rlwynn
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:56 am

bennett123 wrote:
Doubt the main creditors relly on this forum.


I doubt this place is the only one where this information is.
I can drive faster than you
 
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angelopga
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:07 am

The issue is the payment of ATOL untill Friday? If yes, what's the amount to be paid?
 
azz767
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:36 am

Another reason for the 7am theories was that at most MON bases, especially MAN, aircraft were parked remote where as typically 6/7 MON aircraft are parked on contact stands but on Sunday night everything went remote, again it's just speculation but everything on Sunday afternoon/night pointed towards something going on, I hope they survive they have been part of my best and worst experiences as a passenger and back in 2006 there A330's going across the pond was a great ride
 
planesarecool
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:48 am

But as I've said, if you're predicting the demise of a carrier based on the fact that they're using remote stands, then every carrier in the UK went bust at 7am this morning.
 
azz767
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:02 am

Not if it's completely against the norm, like i said every MON a/c that landed at MAN Sunday night parked straight on remote, every morning there is at least 6 MON a/c on contact stands, adding that to the fact of the US a/c coming over and the other bits of info and there is more than enough for people to question if something is going on
 
TC957
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:49 am

I think Friday is the crunch day for Monarch, when their ATOL operating license is up for renewal. Read somewhere it's in excess of £5M. Really hope they're OK and we continue to see the yellow & black A320's/321's in our skies.
However - anyone else thinks it's possible that Jet2 could be their savior and merge with them. That would give Jet2 a significant new presence at LTN & LGW plus the Max8 order might be attractive to Jet2. Plus, as has been noted, Greybull is looking for a buyer....
 
f4f3a
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:12 pm

I think that would be the best case scenario for them . The question would be would you keep the brand ?
 
skipness1E
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:24 pm

Why would Jet2 spend millions on a merger with monarch when they could wait and pick up their slots and business for free in a week?
That's the thing about free market capitalism, it has a dark side and businesses aren't charities.
 
TC957
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:37 pm

For free ?? I think their administrators would having to say about that ! They aren't charities either.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:48 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Why would Jet2 spend millions on a merger with monarch when they could wait and pick up their slots and business for free in a week?
That's the thing about free market capitalism, it has a dark side and businesses aren't charities.

There is nothing ZB could bring to the Jet2 party that would be worth anything.

LS isn't interested in a Gatwick operation, and is starting their own Birmingham and Stansted operations. Luton would not interest them. Fleets are also totally incompatible which would be a problem short term, and so far LS has shown itself to only be interested in bargain end of line 738NG aircraft and not the NEO. New models at premium prices are not part of the Jet2 business plan.

The only part of the business I could see LS being remotely interested in is MAEL, the engineering division. Even that is problematic as the LTN base wouldn't fit. It would need to be broken up as BHX would be the only surviving engineering base that Jet2 could plan round. The various other bits such as holiday brands would be pointless as they are faded and Jet2Holidays is now a major player by itself and growing organically. Takeovers are just not part of the Jet2 ethos.
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:22 pm

TC957 wrote:
For free ?? I think their administrators would having to say about that ! They aren't charities either.

It wouldn't be for free, but it would be much cheaper than merging with the whole thing. Waiting for the airline to fail means you can pick what you actually want from the carcass, instead of getting the entire thing. It is only worth merging with a failing airline if necessary for strategic reasons. Monarch, frankly, is not a big fish in the pond and not a worthwhile investment for most airlines.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:35 pm

I think it's pretty obvious that the reason all aircraft went to remote stands on Sunday night is that talks were ongoing with the CAA overnight, which appear to have staved off the closure of the airline on Monday morning - hence the rescue flights arranged by the CAA were not required.

Although noted as second-hand information, one of my friends received a reply saying that the UA aircraft were for 'military charters'. If true and issued by Monarch, that's deeply misleading - the public do at least have a right to know the truth when parting with their cash.
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OA260
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:40 pm

Veteran chairman of troubled Monarch headed for exit

The high-profile chairman of troubled airline Monarch, Sir Roy McNulty, quietly left his role last month, it can be revealed.

