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dubaiamman243
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New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:06 pm

Saudia has ordered 15 new B777-300ER and 13 B789 and from Airbus, 35 A320/321NEO
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SQ22
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:09 pm

 
Leslieville
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:16 pm

Today was a good day for Boeing and Everett.
 
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ER757
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:18 pm

Nice order for both A and B
Definitely going to help Boeing bridge the gap to the 777X. And the NEO continues it's great run for Airbus.
 
TC957
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:22 pm

I would have hoped for a couple more 748F orders in the mix too. I wonder if Boeing also pitched the 748i to SV coming to think of it.
SV must be on course for a pretty big expansion of their international route network with this amount of new metal coming.
 
Mumrik
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:57 pm

Good news for both Airbus and Boeing indeed, but I'm still hoping they'll place an order for some A380 or 747-8i. They should be able to fill thous jets too.

Maybe it'll happen when the Iran order goes through and triggers SV.
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Revelation
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:12 pm

TC957 wrote:
I would have hoped for a couple more 748F orders in the mix too. I wonder if Boeing also pitched the 748i to SV coming to think of it.


The air freight market is soft world-wide, I doubt Saudi needs more freight capacity, given all these 77Ws and 789s with lots of belly space to fill.

Also, sadly, the 748i really doesn't make economic sense these days when you can get cheap 77Ws in the short term or extremely efficient 77Xs in the medium term.
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Hamlet69
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Re: New Saudia order

Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:22 pm

Sadly, I think we'll find that none of these are new orders. Lately, Saudia has been structuring many of their deals through the Saudi Arabian Ministry of Finance, whereby the latter will make the actual purchase, then Saudia will enter into a lease agreement with the Ministry for the use of the aircraft (even though that was always the intention of the Ministry when making the purchase). The recent acquisition of the 748F's and 777F's are examples of this.

More specifically, I believe we'll find the following are the deals specified:

12/05/08 - x13 Boeing 787-9
08/06/14 - x8 Boeing 777-300ER (the other 2 booked that day are for the JASDF)
12/12/14 - x35 Airbus A320N
04/30/15 - x5 Boeing 777-300ER

The final 2 777-300ER's could be a new order, although I suspect they are to be leased from BOC from the order also booked in August 2014.

Note that the first 2 777-300ER's (HZ-AK32 and HZ-AK33) were delivered late last month, which Boeing lists as an 'Unidentified Customer', while a third (HZ-AK34) was delivered about a week ago.

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chiad
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Re: New Saudia order

Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:14 am

Hamlet69 wrote:
Sadly, I think we'll find that none of these are new orders. Lately, Saudia has been structuring many of their deals through the Saudi Arabian Ministry of Finance, whereby the latter will make the actual purchase, then Saudia will enter into a lease agreement with the Ministry for the use of the aircraft (even though that was always the intention of the Ministry when making the purchase). The recent acquisition of the 748F's and 777F's are examples of this.

More specifically, I believe we'll find the following are the deals specified:

12/05/08 - x13 Boeing 787-9
08/06/14 - x8 Boeing 777-300ER (the other 2 booked that day are for the JASDF)
12/12/14 - x35 Airbus A320N
04/30/15 - x5 Boeing 777-300ER

The final 2 777-300ER's could be a new order, although I suspect they are to be leased from BOC from the order also booked in August 2014.

Note that the first 2 777-300ER's (HZ-AK32 and HZ-AK33) were delivered late last month, which Boeing lists as an 'Unidentified Customer', while a third (HZ-AK34) was delivered about a week ago.

Regards,

Hamlet69


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racercoup
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Re: New Saudia order

Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:05 pm

Mumrik wrote:
Good news for both Airbus and Boeing indeed, but I'm still hoping they'll place an order for some A380 or 747-8i. They should be able to fill thous jets too.

Maybe it'll happen when the Iran order goes through and triggers SV.



I think it is time both A & B accept the inevitable and stop accepting orders for VLA's. Why bother selling and building an aircraft that results in a net loss?
 
b747400erf
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Re: New Saudia order

Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:38 pm

racercoup wrote:
Mumrik wrote:
Good news for both Airbus and Boeing indeed, but I'm still hoping they'll place an order for some A380 or 747-8i. They should be able to fill thous jets too.

Maybe it'll happen when the Iran order goes through and triggers SV.



I think it is time both A & B accept the inevitable and stop accepting orders for VLA's. Why bother selling and building an aircraft that results in a net loss?


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Re: New Saudia order

Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:28 pm

racercoup wrote:
Mumrik wrote:
Good news for both Airbus and Boeing indeed, but I'm still hoping they'll place an order for some A380 or 747-8i. They should be able to fill thous jets too.

Maybe it'll happen when the Iran order goes through and triggers SV.



I think it is time both A & B accept the inevitable and stop accepting orders for VLA's. Why bother selling and building an aircraft that results in a net loss?

Because they still have hopes that demand for them will pick up. And there are a lot of costs associated with shutting down a line; it probably costs less to keep it going, even if each plane produces a loss.
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Planeflyer
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Re: New Saudia order

Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:41 pm

With oil at this low and remaining so for the next 20 years the VLA market is EK.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: New Saudia order

Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:28 pm

racercoup wrote:
Mumrik wrote:
Good news for both Airbus and Boeing indeed, but I'm still hoping they'll place an order for some A380 or 747-8i. They should be able to fill thous jets too.

Maybe it'll happen when the Iran order goes through and triggers SV.



I think it is time both A & B accept the inevitable and stop accepting orders for VLA's. Why bother selling and building an aircraft that results in a net loss?


I doubt 747-8 sales are at a loss. The freighter demand is low, but orders are slowly still trickling in. Plus they need to build more to avoid write offs for deferred production costs. 747-8i and A380 orders are a bit of an enigma. The 747-8 is clearly the best large freighter on the market whereas the 747-8i and A380 passenger models have to compete with a host of other planes. I could see more Saudi 747-8f orders depending on the freight market.
 
chiad
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:43 am

Newbiepilot wrote:

I doubt 747-8 sales are at a loss. The freighter demand is low, but orders are slowly still trickling in.


Yes, indeed a trickling of 5 net orders for the last 33 months.
(PS! I only went as far back as to include 2014.)

This is so low that I suspect that I might be wrong though. Anyone ...?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:56 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I doubt 747-8 sales are at a loss. The freighter demand is low, but orders are slowly still trickling in. Plus they need to build more to avoid write offs for deferred production costs. 747-8i and A380 orders are a bit of an enigma. The 747-8 is clearly the best large freighter on the market whereas the 747-8i and A380 passenger models have to compete with a host of other planes. I could see more Saudi 747-8f orders depending on the freight market.


I highly doubt Boeing is making a profit on each build, let alone recuperate the design cost. The 748F the best large freighter? The marked seems to disagree with you, B77F and perhaps even A33F sells better.
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neutrino
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
The 748F the best large freighter?

Yes, the best in its class of one. ;)
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JeremyB
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
I doubt 747-8 sales are at a loss. The freighter demand is low, but orders are slowly still trickling in. Plus they need to build more to avoid write offs for deferred production costs. 747-8i and A380 orders are a bit of an enigma. The 747-8 is clearly the best large freighter on the market whereas the 747-8i and A380 passenger models have to compete with a host of other planes. I could see more Saudi 747-8f orders depending on the freight market.


I highly doubt Boeing is making a profit on each build, let alone recuperate the design cost. The 748F the best large freighter? The marked seems to disagree with you, B77F and perhaps even A33F sells better.


That's probably why Boeing booked a 1.2 billion dollar loss on the 747 program earlier this year. Comparing the 747-8F with the A330-200F also isn't really fair, as the 747-8F carries nearly twice the payload of the A330.
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:09 pm

So can we assume this will be the final 77Ws manufactured? When is the production line closing down?
 
jbs2886
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:15 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
So can we assume this will be the final 77Ws manufactured? When is the production line closing down?


Ummm, no. There will be many more orders because there are a number of slots available before 77X production starts and during 77X production. The 777 production line will not be "closing down."
 
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scbriml
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Re: New Saudia order

Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:18 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
So can we assume this will be the final 77Ws manufactured? When is the production line closing down?


Ummm, no. There will be many more orders because there are a number of slots available before 77X production starts and during 77X production. The 777 production line will not be "closing down."


There are many open production slots before the 77X is in full production. It seems very likely that a not-insignificant number of them will remain unsold. They currently have just 8 net orders for this year, and that will go down even further if the PIA switch to 787s goes ahead as rumoured. Expect another production rate cut before the end of this year as they're simply not selling the numbers required to keep the rate where it currently is.
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KarelXWB
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Re: New Saudia order

Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:44 am

scbriml wrote:
They currently have just 8 net orders for this year, and that will go down even further if the PIA switch to 787s goes ahead as rumoured. Expect another production rate cut before the end of this year as they're simply not selling the numbers required to keep the rate where it currently is.


There are more orders in the backlog that will probably never be delivered. Think about Air India and Hong Kong Airlines Cargo.
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The777Man
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Re: New Saudia order

Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:48 am

KarelXWB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
They currently have just 8 net orders for this year, and that will go down even further if the PIA switch to 787s goes ahead as rumoured. Expect another production rate cut before the end of this year as they're simply not selling the numbers required to keep the rate where it currently is.


There are more orders in the backlog that will probably never be delivered. Think about Air India and Hong Kong Airlines Cargo.


I read a few months ago that Air India was thinking of taking delivery of their 77Ws on order and Air Hong Kong already has two delivers although leased out to Korean Air.

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dubaiamman243
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Re: New Saudia order

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:21 am

Saudia has changed its B787 order to 10 B787-10 and 3 B787-9
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