Air Canada Rouge will increase 767 fleet size by more than 25% in 2017. Additional seasonal destinations being rumored in online forums include Vienna (VIE) and Belgrade (BEG). What do you think will be new seasonal destinations for RV in Europe for 2017?

I'm surprised they don't serve BHX or BFS. At one time, BFS had quite a few flights per week to Canada with Zoom, TCX and some others I believe

Not Rouge, but Air Canada (mainline) is making MAD year-round this winter (instead of seasonal). Are there any other European destinations affected?

Apparently Vancouver-Manchester UK from April 2017 And an extended season on Toronto.

I would also expect something new to Italy out of YYZ/YUL, such as NAP/PSA.
Nice addition would be YVR-FCO too

I'd love them to add YUL-DUB to the current YYZ & YVR flights. DUB-YUL is currently only once weekly on TS

LIRF wrote:

I would also expect something new to Italy out of YYZ/YUL, such as NAP/PSA.
Nice addition would be YVR-FCO too

It will be interesting to see if Qatar will guide Meridiana to go after those routes.

fly2moon wrote:

LIRF wrote:

I would also expect something new to Italy out of YYZ/YUL, such as NAP/PSA.
Nice addition would be YVR-FCO too

It will be interesting to see if Qatar will guide Meridiana to go after those routes.

I don't know what they are planning to do with IG, honestly I guess nothing important across the Pond apart from mantaining the historical JFK to Naples/Palermo links.
Back to RV I was wondering if their 763s are capable of reaching Rome from Vancouver.

LIRF wrote:

Back to RV I was wondering if their 763s are capable of reaching Rome from Vancouver.

Yes, it is a slightly less distance as the often flown YYZ-TLV.

With the success of GLA-YYZ and proven links and record of GLA-YVR, I wonder if that could be a good route. The GLA- Canada market had really blossomed again with WestJet, ACr, and TS all seemingly do ok on their core routes. I think TS upgrading GLA to even more A330s on YYZ route next year.

There was a healty load factor on the YYZ-HAM route, served by TSC over quite a time.
2nd largest city in Germany only nonstop connection to NA is a 767 to EWR.

Does anyone know where Rouge is sourcing its 5 "new" 763s due to be delivered next year? I cannot believe it will be from Mainline as Mainline only has dinosaurs left that wouldn't be worth the cost of converting to Rouge for 1-2-3 years usage. All i can see in the system is one coming off lease at LATAM, 3 @ ANZ to be retired, 2 @ Shanghai Airlines and maybe a couple @ Ethiopian coming off lease but not much else in the second hand market of relatively newer 763s.
Thanks
A

maybe they could try something like YYZ-CAI.

I can see from YYZ: VIE, HAM, BHX
From YUL: MRS, LIS
From YVR: MAN, LGW

longhauler wrote:

LIRF wrote:

Back to RV I was wondering if their 763s are capable of reaching Rome from Vancouver.

Yes, it is a slightly less distance as the often flown YYZ-TLV.

That's right but AC mainline means 211 seats on the 763 vs 282 of Rouge.

Thomaas wrote:

I can see from YYZ: VIE, HAM, BHX
From YUL: MRS, LIS
From YVR: MAN, LGW

Rouge is far more aggressive with expansion further east in Europe. They were not afraid to double down against Air Transat in Prague, Budapest and Athens and go against alliance partner LOT on YYZ-WAW. Rouge wide body growth is not expected to be matched by Air Transat so RV can cover most if not all of TS Euro destinations from YYZ, and then some.

Bucharest and Belgrade are two examples of those unserved markets. With A310 retirement TAROM doesn’t have fleet for long haul and with Air Serbia focus on JFK and reported upcoming PEK, chatter about new RV destinations further east might be true.

LIRF wrote:

longhauler wrote:

That's right but AC mainline means 211 seats on the 763 vs 282 of Rouge.

