do so but I also blame Airbus for using American content in the first place. If you look at their US subs, they aren't delivering engines. Its usually small ticket items like controllers.

Why the license is only for 17 planes makes no sense either. The Iran Deal was very explicit that airplanes were included and its 16 months since the interim deal went into effect. Good faith would have meant approving the whole thing (200 planes) but they want to hold off so they can blockfuture orders if they feel like.

I too lament the LAX "Tehrangeles" VIP flight fantasies on ANET and I'm Iranian American no less! You do realize, Iran had to essentially blackmail the US with a potential nuclear weapon in order to get aviation sanctions released? Kinda of a big deal. Flying to the USA is literally the last thing they want.


Well, if American products are the best for a certain item, or they get the best deal, why not use them. It is quite arrogant of America to use commerce to get the world dancing at their every wimp. Lot's of European countries got huge fines from the American government, just because they had a branche in the US and therefore the whole company was restricted to comply with American law, while it was perfectly legal to deal with civilian items. Fokker services for instance got a huge fine for trying to maintain the Fokker fleet in Iran, ridiculous no military items, just keeping the civilian fleet save for flying.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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LH748
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:55 pm

I'm so excited to see the IR fleet grow and add so many different aircraft models. The only downside is that the time of the IR classics is coming to an end. I was fortunate enough to enjoy an A306 ride from from FRA to IKA and back. In the future I guess it will be 333, 748, or the 388.
It would be nice to see IR becoming a big player in the middle east and compete with the ME3 and TK.
306 310 318 319 320 321 333 343 388 ATR72 733 737 738 739 743 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 77W 788 CRJ7 CRJ9 E170 F100 MD11 RJ1H
AA AB AC AF AK AZ BA DE DL EW FD FR HF HG IB IR MF KU LH LT LX OD TG TK TP UA VJ VN WN W6 YP YW
 
jbs2886
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:12 pm

Dutchy wrote:
solarflyer22 wrote:
Someone83 wrote:

Airbus aircraft contains a lot of American parts and addition US [companies] are every important customer for Airbus and Airbus' suppliers. As the US still has sanctions againts Iran, it can lead to consequences and limit the possibility for these companies to do trade in the US, if they breach the US embargo towards Iran. However, this approval enable Airbus and its suppliers to deal with Iran, without risking consequences towards doing business in the US


I agree the US shouldn't be attempting to restrict sales to Iran, Cuba, North Korea and its quite arrogant to do so but I also blame Airbus for using American content in the first place. If you look at their US subs, they aren't delivering engines. Its usually small ticket items like controllers.

Why the license is only for 17 planes makes no sense either. The Iran Deal was very explicit that airplanes were included and its 16 months since the interim deal went into effect. Good faith would have meant approving the whole thing (200 planes) but they want to hold off so they can blockfuture orders if they feel like.

I too lament the LAX "Tehrangeles" VIP flight fantasies on ANET and I'm Iranian American no less! You do realize, Iran had to essentially blackmail the US with a potential nuclear weapon in order to get aviation sanctions released? Kinda of a big deal. Flying to the USA is literally the last thing they want.


Well, if American products are the best for a certain item, or they get the best deal, why not use them. It is quite arrogant of America to use commerce to get the world dancing at their every wimp. Lot's of European countries got huge fines from the American government, just because they had a branche in the US and therefore the whole company was restricted to comply with American law, while it was perfectly legal to deal with civilian items. Fokker services for instance got a huge fine for trying to maintain the Fokker fleet in Iran, ridiculous no military items, just keeping the civilian fleet save for flying.


European countries also use sanctions, including economic sanctions. It is not a distinctly American thing (although, yes, America probably does use them more - we have our own internal debate about what extent the US should "police" the world). Sanctions are meant to be more than a military thing, too. They are meant to change actions because they are punishing on the entire country, particularly the economy. Also, all this "America is being arrogant" is old. If Airbus wants to sell planes to Iran without the US approval, they can do it by getting fines or using non-US parts. When they designed their plane and ordered US parts, they accepted the limitations on their own sales that come from incorporating US parts.
 
