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Amiga500
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:51 am

mariner wrote:
Tim Clark could probably make the A380 work on trans-Pacific, using HNL as the hub. LOL.

mariner


That... is actually a really good idea. (to me anyway)

Leisure travel around any medium/large airport on the pacific rim via a hub at Hawaii. I'm pretty sure most people would be much happier to spend a week in Hawaii than a day in Dubai!! [The stop over is a worthy holiday destination in itself - rather than being a load of large shopping centres with air-con surrounded by desert.]
 
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keesje
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:51 am

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:19 am

Amiga500 wrote:
mariner wrote:
Tim Clark could probably make the A380 work on trans-Pacific, using HNL as the hub. LOL.

mariner


That... is actually a really good idea. (to me anyway)

Leisure travel around any medium/large airport on the pacific rim via a hub at Hawaii. I'm pretty sure most people would be much happier to spend a week in Hawaii than a day in Dubai!! [The stop over is a worthy holiday destination in itself - rather than being a load of large shopping centres with air-con surrounded by desert.]

HNL is poorly located to be a "DXB of the Pacific."

keesje wrote:

I don't see what a JV would give VS that their DL JV doesn't. They could just codeshare on any nonstop that may be launched.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:58 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
VX321 wrote:
HA won't even take an A359!


They ordered the A358. Since this is not being built, they converted their order to the next best thing, the A330-800neo.


The point was that Airbus tried very strongly to get HA to convert the 358 order to 359s so they could drop the 358 from the lineup. HA refused, basically saying the 359 was too big for them, so Airbus offered them A330neos instead.
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bobnwa
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:03 pm

Are sure this is not an April 1 posted early?
 
ORDSpotter7
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:25 pm

IF Hawaiian is so heavily reliant on cargo as some here have maintained, wouldn't the 772 or 77W be a better fit?
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:48 pm

ORDSpotter7 wrote:
IF Hawaiian is so heavily reliant on cargo as some here have maintained, wouldn't the 772 or 77W be a better fit?


If they are looking for a last generation WB.. A350-1000 will lift the same amount using 20-25% less block fuel
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Aither
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:18 pm

Respects to Dunkerley to be open minded on this. That's the role of a real CEO. Many A.netters were also saying EK would fail with all these A380s. But EK has demonstrated one thing : you can almost get as much traffic as you want if you get things right.

We're in 2016, people book their flights on internet and look at all kinds of travel options and packages. When I fly transpac I've already made a stop in Hawaii. Think of all these Chinese that are making multiple destinations in Europe, they could do the same with some kind of package (let say HNL+LAS). Would the travel agencies can fill the A380 ? . From Asia there is also only one good frequency to HNL. No need to fly at silly times just for the sake of frequencies.

MSPNWA wrote:
I've seen crazier theories with the A380. I wouldn't bet on it happenening, but it's worth thinking about. Put yourself in HA's shoes. As long as they're marooned on the islands, their markets are limited, and competition is fierce. In order to grow in many markets, you must take it from the others. The A380's low costs would strip away traffic from the legacies and LCCs. They can't compete in that scenario. LAX, SFO, and maybe others aren't out of line domestically, and Asian/Australian opportunities, particularly TYO and SYD, could open up. Hawaii's demand is the high volume, low yield that large planes were meant for.


Agree and you can add LAS. HA could easily fill 350 seats on these markets with the 200 remaining seats they could sell at a killer price (like Emirates is doing). With all this traffic you can consider some hubbing even if HNL is a bit too far south. It can help to feed the west coast, open new markets etc.

I find a bit sad people are just dismissing the idea without a second thought. It would be more interesting to figure out how actually HA could make the A380 or 747s work because with all the moves on the transpacific I think HA will need to come with some innovative ideas if they really want to develop their Asian network. And they must do that sooner than later.
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:48 pm

Aither wrote:
HA could easily fill 350 seats on these markets with the 200 remaining seats they could sell at a killer price (like Emirates is doing).


