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Boeing778X
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First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:14 pm

The latest iteration of the versatile A330 taking shape! :)

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... o-toulouse
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Erebus
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:18 pm

"Since launching the program at the 2014 Farnborough International Airshow, Airbus has collected orders for more than 300 A330neos from 13 new customers"

Where did they get 300 from???
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:22 pm

According to Wiki, 184 orders from 9 customers.

We missing something? :O
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flee
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:26 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
According to Wiki, 184 orders from 9 customers.

We missing something? :O

To date, 10 customers have ordered a total of 186 A330neo.

Source: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -toulouse/
 
tvh
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:55 pm

Erebus wrote:
"Since launching the program at the 2014 Farnborough International Airshow, Airbus has collected orders for more than 300 A330neos from 13 new customers"

Where did they get 300 from???


300 A330 orders. Yes, but they are not all neo, but if you include the ceo's....
 
Flyingabout
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:20 pm

Is the A330neo wing radically different to the ceo variant? Or is it more like the current one with a350-style winglets?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:37 am

Flyingabout wrote:
Is the A330neo wing radically different to the ceo variant? Or is it more like the current one with a350-style winglets?


It is the same wing, but strengthened in regard to the new engines and the oversized winglets. The winglets first extend the wing straight and than curve up and backwards, the curved part is similar to the A350 winglets.
 
DeSpringbokke
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:19 am

Wow that was quick. Any news of a potential three tonne increase to 245 tonnes?
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:37 am

Do we know when the first A330-800 will start production? I assume this is an A330-900 that will be first. Do we know who will get the first A339?
 
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:40 am

The A330 is by far my favorite aircraft, I'm sure the NEO will be absolutely stunning!
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LAX772LR
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:45 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Flyingabout wrote:
Is the A330neo wing radically different to the ceo variant? Or is it more like the current one with a350-style winglets?


It is the same wing, but strengthened in regard to the new engines and the oversized winglets. The winglets first extend the wing straight and than curve up and backwards, the curved part is similar to the A350 winglets.

Also, like the current A330HGWs being offered as -CEOs, the A330NEOs will not have several systems common to the A340, that earlier A330CEOs once had.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
kaitak744
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:06 am

flee wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
According to Wiki, 184 orders from 9 customers.

We missing something? :O

To date, 10 customers have ordered a total of 186 A330neo.

Source: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -toulouse/


actual airline commitments:

A330-900
Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119, of which over half is from an airline that may not take all of them.

A330-800 (probably won't get built in my opinion)
Hawaiian: 6
Transasia Airways: 4
TOTAL: 10
 
mjoelnir
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:47 am

kaitak744 wrote:
flee wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
According to Wiki, 184 orders from 9 customers.

We missing something? :O

To date, 10 customers have ordered a total of 186 A330neo.

Source: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -toulouse/


actual airline commitments:

A330-900
Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119, of which over half is from an airline that may not take all of them.

A330-800 (probably won't get built in my opinion)
Hawaiian: 6
Transasia Airways: 4
TOTAL: 10


Do you imply that leasing companies ordering frames have a history of not taking them?
 
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817Dreamliiner
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:52 am

mjoelnir wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
flee wrote:
To date, 10 customers have ordered a total of 186 A330neo.

Source: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-e ... -toulouse/


actual airline commitments:

A330-900
Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119, of which over half is from an airline that may not take all of them.

A330-800 (probably won't get built in my opinion)
Hawaiian: 6
Transasia Airways: 4
TOTAL: 10


Do you imply that leasing companies ordering frames have a history of not taking them?

I believe he is referring to Air Asia X.
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LAX772LR
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:58 am

Where do the orders stand when the leasing companies are factored in? Wasn't ALC the launch order for the A330NEO?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:01 am

It's 186 firm orders.

The A320/737/A330/787/A350/777 books are full with lessor orders; leaving out the lessors is odd.
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:38 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
rbrunner
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:42 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Do we know when the first A330-800 will start production? I assume this is an A330-900 that will be first. Do we know who will get the first A339?

We do. TAP Portugal will get the first one towards the end of 2017.
 
