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FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:54 pm

That is exactly what it looks like.

The bridge I've seen them putting up so far is the new gate 12, far right in the image. It looks like they might be dual bridge capable on a single deck aircraft, but in person it just looks too high up. But again, I don't specialize in construction or jet bridges.

Also worth noting, the image has glass jet bridges...not the case in reality based on what I've seen. Same old American style 1980s off white tube.
 
johhn14
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:28 pm

Interesting observations

I'll confirm that the jetbridges I saw were the corrugated metal (not glass). From the airfield, it also looks as if the widening of some taxi ways has been completed (I saw some fresh asphalt along the edges only). I'm not very adept at names to confirm which ones, but at least some have been done.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:03 pm

I came in last night aboard BA215, one of the 'ONE WORLD' birds (G-CIVK) and it was 100% full. We were an hour late getting out of Heathrow because 'IVK' was all the way over at Terminal 3 (Why, I have no idea). I saw them tugging it over before I knew that it was our plane. It was explained that tugs are low-priority to actual taxiing planes, so that tow had to wait...and wait.

Anyway, we were on approach and the captain told us that we might have to sit for 20 minutes waiting for a gate. That never materialized, but once we pulled to the gate we were met with emergency vehicles to off load a sick woman. I hope she's OK, and I realize that anything more serious probably meant I'd see Newfoundland for the first time ever.

Not sure if it's an every-night thing, but our late arrival meant three BA birds on the stand simultaneously.

QR and TK over in remote parking, along with EI's newest A330 which got 'Sully-ed' by a bird strike.

Our new A380 bridges look way cool compared to the rather ordinary ones at LHR. I'm careful not to gloat, because they have the planes and we don't.

Most spotters love The Renaissance Hotel at Heathrow. I've stayed there three times. But this time at the front- and back-end of my trip I stayed at The Thistle Hotel, directly across from T5. It's certainly no Taj Mahal, and may be swallowed up if LHR's new runway plans go forward. But I loved the place, and the PODS are a cool way to get from there to T5.
 
tjerome
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:10 am

B752OS wrote:
johhn14 wrote:
Regarding 2 vs 3 jet bridges - these images seem to indicate 3 - 2 main deck & 1 upper https://www.suffolk.com/projects/logan- ... hancements


That's not the actual plan Massport went with. Those pictures are alternative A which they nixed. Alternative C was the winner.

https://www.massport.com/media/337677/T ... signed.pdf

See page 64.

I think this is a more accurate picture of the project: http://marrcompanies.com/wp-content/upl ... dering.png


The last image seems odd to me. On the 744 it looks like the bridge from the 1st floor of the building is attached to the upper deck and the bridge on the 2nd floor of the building is onto the lower deck of the plane.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:02 pm

FGITD wrote:
The bridge I've seen them putting up so far is the new gate 12, far right in the image. It looks like they might be dual bridge capable on a single deck aircraft.


tjerome wrote:
The last image seems odd to me. On the 744 it looks like the bridge from the 1st floor of the building is attached to the upper deck and the bridge on the 2nd floor of the building is onto the lower deck of the plane.


it's an optical illusion in both cases due to the fact that the upper bridge on the 747 is not even touching the plane. Notice that the sleeve is not extended. It looks indeed like only 1 bridge per deck.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:05 pm

airbazar wrote:
FGITD wrote:
The bridge I've seen them putting up so far is the new gate 12, far right in the image. It looks like they might be dual bridge capable on a single deck aircraft.


tjerome wrote:
The last image seems odd to me. On the 744 it looks like the bridge from the 1st floor of the building is attached to the upper deck and the bridge on the 2nd floor of the building is onto the lower deck of the plane.


It's an optical illusion in both cases due to the fact that the upper bridge on the 747 is not even touching the plane. Notice that the sleeve is not extended. It looks indeed like only 1 bridge per deck. However I'm hopeful that the upper jetway can be lowered similar to how regular bridges today are lowered to accommodate RJ aircraft
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:06 pm

I've always been curious about something and thought my fellow BOS experts might be able to way in. When you look at the top 10 Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) in the U.S. Boston comes in number 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

What I'm curious about is how number 5 San Francisco - which only has a population of ~500k more than Boston's CSA - has so much more service than BOS. Yes, I know that they are a hub for Finance and Tech. But Boston is also a large financial center (#3 in the US behind NYC and SF), huge Tech hub, as well as one of the most prominent medical/healthcare and educational centers in the world.

So why does BOS have such fewer carriers and fewer destinations served (domestic and international) when we have almost the same population and lots of industries?
 
mugsy519
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:18 pm

My two cents - San Fan is such an unparalleled tech & innovation hub. Boston is definitely top 5 tech & inno in the country but SF is the clear #1. Among some other things I bet, but maybe the weather being more mild in the winter helps as well?
 
ArsenalBOS
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:21 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I've always been curious about something and thought my fellow BOS experts might be able to way in. When you look at the top 10 Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) in the U.S. Boston comes in number 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

What I'm curious about is how number 5 San Francisco - which only has a population of ~500k more than Boston's CSA - has so much more service than BOS. Yes, I know that they are a hub for Finance and Tech. But Boston is also a large financial center (#3 in the US behind NYC and SF), huge Tech hub, as well as one of the most prominent medical/healthcare and educational centers in the world.

So why does BOS have such fewer carriers and fewer destinations served (domestic and international) when we have almost the same population and lots of industries?


I'm just an amateur, but my guess is that SFO is a much more strategic hub for international traffic. SFO is much more important player in the transpacific market than BOS ever will be in the transatlantic market. We're not geographically convenient for much of the country, and we'll always be limited so long as JFK is a 45 minute flight to the south.

Also a guess, but I bet much of the domestic difference stems from the difference in international traffic. Being a hub for UA doesn't hurt matters, either.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:26 pm

FGITD wrote:
Also worth noting, the image has glass jet bridges...not the case in reality based on what I've seen. Same old American style 1980s off white tube.


At Heathrow T5 on Sunday I saw many glass jet bridges. I hope that's what they use in Boston.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:32 pm

SFO grew its stature because the Asian carriers used it as a place to 'collect' people from all over the U.S. It happened during a time when airliners didn't have the 'legs' they do now. The older 747s, L-1011s, DC-10s could get from Asia to SFO but aside from the 747SP struggled to go further east than, say, Chicago.

Today, long-legged airliners are helping places like Boston close the gap...something they'll never actually accomplish, but the trend is a clear one. To a degree, HNL has seen a falloff in traffic too, for the same reasons.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:10 pm

Another analogy that one can derive is for the Top 14 MSAs BOS is the only region which is not a hub for any airline. I am excluding DL which considers a hub but essentially a focus city but nowhere close to the other MSA mega-hubs.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:29 pm

On a separate thread AI is looking to expand with new service to YYZ and IAD - it's now looking remote and remote for BOS to be considered as a prospective destination to India for sometime now.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345589
 
boeingbus
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:49 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I've always been curious about something and thought my fellow BOS experts might be able to way in. When you look at the top 10 Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) in the U.S. Boston comes in number 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

What I'm curious about is how number 5 San Francisco - which only has a population of ~500k more than Boston's CSA - has so much more service than BOS. Yes, I know that they are a hub for Finance and Tech. But Boston is also a large financial center (#3 in the US behind NYC and SF), huge Tech hub, as well as one of the most prominent medical/healthcare and educational centers in the world.

So why does BOS have such fewer carriers and fewer destinations served (domestic and international) when we have almost the same population and lots of industries?



A big part is the close proximity BOS is with PHL, JFK and EWK, Airlines rather spend their resources in larger Northeast hubs where a short flight will serve BOS. 787 changed all this... BOS can be served on its own to the demise of mostly American based airlines who are still banking on their hubs to serve Asia.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:57 pm

boeingbus wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I've always been curious about something and thought my fellow BOS experts might be able to way in. When you look at the top 10 Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) in the U.S. Boston comes in number 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

What I'm curious about is how number 5 San Francisco - which only has a population of ~500k more than Boston's CSA - has so much more service than BOS. Yes, I know that they are a hub for Finance and Tech. But Boston is also a large financial center (#3 in the US behind NYC and SF), huge Tech hub, as well as one of the most prominent medical/healthcare and educational centers in the world.

So why does BOS have such fewer carriers and fewer destinations served (domestic and international) when we have almost the same population and lots of industries?



A big part is the close proximity BOS is with PHL, JFK and EWK, Airlines rather spend their resources in larger Northeast hubs where a short flight will serve BOS. 787 changed all this... BOS can be served on its own to the demise of mostly American based airlines who are still banking on their hubs to serve Asia.


I get that from a US carrier perspective. But SFO gets every major EU and Asian carrier, plus NZ and UA to OZ/NZ. I know the UA hub helps and I get the attraction of *A airlines to feed off the UA flights, but where do they SkyTeam and OW carriers get their traffic from to support their flights with SFO such a big *A hub? BOS doesn't even have the *A dominance and we still pale in comparison even with roughly the same population and similar business environments, plus several that SFO doesn't really have.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:05 pm

How does BOS compare with SFO in regards to domestic flights only? Bostons location does not make a lot of sense for long distance international flights.

Also, how much traffic does SFO put through on flights like SFO to LAX and SAN? Remember that Boston has not only air service, but regular High Speed-ish train travel servicing New York, Newark Philadelphia, and Washington.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:05 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I've always been curious about something and thought my fellow BOS experts might be able to way in. When you look at the top 10 Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) in the U.S. Boston comes in number 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

What I'm curious about is how number 5 San Francisco - which only has a population of ~500k more than Boston's CSA - has so much more service than BOS. Yes, I know that they are a hub for Finance and Tech. But Boston is also a large financial center (#3 in the US behind NYC and SF), huge Tech hub, as well as one of the most prominent medical/healthcare and educational centers in the world.

So why does BOS have such fewer carriers and fewer destinations served (domestic and international) when we have almost the same population and lots of industries?


There are several reasons. First, San Francisco is a larger tourist destination than Boston. The Bay area sees more overseas visitors than the Boston area. Second, Silicon Valley. That alone drives a massive amount of traffic as all of those tech companies have offices all around the world. Silicon Valley is something no other area in this country has. Third, SFO is a major hub for UA, so you will see an airlines like NZ fly there as they can tap into a robust network to the United States and Canada. Fourth, the closest airport with non-stop service outside of North America is a 6-7 hour drive south at LAX. With BOS, you have JFK and EWR roughly 4 hours away and a lot more manageable.

Compare the number of cities in the US that have non-stop flights to Europe to those that have non-stop flights to Asia; there are a lot less that have an Asian connection. Who has the biggest network to Asia for a US carrier? UA does. That means UA has a key asset at SFO in which to connect traffic through.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:30 pm

If Air India came to Boston, would it knock Qatar out? Most agree that AI to BOS is 'When, not If.' Not everyone shares that view, but many do.
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:12 am

chrisnh wrote:
If Air India came to Boston, would it knock Qatar out? Most agree that AI to BOS is 'When, not If.' Not everyone shares that view, but many do.


I'm not sure they'd knock QR out, AI's image isn't very good and their product is very basic. AI's success will probably be determined by their fares and if they offer connections in India.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:38 am

As others have said, for the west coast, historically there has been LAX and SFO.

For the east coast there is JFK, PHL, IAD, ATL, EWR and BOS. Yes the population density is higher on the east coast, but that allows all the hubs to scale, it doesn't necessarily mean that more hubs are needed.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:47 am

B752OS wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I've always been curious about something and thought my fellow BOS experts might be able to way in. When you look at the top 10 Combined Statistical Areas (CSA) in the U.S. Boston comes in number 6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

What I'm curious about is how number 5 San Francisco - which only has a population of ~500k more than Boston's CSA - has so much more service than BOS. Yes, I know that they are a hub for Finance and Tech. But Boston is also a large financial center (#3 in the US behind NYC and SF), huge Tech hub, as well as one of the most prominent medical/healthcare and educational centers in the world.

So why does BOS have such fewer carriers and fewer destinations served (domestic and international) when we have almost the same population and lots of industries?


There are several reasons. First, San Francisco is a larger tourist destination than Boston. The Bay area sees more overseas visitors than the Boston area. Second, Silicon Valley. That alone drives a massive amount of traffic as all of those tech companies have offices all around the world. Silicon Valley is something no other area in this country has. Third, SFO is a major hub for UA, so you will see an airlines like NZ fly there as they can tap into a robust network to the United States and Canada. Fourth, the closest airport with non-stop service outside of North America is a 6-7 hour drive south at LAX. With BOS, you have JFK and EWR roughly 4 hours away and a lot more manageable.

Compare the number of cities in the US that have non-stop flights to Europe to those that have non-stop flights to Asia; there are a lot less that have an Asian connection. Who has the biggest network to Asia for a US carrier? UA does. That means UA has a key asset at SFO in which to connect traffic through.


Thank you B752OS. Much of what you said is very informative and sheds a lot of light on why SFO has so many more carriers.

Quick question - in regards to Silicon Valley, is it really the hub that it used to be? Boston has really gained a lot of traction in the tech community. Is it a Silicon Valley, no, I'm not suggesting that. But it's really flourishing, to the point where I'd say Boston is Silicon Valley Jr.

But what Boston lacks in a Silicon Valley it more than makes up for it with finance, medical/healthcare and education.

I agree with you that San Francisco draws more tourists. But is tourism (read mostly cheaper yielding traffic) really what's giving SFO a significant advantage over BOS. I understand UA's hub brings a lot of *A traffic, but both SkyTeam and OW are both very large. So how do they compete against *A? BOS has no major alliance hub so shouldnt that make it even more attractive for all airlines?
 
seat24charlie
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:32 pm

Returned to Logan on EK237 last Saturday. A couple of things...

1. Wow, those new CBP terminals have really made a difference. We were through passport control in 5 minutes - unheard of in my last 8 years using Logan.
2. Purely observational, but I didn't see a single bag on the belt (and I was there for a good 20+ minutes) that wasn't checked through to another destination. Fair to say that we were one of a very small number of pax ending our journey in Boston.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:24 am

Massport September numbers are out today, another record month. 3m barrier broken in September for the first time since I have records, YTD of 27.3m is over 2.1m up on last year's record of 25.2m International up 21% year over year and domestic up 6.7%, I think Seat24charlie's anecdotal evidence above is correct, i think we are getting a lot of connecting pax now. Canada is through the roof up 26% year on year september and 24% year to date and that's not just coming from the addition of WS (which has had an impact). PD too seems to be doing very well. Interesting that International pax overall are up 100K for the month and Domestic are up 150K or so, there has to be linkage there, particularly off of EK, who do seem to be working well with B6 and others for connections.

At this point we are at 8.5% growth year over year, however we are about to get hit with the capacity cuts on TK and EK so i expect that might drop back a bit. If we use 5% growth rate over 2015 for the rest of the year, BOS will creep over the 36m mark for the year, if we go with the 8.5% YTD mark, you get to nearly 36.3m. nearly 4,300 more movements YTD 16 vs 15, no wonder the folks in the noise brigade are getting ansty, however still a long way short of the 40,000 for 2000.

Impressive stuff. Comparatives updated on the website now for people to see for all regions. For those interested, i am travelling, so updating the T-100's is behind at the moment, although some have been done, I am going back and adding in-bound/out-bound comparisons along with fleet mix information, so it's taking longer than normal to update. Should be up and running smoothly next month and be much quicker to update now i have the formats sorted out.
For Massport Stats: http://awhitelocks.wixsite.com/newengla ... ssportover
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:50 pm

I haven't seen this posted yet. Was looking at some flights BOS-SFO and DL is now showing their new 2x daily will be operated by their 75S with the flatbed seats up front starting June 8th (the launch of the new route). Lots of speculation that they'd have to at least fly the red-eye with flatbeds to be compete against Mint, so this is interesting they put flatbeds on both seats. Now I'm wondering if this will be just standard domestic F service or if they'll go DeltaOne to truly compete against Mint with catering and bedding.
 
tjerome
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:52 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I haven't seen this posted yet. Was looking at some flights BOS-SFO and DL is now showing their new 2x daily will be operated by their 75S with the flatbed seats up front starting June 8th (the launch of the new route). Lots of speculation that they'd have to at least fly the red-eye with flatbeds to be compete against Mint, so this is interesting they put flatbeds on both seats. Now I'm wondering if this will be just standard domestic F service or if they'll go DeltaOne to truly compete against Mint with catering and bedding.


Yup, they changed it to the flatbeds. I'd be surprised if they don't announce it as D1 service since it will be the only aircraft type offered on the route (it's not like only the redeye has the lie-flats). This also times perfectly with the BOS-DUB flight. Aircraft arrives at 8:15pm from SFO, departs at 9:14pm to DUB. Arrives from DUB at 12:35pm and then departs for SFO at 4pm.

I saw a C-17 land on 4R on Tuesday and was sitting at NC21 on Wednesday around 11:30am. Pretty cool to see it at BOS.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:15 pm

tjerome wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I haven't seen this posted yet. Was looking at some flights BOS-SFO and DL is now showing their new 2x daily will be operated by their 75S with the flatbed seats up front starting June 8th (the launch of the new route). Lots of speculation that they'd have to at least fly the red-eye with flatbeds to be compete against Mint, so this is interesting they put flatbeds on both seats. Now I'm wondering if this will be just standard domestic F service or if they'll go DeltaOne to truly compete against Mint with catering and bedding.


Yup, they changed it to the flatbeds. I'd be surprised if they don't announce it as D1 service since it will be the only aircraft type offered on the route (it's not like only the redeye has the lie-flats). This also times perfectly with the BOS-DUB flight. Aircraft arrives at 8:15pm from SFO, departs at 9:14pm to DUB. Arrives from DUB at 12:35pm and then departs for SFO at 4pm.

I saw a C-17 land on 4R on Tuesday and was sitting at NC21 on Wednesday around 11:30am. Pretty cool to see it at BOS.


Flight times look interesting. On the inbound from SFO arriving at 8:15pm - is 59 minutes enough time to turn it around to do a TATL flight at 9:14pm to DUB? Seems kinda tight, so I wonder if DL will be rotating the 75S to/from DUB with a JFK or ATL flight?
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:53 pm

59 minutes is a bit tight, but not out of the question. I've never worked a 757, but I've seen 777s done in 90 minutes, and 330s done in 65, so it's possible.

Didn't see it mentioned anywhere since the equipment change was posted, but UA Finally brought in the 777. Fits very nicely at B.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:09 pm

Ok slightly off topic, but I am sitting at JFK waiting to come back to BOS (to provide the tenuous link) and through the rain and muck I have to marvel at the dance I am seeing between an SIA 380 and an EY380 as one arrives and the latter departs. Say what you want about the 388 but it's a mightily impressive aircraft. Can wait to see them finally at BOS as more than just a divert
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:12 pm

Not surprised to hear about the lay flats on BOS-SFO for DL. That ability to lay down and sleep is a huge deal for my colleagues when coming back on the red eye and they'll gladly pay more for it.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
rsanzo
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:22 pm

Playing around with summer 2017 schedule, I noticed a pretty interesting shift in capacity on BOS-SFO.... As stated above, DL has brought in 757s with lie-flats (I speculated about this a little while back)... I think that DL has made this move in order to 1) be considered a viable competitor on this particular transcon route, and 2) brought in the premium business class product as a result of B6's (4x daily Mint Class flights by this summer) and UA's moves (as I raised earlier and supported with legitimate sources, UA's 777s on the BOS-SFO route are expected to have the new lie-flat Business Class product installed by Summer 2017- on the UA website, BOS-SFO is already loaded with the reconfigured 777-200s (28 lie-flat Business, 102 Premium Economy, 234 Economy), effective Saturday July 1, 2017 onward; they currently have the old Hawaii planes- awaiting refurbs...), and as a result, it looks as though the premium class market to SFO is expanding quite rapidly, and all players are going to have to offer a good product- this is just my opinion, I have no factual material to back this up... although, I believe the writing on the wall is pretty clear and unambiguous. So, by summer 2017, BOS-SFO looks something like this: VX will be operating 3x daily A320s up from 2x daily, UA 7x daily (2x daily 777, 1x daily 757-300, 4x daily 737-800/900- I noticed UA on some days mixing the 737-800/900 with A320s, but the 1x 757-300 and 2x 777 is consistent everyday, at least as far as I could see), DL 2x daily 757-200s, and B6 4x daily A321s with Mint. Whichever way you slice it, that appears to be a pretty substantial increase in capacity for that route- for 2017 that route could potentially exceed 1 million pax (roundtrip), if you do the math. Can that route sustain that much passenger flow based on business customers, tourism traffic, and connecting traffic going through both cities?
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:08 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
tjerome wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I haven't seen this posted yet. Was looking at some flights BOS-SFO and DL is now showing their new 2x daily will be operated by their 75S with the flatbed seats up front starting June 8th (the launch of the new route). Lots of speculation that they'd have to at least fly the red-eye with flatbeds to be compete against Mint, so this is interesting they put flatbeds on both seats. Now I'm wondering if this will be just standard domestic F service or if they'll go DeltaOne to truly compete against Mint with catering and bedding.


Yup, they changed it to the flatbeds. I'd be surprised if they don't announce it as D1 service since it will be the only aircraft type offered on the route (it's not like only the redeye has the lie-flats). This also times perfectly with the BOS-DUB flight. Aircraft arrives at 8:15pm from SFO, departs at 9:14pm to DUB. Arrives from DUB at 12:35pm and then departs for SFO at 4pm.

I saw a C-17 land on 4R on Tuesday and was sitting at NC21 on Wednesday around 11:30am. Pretty cool to see it at BOS.


Flight times look interesting. On the inbound from SFO arriving at 8:15pm - is 59 minutes enough time to turn it around to do a TATL flight at 9:14pm to DUB? Seems kinda tight, so I wonder if DL will be rotating the 75S to/from DUB with a JFK or ATL flight?

Why would anybody want to connect on DL from BOS to DUB? Aer Lingus already flies direct from SFO to DUB and my understanding is BA also flies to LHR and SJC from SFO.

Just curious, why are DL and who knows maybe AA in the future not targeting SJC instead of SFO? If the business community is primarily in the tech space, SJC seems more logical than SFO. I honestly liked SJC over SFO if I had to be in the Bay Area.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:01 pm

rsanzo wrote:
Playing around with summer 2017 schedule, I noticed a pretty interesting shift in capacity on BOS-SFO.... As stated above, DL has brought in 757s with lie-flats (I speculated about this a little while back)... I think that DL has made this move in order to 1) be considered a viable competitor on this particular transcon route, and 2) brought in the premium business class product as a result of B6's (4x daily Mint Class flights by this summer) and UA's moves (as I raised earlier and supported with legitimate sources, UA's 777s on the BOS-SFO route are expected to have the new lie-flat Business Class product installed by Summer 2017- on the UA website, BOS-SFO is already loaded with the reconfigured 777-200s (28 lie-flat Business, 102 Premium Economy, 234 Economy), effective Saturday July 1, 2017 onward; they currently have the old Hawaii planes- awaiting refurbs...), and as a result, it looks as though the premium class market to SFO is expanding quite rapidly, and all players are going to have to offer a good product- this is just my opinion, I have no factual material to back this up... although, I believe the writing on the wall is pretty clear and unambiguous. So, by summer 2017, BOS-SFO looks something like this: VX will be operating 3x daily A320s up from 2x daily, UA 7x daily (2x daily 777, 1x daily 757-300, 4x daily 737-800/900- I noticed UA on some days mixing the 737-800/900 with A320s, but the 1x 757-300 and 2x 777 is consistent everyday, at least as far as I could see), DL 2x daily 757-200s, and B6 4x daily A321s with Mint. Whichever way you slice it, that appears to be a pretty substantial increase in capacity for that route- for 2017 that route could potentially exceed 1 million pax (roundtrip), if you do the math. Can that route sustain that much passenger flow based on business customers, tourism traffic, and connecting traffic going through both cities?


I believe BOS is the largest market from SFO east of the Mississippi besides NYC. On several threads over the years a number of posters have made comments to how big the market actually is. I think I remember reading on a thread last year that the market never falls below 2,200 PDEW throughout the year. Have there ever been less than 2 carriers on the route in the last 20 years? I would also assume a decent number of people connect through SFO on UA. I've done it on a few occasions. I was flying BOS-SFO-PDX a few months back and we were an hour and a half late getting into SFO. When we landed the FA asked people not connecting to stay seated and let those with connections exit first; it was a fully loaded 752 and it seemed as if half the plane got up once that announcement was made.

Speaking of the Bay Area, is B6 making BOS-SJC year round? Or is it still seasonal?
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:09 pm

iyerhari wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
tjerome wrote:

Yup, they changed it to the flatbeds. I'd be surprised if they don't announce it as D1 service since it will be the only aircraft type offered on the route (it's not like only the redeye has the lie-flats). This also times perfectly with the BOS-DUB flight. Aircraft arrives at 8:15pm from SFO, departs at 9:14pm to DUB. Arrives from DUB at 12:35pm and then departs for SFO at 4pm.

I saw a C-17 land on 4R on Tuesday and was sitting at NC21 on Wednesday around 11:30am. Pretty cool to see it at BOS.


Flight times look interesting. On the inbound from SFO arriving at 8:15pm - is 59 minutes enough time to turn it around to do a TATL flight at 9:14pm to DUB? Seems kinda tight, so I wonder if DL will be rotating the 75S to/from DUB with a JFK or ATL flight?

Why would anybody want to connect on DL from BOS to DUB? Aer Lingus already flies direct from SFO to DUB and my understanding is BA also flies to LHR and SJC from SFO.

Just curious, why are DL and who knows maybe AA in the future not targeting SJC instead of SFO? If the business community is primarily in the tech space, SJC seems more logical than SFO. I honestly liked SJC over SFO if I had to be in the Bay Area.


iyehari, take a deep breath and chill for a moment. Not one person has suggested or said anything about anyone wanting to connect in BOS to SFO from DUB or vice versa. What we've been discussing is how the 75S used on both the BOS-DUB-BOS flights and BOS-SFO-BOS flights seem to be the same aircraft. It's not confirmed we're simply speculating.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:43 am

Sorry - sometimes one messes up reading in the small screen without reading thru - thank you for the clarification.
 
tjerome
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:41 pm

FGITD wrote:
59 minutes is a bit tight, but not out of the question. I've never worked a 757, but I've seen 777s done in 90 minutes, and 330s done in 65, so it's possible.

Didn't see it mentioned anywhere since the equipment change was posted, but UA Finally brought in the 777. Fits very nicely at B.


I've seen DL's 199 seat 757 turned in less than that. It is tight but doable, plus with SFO-BOS being eastbound it will likely arrive a bit early.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:29 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Why would anybody want to connect on DL from BOS to DUB? Aer Lingus already flies direct from SFO to DUB and my understanding is BA also flies to LHR and SJC from SFO.

Too often I see ignorant comments like that here. The shortest path is not what most consumers want and airlines know that. It's called revenue management. I guarantee you that every single day people connect in BOS to DL's TATL flights instead of taking a non-stop option. It happens every day, for every airline, at every hub or focus city. And I'll tell you even more. Every day people travel from BOS to Europe via YYZ/NYC/IAD/PHL/ORD, a far more significant detour in many cases than SFO-BOS-DUB. Not everyone is willing to pay for the non-stop premium. SFO-BOS-DUB is a mere 11% detour from the GC. If you're a SkyTeam FF, right now your options are to fly to CDG and backtrack or to fly via JFK or ATL. SFO-BOS-DUB is by far the best option.
 
hinckley
Posts: 605
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:57 pm

airbazar wrote:
Too often I see ignorant comments like that here.


I'm in my 50s and have had a core belief for years - I hope until the day I die, I have more questions than answers. I see learning as enlightenment. You apparently see it as ignorance. Hmmm . . .
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:31 pm

airbazar wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Why would anybody want to connect on DL from BOS to DUB? Aer Lingus already flies direct from SFO to DUB and my understanding is BA also flies to LHR and SJC from SFO.

Too often I see ignorant comments like that here. The shortest path is not what most consumers want and airlines know that. It's called revenue management. I guarantee you that every single day people connect in BOS to DL's TATL flights instead of taking a non-stop option. It happens every day, for every airline, at every hub or focus city. And I'll tell you even more. Every day people travel from BOS to Europe via YYZ/NYC/IAD/PHL/ORD, a far more significant detour in many cases than SFO-BOS-DUB. Not everyone is willing to pay for the non-stop premium. SFO-BOS-DUB is a mere 11% detour from the GC. If you're a SkyTeam FF, right now your options are to fly to CDG and backtrack or to fly via JFK or ATL. SFO-BOS-DUB is by far the best option.


I myself have taken PHL and JFK many times to be on AA/US being a million miler there but SFO-BOS-DUB just seems too much. If one is a Skyteam member one could still take SFO-AMS/CDG - DUB. But anyways, we are completely off the discussion here. Thanks for your great savant knowledge and clarification.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:41 pm

hinckley wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Too often I see ignorant comments like that here.


I'm in my 50s and have had a core belief for years - I hope until the day I die, I have more questions than answers. I see learning as enlightenment. You apparently see it as ignorance. Hmmm . . .

The point is he wasn't asking a question or even making a sugestion. He was making a statement which seemed pompous and elitist at best.
iyerhari wrote:
I myself have taken PHL and JFK many times to be on AA/US being a million miler there but SFO-BOS-DUB just seems too much. If one is a Skyteam member one could still take SFO-AMS/CDG - DUB. But anyways, we are completely off the discussion here. Thanks for your great savant knowledge and clarification.

That's great until you realize that BOS-PHL-Europe is a larger detour as a % than SFO-BOS-Europe, and about the same as total mileage.
And yes while I too would prefer the AMS/CDG option, I would take the BOS option if I'm buying 4 tickets for the family and the BOS connection saved me $100 per ticket. Heck, EK has built their entire business on getting people to go out of their way to connect at DXB.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:48 pm

New arrival announcement for me this morning on UA to ORD. "Ladies and Gentlemen it will be just a few minutes before you can get off the plane, we have to unload bags from the rear of the plane first otherwise we are in danger of tipping backwards"
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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kearnet
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:16 pm

VS4ever wrote:
New arrival announcement for me this morning on UA to ORD. "Ladies and Gentlemen it will be just a few minutes before you can get off the plane, we have to unload bags from the rear of the plane first otherwise we are in danger of tipping backwards"


Must've been a 737-900. I've heard many stories where it's actually a semi-common occurance on the model due to it being so stretched.
C402 9K | B1900D US | ATR72 AA | DHC8 US | CRJ2 US | E175 UA | E190 B6 | D93 US | M88 US/AA | 732 US | 733 US/WN | 734 US | 73G WN | B738 FJ/QF | B752 US/AA | B762 DL | B77W EK | F28 US | F100 US | A319 US | A320 B6 | A332 FJ | A380 EK
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:00 pm

Here is a video of it happening to a Delta 737-900
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLWxD0gY__A

According to United they are going to be deploying a "tail stand" device to airports in January in order to fix this issue. Sounds basically like a bike kickstand.
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... s-737-900s
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:39 pm

Not entirely rare. I've seen DL and AS using them at BOS before.