That is not exactly how seat pricing works. Everyone will just hold purchasing those 350 seats at "normal" prices and wait until they can get one of those seats at a "killer" price, resulting in you having to discount those "normal" price seats to get them filled. If you sell those killer seats first then everyone who needed to go to Hawaii/planned to go at "normal" prices will take them, and the "normal" seat prices left over won't stimulate people who weren't planning to go Hawaii...resulting in you discounting them to help fill.

Emirates fills them because they are moving large volumes of people to/from multiple destinations relying on the strength of their hub. They are not relying on O&D traffic (which LAS-HNL would mostly be) to fill most of their A380s.
 
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IslandRob
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:16 pm

b747400erf wrote:
And I am "looking" at dating Angelina Jolie.

Difference is, there's a remote chance you'll get her. -ir
If you wrote me off, I'd understand it
'Cause I've been on some other planet
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scbriml
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:25 pm

IslandRob wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
And I am "looking" at dating Angelina Jolie.

Difference is, there's a remote chance you'll get her. -ir


Meh, in aviation terms, she's a hangar queen (high maintenance!)

An A380 in HA's colours would look pretty good, but I think the chances of seeing it are pretty slim.
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SonOfABeech
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:44 pm

Maybe they're literally looking at A380s, when they are sharing tarmac space with one of them at LAX/SFO/JFK
 
phlwok
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:44 pm

Someone will eventually fly Hawaii-Europe and make money at it. That day may not be soon, but it would be in Hawaiian's best interests to be at or near the lead on that rather than have to deal with a competitor getting entrenched first.
 
Aither
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:49 pm

Polot wrote:
Aither wrote:
HA could easily fill 350 seats on these markets with the 200 remaining seats they could sell at a killer price (like Emirates is doing).


That is not exactly how seat pricing works. Everyone will just hold purchasing those 350 seats at "normal" prices and wait until they can get one of those seats at a "killer" price, resulting in you having to discount those "normal" price seats to get them filled. If you sell those killer seats first then everyone who needed to go to Hawaii/planned to go at "normal" prices will take them, and the "normal" seat prices left over won't stimulate people who weren't planning to go Hawaii...resulting in you discounting them to help fill.

Emirates fills them because they are moving large volumes of people to/from multiple destinations relying on the strength of their hub. They are not relying on O&D traffic (which LAS-HNL would mostly be) to fill most of their A380s.


I agree. I think the "normal price" should be offered mostly for the local demand (except some for some special events) but use the discounted fares only to stimulate connecting / tour operators. HA could easily get 2% or 3% of large O&D transpac markets. That does not seem much but let say they open PVG, HKG, and maybe a few other destinations in particular from China you can *easily* get 200 pax connecting on 3 or 4 weekly A380s to JFK and LAS. Again with Internet people look at all kind of options and let's face it : going to LAS, with a 2 or 3 days stop in HNL, for an affordable price & good comfort can be extremely attractive and only HA can do that. It should not be that risky with a few second hand A380s or through some lease. On some markets the biggest risk is to not be enough ambitious.
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:00 pm

Aither wrote:
Polot wrote:
Aither wrote:
HA could easily fill 350 seats on these markets with the 200 remaining seats they could sell at a killer price (like Emirates is doing).


That is not exactly how seat pricing works. Everyone will just hold purchasing those 350 seats at "normal" prices and wait until they can get one of those seats at a "killer" price, resulting in you having to discount those "normal" price seats to get them filled. If you sell those killer seats first then everyone who needed to go to Hawaii/planned to go at "normal" prices will take them, and the "normal" seat prices left over won't stimulate people who weren't planning to go Hawaii...resulting in you discounting them to help fill.

Emirates fills them because they are moving large volumes of people to/from multiple destinations relying on the strength of their hub. They are not relying on O&D traffic (which LAS-HNL would mostly be) to fill most of their A380s.