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speedbored
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:53 am

KarelXWB wrote:
leaving out the lessors is odd.

Yes. Especially when almost all of them are backed up by "airline commitments" made to the leasing company.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:15 am

I don't think it is fair to leave the leasing company orders off the list, but I will say the mix of airlines vs leasing companies is a bit odd for a new launch. Usually leasing companies are not the first companies to commit to an airplane. Usually it is a few major airlines who launch an airplane and order many of the initial planes. There are always teething issues to start out and leasing companies usually don't like getting the first airplanes off a production line in case the airline that they are leasing to backs out of the deal. Do we have any idea about who those planes will go to?

I do wonder about the A330-800. Ten orders is a really small number. I suspect that Hawaiian is really regretting the A358 order that has turned into the A338, which will be an orphan. I wonder if Airbus wants to build the plane and also wonder about the new components on the A338 that aren't common to the A339 or A332. That could create a spare parts nightmare. It also will mean that Hawaiian better plan on flying the plane for 20+ years since there will be no secondary market for the plane. Would Airbus push Hawaiian to the A339? If Airbus tries to do that, would, Hawaiian consider cancelling the order all together?
 
parapente
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:15 pm

Newbiepiloy.
I do wonder about the A330-800. Ten orders is a really small number.

Ahh that (sort of) MOM area - The elephants graveyard!
It (8) may well not be made IMHO.They would be better off with a 788 I would have thought.Mind you if the range is ok'ish then perhaps the -9.
 
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:27 pm

parapente wrote:
Newbiepiloy.
I do wonder about the A330-800. Ten orders is a really small number.

Ahh that (sort of) MOM area - The elephants graveyard!
It (8) may well not be made IMHO.They would be better off with a 788 I would have thought.Mind you if the range is ok'ish then perhaps the -9.

Why should anyone buy a plane now that Boeing would like to discontinue as early as possible.
A bit carried away by "fan"tastics, are we?
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Polot
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:37 pm

rbrunner wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Do we know when the first A330-800 will start production? I assume this is an A330-900 that will be first. Do we know who will get the first A339?

We do. TAP Portugal will get the first one towards the end of 2017.

When is the first flight? First delivery by end of 2017 seems quick, I would have expected early 2018, although I suspect "end of 2017" likely means late November/early December at the earliest, and only 1 or 2 frames that year.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:41 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I don't think it is fair to leave the leasing company orders off the list, but I will say the mix of airlines vs leasing companies is a bit odd for a new launch. Usually leasing companies are not the first companies to commit to an airplane. Usually it is a few major airlines who launch an airplane and order many of the initial planes. There are always teething issues to start out and leasing companies usually don't like getting the first airplanes off a production line in case the airline that they are leasing to backs out of the deal. Do we have any idea about who those planes will go to?


The 787-10 was launched with a bunch of lessors as well.

Lessors have a pretty large A330 customer base and pushed Airbus to re-engine the jet because they see a big market where they can make a lot of money. Here are two articles explaining why lessors like the A330 so much:

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... nrealistic
https://leehamnews.com/2016/03/09/boein ... d-arrival/
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KarelXWB
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:42 pm

Polot wrote:
rbrunner wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Do we know when the first A330-800 will start production? I assume this is an A330-900 that will be first. Do we know who will get the first A339?

We do. TAP Portugal will get the first one towards the end of 2017.

When is the first flight? First delivery by end of 2017 seems quick, I would have expected early 2018, although I suspect "end of 2017" likely means late November/early December at the earliest, and only 1 or 2 frames that year.


First flight is currently scheduled for early 2017, the flight test campaign should take around about 9 months. First delivery is currently scheduled for Q4 2017.
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:40 pm

[quote="WIederling"][quote="parapente"]Newbiepiloy.
I do wonder about the A330-800. Ten orders is a really small number.

There will eventually be a requirement for a MRTT and Freighter platform - unless Airbus plans to offer the 330-200 ceo indefinitely
 
mjoelnir
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:50 pm

817Dreamliiner wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:

actual airline commitments:

A330-900
Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119, of which over half is from an airline that may not take all of them.