When I flew TLV-YYZ in the B767, we often carried more than 10,000 Kgs of cargo. And, being a B767, it didn't even grunt. The extra 69 passengers on Rouge, (6900 Kgs) won't be an issue. (Only 280 seats are sold on overseas flights.)

If cargo is to be carried from FCO to YVR, it will be routed through YYZ or YUL. (Cargo doesn't care whether the flight is non-stop).

Eirules wrote:

I'd love them to add YUL-DUB to the current YYZ & YVR flights. DUB-YUL is currently only once weekly on TS

If EI don't launch this for S17 this has to be an obvious add.

Any chance of YYZ-TXL 3 weekly summer service ?

Slightly OT,
With RV's expansion, I wonder if AC mainline's A330 will find a new home at RV when they're retired, although AC seems to have trouble getting rid of them anytime soon due to how good they're preforming...

leyland1989 wrote:

Slightly OT,
With RV's expansion, I wonder if AC mainline's A330 will find a new home at RV when they're retired, although AC seems to have trouble getting rid of them anytime soon due to how good they're preforming...

Not likely at this point as Air Canada Rouge is approaching limit of 50 planes, but there is interest in expanding according to this source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-profit-tops-estimates/article31197873/

fly2moon wrote:

leyland1989 wrote:

Slightly OT,
With RV's expansion, I wonder if AC mainline's A330 will find a new home at RV when they're retired, although AC seems to have trouble getting rid of them anytime soon due to how good they're preforming...

Not likely at this point as Air Canada Rouge is approaching limit of 50 planes, but there is interest in expanding according to this source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-profit-tops-estimates/article31197873/

Not likely at this point as AC won't let the A330 go anytime soon as well..
but looking into the next 10 years, some 767 are pretty used up (both cycles and age)
Perhaps they can spare some quota for the A330 to increase capacity?

leyland1989 wrote:

fly2moon wrote:

leyland1989 wrote:

Slightly OT,
With RV's expansion, I wonder if AC mainline's A330 will find a new home at RV when they're retired, although AC seems to have trouble getting rid of them anytime soon due to how good they're preforming...

Not likely at this point as Air Canada Rouge is approaching limit of 50 planes, but there is interest in expanding according to this source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-profit-tops-estimates/article31197873/

Not likely at this point as AC won't let the A330 go anytime soon as well..
but looking into the next 10 years, some 767 are pretty used up (both cycles and age)
Perhaps they can spare some quota for the A330 to increase capacity?

RV cannot add a different widebody type until the initial 37 B787s are delivered, I'm guessing the 8 B788s are more likely to go to RV instead of the 330s...

Thomaas wrote:

I can see from YYZ: VIE, HAM, BHX
From YUL: MRS, LIS
From YVR: MAN, LGW

I'd expect RV to get a lot more aggressive against TS on the YUL-France market. So not only MRS but potentially BOD, NTE, TLS. I'd also wager that BSL/MLH would be a possibility.

Is YYZ-BHX about to be announced?

The only destination I'd like the to fly is the Mohave desert one way!

I'm skeptical, due to the politics involved, and it's a bit passed Europe, but i keep hearing rumors of YUL-BEY.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1064

YUL-ALG/MRS
YYZ-TXL
YVR-NGO

Thenoflyzone wrote:

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1064

YUL-ALG/MRS
YYZ-TXL
YVR-NGO

Glad to see AC is making a push for the growing North African market out of YUL! Perhaps we could see 5X weekly & TUN in 2018?

YYZ-TXL seems like a very peculiar move with RV. The BER market is transforming & catching up with the rest of Germany quickly. Having spent much time in Berlin myself, I am often amazed at the progress & the rate of inflation the city has been seeing. Not as cheap to live in Berlin as it once was (especially in prenz lauerberg). Could it not have supported a mainline 767? If not now, then certainly in the coming future.

"Glad to see AC is making a push for the growing North African market out of YUL"

There's also YUL-CMN on AC rouge.

blackbox67 wrote:

There was a healty load factor on the YYZ-HAM route, served by TSC over quite a time.
2nd largest city in Germany only nonstop connection to NA is a 767 to EWR.