Monarch Holdings, the owner of the 50-year-old airline which is still trying to finalise a multi-million-pound rescue package amid fears that it’s close to going bust, filed documents at Companies House in August revealing Sir Roy’s departure from the board.

When Sir Roy, chairman of Gatwick Airport and former chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, was promoted to the role from non-executive board member in July 2014, Monarch lauded the fact that “one of Britain’s most experienced executives in the transport and aviation sectors” was its new chairman.

This summer, however, the airline — which has admitted seeking out “significant investment” in a bid “to weather tougher market conditions and to fund its ongoing growth” — issued no statement about Sir Roy’s exit.

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/vete ... 54921.html

---

Monarch denies it is on brink of going bust - but what happens if it does



There is growing concern from holidaymakers as rumours that Monarch Airlines is on the verge of collapse circle.

The company has denied speculation that it is in financial trouble, saying that it is "trading well", after its Twitter feed became inundated with queries from customers asking if the airline was going bust.

The budget carrier has reassured customers by saying it is on the brink of announcing significant new investment that would lead to securing a new licence.

However, one fact that is fueling the concern is that Monarch reportedly needs to renew its operating licence by Friday to avoid closing.

So what would actually happen if it went bust?

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-27/mona ... er-closes/
 
2e0zlm
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:51 pm

Looks like there's another united aircraft joining the others - ringway this time; UAL2162 just before 0900 Thursday
 
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OA260
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:56 pm

2e0zlm wrote:
Looks like there's another united aircraft joining the others - ringway this time; UAL2162 just before 0900 Thursday


This one?


Image
 
2e0zlm
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:58 pm

Happy days. Hopefully all the others are on their way back instead of sitting idle costing, I would imagine, hundreds of thousands of pounds a day (for the CAA in the first instance by all accounts) in total.
 
2e0zlm
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:16 pm

Out of interest, does anybody know approximately what the cost would be to effectively wet lease, and park, two 747's, a 777 and a 767 per day? Of course, in the UK, the CAA are subject to the freedom of information act so, in time, some of the reasoning etc may become public knowledge through those means.
 
A300Jock
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:46 pm

Ok I've read all the posts, and it is just gobsmacking how 2 plus 2 = 5. I am the first to agree that there is often no smoke without fire, however without up to date knowledge and inside information, ie sitting in the Monarch boardroom, all you can do is guess as to what is happening within Monarch.

I am unable to share all that I know, but as a Captain with the airline I am fully up to date with what is going on via updates from our CEO. Suffice to say it appears most of you are miles off the mark! All I can say is wait until the weekend and all hopefully will become clear and myself and my 2799 colleagues will hopefully still have a job.

There are a number of people on here who should stick to taking photographs of aircraft and stop pretending to be airline CEO's. Without airlines you have no pictures so please cut us some slack.

For all its problems Monarch has so far survived longer than any other British Operator, and long may it continue to do so.


A300Jock
 
Marksw76
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:08 pm

Poor old Monarch, it's a big shame, but seems to be quite a lot of affection for the airline on social media. I wonder if it is the BHS of the airline world? A little bit behind the times but quite well liked by some.

I guess it never seemed to react to the change in market over the past 20 odd years. It still stuck to the package holiday type set up for too long, particularly when Thomas Cook and TUI started buying up competitors like Airtours, First Choice etc (why didn't Monarch get taken over then??). Meanwhile the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet started getting established in the LCC market, locking them out of that. And finally Jet2 comes along and beats them at their own game!

Still, I shouldn't talk past tense, it's my favourite airline, and hopefully things turn out well. And the addition of new routes to places like Scandinavia seems like a good shout (from an armchair CEO perpective!)

My concern is Jet2 might start putting the pressure on at BHX and MAN, as I'm pretty sure Monarch would still be at EMA if it hadn't been for the Jet2 expansion.