I agree. I think the "normal price" should be offered mostly for the local demand (except some for some special events) but use the discounted fares only to stimulate connecting / tour operators. HA could easily get 2% or 3% of large O&D transpac markets. That does not seem much but let say they open PVG, HKG, and maybe a few other destinations in particular from China you can *easily* get 200 pax connecting on 3 or 4 weekly A380s to JFK and LAS. Again with Internet people look at all kind of options and let's face it : going to LAS, with a 2 or 3 days stop in HNL, for an affordable price & good comfort can be extremely attractive and only HA can do that. It should not be that risky with a few second hand A380s or through some lease. On some markets the biggest risk is to not be enough ambitious.


The problem is that contrary to popular belief HNL is not really ideally located for that traffic flow, it is just too far south. Going to PVG, for example, from JFK via HNL is over 2500 mi longer than the nonstop, and 1000 mi longer than going via LAX. Getting to PVG from LAS is also about 1000 mi longer via HNL than via LAX. Which means HA would have to discount heavily to attract passengers over nonstops and other shorter connection opportunities. Their cost base isn't that low. Having an extended layover in Hawaii would be amazing, but with the limited time off most Americans get that opportunity is unrealistic and not really a selling point.

Hawaii is best situated for Australia/NZ-US traffic, but there is still plenty of nonstop competition in that market, and Hawaii isn't close enough to Asia to allow for extensive use of cheaper/less costly aircraft like narrowbodies over the competition while requiring a costly widebody for most points east of the Rocky mountains. That is why HA's Asia operations is still heavily targeted towards Asians vacationing in Hawaii, and not as a hub to get them across the US (although obviously they won't stop someone from doing so).
 
Amiga500
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:23 pm

Polot wrote:
The problem is that contrary to popular belief HNL is not really ideally located for that traffic flow, it is just too far south.


You sure? Myself and the missus are looking at heading South Africa for a few weeks next summer.

DUB-JNB is roughly 5,900 miles.

It is cheaper for us to go via Dubai (7,400 miles) than the leg from LHR-JNB (5,600 miles) - and one would imagine LHR-JNB is not a small route.


Thus, I wonder how far out of the road is too far out of the road? Emirates, it seems, can generate tremendous economies of scale with their single-point hub - Hawaiian **could** have the potential to do something similar. Their disadvantage is of course, that they would not have the same amount of short-and mid-range flights as the ME3.


Its about 5,800 miles from San Fran to Beijing direct.
Its 2,400+5,000 when routing through Hawaii.
That's almost identical to the comparison I have given above for LHR-JNB.
Last edited by Amiga500 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
COEWR787
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:30 pm

Unlikely to happen. but if the incredible happens then at least trips to Hawaii will become incredibly cheap on the transport part of it since they will have to drop fares seriously to fill those planes. :)
 
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:34 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Polot wrote:
The problem is that contrary to popular belief HNL is not really ideally located for that traffic flow, it is just too far south.


You sure? Myself and the missus are looking at heading South Africa for a few weeks next summer.

DUB-JNB is roughly 5,900 miles.

It is cheaper for us to go via Dubai (7,400 miles) than the leg from LHR-JNB (5,600 miles) - and one would imagine LHR-JNB is not a small route.


Ah but DXB is already a well established intercontinental hub with a well established intercontinental airline. EK didn't grow on the back of routes like LHR-DXB-JNB, they grew on Europe-Australia/Southeast Asia/Indian subcontinent (where DXB is a logical stopping point) and spread their wings and international reputation from there.

HA would have to establish themselves against preexisting and better located hubs such as NRT/ICN/SFO/LAX/SEA/ORD/DTW, all of which have extensive flight options across Asia/the US, with similar costs.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:51 pm

Doesn't the A330NEO deliver next year? Seems sort of odd they don't have firm enough stats on its capabilities on whether or not to launch certain routes with it.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:12 pm

Polot wrote:
Ah but DXB is already a well established intercontinental hub with a well established intercontinental airline.


So Hawaii isn't too far south?


Emirates are able to make the A380 work - indeed its probably central to its success - and have beat out established competitors in the process.

Tim Clark is on record wondering why others can't make it work. Perhaps Hawaiian are looking at themselves and wondering, "can we"? Their competitors aren't any different to what EK took on and beat in the early 2000s. But, I guess Hawaiian would need to get up and walking before they can run - that applies to fleet gauge as well as fleet numbers.

