upwardfacing
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:41 am

Can't really disagree, other than point out that NYC-BOM and YYZ-BOM are very different animals (as is YYZ-DEL allegedly).


From an operations and scheduling point of view, which you alluded to earlier, they are nearly identical.

With respect to AF/KL/DL and Jet, your musings aside, the only significant thing going on is that that they needed a partner to cover India, and now they can have someone else do a lot of the legwork for them more cheaply than they could themselves. The only interesting detail is this: whereas AF/KL and 9W codeshare with Etihad, Delta refuses to.

Pretty much no airline from either Europe or the Americas, except Air Canada obviously, wants to expand nonstop service to India, as it's simply too low yielding across all cabins. Fares are quite low relative to the distance travelled, and indirect competition is extremely high. As such they would rather allocate their resources elsewhere.
 
upwardfacing
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:14 am

Just to add, I doubt that AC would be too concerned about 9W and its newfound friendship with AF-KL/DL. The one-stopper via AMS from YYZ to DEL is not at all competitive compared to AC's nonstops. Air Canada simply has a stronger customer base within Canada. Moreover AC has its own TATL JV with Lufthansa, United, etc., which extends to all the way to the Subcontinent, and even co-operates with Air India through both DXB and DEL (and next year BOM) to drive even more flows.

Really, once they launch JNB and SIN, I think AC will be well prepared for a new UAE-Canada bilateral. They just needed to do a few things first. ;)
 
T1b2d3
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:58 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:09 am

Indian passport holders needing a visa to visit the US, right now need a separate transit visa to connect through Canada.

Canada has in the past tweaked its transit visa rules for citizens of Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, and Taiwan such that designated airlines can sponsor for this transit visa, with the passengers not having to do anything. Airlines need to show a business case on how this will help Canada.

The new India-Canada routes will benefit if Indian passport holders who are neither Canadian/US permanent residents can transit through a Canadian airport without the requirement for a Canadian transit visa.

For instance, if I need to fly from BOM to any US destination through Canada, I will need a transit visa. Why bother getting one when I can fly one-stop through Europe or Asia or the ME without having the need for a transit visa through any of those airports?
 
upwardfacing
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:20 am

Yes, this is why citizens of India, and so many other countries, find transits through the Gulf to the rest of the world to be such a compelling option. There is also the peace of mind that if you miss a connection, there is almost certainly another flight available within a few hours.

For citizens of a number of countries, European transits (even within the sterile area of an international airport) require a visa as well.
 
Topguncanada
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:44 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:50 am

FWIW I believe YVR-NGO was suspended October 26, 2001 and YVR-TPE was suspended a year later October 28th 2002. It's good to see these former Canadian Airlines routes finally being resumed by AC. In the late 90s YVR-TPE CP17/18 were a daily 747-400.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:55 pm

OGLOBAL wrote:
i am guessing the BEY rumour was false ..


Not necessarily. Still plenty of time to announce BEY service for a May or June start next year.

Rouge is getting 6 B763s next year, so there is still room to announce a few other routes.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:05 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
i am guessing the BEY rumour was false ..


Not necessarily. Still plenty of time to announce BEY service for a May or June start next year.

Rouge is getting 6 B763s next year, so there is still room to announce a few other routes.



I really hope so but i find it hard to believe I've been to Beirut recently and there are basically residential apartments adjacent to the runway and small security breaches i.e a child was able to board a flight to IST with no passport id or ticket.

demand is definitely there though.
 
User avatar
CanadaFair
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:22 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:04 pm

Also in talks with Iranian authoriities for Tehran service.
 
User avatar
nimool
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:12 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
Also in talks with Iranian authoriities for Tehran service.


Yes, that all over Iranian media, apparently for YUL-IKA !
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
filipair
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:28 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:35 pm

Here I am hoping for WAW to go year round plus have YUL-WAW and YYZ-KRK added for S18. ;) Does anyone have concrete data on the size of the market?
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:17 am

filipair wrote:
Here I am hoping for WAW to go year round plus have YUL-WAW and YYZ-KRK added for S18. ;) Does anyone have concrete data on the size of the market?