LJ
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:59 pm

RohanDXB wrote:
With all this good stuff happening & as markets open up, is there any chance of IR joining an alliance?

a) Is it legally possible given that there will still be some level of sanctions on the country?
b) If yes to the above, which alliance would they be a good fit for?

Skyteam has Saudia, Oneworld has QR & RJ, * has TK.

I think it would be between Skyteam & *


Yeah IR in Skyteam together with Saudia.......
 
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Polot
Posts: 10697
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:08 pm

solarflyer22 wrote:
I agree the US shouldn't be attempting to restrict sales to Iran, Cuba, North Korea and its quite arrogant to do so but I also blame Airbus for using American content in the first place. If you look at their US subs, they aren't delivering engines. Its usually small ticket items like controllers.


Those "small ticket items" can very important, and sometimes hard to source from somewhere else or replicate. Building a plane isn't easy. Look at all the trouble Comac has had with the ARJ21- and they're sourcing the engines from GE. Being that the US has been one of the dominant players in the aviation industry for over 60 years it is natural that there is a lot of vital aviation companies and knowledge based in the US.
 
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NYCRuss
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:54 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:35 pm

LJ wrote:
RohanDXB wrote:
With all this good stuff happening & as markets open up, is there any chance of IR joining an alliance?

a) Is it legally possible given that there will still be some level of sanctions on the country?
b) If yes to the above, which alliance would they be a good fit for?

Skyteam has Saudia, Oneworld has QR & RJ, * has TK.

I think it would be between Skyteam & *


Yeah IR in Skyteam together with Saudia.......


Ouch!
 
BombayFlyer
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:28 am

Dutchy wrote:
Airbus received permission to sell 17 jets to Iran from the US today. The permission is needed because of all the American made components.

http://www.nu.nl/beurs/4324999/vs-geeft ... -iran.html

Does the relevant US department (comers?) only give the permission in batches? They have ordered over 200 a/c.


An update on financing for the 17 Airbus aircraft for IR:

Iran has reached a deal with a foreign leasing company to finance the first 17 jets it plans to buy from Airbus, breaking a logjam in efforts to import aircraft following the lifting of sanctions, people familiar with the move said. The deal removes a significant hurdle to securing the first tranche of jets, following uncertainty over financing and political opposition in the United States and Iran, though the sources caution months of talking have thrown up new potential hurdles. Iranian officials declined to name the lessor involved, but industry sources said in September that Iran was in advanced talks with the United Arab Emirates' Dubai Aerospace about helping to finance the purchase.


SOURCE
_____
BombayFlyer
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:42 am

Are all of these aircraft from both Airbus and Boeing strictly for Iran Air only? Or will these be for the other Iranian airlines as well?
 
astuteman
Posts: 7151
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:46 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
solarflyer22 wrote:

I agree the US shouldn't be attempting to restrict sales to Iran, Cuba, North Korea and its quite arrogant to do so but I also blame Airbus for using American content in the first place. If you look at their US subs, they aren't delivering engines. Its usually small ticket items like controllers.

Why the license is only for 17 planes makes no sense either. The Iran Deal was very explicit that airplanes were included and its 16 months since the interim deal went into effect. Good faith would have meant approving the whole thing (200 planes) but they want to hold off so they can blockfuture orders if they feel like.

I too lament the LAX "Tehrangeles" VIP flight fantasies on ANET and I'm Iranian American no less! You do realize, Iran had to essentially blackmail the US with a potential nuclear weapon in order to get aviation sanctions released? Kinda of a big deal. Flying to the USA is literally the last thing they want.


Well, if American products are the best for a certain item, or they get the best deal, why not use them. It is quite arrogant of America to use commerce to get the world dancing at their every wimp. Lot's of European countries got huge fines from the American government, just because they had a branche in the US and therefore the whole company was restricted to comply with American law, while it was perfectly legal to deal with civilian items. Fokker services for instance got a huge fine for trying to maintain the Fokker fleet in Iran, ridiculous no military items, just keeping the civilian fleet save for flying.


European countries also use sanctions, including economic sanctions. It is not a distinctly American thing (although, yes, America probably does use them more - we have our own internal debate about what extent the US should "police" the world). Sanctions are meant to be more than a military thing, too. They are meant to change actions because they are punishing on the entire country, particularly the economy. Also, all this "America is being arrogant" is old. If Airbus wants to sell planes to Iran without the US approval, they can do it by getting fines or using non-US parts. When they designed their plane and ordered US parts, they accepted the limitations on their own sales that come from incorporating US parts.


I suspect that these "approvals" are centred around ITAR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... egulations

ITAR is quite wide reaching, and even a minor component that has a military use, or can have a military use, in the USA, may be subject to ITAR restrictions.

The solution is to source components not on the US Munitions List.

Concerns over connections between the Boeing 787 and the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber prompted Boeing to take elaborate steps cleansing the commercial jet of any military technology. The issue arose when Boeing engineers, fearing indictment and penalties, refused to sign forms declaring that the 787 was "ITAR-free." As a result, Boeing conducted extensive research on the source of technology implemented on the 787. They removed all military technology and either found a commercial source for the same technology or replaced it with technology derived from a commercial source.


I couldn't possibly comment on whether ITAR regulations might or might not be manipulated for political ends ... :)

Rgds
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:07 pm

Don't expect to see any more sales or deliveries happen after January 20th. Trump will be able to tear apart the Iran deal in his first action in office. While treaty is treaty under international law, in US law a treaty is only a treaty with advice & consent; which this piece never got. Hence, under US law it is only an executive agreement and void the moment the sitting President decides it to be.
 
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nimool
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:08 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Don't expect to see any more sales or deliveries happen after January 20th. Trump will be able to tear apart the Iran deal in his first action in office. While treaty is treaty under international law, in US law a treaty is only a treaty with advice & consent; which this piece never got. Hence, under US law it is only an executive agreement and void the moment the sitting President decides it to be.


True for boeing orderds, but i dont think this would apply to the 17 airbus orders that has granted permission from US Treasury earlier in Oct, and hopefully goes same with other airbuses
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:54 pm

nimool wrote:

True for boeing orderds, but i dont think this would apply to the 17 airbus orders that has granted permission from US Treasury earlier in Oct, and hopefully goes same with other airbuses


Those 17 will probably be in order, but future Airbus sales are unlikely. It would surprise me very much if further deliveries went ahead even from Airbus, I can't imagine Airbus selling or Iran securing financing for any deal the US government opposes. Banks are already overly careful with this entire business and they will lock down preemptively in anticipation of action from Trump.
 
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SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1906
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Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:10 pm

aviationaware wrote:
nimool wrote:

True for boeing orderds, but i dont think this would apply to the 17 airbus orders that has granted permission from US Treasury earlier in Oct, and hopefully goes same with other airbuses


Those 17 will probably be in order, but future Airbus sales are unlikely. It would surprise me very much if further deliveries went ahead even from Airbus, I can't imagine Airbus selling or Iran securing financing for any deal the US government opposes. Banks are already overly careful with this entire business and they will lock down preemptively in anticipation of action from Trump.


After his recent comments about Obamacare I would not bee too surprised if the to be President Trump has a different view on this now that he is elected.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11886
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:24 pm

So when will the first a/c be delivered? October 2016 has been come and gone.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
CX747
Posts: 6253
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Iran Air Airbus, Boeing, ATR Deliveries May Start in OCT 2016

Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:28 pm

More than likely this is going to wait until the new Administration is in place. This is not a treaty for the US but an Executive Action. More likely than not, it will be undone by Trump. If Congress had ratified it, and given their consent then it would have been a treaty. That did not occur/would not have occurred hence Obama moving on his own.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

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