Image
 
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Polot
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:24 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Ah but DXB is already a well established intercontinental hub with a well established intercontinental airline.


So Hawaii isn't too far south?

No, it is still too far south. You completely missed or ignored my point. DXB is in a location with enough logical connections that EK could build up to such a scale that people are willing to fly them on even sub optimal routes due to loyalty, reputation, etc. They can afford discounting on suboptimal routes because they have plenty of routes where DXB is a pretty optimal connecting point.

That is not the case with Hawaii. Australia/NZ-US/Canada is really the only place that it is ideally located for. That market is not big enough to build up a huge intercontinental hub and reputation, and can be flown nonstop (unlike say UK-Australia). Any connection east of the Rockies require HA to use a more expensive widebody. A cheaper (to buy, own, and operate) narrowbody can get you basically anywhere in the US/Canada from SFO/LAX. So HA would have to build basically their entire network around suboptimal routings built mostly around widebodies.

Which means you have to discount- you even admit that it is cheaper for you to fly via DXB than LHR. EK is using favorable pricing to make up for the unfavorable routing. Except there is one teeny tiny problem with that: HA's costs are not significantly lower than the competition. Hawaii is an expensive place to live and be based at. Hawaii doesn't not enjoy favorable tax and employment rules over the competition like Dubai does. EK doesn't have to worry about things like unions. FA sticking around too long costing you more money? Fire her- EK doesn't have to worry about things such as age discrimination. HA is bound to the exact same rules and laws that UA/DL/AA are.

HA also shares the exact same bilaterals as them too. Want to expand in China? Well better hope there are some free frequencies available, and that UA/DL/AA won't fight HA for them. EK only really has to worry about EY when it comes to having to share restricted frequencies.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:45 pm

Japan?
 
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PW100
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:09 pm

HA looking at A380??? Surely management doing their homework to better understand what they will be facing in a couple of years when ANA (or what ever subsidiary they'll be using) start sending A380 to HNL.

Perhaps they come to the conclusion that if the price is right, they would need a couple for themselves to compete? And then I woke up . . . :-)
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indcwby
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:28 pm

Slightly off topic but.......

It beats flying UA's Cattle Car 772...
Image
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QXAS
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:07 pm

An HA 788 order is more realistic. And that is something I see as never happening. What Dunkerley should do is follow their Atlantic mirror operation and buy 752s so I can have my fresh Hawaiian fish ;)
 
32andBelow
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:09 pm

indcwby wrote:
Slightly off topic but.......

It beats flying UA's Cattle Car 772...
Image

How exactly. Economy is economy is economy
 
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mariner
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:33 pm

Polot wrote:
Ah but DXB is already a well established intercontinental hub with a well established intercontinental airline. EK didn't grow on the back of routes like LHR-DXB-JNB, they grew on Europe-Australia/Southeast Asia/Indian subcontinent (where DXB is a logical stopping point) and spread their wings and international reputation from there.


With the exception of Australia, virtually all of Emirates routes Europe to to the east are flown non-stop from Europe and any one of those routes is longer with a stop than without one - LOL.

Yet many Europeans collectively decided that a one-stop at DXB was an acceptable idea. Price helped, of course, but there's more to it than price.

Polot wrote:
HA would have to establish themselves against preexisting and better located hubs such as NRT/ICN/SFO/LAX/SEA/ORD/DTW, all of which have extensive flight options across Asia/the US, with similar costs.


Hawaiian seems to be headed down that road already - as Air New Zealand is at AKL, which is much further "out of the way" than HNL. For most of my life, Air NZ was considered an end-of-line carrier, and the idea of AKL as a genuine Pacific Rim hub is relatively recent - although that possibility has always been there.

Most people here seem to see Hawaiian as an end-of-line carrier - that Hawaii is the destination and that's it - but Hawaii has always been a fairly natural cross-roads, at least for the Pacific Rim.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Hawaiian becomes another Emirates or that HNL becomes another DXB. Although always to remember that DXB was a sand-pit with foul summer temperatures when Emirates began, not the city it is now, but I still wouldn't stopover there in August whereas I'll take a stopover in Hawaii any time.