Time will tell, but I wish them well!!
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:19 pm

A300Jock wrote:
. Suffice to say it appears most of you are miles off the mark! All I can say is wait until the weekend and all hopefully will become clear and myself and my 2799 colleagues will hopefully still have a job.A300Jock


Well with words like "hopefully" tied in with "still have a job." I don't see how most here are miles off the mark. It seems more close to the mark, if not right on.
 
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dutchflyboi
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:24 pm

Well so far there are still the following routes showing up at United:
UA2283 29/9 ACE-MAN
UA2295 29/9 LGW-ACE
UA228129/9 ALC-LGW
The flight attendants are crewed by s-UA. Interesting to see the rest of the schedule.
 
303dk
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:30 pm

2e0zlm wrote:
Out of interest, does anybody know approximately what the cost would be to effectively wet lease, and park, two 747's, a 777 and a 767 per day? Of course, in the UK, the CAA are subject to the freedom of information act so, in time, some of the reasoning etc may become public knowledge through those means.

And an A330 and 738
 
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OA260
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:23 pm

Some nice retro pics in this article.


Greybull has little choice but to help Monarch through this period of turbulence

It’s been nearly half a century since Monarch flew its first sun-seeking Brits from its base in Luton to Madrid aboard a Bristol 175 Britannia 300 turboprop jet.

It was the 1960s and package holidays to destinations in the Mediterranean were not only a new phenomenon, but incredibly sophisticated. It was a time when flying was glamorous, passengers dressed up for the occasion, becoming a stewardess was a life goal, and pilots, who today are, let’s be honest, glorified bus drivers, were held in awe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... this-peri/
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:08 pm

OA260 wrote:
Some nice retro pics in this article.


Greybull has little choice but to help Monarch through this period of turbulence


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... this-peri/


The Telegraph may feel that Greybull has little choice but to inject more cash, however Greybull might not see it the same way. They have previously put at least two well known UK brands into receivership (Comet electrical and Morrisons Local)

Bear in mind that whilst reporting that Monarch is now profitable, they have injected cash on a number of occasions, and for a Northern hemisphere mainly leisure airline to run out of cash in September is not a good place to be. Traditionally they should be just emerging from their summer season with a healthy bank balance to see them through to next Spring
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:20 pm

TC957 wrote:
For free ?? I think their administrators would having to say about that ! They aren't charities either.


By no means all airports are slot restricted, even those that are have a "use it or lose it" rule. As an example at LHR a slot has to be used on at least 80% of the days in the allocation period. For the winter season of 154 days, the slot must be used for 123 days. Now on day 1 of an airline shutdown there's a maximum of 31 days assuming that it has been used 100% until that date, for a new operator to sell seats, find an aircraft etc and commence operations, even then they've got to operate it continually to the end of the period. The result is that with a sudden shutdown the slots have little value. If however you can sell them piecemeal well in advance they may well have significant value.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:53 pm

warren84 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
downdata wrote:
Oh please. Just give it up. Businesses, like people, have a finite life. In fact, artificially prolonging a terrible business is in no one's best interest. They should have just avoided all this drama and announced their bankruptcy months ago when their operation is clearly no longer viable.


If Monarch's announced (projected) annual profit this year is what they claim, on what basis do you conclude that their operation in not viable?


They added a note to their annual report to October 2015 re. going concern:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01165001/filing-history

...Due to the external financing not being currently agreed, and the arrangement with the shareholders not being legally binding, there is a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt upon the Group's and Company's ability to continue as a going concern...


This together with the unusual aircraft movements, and press reports about the CAA's concern for Monarch's viability overnight are potential indicators that they were in danger of collapse.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37469743
https://www.ft.com/content/17a26c9e-83bb-11e6-8897-2359a58ac7a5

Now there are reports that they will get a cash injection, but it still doesn't bode well for the future of the airline if they need emergency capital injections to carry on trading

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/26/monarch-airlines-denies-it-is-about-to-go-bust/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/26/monarch-airlines-denies-rumours-of-financial-trouble


Thank you very much for posting the link to Monarch's annual reports. I had been unable to find it on my own. I thought the 2015 report rather dreary reading, including the list of "loans" from stakeholders to keep things afloat. Apparently the situation really has not improved much, if at all, despite news of profits during the current fiscal year. I really do hope they can manage to eke their way through this tight period. I like the livery.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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XLA2008
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:49 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
A300Jock wrote:
. Suffice to say it appears most of you are miles off the mark! All I can say is wait until the weekend and all hopefully will become clear and myself and my 2799 colleagues will hopefully still have a job.A300Jock


Well with words like "hopefully" tied in with "still have a job." I don't see how most here are miles off the mark. It seems more close to the mark, if not right on.