Do you know what the load was on that route? Also why did Air Transat stop the route? It would be nice having a different option to get to HAM from NA other then flying with UA.

lesfalls wrote:

blackbox67 wrote:

There was a healty load factor on the YYZ-HAM route, served by TSC over quite a time.
2nd largest city in Germany only nonstop connection to NA is a 767 to EWR.

Do you know what the load was on that route? Also why did Air Transat stop the route? It would be nice having a different option to get to HAM from NA other then flying with UA.

Air Transat stuffs their 310 and 330 with 9-abreast in economy (while the vast majority of 330/340 operators go 8-abreast). If you think 3-4-3 on a 777 is bad, you should really see this sardine can.

a380787 wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

blackbox67 wrote:

There was a healty load factor on the YYZ-HAM route, served by TSC over quite a time.
2nd largest city in Germany only nonstop connection to NA is a 767 to EWR.

Do you know what the load was on that route? Also why did Air Transat stop the route? It would be nice having a different option to get to HAM from NA other then flying with UA.

Air Transat stuffs their 310 and 330 with 9-abreast in economy (while the vast majority of 330/340 operators go 8-abreast). If you think 3-4-3 on a 777 is bad, you should really see this sardine can.

I have flown DYs 787 three times which has 9-abreast seating and I didn't feel the difference comparison to 8-abreast seating. All I really care about is that the ticket is cheap/reasonably priced.

lesfalls wrote:

a380787 wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

Do you know what the load was on that route? Also why did Air Transat stop the route? It would be nice having a different option to get to HAM from NA other then flying with UA.

Air Transat stuffs their 310 and 330 with 9-abreast in economy (while the vast majority of 330/340 operators go 8-abreast). If you think 3-4-3 on a 777 is bad, you should really see this sardine can.

I have flown DYs 787 three times which has 9-abreast seating and I didn't feel the difference comparison to 8-abreast seating. All I really care about is that the ticket is cheap/reasonably priced.

DY is a 787. Transat is a 330. There's a major difference in seat width, and by extension, seat comfort (or in this case, the lack of).

a380787 wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

a380787 wrote:

Air Transat stuffs their 310 and 330 with 9-abreast in economy (while the vast majority of 330/340 operators go 8-abreast). If you think 3-4-3 on a 777 is bad, you should really see this sardine can.

I have flown DYs 787 three times which has 9-abreast seating and I didn't feel the difference comparison to 8-abreast seating. All I really care about is that the ticket is cheap/reasonably priced.

DY is a 787. Transat is a 330. There's a major difference in seat width, and by extension, seat comfort (or in this case, the lack of).

Ah my mistake. Still I don't care on how the config is. I seriously don't feel a difference.

it's impressive that no other operator besides UA can make HAM work. I think AC would definitely be the next to give it a shot

LIRF wrote:

I would also expect something new to Italy out of YYZ/YUL, such as NAP/PSA.
Nice addition would be YVR-FCO too

Especially with the lack of West Coast USA flights to Italy.......a bit ironic since neither AZ/UA are considering SFO-FCO, where there is a big market. Could be a good alternative connection to what's out there. YVR-FCO especially makes sense.

a380787 wrote:

Air Transat stuffs their 310 and 330 with 9-abreast in economy (while the vast majority of 330/340 operators go 8-abreast). If you think 3-4-3 on a 777 is bad, you should really see this sardine can.

However TS offsets their 9-abreast A310/330 seating, which virtually no full-service carriers have ever operated, with somewhat better than average seat pitch of 32 or 33 inches, compared to the more usual 31 inches on most scheduled carriers these days.

With them already serving MAN from YYZ and seemingly competing with TS well, i'd like to see them try YVR as well. YUL would also be a bonus but the way Atlantic expansion at MAN is going I think it could support it. Perhaps with the YYZ switching to mainline, which it did for a month this summer.

User001 wrote:

Apparently Vancouver-Manchester UK from April 2017 And an extended season on Toronto.