It's so easy to say "no" - any a.netter can and does bash almost any idea, especially if it involves the A380, and while I doubt that this will happen - I doubt Hawaiian will get the A380 - I fully understand why Mr. Dunkerly didn't simply slam the door on the discussion.

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77H
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:28 pm

ORDSpotter7 wrote:
IF Hawaiian is so heavily reliant on cargo as some here have maintained, wouldn't the 772 or 77W be a better fit?


In one of my posts I mentioned that cargo is important to HA, I never said they were reliant on it by any means. Very few if any commercial carriers make aircraft purchasing decisions based on cargo, though I am sure it is a factor to an extent.

My point in bringing up cargo was that the 332 is a good people hauler (in HA config) is has good range, and carries ample amounts of cargo. The 380 is far too big or nearly all markets HA flies to and is a poor plane for cargo.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:32 pm

indcwby wrote:
Slightly off topic but.......

It beats flying UA's Cattle Car 772...
Image


IMO UA's Hawaii Config 772's are the most comfortable in the fleet in E/E+. One look at the seat map of HA's 332 will show the aircraft is similarly as dense.
 
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csturdiv
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:13 pm

Why is everybody assuming the A380s would be used for international or mainland flying? It could be a B717 replacement.
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sunking737
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:17 pm

Maybe a pineapple freighter....
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racercoup
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:32 pm

Why would Airbus want to sell another A380? They will only lose more money building it?
 
T prop
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:57 am

Article in the local paper on Hawaiian and thier plans. Dunkerly also talks about future prospects of being taken over.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/09/2 ... to-europe/
 
Aither
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:05 am

Polot wrote:

The problem is that contrary to popular belief HNL is not really ideally located for that traffic flow, it is just too far south. Going to PVG, for example, from JFK via HNL is over 2500 mi longer than the nonstop, and 1000 mi longer than going via LAX. Getting to PVG from LAS is also about 1000 mi longer via HNL than via LAX. Which means HA would have to discount heavily to attract passengers over nonstops and other shorter connection opportunities. Their cost base isn't that low. Having an extended layover in Hawaii would be amazing, but with the limited time off most Americans get that opportunity is unrealistic and not really a selling point.

Hawaii is best situated for Australia/NZ-US traffic, but there is still plenty of nonstop competition in that market, and Hawaii isn't close enough to Asia to allow for extensive use of cheaper/less costly aircraft like narrowbodies over the competition while requiring a costly widebody for most points east of the Rocky mountains. That is why HA's Asia operations is still heavily targeted towards Asians vacationing in Hawaii, and not as a hub to get them across the US (although obviously they won't stop someone from doing so).


The market of EK vs. HA is different, the costs are different, but the way they could make a business out of A380s can be similar. We should keep in mind that 80% of the transpac traffic is going to be Asian people with most being tourists. People love Hawaii, love California, and HA can offer that on a single trip and they are the only one who can do that. They already have market shares above 4% on a market like Seoul-LAX. People just go there a couple of days to take a few pictures of Pearl harbor, Hawaii 5-0 places and restaurant dishes. That's the way we travel and it's becoming even worse since someone has invented the selfie stick. With the upcoming A320 neos they will offer more destinations to the US, that's going to add exponentially more O&Ds as they develop in parallel their Asian network. It's not going to be Emirates, but I would not be shocked if the A380 could work soon for them on 3 or 4 routes. At least it makes sense they are evaluating this. They are lucky to have an open minded CEO, it's becoming something rare.
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coolian2
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:10 am

Amiga500 wrote:
mariner wrote:
Tim Clark could probably make the A380 work on trans-Pacific, using HNL as the hub. LOL.

mariner


That... is actually a really good idea. (to me anyway)

Leisure travel around any medium/large airport on the pacific rim via a hub at Hawaii. I'm pretty sure most people would be much happier to spend a week in Hawaii than a day in Dubai!! [The stop over is a worthy holiday destination in itself - rather than being a load of large shopping centres with air-con surrounded by desert.]