And you know your right on because.... Small pieces of information lead to....? Oh that's right at the moment lead to nothing because we have no actual facts from MON HQ or the CAA or Greybull... the only companies that actually know what's really going on!!! So...

I agree his statement does seem to somewhat contradict itself in its terms! However he is right, we don't actually know the full truth of the matter!

I am interested to see how this all plays out, but I hope that Monarch manages to pull through this and come out the other side!
“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
flyboyrich
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:59 pm

after reading a lot of what has come onto this forum in the last 24 hours , i was down in palma this afternoon and yes there is a ua 744 sitting in the 'car park' waiting for well i guess either to go home or to start flights within europe, can i just say though that yes monarch have been moving towards the thin end of the wedge for many years and after many aircraft and re structuring plans they have ended up at this point but not only this but as i am crew myself i can only really think about those crew and pilots who are working on a daily basis at the moment maybe not knowing what is going to happen and at the same time keeping the operation going and their customers happy, i feel for them they are like i am the face of the airline , i work for a holiday airline and hey i am lucky enough to be with a pretty large company however i have total respect for them they have been around all my life which is shy of 40 years and more, they have weathered many a storm but maybe just maybe this is one too many for them, deep down i want them to succeed in carrying on as i think of the families who my end up loosing and income etc it is harsh . i know all the comments or at least the majority are on about the 'heavies' coming into to do heavy lifting but these are peoples lives that could be knocked in a very hard way, i have been flying nearly 17 years and i don't know what i would do if i was not to know if my job would be there next week, sorry to put this spin on it but seeing the jumbo sitting there has made me realise that the people matter as much as the aircraft and company .
 
144modeller
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:27 pm

I know nothing, but I think a lot.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, reading other people's posts, Monarch's problems are purely financial - there's no physical reason why they can't fly planes. In the event of a collapse, the costs of repatriation would be borne by CAA , effectively the UK government's wallet.

OK, if I were given the task of organising the repatriation of an A320-size bunch of passengers from Tenerife to Manchester, would I look for a 747, with its massive over-capacity and horrendous operating costs (compared with an A320 on a short journey), paying commercial prices to a foreign airline at the current poor exchange rate, dragging the plane across the Atlantic and leaving it on the tarmac for several days, with relief crews? Or would I look for an A320, perfectly serviceable but sitting idle in Manchester, together with a crew who are familiar with the route and the airports concerned?

Monarch's licence is due for renewal - it has not been revoked. There are no safety issues. As the government will be funding the operation, formal guarantees by the airline are irrelevant. It would be perfectly feasible for the CAA to allow Monarch a short extension to their licence, and pay them to carry the passengers home. It would keep £M's in-house instead of supporting the US economy at our expense, and provide a little extra employment for a some of the unfortunate staff at the airline.
No doubt some of you will know the real reason why this is not going to happen, but I have a very simplistic view of life.
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:42 pm

If he's not right then please explain why all those chartered aircraft are still on standby?
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:08 am

Actually we know three of the most important facts about the situation, which paint a very telling top-line picture:

1. Greybull is the majority owner of Monarch Airlines.
2. Monarch Airlines have issued a 'Going Concern' warning some time ago, and were seeking new external capital investment.
3. Greybull have yet to inject new capital.