Wishful thinking on all three fronts!

nimool wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
Also in talks with Iranian authoriities for Tehran service.


Yes, that all over Iranian media, apparently for YUL-IKA !


Interesting. Pretty sure there is a bigger Iranian community in Toronto. Any Iran service would be from YYZ if you ask me.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:05 am

nname wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Good luck with TPE. China Airlines and EVA both fill their 747 flights for peanuts. CI has great service and EVA has *A benefits. Not sure what AC can bring to the table.


The TPE-YVR and TPE-YYZ route consistently have LF in the low- to mid-90s, even higher during peak season. BR wanted daily or more for both routes, but they are limited to 5x weekly each due to bilateral restriction. Even more problem as BR will be replacing their 744 with 77W for the YVR route most likely in 2017. As BR is being forced to reduce capacity by more than 10% on a route that gets 98-99% LF for the busy months, there's the opportunity for AC.


Yes LF I'm the 90s and yet hemmoraging money. They yields are ridiculous. CX absorbs all the premium traffic. CI and BR are left with the crumbs. And that's nothing new to be honest. China Airlines and EVA often engage in a war of bloodbath yields in the hope the other will give up.
 
User avatar
nimool
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:31 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
filipair wrote:
Here I am hoping for WAW to go year round plus have YUL-WAW and YYZ-KRK added for S18. ;) Does anyone have concrete data on the size of the market?


Wishful thinking on all three fronts!

nimool wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
Also in talks with Iranian authoriities for Tehran service.


Yes, that all over Iranian media, apparently for YUL-IKA !


Interesting. Pretty sure there is a bigger Iranian community in Toronto. Any Iran service would be from YYZ if you ask me.



Indeed, I was surprised reading about YUL, YYZ would much better. probably a mixup in the media interpretation or just a guess from the media sources?
I also read IKA - SYD are in talks for Mahan, and all the paper works from Mahan's service to Gatwick is done, and they're awaiting government approval or something?
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
caribb
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:26 pm

nimool wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
filipair wrote:
Here I am hoping for WAW to go year round plus have YUL-WAW and YYZ-KRK added for S18. ;) Does anyone have concrete data on the size of the market?


Wishful thinking on all three fronts!

nimool wrote:

Yes, that all over Iranian media, apparently for YUL-IKA !


Interesting. Pretty sure there is a bigger Iranian community in Toronto. Any Iran service would be from YYZ if you ask me.



Indeed, I was surprised reading about YUL, YYZ would much better. probably a mixup in the media interpretation or just a guess from the media sources?
I also read IKA - SYD are in talks for Mahan, and all the paper works from Mahan's service to Gatwick is done, and they're awaiting government approval or something?


As a Montrealer I'd love to see this but even I have to admit it would make more sense out of YYZ. I 'm not aware of a sizable Iranian community in Montreal and would presume it would be larger in Toronto but I'm only speculating. It's also not a destination in Air Canada's master strategy for YUL (Francophonie & global hubs)... But you never know, fingers crossed.

Update. I just checked online and according to one source the largest community of Canadian Iranians in 2006 was in Toronto, then Vancouver then Montreal. 46,000, 30,000 10,000 respectively. Today's there's over 200,000 in Canada. I can't imagine that distribution changing radically.
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:53 pm

I played last year for an Iranian gathering. Maybe not enough to fill up a daily 77W, but there is an organized community here in Montreal.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
User avatar
CanadaFair
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:22 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:33 pm

Why would they use a 77W when they have 787?
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:08 pm

Given that there is no direct North America to Iran air service currently available any flight at this point would be all about transfers. Maybe there is more/cheaper facility capacity available for AC at YUL right now?
 
1900Driver
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:12 pm

LAX772LR wrote:


I'm not saying there's no way to renegotiate a bilateral; I'm saying that there's no way around the fact that it's easier for AC to compete against the ME3, than it is for airlines of a market with which (any of) the ME3 have the ability to add as much frequency/capacity as they want.