I've heard conflicting purposes for them though. Some say they're a literal kickstand, to hold up the tail, while others claim it's more so that the ground crew can see if it's starting to move off balance, like a big measuring stick.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:52 pm

That would be a large difference in its usefulness, if its just a way to warn its about to tip.
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:05 pm

Thanks guys, I thought i had heard about this issue before, but it's never happened on an actual flight of mine, it indeed was a 739. One for the knowledge bank going forward
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:00 pm

Today's news:

Looks like EK239/240 will be back running again after its temporary cancellation through Nov 15th, a quick check for Nov 23rd shows it's bookable, so appears not a permanent removal.

Numbers for CAA (UK are out for August and September) they tried to trick me by hiding the link to August, but they make their URL's too easy to figure out lol.

According to them
LGW-BOS, 10,291 in August and 10,381 in September, with DY running 4 weekly I think that pretty much equates to sold out. (my math for august shows more than 100%, so I have to go back and double check it.)
LHR-BOS Sept 77,554 against 77,289 last year, so flat into LHR, however as a result of DY, this means 10K more pax from the LON market year over year.
Aug 82,070 vs 95,353 last year, BIG drop, but offset by the 10K from DY

So we can certainly say DY is pulling in decent numbers considering no feed and I suspect they are having an impact on the LHR numbers, the winter months will be more interesting as clearly Summer is a big draw, so we shall see, but so far I don't think they have a lot to complain about.

FYI, no Manchester numbers yet for either month, so can't confirm how MAN-BOS did on MT.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:12 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Today's news:

Looks like EK239/240 will be back running again after its temporary cancellation through Nov 15th, a quick check for Nov 23rd shows it's bookable, so appears not a permanent removal.

Numbers for CAA (UK are out for August and September) they tried to trick me by hiding the link to August, but they make their URL's too easy to figure out lol.

According to them
LGW-BOS, 10,291 in August and 10,381 in September, with DY running 4 weekly I think that pretty much equates to sold out. (my math for august shows more than 100%, so I have to go back and double check it.)
LHR-BOS Sept 77,554 against 77,289 last year, so flat into LHR, however as a result of DY, this means 10K more pax from the LON market year over year.
Aug 82,070 vs 95,353 last year, BIG drop, but offset by the 10K from DY

So we can certainly say DY is pulling in decent numbers considering no feed and I suspect they are having an impact on the LHR numbers, the winter months will be more interesting as clearly Summer is a big draw, so we shall see, but so far I don't think they have a lot to complain about.

FYI, no Manchester numbers yet for either month, so can't confirm how MAN-BOS did on MT.


Wasn't 787-9 used in August and September for BOS-LGW - maybe 1 day a week. I think airlineroute may have more info.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:17 pm

[/quote]

Wasn't 787-9 used in August and September for BOS-LGW - maybe 1 day a week. I think airlineroute may have more info.[/quote]

According to airlineroute it was used 2 weekly from 9/4. If we use that as the metric, the September was a 96%+ load factor.

It's August that is puzzling, I am going to go back through flightstats to see what happened.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:55 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
bmmsobo wrote:
Is Air Europa starting service to Madrid. I was searching third party sites for a planned vacation to Madrid next June and noticed that air Europa was showing up as non-stop in addition to Iberia.


Nice catch! I was just playing around with Google flights and it looks like 4x weekly BOS-MAD with the following schedule:

UX31 MAD-BOS 3:30pm-5:20pm x246
UX 32 BOS-MAD 10:50pm-11:40am x246


Anyone know whether these flights will have DL, AF, KL codeshares?
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation - Part 11

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:04 pm

VS4ever wrote:

According to airlineroute it was used 2 weekly from 9/4. If we use that as the metric, the September was a 96%+ load factor.

It's August that is puzzling, I am going to go back through flightstats to see what happened.


They always could have subbed one in.

Also - there are some connections in LGW on DY especially to Scandinavia and a savvy traveler could use GatwickConnects as well for EasyJet "feed"
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

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