I agree with this and Fiji Airways do a bit of this in Nadi. Honolulu has a bit further to go, on flight #1, but it means you can get access to a hell of a lot of cities.

One stop AKL-SEA and I can wander around an open air connection airport in a t-shirt, shorts and sunglasses? Get in, that's amazing.

Too lazy to go to Great Circle....how far is PER-HNL?
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Nouflyer
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:13 am

In the last fortnight it has become clear that Singapore Airlines is going to be returning 4 or 5 A380's over the next couple of years.

They will then either be converted to freighters or made available at an incredible price.

Hawaiian could basically use three of them to operate daily services to Los Angeles, Sydney and Tokyo and in doing so free up five A330's for other routes. These are leisure routes on which no greater frequency than daily is required.

A very comfortable high density configuration could be 36 International Business / 530 Economy.

If the price is right, it really isn't that outlandish.
 
aklrno
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:11 am

jagraham wrote:
HNL has two 12000 foot runways. The A380 can certainly land and takeoff at HNL. Gates . . ?

So if they can use HNL, what is the alternate? Kona and Hilo have long runways, but can they take the weight? Is there another?
 
hz747300
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:13 pm

Makes no sense. Unless they become a DXB of the Pacific connecting the Americas to the Asia region, and dump seats on the routes. Hey, sure it's easier to fly direct SEA-HND, but if I go via HNL I can spend a couple of days clubbing and chasing Chinese hookers and fly r/t for less than $500! So, maybe it could be a lot like Dubai...

Doesn't seem likely. The SQ ones should be cheap and available soon.
Keep on truckin'...
 
32andBelow
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:58 pm

If you wanted a DXB of the pacific it should be in anchorage. Anchorage was literally built for it and is the only US airport where you can transit without clearing. But there's no business case for it. So no one is doing it.
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 2774
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:17 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Maybe a pineapple freighter....


To import them from the Philippines? There's not much pineapple production in Hawaii anymore.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:55 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
I feel like they would consider the A350 or even 777 way before the A380. This title is nothing more than propaganda for a lagging assembly line...


FFS did you even read the article?! There was no-one from Airbus quoted or referenced in the article so why are you slighting them for propaganda?

Secondly, if you knew anything about HA, you'd know that they'd had the A350 on order already but, with Airbus' reticence to go ahead with the -800, HA moved their order to the A330-800neo.

The A380, whether second-hand or new, almost certainly has no place in the HA fleet but without due diligence how are they to be certain?


1) You've obviously never heard of the media being fed information. Coca-Cola wasn't usually quoted in stories that said nothing was wrong with sugar. I'm not saying this is the case here, but someone related to this article obviously has a hard-on for the A380. It's certainly possible someone at Airbus sent out a text saying "hey, look, someone still cares about the A380."
2) Yes, that's why I mentioned it.
3) I think an also likely scenario is that the CEO is using this as a tactic to play Airbus.
4) Either way, I could be wrong, but I don't put a lot of credence to this story.
Last edited by flyfresno on Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
indcwby
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:59 pm

77H wrote:
indcwby wrote:
Slightly off topic but.......

It beats flying UA's Cattle Car 772...
Image


IMO UA's Hawaii Config 772's are the most comfortable in the fleet in E/E+. One look at the seat map of HA's 332 will show the aircraft is similarly as dense.


When it was originally created, sure. Now, not so much. Had 3 individuals who work out of Hawaii tell me the aircraft's interior is way dated and not comfortable at all. I agree that economics play a part. But UA flies a 764ER from EWR - HNL which is better interior wise. Probably dreaming, but back in the old days, a trip to Hawaii meant relaxing vacation trip.
A319, A320, A330, A340, B717, B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, CRJ7, DC10, MD88, MD11, E145, E175
"Always remember that you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands."
 
weekendppl
Posts: 106
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:38 pm

indcwby wrote:
Slightly off topic but.......

It beats flying UA's Cattle Car 772...
Image


And that's before they convert all the Hawaii 772s to 3-4-3 coach.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:39 pm

I'm surprised (or not really as this is dump on the A380 territory) that nobody is seriously discussing Asia-Pacific in general.

What about emerging Chinese traffic? Hawaiian could be looking west for their route growth and considering adding volume to trunk markets where they see growing wealth and connectivity to be potential for the carrier. Combining multiple flights at desirable times into one A380 would work. Atlantic traffic going east leaves the USA to fly overnight as it's desirable for the passenger, so Asian routes to Hawaii on a big Bus could offer volume at lower cost to HA and the best timings for the passengers.
 
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Polot
Posts: 11708
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Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:56 pm

Channex757 wrote:
What about emerging Chinese traffic? Hawaiian could be looking west for their route growth and considering adding volume to trunk markets where they see growing wealth and connectivity to be potential for the carrier.

HA is locked out of adding more flights to trunk Chinese destinations, and the traffic just isn't there from the secondary destinations.
Channex757 wrote:
Combining multiple flights at desirable times into one A380 would work.

Most of HA's Asia flights are 1x daily. It is a big step to go from the A332 directly to the A380 (which would probably seat 600-650+ people in HA's configuration). This is an airline that has never even committed to an A333/A339/A359 or larger. Their focus on Asia has not been a total runaway success so far.
 
cloudboy
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:18 pm

77H wrote:
Not most Hawaii traffic however.


While frequency is not as important on a leisure market as a business market, leisure travelers do care about schedule and frequency. Hotel check in times, an extra few hours at the beach before returning home easily factor in to a leisure travelers decision. If frequency was not a factor, airlines like AA, DL and UA would replace the 3-4 flights a day between the West Coast and HNL with 1-2 wide body's. DL and UA both have enough domestic WB's to accomplish this.[/quote]

Most leisure travelers looking at booking tickets don't have a clue how many flights an airline has. All they see is the flights listed by order of price and then departure time. If an airline has 3 flights but only one has cheap tickets, they will only see that one flight.

One possible thought, though I agree it is far fetched... could B6 and HA see that the merger between AS and VX be a threat, and decide to build a stronger codeshare route from the east coast to Hawaii, building on the JFK (or even BOS) hub?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:47 pm

Polot wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
HA is locked out of adding more flights to trunk Chinese destinations, and the traffic just isn't there from the secondary destinations.


Given the rate at which the smaller Chinese airlines are adding long-haul service from the secondary cities I think that's a bold statement.

You could have knocked me down with a feather when Tianjin Airlines announced TSN/CKG-AKL, for example, and now I see Chengdu Airlines has CTU-AKL on the list.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11708
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:58 pm

mariner wrote:
Polot wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
HA is locked out of adding more flights to trunk Chinese destinations, and the traffic just isn't there from the secondary destinations.


Given the rate at which the smaller Chinese airlines are adding long-haul service from the secondary cities I think that's a bold statement.

You could have knocked me down with a feather when Tianjin Airlines announced TSN/CKG-AKL, for example, and now I see Chengdu Airlines has CTU-AKL on the list.

mariner


Yes, and how many of those are operating with high density A380s? How profitable are these services that they have been adding? HA doesn't have the luxury of being partially owned by the government like many of those smaller Chinese carriers are.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:27 pm

Polot wrote:
Yes, and how many of those are operating with high density A380s? How profitable are these services that they have been adding? HA doesn't have the luxury of being partially owned by the government like many of those smaller Chinese carriers are.


I didn't think that was your point, nor would I imagine Hawaiian starting HNL-CTU with A380's if it was - LOL. My point was only that the market from secondary Chinese cities seems to be a lot healthier than you suggest.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
b6sea
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:44 pm

Re: Hawaiian looking at A380

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:46 am

Even if HA could make an Emirates-style operation work - and it's fun to think about regardless of the likelihood of it actually working, so thanks for that - isn't there a pretty significant space problem at HNL either now or upcoming? I forget if it's gate space or just building space... I imagine the cost of constructing anything on Oahu is much higher than on the mainland, so it seems like that's another thing that the "EK of the Pacific" plan has against it because you'd need a monster of a terminal to accommodate all that capacity, I would imagine.

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