That's not a fair statement. Can you think of any reason where the UAE has leverage over US & Europe leading to inaction over open skies? If bombardier manufactured widebody aircraft, don't you think an openskies agreement would have been signed in exchange for orders? It's plain vanilla, you should understand this.
[/quote]

LAX772LR wrote:

No one here has said anything about unilateral.


Of course you did! Hence your overt bias towards the Cdn Gov. A less rhetorical approach would have pointed the finger at the Cdn Gov & UAE gov for signing the agreement.

Skywatcher wrote:

Given that there is no direct North America to Iran air service currently available any flight at this point would be all about transfers. Maybe there is more/cheaper facility capacity available for AC at YUL right now?


Would present a nice opportunity for AC. Perhaps in 2018 or 2019? If they're able to absorb this in their growth plans?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12323
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:39 pm

1900Driver wrote:
Can you think of any reason where the UAE has leverage over US & Europe leading to inaction over open skies?

Sure can:
"Nice military base that you've got there on our land... be a shame if it had to close."


1900Driver wrote:
Of course you did! Hence your overt bias towards the Cdn Gov. A less rhetorical approach would have pointed the finger at the Cdn Gov & UAE gov for signing the agreement.

Here's the problem with that: one side is pushing to liberalize the agreement. The other, is not. Hence pointing the finger.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
1900Driver
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:13 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
1900Driver wrote:
Can you think of any reason where the UAE has leverage over US & Europe leading to inaction over open skies?

Sure can:
"Nice military base that you've got there on our land... be a shame if it had to close."


Completely missed the point. Boeing & Airbus are fighting for orders. Would be a shame if Boeing lost 777X orders for 350s over the amendment of openskies. Imagine the political backlash on Obama over job losses. If the UAE really wants to get into the Canadian market, perhaps ordering a few c series for a smaller carrier would grant EK landing slots. The Canadian Gov is desperately looking for economic wins, especially for the C series orders. Not too late now for Al baker to try, given that Bombardier is desperate for new orders.

The UAE didn't care to mess with the Canadians, but they wouldn't even dare try to do same with the US military!

Here's the problem with that: one side is pushing to liberalize the agreement. The other, is not. Hence pointing the finger


Of course, they want everything their way. This time the UAE better bring something material to the table & not mess up like last time.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12323
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:20 pm

1900Driver wrote:
Completely missed the point.

I didn't miss your point, I just disagreed with it.
Try not to confuse the two.


1900Driver wrote:
Boeing & Airbus are fighting for orders. Would be a shame if Boeing lost 777X orders for 350s over the amendment of openskies.

Possible, but somewhat stifled, considering both sides know that Airbus alone cannot furnish EK's aggressive fleet plans by itself, not within the time frame that it wants/needs them. Same for Boeing.


1900Driver wrote:
Imagine the political backlash on Obama over job losses.

Would go right along with the kitchen sink.
Hardly a consideration.


1900Driver wrote:
If the UAE really wants to get into the Canadian market, perhaps ordering a few c series for a smaller carrier would grant EK landing slots. The Canadian Gov is desperately looking for economic wins, especially for the C series orders.

You *honestly* think that EK/EY haven't thought of/considered/bargained for that on their own.............


1900Driver wrote:
but they wouldn't even dare try to do same with the US military!

What are you talking about, that's one of the key bargaining chips they've used with the US for decades.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
1900Driver
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:47 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
1900Driver wrote:
Completely missed the point.

I didn't miss your point, I just disagreed with it.
Try not to confuse the two.


1900Driver wrote:
Boeing & Airbus are fighting for orders. Would be a shame if Boeing lost 777X orders for 350s over the amendment of openskies.

Possible, but somewhat stifled, considering both sides know that Airbus alone cannot furnish EK's aggressive fleet plans by itself, not within the time frame that it wants/needs them.
Would go right along with the kitchen sink.
Hardly a consideration.