A330-800 (probably won't get built in my opinion)
Hawaiian: 6
Transasia Airways: 4
TOTAL: 10


Do you imply that leasing companies ordering frames have a history of not taking them?

I believe he is referring to Air Asia X.


I am referring about not counting the 55 frames ordered by leasing companies and if he wants to say that Air Asia will not take all ordered frames he should say so.
 
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Revelation
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:54 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
I don't think it is fair to leave the leasing company orders off the list, but I will say the mix of airlines vs leasing companies is a bit odd for a new launch. Usually leasing companies are not the first companies to commit to an airplane. Usually it is a few major airlines who launch an airplane and order many of the initial planes. There are always teething issues to start out and leasing companies usually don't like getting the first airplanes off a production line in case the airline that they are leasing to backs out of the deal. Do we have any idea about who those planes will go to?


I think we shouldn't think of this as a "new airplane". The engine tech is largely proven on earlier TXWB engines and the rest of the changes are minor. The leasing firms know this, and they also know they have had good success placing the A330ceo models.

Newbiepilot wrote:
I do wonder about the A330-800. Ten orders is a really small number. I suspect that Hawaiian is really regretting the A358 order that has turned into the A338, which will be an orphan. I wonder if Airbus wants to build the plane and also wonder about the new components on the A338 that aren't common to the A339 or A332. That could create a spare parts nightmare. It also will mean that Hawaiian better plan on flying the plane for 20+ years since there will be no secondary market for the plane. Would Airbus push Hawaiian to the A339? If Airbus tries to do that, would, Hawaiian consider cancelling the order all together?


I think Hawaiian has been pretty adamant about what they want, and I think Airbus wants to keep them as a customer. The -800 size is also convenient for an eventual freighter or tanker variant.
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:59 pm

Airbus definitely won't drop the A338 as long as Boeing has the 788 to offer.
 
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:15 pm

Polot wrote:
Airbus definitely won't drop the A338 as long as Boeing has the 788 to offer.


This is what I got for asking ( Dec. 2015 ) :
Mr Daly, Airbus , formerly FlightGlobal:
A330 MRTT is based on A330-200 and it is not currently on the agenda to produce a version based on any A330 NEO variant. However, the MRTT will continue to be produced, incorporating upgrades to the green aircraft where considered appropriate.
Murphy is an optimist
 
kaitak744
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:50 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
817Dreamliiner wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Do you imply that leasing companies ordering frames have a history of not taking them?

I believe he is referring to Air Asia X.


I am referring about not counting the 55 frames ordered by leasing companies and if he wants to say that Air Asia will not take all ordered frames he should say so.


I believe that Air Asia order may be a bit big for what they can really take, but that is just conjecture.
 
kaitak744
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:51 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
It's 186 firm orders.

The A320/737/A330/787/A350/777 books are full with lessor orders; leaving out the lessors is odd.


Yes, lessors do count. But, if you want a clear picture of which airlines actually have committed to the aircraft, there is the list. If you can point to an airline that has committed to a lease, then il add them to that list as well.

As of now there are 4 airlines that have committed to the A330-900 with 119 orders, of which over half is Air Asia. I personally have nothing against this aircraft, but those numbers don't look like a good endorsement from the market to me.

Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119
 
Lpbri
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:17 pm

Some are conversions of A350s
 
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:30 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
It's 186 firm orders.

The A320/737/A330/787/A350/777 books are full with lessor orders; leaving out the lessors is odd.


Yes, lessors do count. But, if you want a clear picture of which airlines actually have committed to the aircraft, there is the list. If you can point to an airline that has committed to a lease, then il add them to that list as well.

As of now there are 4 airlines that have committed to the A330-900 with 119 orders, of which over half is Air Asia. I personally have nothing against this aircraft, but those numbers don't look like a good endorsement from the market to me.

Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119


121, MH have 2 that will be leased from ALC.

I think that Airbus could have sold more, but have been more focused on bridging the gap, which is why you have orders such as IAG's one not so long ago. I also think that the Chinese airlines will order them in due course, they're a huge market for A330s.
 
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:58 pm

Lpbri wrote:
Some are conversions of A350s

And of A330CEOs as well
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:04 am

KarelXWB wrote:
https://leehamnews.com/2016/03/09/boeing-says-airbus-widebody-strategy-mess-a330neo-dead-arrival/

This article has a very interesting quote, that I wish we had the info to delve a bit more deeply into:

The average stage length for the A330 is 1,800 miles.

Even taking into account intra-Asian regional flights, that still seems to be a rather low number.
I wonder if it's just a an average of THEIR A330 customers, rather than A330s overall?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
mjoelnir
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:35 am

The A330 was the best selling wide body family in 2015 with 136 net orders, this year there are 20 A330ceo and 14 A330neo net orders, not a lot, but more than the 787 (19) or the 777 (8) or slightly more than the A350 (33).
The orders of the leasing companies I value at least as much as direct orders by airlines, as leasing companies go seldom for high risk. As there are still new orders for the A330-200 coming in, I expect also more A330-800, perhaps even some conversion, as all orders from leasing companies are A330-900, but conversions are easily possible.
 
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:50 am

parapente wrote:
Newbiepiloy.
I do wonder about the A330-800. Ten orders is a really small number.

Ahh that (sort of) MOM area - The elephants graveyard!
It (8) may well not be made IMHO.They would be better off with a 788 I would have thought.Mind you if the range is ok'ish then perhaps the -9.


The A350-800 still has more orders than the A330-800neo, and that thing is, for all intents and purposes, DEAD.

Sad about the A358. Would've actually looked pretty cool, IMO. Proportional, no, but nevertheless...Eh :(

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airzona11
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:25 am

Those are cool looking winglets!

What happens to the flight assembly lines. They are building A350s now and A330CEOs. Do the A330CEO gets wound down to A330NEOs then eventually more A350s? Or are the A350s on their own flight assembly line?
 
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zkojq
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:16 am

At this stage, the A330neo's orderbook is a bit disappointing however I do expect that to change. There was an article about three months ago that pointed out how roughly 1/2 of A330 operators hadn't committed to a replacement. Plenty of these carriers don't need the 787-8's long range capabilities and won't want to pay for them. Especially in Asia.

Case in point; I can see Cathay Pacific/Cathay Dragon ordering quite a few of them for regional flying. Same with China Airlines, Garuda, Turkish etc. There's probably a few to be sold to some of the European holiday carriers that operate old widebody aircraft. Thomas Cook, Condor etc.

Honestly, I think the biggest reason that the A330neo hasn't sold better is that a lot of carriers have replaced their older A330s with newer ones in the last five years or so. Malaysian, Thai and Philippine Airlines have all done that. Cathay Pacific to a lesser extent also, with their older A330s being passed onto Cathay Dragon. If the A330neo had been on offer five years ago, I would be very surprised if all of these carriers didn't place orders for -900.

kaitak744 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
It's 186 firm orders.

The A320/737/A330/787/A350/777 books are full with lessor orders; leaving out the lessors is odd.


Yes, lessors do count. But, if you want a clear picture of which airlines actually have committed to the aircraft, there is the list. If you can point to an airline that has committed to a lease, then il add them to that list as well.

As of now there are 4 airlines that have committed to the A330-900 with 119 orders, of which over half is Air Asia. I personally have nothing against this aircraft, but those numbers don't look like a good endorsement from the market to me.

Delta: 25
Air Asia X: 66
TAP: 14
Garuda: 14
TOTAL: 119

What about the four that Arkia ordered?
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Channex737
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:27 am

zkojq wrote:
There's probably a few to be sold to some of the European holiday carriers that operate old widebody aircraft. Thomas Cook, Condor etc.


I agree with this sentiment, especially Thomas cook, some of their older A330s have garnered a reputation, G-OMYT comes to mind, so I reckon NEO purchase from TCX wouldn't surprise me
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flee
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:46 am

It is still early days yet for the A330neo family. It already has a healthy order book and the first two years' production is more or less spoken for.

We have seen that A330 customers do not really make spectacular headline orders like those of Airasia X. However, they place steady orders over time - that is why you still see A330ceo orders still coming in this year whereas orders for B777s have more or less dried up. The customer profile for A330s is somewhat unconventional in some ways.

I would think that once the A339 enters commercial service and operating data becomes available, more and more airlines will begin to place orders to replace their older A330s. I would be surprised if the order book is not closer to 500, come 2020.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:55 am

zkojq wrote:
At this stage, the A330neo's orderbook is a bit disappointing however I do expect that to change. There was an article about three months ago that pointed out how roughly 1/2 of A330 operators hadn't committed to a replacement. Plenty of these carriers don't need the 787-8's long range capabilities and won't want to pay for them. Especially in Asia.


Indeed. There are over 100 A330 customers and half of them have not yet ordered a next generation aircraft. There's huge potential.

Also, Airbus sees a business case for 1,000 A330neo aircraft. With close to 200 orders they already reached 1/5 of that target. From this point of view, the A330neo is on the right path.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:18 am

KarelXWB wrote:
zkojq wrote:
At this stage, the A330neo's orderbook is a bit disappointing however I do expect that to change. There was an article about three months ago that pointed out how roughly 1/2 of A330 operators hadn't committed to a replacement. Plenty of these carriers don't need the 787-8's long range capabilities and won't want to pay for them. Especially in Asia.


Indeed. There are over 100 A330 customers and half of them have not yet ordered a next generation aircraft. There's huge potential.

Also, Airbus sees a business case for 1,000 A330neo aircraft. With close to 200 orders they already reached 1/5 of that target. From this point of view, the A330neo is on the right path.


There are a lot of A330s out there flying. One problem with looking at the A330 fleet size and seeing huge potential is that many of those planes are not close to a replacement cycle for all but a few airlines. Airlines keeping planes 10-12 years is not normal. Most keep them 15-25 years. The problem with the NEO is whether or not the airplane will actually capture the A330 replacement market. There is a reason why in the widebody segment, Boeing and Airbus keep growing the replacement airplanes when they create a new family. The market that they are replacing is the fleet that is 20 years old. While many A330s are that old, most are not.

Will the A330neo still be in production in ten years when the A330ceo fleet sees rapid retirements? The next waive of widebody retirements is the 777-200 and 777-200ER. The A330neo is a step down in capacity. There are still some 767s that need retirement. However a significant section of section of the A330neo market is going to be growth airlines like Air Asia X. If the aviation segment grows well over the next 5-10 years then I certainly see the low cost A330 gaining new customers since growing airlines are often focuses on low costs. However just focusing on the replacement cycle will not be enough. I think many airlines replacing 767s and some old A330s will be attracted to the lower operating costs and increased flexibility that the 787 range offers and it will be a dogfight for Airbus to win those orders. The A330neo has big potential in Asia, but the 787 is a formidable competitor.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9396
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:40 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
zkojq wrote:
At this stage, the A330neo's orderbook is a bit disappointing however I do expect that to change. There was an article about three months ago that pointed out how roughly 1/2 of A330 operators hadn't committed to a replacement. Plenty of these carriers don't need the 787-8's long range capabilities and won't want to pay for them. Especially in Asia.


Indeed. There are over 100 A330 customers and half of them have not yet ordered a next generation aircraft. There's huge potential.

Also, Airbus sees a business case for 1,000 A330neo aircraft. With close to 200 orders they already reached 1/5 of that target. From this point of view, the A330neo is on the right path.


There are a lot of A330s out there flying. One problem with looking at the A330 fleet size and seeing huge potential is that many of those planes are not close to a replacement cycle for all but a few airlines. Airlines keeping planes 10-12 years is not normal. Most keep them 15-25 years. The problem with the NEO is whether or not the airplane will actually capture the A330 replacement market. There is a reason why in the widebody segment, Boeing and Airbus keep growing the replacement airplanes when they create a new family. The market that they are replacing is the fleet that is 20 years old. While many A330s are that old, most are not.