Just think about that for a minute. If this is all about Monarch running out of cash, then every hour that the current and very public uncertainty is prolonged, Greybull's potential to ultimately realise a positive return from their investment in Monarch as a going concern weakens. Greybull had the opportunity to bridge any funding gap which existed a year ago and inevitably again in more recent months, to most likely avoid the current situation occurring, but apparently chose not to. Instead the GC warning tells us that Monarch instead sought external investment.

Monarch now state they are expecting to announce further funding from existing stakeholders. So, If Greybull really are sat at the negotiating table, what has materially changed at the last minute to have brought them around from their previous position? Or, is there instead a last minute external offer/takeover, which will dilute Greybull's stake, but keep the company alive. Here for me is where the real speculation lies, everything else is just interpretation.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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XLA2008
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:59 am

BasilFawlty wrote:
If he's not right then please explain why all those chartered aircraft are still on standby?


It's just presumption as to why! We can draw conclusion but that does not mean the conclusion drawn is correct! It may well be... but until someone actually lets the cat out the bag with an official statement as to exactly what's going on then like I said nobody knows! Previous post kind of said that already!
“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
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adambrau
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:30 am

Whatever happens a 50-year old brand is on the brink, supposedly. A lot of staff have given years of service. Reminds me of PA last days. Sad.
Friendly Skies
 
BestWestern
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:21 am

Stress of redundancy is tough. Anyone (including me) who worked for an American airline around 9-11 knows that. The stress the pilots and crew are under at present cannot be good for inflight operations and CRM either.

The Monarch staff have already taken significant paycuts and are no doubt worried about the future as their pension fund owns 10% of the carrier. They could be left high and dry.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:26 am

BasilFawlty wrote:
If he's not right then please explain why all those chartered aircraft are still on standby?


Quite obviously, they are still on standby because they MIGHT be needed. It is also quite obvious that this is a proactive preparation for repatriation flights if such flights become inevitable. But since the CAA has granted Monarch an extension until 24 October to post the annual ATOL bond and continue in operation, it is presently impossible for anyone to know whether the need for repatriation will actually arise. The chartered aircraft are for now just insurance against that possibility.

We can speculate that an announcement will be made, perhaps within a few days or perhaps within a few weeks, that Monarch has secured some form of new financing or a new owner and will remain in business. On the other hand, a less-than-desirable announcement may be made, Monarch may fold, and the repatriation flights will take place.

Time will tell.

[EDIT] Please note that I have been kindly corrected below. The 24 October date turns out to refer to 2014,not to the current situation. It looks like the ATOL deadline is imminent.
Last edited by BobPatterson on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:49 am

Do they own the A321's outright or lease?
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:20 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Do they own the A321's outright or lease?


According to data presented at Planespotters.net, all Monarch aircraft (10-A320, 15-A321) are leased.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Monarch-Airlines
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:46 am

Seems to me the 'Brexit' vote with its subsequent economic, exchange rate and uncertainly along with the affects of terror attacks in tourism related sites in Egypt, the airport in Turkey and elsewhere hurt Monarch and its parent company Greybull hard during their peak season. Along with other busted businesses of Greybull, sounds like some some short and long term financial issues for them as well. Maybe they want to ditch Monarch, take the tax write off, go into Receivership so to ditch debts, and come out a healthier company (at least for the bosses).
 
bennett123
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:17 am

If all their planes are leased, what are their main asssets?.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:24 am

XLA2008 wrote:
BasilFawlty wrote:
If he's not right then please explain why all those chartered aircraft are still on standby?


It's just presumption as to why! We can draw conclusion but that does not mean the conclusion drawn is correct! It may well be... but until someone actually lets the cat out the bag with an official statement as to exactly what's going on then like I said nobody knows! Previous post kind of said that already!


I think people would like the free ability to use their brains and draw whatever conclusions that they will draw. The chips will fall where they may and you are welcome to come back and point to all the folks with an opinion and tell them they were wrong. In the meantime, I'm not clear on why people are not welcome to speculate, particularly given all of the anecdotal evidence of something going on behind the scenes. I see we had a Monarch pilot join and post above about how everyone is off the mark. I worry that they aren't.