No way, very false assumption! Despite the duopoly, competition has been fierce. The lobbying battle between manufacturers & airlines ( & respective unions as well) in the US was hard fought. Both sides claim job losses as part of their case. GDP growth is very anemic in the western world & job losses can tip the balance towards slower growth or even recessionary gaps in the economy. It seems that the Obama administration chose the industrial manufacturing sector over the airlines. (which I don't blame) The UAE is using their orders books as leverage. Have you not heard Richard Anderson publically criticizing the EXIM bank as unfair?

I hope you realize the extent of the relationship between the UAE & US is not limited to aviation. There's much more at stake & the UAE can't afford to be at odds with the Americans. Do you sincerely believe they would sacrifice US investment for a base? Who would they turn to, the Russians? That would insinuate a political game of chicken whereby the UAE would wimp out first. Threatening to force US bases is just noise these days! They have too much to loose.

You *honestly* think that EK/EY haven't thought of/considered/bargained for that on their own.............


QR did & still can. It doesn't have to be EK/EY necessarily, there are other carriers or options in the UAE. You have to understand that the UAE simply can't expect things to be "liberalized" to their convenience. They need to bring something material to the table. That's how bilaterals & trade agreements work.
 
User avatar
CanadaFair
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:22 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:46 pm

Can Etihad upgauge YYZ to A380?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:59 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
Can Etihad upgauge YYZ to A380?


The bilateral has no restrictions on aircraft type.
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:16 pm

Hope not to get flamed!

Firstly why are Middle East bilateral being discussed in a thread that is for non-Middle Eastern destinations? Wasn't there enough on the DXB thread :)

Secondly do we see a future YYZ-KHI route? PIA I believe now goes 4 times weekly and EK, EY,TK get quite a bit of traffic to KHI, LHE & ISB though I am not sure of premium traffic. Just board any of the flights mentioned above and there is a chunk of us lol.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:18 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
C7an Etihad upgauge YYZ to A380?


I would wet my pants if EY sent their A380s to YYZ!!!
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12323
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:15 am

1900Driver wrote:
No way, very false assumption!

Nothing presumptive about it: simple logistics.

Neither OEM can meet EK's current expansion plans in the time frame that the airline wants, alone. The production slots don't exist.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
sebring
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:02 am

Back to Air Canada

One of AC's goals is Tehran - negotiations with authorities there are under way
 
behramjee
Posts: 4932
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:26 am

The P2P round trip demand for these new routes in 2015 were as follows:

• YYZ-BOM 76,000
• YVR-TPE 102,000
• YUL-ALG 71,000
• YVR-NGO 12,000
• YUL-MRS 39,000
• YYZ-TXL 24,000

It is very pleasing to see AC take the bold initiative and attack niche + volumetric VFR markets where the changing market conditions + lower fuel prices combined with efficient aircraft deploy able change the entire landscape.

Out of the above mentioned new routes, YUL-ALG has the most potential of doing well followed by YYZ-BOM (considering the success they have had with YYZ-DEL). However, YVR-TPE though a large market segment, already has 2 well established airlines such as Eva Air + China Airlines operating it so competing against their low prices in particular will be interesting to see. Yes many can argue that YVR-MNL would have been a more safer bet considering the demand from Canada to MNL is more than double to TPE however for the flying time distance (out of YVR), the yields into TPE are 35% higher versus Manila plus better two way cargo opportunities !

There is one route which I do not think has a good chance of succeeding and that is YVR-NGO due to its low all round demand. Instead, future consideration should be given to TSN-Tianjin out of Vancouver as this city has good future potential for a year round 3-4 weekly B788/B763 service. The flying time between YVR-TSN is only 30 minutes longer than YVR-NGO and its now China’s 4th largest city (13 million population) along with also being its 4th richest city economically. Its closely located to Beijing hence can also act as a secondary option for PEK bound passengers.