Will the A330neo still be in production in ten years when the A330ceo fleet sees rapid retirements? The next waive of widebody retirements is the 777-200 and 777-200ER. The A330neo is a step down in capacity. There are still some 767s that need retirement. However a significant section of section of the A330neo market is going to be growth airlines like Air Asia X. If the aviation segment grows well over the next 5-10 years then I certainly see the low cost A330 gaining new customers since growing airlines are often focuses on low costs. However just focusing on the replacement cycle will not be enough. I think many airlines replacing 767s and some old A330s will be attracted to the lower operating costs and increased flexibility that the 787 range offers and it will be a dogfight for Airbus to win those orders. The A330neo has big potential in Asia, but the 787 is a formidable competitor.


But as it is the A330 gets the new orders. Last year double the number as the 787 and this year also above in numbers compared to the 787. In 2015 Airbus booked 136 A330 and delivered 103. This year the A330 managed 34 orders against 19 787. Add to that, that Airbus has taken the monthly production rate down to 6 frames a month, with a yearly production rate of 74 frames. It is likely that Airbus has to increase that again.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:48 pm

How much more fuel does the A330-900Neo use, pitted against the B787-8. Interestingly the UN is working towards pricing carbon. I wonder what kind of impact this has on the volume between the A330-900 and the B787-8/9.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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zkojq
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:45 pm

Channex737 wrote:
I agree with this sentiment, especially Thomas cook, some of their older A330s have garnered a reputation, G-OMYT comes to mind, so I reckon NEO purchase from TCX wouldn't surprise me

I think the same could be said for much of Air Transat's fleet. They've also got a tonne of A310s in need of replacement.

flee wrote:
We have seen that A330 customers do not really make spectacular headline orders like those of Airasia X. However, they place steady orders over time - that is why you still see A330ceo orders still coming in this year whereas orders for B777s have more or less dried up. The customer profile for A330s is somewhat unconventional in some ways.


I would also make the comment that a lot of A330 operators have only a few widebody aircraft in their fleet. Carriers like Gulf Air, Air Mauritius, Corsair, Lion Air, Cebu Pacific, Aerolineas Argentinas, Evelop/Orbest, Azul, Brussels, Shaheen and Virgin Australia have only a handful of them. The A330 market is certainly one with high liquidity; I guess that's one of the reasons why lessors love the plane so much.


Newbiepilot wrote:
There are a lot of A330s out there flying. One problem with looking at the A330 fleet size and seeing huge potential is that many of those planes are not close to a replacement cycle for all but a few airlines. Airlines keeping planes 10-12 years is not normal. Most keep them 15-25 years. The problem with the NEO is whether or not the airplane will actually capture the A330 replacement market. There is a reason why in the widebody segment, Boeing and Airbus keep growing the replacement airplanes when they create a new family. The market that they are replacing is the fleet that is 20 years old. While many A330s are that old, most are not.

Well yeah. As I said in a previous post; a problem for Airbus is that a lot of operators of early A330s have already replaced them with newbuild ones, so won't been needing A330neos in the near term.
First to fly the 787-9
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9396
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:18 pm

Dutchy wrote:
How much more fuel does the A330-900Neo use, pitted against the B787-8. Interestingly the UN is working towards pricing carbon. I wonder what kind of impact this has on the volume between the A330-900 and the B787-8/9.


It will be a single digit, with perhaps an advantage for the A330 on shorter trips and a growing disadvantage on longer trips compared to the 787. The A330 should be the lower investment.
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 21861
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Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:18 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Also, like the current A330HGWs being offered as -CEOs, the A330NEOs will not have several systems common to the A340, that earlier A330CEOs once had.


Isn't there also some change to the leading edge anti-ice ducting or something to do with the bleed air system in the NEO vs the CEO?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9396
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: First A330neo Starts Final Assembly

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:29 am

DocLightning wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Also, like the current A330HGWs being offered as -CEOs, the A330NEOs will not have several systems common to the A340, that earlier A330CEOs once had.


Isn't there also some change to the leading edge anti-ice ducting or something to do with the bleed air system in the NEO vs the CEO?


Electric actuators replacing pneumatic ones.

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