I was expecting YVR-MAN to be announced?

I would love to AC back in DUS even if served by Rouge. YYZ-DUS would be optimal.

n272wa wrote:

User001 wrote:

Apparently Vancouver-Manchester UK from April 2017 And an extended season on Toronto.

I was expecting YVR-MAN to be announced?

I don't think AC or Rouge have yet completed their announcements. Obviously until they do, nothing is confirmed.

AC have not announced all new routes yet. At least 4 new B767 due and announcements so far only account for just about 2 and a half aircraft.

I'm sure this has been mentioned numerous times already....where is Rouge getting their 767s? Are they all from AC or are they buying them on their own on the used plane market?

I'm still hoping for YUL-DUB

No updates for YHZ?

Currently AC mainline has just the daily AC860/861 YHZ-LHR.

To connect to Rouge looks like YHZ pax need to fly through YYZ or YUL.

cgnnrw wrote:

I'm sure this has been mentioned numerous times already....where is Rouge getting their 767s? Are they all from AC or are they buying them on their own on the used plane market?

Except for the AC mainline 763s transferred to Rouge, I think all the others are leased. Four are ex-Hawaiian. I think they're the newest, dating from 2002/2003. Others had a variety of previous operators including a couple with LAN and at least one with Air Seychelles and then Kenya Airways.

All remaining AC mainline 763s are ex-CP aircraft, the oldest aircraft in the AC mainline fleet. I doubt any of those will be transferred to Rouge.

Freshside3 wrote:

LIRF wrote:

I would also expect something new to Italy out of YYZ/YUL, such as NAP/PSA.
Nice addition would be YVR-FCO too

Especially with the lack of West Coast USA flights to Italy.......a bit ironic since neither AZ/UA are considering SFO-FCO, where there is a big market. Could be a good alternative connection to what's out there. YVR-FCO especially makes sense.

AZ said they would launch FCO-SFO in 2017. DY is also looking at FCO-OAK.

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

Does anyone know where Rouge is sourcing its 5 "new" 763s due to be delivered next year? I cannot believe it will be from Mainline as Mainline only has dinosaurs left that wouldn't be worth the cost of converting to Rouge for 1-2-3 years usage. All i can see in the system is one coming off lease at LATAM, 3 @ ANZ to be retired, 2 @ Shanghai Airlines and maybe a couple @ Ethiopian coming off lease but not much else in the second hand market of relatively newer 763s.
Thanks
A

I think the 3x reaming 763 will head to Icelandic Air, they already have 2x ex NZ 763 in service and they just took 2x more in the recent months to be be converted.

They are all pretty old though, more likely to become coke cans.
ZK-NCG 1993
ZK-NCI 1994
NZ-NCJ 1995

[

n272wa wrote:

User001 wrote:

Apparently Vancouver-Manchester UK from April 2017 And an extended season on Toronto.

I was expecting YVR-MAN to be announced?

Eirules wrote:

I'm still hoping for YUL-DUB

None of these routes were identified in last year's investor day presentation, on the "2018 network opportunities" page. (p.37)

https://www.aircanada.com/en/about/medi ... y_2015.pdf

Almost all the routes that were launched (except for YVR-DEL) are on that map. I believe more routes will be announced that are identified on that map. YVR-MAN, YUL-DUB are not there. Doesn't mean they wont be launched, but if i were a betting man, i'd stick to the map in question for additional routes.

YUL-TLV/NAP/TUN/DKR/BEY are the remaining that are identified. The rest have been launched or are about to. I would add PEK to that list as well, even if it's not on the map, due to CA's inability to go daily on the route.

YYC-PEK/CDG are identified (most likely after the economy picks up, especially for CDG)

YVR-FRA/CDG/SIN/MEL/AKL are identified. The rest have been launched or are about to.

YYZ-DUS/CAN/TPE/JNB/LOS/ACC/SVO/DAC/non stop to EZE/ are identified. The rest have been launched or are about to.