With regards to IKA-Tehran, the service would obviously have to be operated from YYZ-Toronto as that is where the main demand is followed by Vancouver-YVR. In 2015, the demand from YYZ and YVR round trip were 46,000 and 23,000 each respectively. YYZ-IKA once the dust settles and all clearances are obtained is ideally suited for a 3 weekly B788 service. It would be the first carrier from North America to operate nonstop into IKA + the vast majority of Iranians residing in USA have American passports so transiting in YYZ for them is no issue what so ever. AC will get good transfer feed to U.S. West + East Coast on a new IKA service as well as high yielding cargo. Also note that compared to YYZ-DEL, YYZ-IKA flying time wise is 2 hours 15 minutes shorter (12 hours minutes flying time approx).
 
nname
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:53 am

VCEflyboy wrote:
nname wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Good luck with TPE. China Airlines and EVA both fill their 747 flights for peanuts. CI has great service and EVA has *A benefits. Not sure what AC can bring to the table.


The TPE-YVR and TPE-YYZ route consistently have LF in the low- to mid-90s, even higher during peak season. BR wanted daily or more for both routes, but they are limited to 5x weekly each due to bilateral restriction. Even more problem as BR will be replacing their 744 with 77W for the YVR route most likely in 2017. As BR is being forced to reduce capacity by more than 10% on a route that gets 98-99% LF for the busy months, there's the opportunity for AC.


Yes LF I'm the 90s and yet hemmoraging money. They yields are ridiculous. CX absorbs all the premium traffic. CI and BR are left with the crumbs. And that's nothing new to be honest. China Airlines and EVA often engage in a war of bloodbath yields in the hope the other will give up.


YVR-TPE is almost always have the most expensive direct flight ticket out compared to other destination around the area, especially China... For instance, I'm not sure how they would have a good yield if direct YVR-PVG is only selling for around $650 in Y and around $3000 in J...
 
MEA330
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:06 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:52 am

OGLOBAL wrote:
i am guessing the BEY rumour was false ..


Rumour is indeed true, but nothing firmed up yet for summer 2017.

Doable on the Rouge 763, but that would be the longest flight with that high capacity seating configuration.

With AC basing 788 at YUL for PVG flight and 6 more 789 deliveries; we should expect some more 787 routes announced from YUL.
 
User avatar
nimool
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:24 am

caribb wrote:
nimool wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:

Wishful thinking on all three fronts!



Interesting. Pretty sure there is a bigger Iranian community in Toronto. Any Iran service would be from YYZ if you ask me.



Indeed, I was surprised reading about YUL, YYZ would much better. probably a mixup in the media interpretation or just a guess from the media sources?
I also read IKA - SYD are in talks for Mahan, and all the paper works from Mahan's service to Gatwick is done, and they're awaiting government approval or something?


As a Montrealer I'd love to see this but even I have to admit it would make more sense out of YYZ. I 'm not aware of a sizable Iranian community in Montreal and would presume it would be larger in Toronto but I'm only speculating. It's also not a destination in Air Canada's master strategy for YUL (Francophonie & global hubs)... But you never know, fingers crossed.

Update. I just checked online and according to one source the largest community of Canadian Iranians in 2006 was in Toronto, then Vancouver then Montreal. 46,000, 30,000 10,000 respectively. Today's there's over 200,000 in Canada. I can't imagine that distribution changing radically.



True, I agree YYZ is most common sense option for both, I don't remember where I read about YUL, possibly twitter or some news website, maybe I read wrong or the typo from the website publisher.
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:03 am

MEA330 wrote:
OGLOBAL wrote:
i am guessing the BEY rumour was false ..


Rumour is indeed true, but nothing firmed up yet for summer 2017.

Doable on the Rouge 763, but that would be the longest flight with that high capacity seating configuration.

With AC basing 788 at YUL for PVG flight and 6 more 789 deliveries; we should expect some more 787 routes announced from YUL.



i wish MEA would launch it i am at BEY now and i can say easily at least 50% ox the pax to both the london flights are connecting to Canada ..
 
1900Driver
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:12 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
1900Driver wrote:
No way, very false assumption!

Nothing presumptive about it: simple logistics.

Neither OEM can meet EK's current expansion plans in the time frame that the airline wants, alone. The production slots don't exist.