Anyhow, perhaps I'm misunderstanding your myriad of posts in this thread, but it would seem that people are being told that using their observational skills, pieces of information, and good ol' common sense is not appropriate here. With all due respect, I beg to differ.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:53 am

The ATOL as tension until 24th October was for 2014, not 2016.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:16 am

BestWestern wrote:
The ATOL as tension until 24th October was for 2014, not 2016.


That was my understanding as well. This all seems to be aligning with the looming deadline at the end of this week.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
sejtam
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:46 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:37 am

Ok. relative newbie here. I just wonder. If Monarch is indeed about to fail (and from what I read, a lot is just speculation), why would there be a need to fly out large capacity planes to rescue stranded passengers? could the CAA (or whoever funds the rescue op) not use the same Monarch planes and just pay for the pilots' time and the cost of flying those planes, or fly other crews in instead of a complete set of hardware? Monarch wouldn't be using those plains, if a lessor wanted them back the CAA could pay for the one-time extra use etc..
 
Infofreako
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:40 am

I was going to ask where the info came from that the CAA had granted an extension this time?
 
EIDL
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:41 am

sejtam wrote:
Ok. relative newbie here. I just wonder. If Monarch is indeed about to fail (and from what I read, a lot is just speculation), why would there be a need to fly out large capacity planes to rescue stranded passengers? could the CAA (or whoever funds the rescue op) not use the same Monarch planes and just pay for the pilots' time and the cost of flying those planes, or fly other crews in instead of a complete set of hardware? Monarch wouldn't be using those plains, if a lessor wanted them back the CAA could pay for the one-time extra use etc..


The CAA isn't an airline - AOC, insurance, etc would be needed.
 
sejtam
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:46 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:01 am

They would not have to be an airline, just pay for the pilots (or replacement crews) to use the existing Monarch planes to fly the passengers back, no? Saves flying extra hardware possibly sitting around in addition to the crews?
 
sejtam
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:46 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:03 am

and another question: is it the CAA's responsibility to even organize such rescue flights? If not, why would they do this for Monarch? Should there not be insurance which could pay for repatriation flights in case an airline goes bust?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4646
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:04 am

You can't pay a business to fly if that business has gone bust. It has no AOC, insurance or overflying rights....

It does 't work like that.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:31 am

sejtam wrote:
and another question: is it the CAA's responsibility to even organize such rescue flights? If not, why would they do this for Monarch? Should there not be insurance which could pay for repatriation flights in case an airline goes bust?


It is unfortunately a tradition in the UK that package holiday operators and their associated airlines fail occasionally, usually around September when lots of bills fall due and they've already received most of the cash they will get for the year. As a result UK legislation established ATOL - the Air Tour Operators Licence, You can't sell package holidays without an ATOL, and it is effectively an industry-funded insurance scheme. The licence fees go into a fund which is administered by the CAA, which is why they are involved.
Unusually in the case of Monarch, not only the package holidays sold under the Monarch Holidays brand but also the flight-only bookings that just used the airline are under the ATOL umbrella. Should Monarch fail, and I very much hope they don't, the CAA as ATOL administrators are required to repatriate return ticket holders who are out of the country having used the first segment of their tickets, whether on package holidays or not.
Ironically the trigger for a failure, if it happens, is that the annual ATOL licence fee (insurance premium if you prefer) is due to be paid on September 30. If it isn't, the business has to close down as it cannot trade without a licence. Two years ago, at a time the business was up for sale, Monarch had to ask for a three week deferral of payment while cash was collected from investors to pay the fee.

Edited to correct - ATOL is the Air Tours Organisers Licence not Operators.
Last edited by Andy33 on Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
leedsstuart
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:37 am

Re: Rumor: Monarch to cease ops?

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:39 am

sejtam wrote:
They would not have to be an airline, just pay for the pilots (or replacement crews) to use the existing Monarch planes to fly the passengers back, no? Saves flying extra hardware possibly sitting around in addition to the crews?



Surely the Aircraft would be impounded the second they landed in lieu of owed money to Airport / fuel providers.

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