Not what I am suggesting. It's not a white or black situation, but simply a game of ratios & tipping the balance. (proportion of Boeing/Airbus) The duopoly is by no means a simple benign oligopoly! Just read the link below! If the UAE plays the game & brings something to table (Cseries order), it may be enough to persuade the current liberal Gov for more slots into YYZ or even access to YVR/YUL. (incremental growth over time)

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/22/boeing-us-welcome-wto-report-on-european-unions-airbus-loans.html

As to EK's current "expansion plans"...highly subjective!

OGLOBAL wrote:
i wish MEA would launch it i am at BEY now and i can say easily at least 50% ox the pax to both the london flights are connecting to Canada ..


GVA is also a big connecting point for pax to YUL. Either way, it's subject to approval by the federal government (AC or MEA). Fingers crossed it will work one day & we shall see the largest unserved direct market out of Canada come to fruition (YUL-BEY).
 
downdata
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:13 am

uberflieger wrote:
downdata wrote:
Th best way to compete is by reducing competition so that UA can start charging $5000 return tickets like AC

AC/UA $590 RT to Dubai.
http://thepointsguy.com/2016/09/deal-al ... ound-trip/


Asia - Canada is almost twice as expensive as Asia - Australia, equal distance to two continents.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:25 am

downdata wrote:
uberflieger wrote:
downdata wrote:
Th best way to compete is by reducing competition so that UA can start charging $5000 return tickets like AC

AC/UA $590 RT to Dubai.
http://thepointsguy.com/2016/09/deal-al ... ound-trip/


Asia - Canada is almost twice as expensive as Asia - Australia, equal distance to two continents.


What equal distance markets are you comparing? Apart from Japan, Korea and northeasterly points in China (e.g. PEK), almost all Canada-Asia routes are significantly further than Asia-Australia.
 
jfidler
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:32 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:09 am

Great news from AC. I live in the US and I fly to Asia at least twice a year. It's almost always on AC via YYZ. Prices in C are excellent, and the connection in YYZ is relatively smooth. I've even seen ads in my area (Washington DC) from AC advertising the benefit of transferring via YYZ and also the free Toronto layover option.

I see some of the new Asian routes are via YVR. Does AC intend to try and split up connecting traffic from the US? The beauty of YYZ for the connection is it has such a broad network to the US, even to secondary cities. YVR does not really compare -- there is no direct flight at all from IAD for example (DCA has a perimeter limit), so in my case I'd be stuck with 2 connections getting to Asia from any of the YVR-operated routes, making 1-stop alternatives from the US more attractive.
 
diesel33
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:18 am

Prices in C are excellent, and the connection in YYZ is relatively smooth.[/quote]

I connected from a domestic Canadian red-eye flight to the first bank of US-bound flights and thought the transit process was pretty horrible. There numerous checks to go through. The lines were long. We had a 120-minute connection and made our flight just barely. The commuter terminal was also not great.
 
jfidler
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:32 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:54 pm

diesel33 wrote:
I connected from a domestic Canadian red-eye flight to the first bank of US-bound flights and thought the transit process was pretty horrible. There numerous checks to go through. The lines were long. We had a 120-minute connection and made our flight just barely. The commuter terminal was also not great.


I haven't done that connection so I can't speak to it. That's also not the market I was thinking benefits AC -- instead it's ferrying US passengers to destinations outside Canada, via YYZ.

When going from the US, it's: immigration check by Canadian authorities then that's it. Jump on the high-speed moving walkway and you're in the AC lounge or terminal in a jiffy.

On the way back to the US, it's US immigration (while sitting waiting for your name to show up on a screen first), then security check, then you're in the US flight departure area.

In both cases, no shuttle bus or train ride is needed.. just a bit of walking. You don't even need to collect your baggage for immigration, like you would if headed to the US from abroad, with the connection being in the US.

In my experience, it's fairly smooth going both ways.
 
Noise
Posts: 2447
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:05 pm

behramjee wrote:
The P2P round trip demand for these new routes in 2015 were as follows:

• YYZ-BOM 76,000
• YVR-TPE 102,000
• YUL-ALG 71,000
• YVR-NGO 12,000
• YUL-MRS 39,000
• YYZ-TXL 24,000


Where did you find this info???
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6359
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:50 am

Rouge is also expanding frequencies to other destinations:

Montreal – Casablanca Increase from 3 to 7 weekly
Toronto – Budapest Increase from 3 to 5 weekly
Toronto – Lisbon Increase from 6 to 7 weekly
Toronto – Manchester Increase from 6 to 7 weekly


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09nov16/
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:29 pm

golfradio wrote:
Geez, the 50 cent party is now on a.net.
It's Rouge and it's 3 years old. You should do your homework before you posting or your handler's going to dock your pay. For next time, leave your political propaganda behind.


Ding! Xinhua News Agency type bias with that one.

That said, let's take him to task - and drown him in fact...

Let's employ GDP per Capita (also known as PPP) to guague not only the health of both economies, but also the wealth of both peoples.

(take him to school) (side note; is Wikipedia even allowed in PRC? If so, is it censored?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
Comparisons of national wealth are frequently made on the basis of nominal GDP and savings (not just income), which do not reflect differences in the cost of living in different countries (see List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita); hence, using a PPP basis is arguably more useful when comparing generalized differences in living standards between nations because PPP takes into account the relative cost of living and the inflation rates of the countries, rather than using only exchange rates, which may distort the real differences in income. This is why GDP (PPP) per capita is often considered one of the indicators of a country's standard of living.


Thus:
(teach him the lesson)
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2016/02/weodata/index.aspx
Gross domestic product based on purchasing-power-parity (PPP) per capita GDP, in USD.
(Democratic) Republic of China (''Taiwan'') ; $22,263.080
The "Peoples" Republic of China ("Mainland"); $8,140.981


Homework;
(send him home to Mama...
http://www.diffen.com/difference/People%27s_Republic_Of_China_vs_Republic_Of_China
Poverty threshold;
(''Taiwan'') ; 1.5 % (2013)
("Mainland"); 6.1 % (2013)


Now, let's discuss a related note, as to why AC would chose TPE (and BR), as was offered in a public statement;
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e15534483/
“Regardless of a potential code-share agreement with Star partner Eva Airways, Air Canada will likely prefer to connect Taiwan-bound customers over Hong Kong … as it enables Air Canada to capture a majority of an air ticket’s fare (as Air Canada would be operating the trans-Pacific leg of the journey),” AirTrav said in an analysis of the new agreement.


More importantly, and more knowledgeable members, please explain further;
Although Canadian carriers do not currently fly to Taiwan, they will be permitted to make 21 flights a week to that country once the deal comes into effect. As an interim step, the number of permitted flights grew to 17 from 13 this week.


If you look at Taiwan (independent of the Mainland's presence for the matter of this conversation) - it's a compelling argument. As soon as BR exhausts their abilities to serve Canada, allow AC to pick up the room for expansion. Right-size and/or prioritize to allow both partners (BR and AC) to grow to the maximum allowed frequency and then work with authorities from there. For AC, there is the BR hub at TPE, and working knowledge that the route performs well enough, for BR.
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:56 pm

I don't know if the existing bilateral allows codeshare but I assume the new one will. Certainly a BR-AC codeshare with daily service (and 2x daily on some days) between TPE-YVR will be more compelling than CI's 4x weekly service.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada expansion including Mumbai, Taipei, Nagoya and Algiers

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:53 pm

YVR-TPE is setting up to become a very competitive market. Star offer a very compelling product with the choice of service on AC or EVA . With EVA bringing in the 77W, that will certainly lower their operating costs. They are competing against the Dynasty A350, which in itself will be a very nice ride, and I think will market well in Vancouver. I wonder with the ownsizing of equipment, and the bilateral expansion, China Airlines could potentially be interested in potentially upping frequencies. YYZ also will be interesting, with currently only EVA serving TPE, the bilateral amendment makes room for increased frequency or a new player to enter the market. TPE flights from EVA are off peak, so provided this remains the case, they won't run into YYZ's gate issues.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos