nostrum
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Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:11 pm

The flight IST-HAV-CCS starts December 12, confirmed by Iker Ayci. Still no information about schedule times, frequency or aircraft.

In Spanish: http://www.el-nacional.com/viajes/Turki ... 07074.html
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:15 pm

Wow. An airline that's experiencing one of the most unstable periods in its home market in recent memory, launching a flight to what's currently perhaps the most unstable market on Earth.

They must have hiiiiiigh hopes for this thing.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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ua900
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:23 pm

1x or 2x weekly A330 would be my guess. Perhaps HAV makes it worth it, CCS seems like an odd choice right now.
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Varsity1
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:27 pm

Can't help but see the political motivations behind it.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
303dk
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:29 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Can't help but see the political motivations behind it.


Exactly. They probably got local traffic rights between HAV and CCS too.
 
b6sea
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:42 pm

The text of that article says "Turkish Airlines es la aerolínea que conecta más ciudades del mundo" or "Turkish Airlines is the airline that connects the most cities in the world." Is that true?

I'm not doubting it, I just didn't realize they had reached that milestone, although with all their expansion I guess it shouldn't be that surprising.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:44 pm

This flight will be lucky to even stick around for at least a year. Venezuela is at the moment, the most economically unstable country in the world. Heck, airlines are leaving there for Pete's sake. Haven't they seen what Lufthansa, LATAM and Aeromexico have done?
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N415XJ
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:55 pm

b6sea wrote:
The text of that article says "Turkish Airlines es la aerolínea que conecta más ciudades del mundo" or "Turkish Airlines is the airline that connects the most cities in the world." Is that true?

I'm not doubting it, I just didn't realize they had reached that milestone, although with all their expansion I guess it shouldn't be that surprising.

According to wiki, they're #1 in terms of countries served, but #4 in terms of cities. Be warned, the # of cities stats don't contain a source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s ... arch.3F.5D
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:01 pm

TK loses money on a good chunk of their long haul network. I don't expect this flight to be any different !
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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keitherson
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:02 pm

Why don't they start service to Pyongyang while they're at it?
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:03 pm

for me the flight will be succesfull, no doubt, why?

1. many carriers have left the market, and in Venezuela their is a big chinese and mid east community!
2. even for European destinatino, the current yield out of CCS is very high - AF / IB etc. is mostly charging 2 to 2.5 TUSD for the cheapest Eco fare.
3. they will sell tickets only in USD - not in monopoly money as former carriers that have left like LH etc...
4. I am sure they will get cheap prices to refill the aircraft in CCS

so even with a relativly low payload - this flight will make money.

Regards
Avianca
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upwardfacing
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:23 pm

It's too bad that LAXintl has apparently left this forum. It would have been interesting to see what kind of spin he could come up with to rationalise this decision.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:44 am

IST-HAV-CCS? Good luck with that.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:15 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Can't help but see the political motivations behind it.


The reality is Turkey really has nothing to do with Cuba or Venezuela politically.

The concept likely for such flight is Cuba offers growing tourist demand from Turks(and connections) who love to travel, while Venezuela is still a large nation and regardless has some inherent demand. Long term TK positions itself well when things change in Venezuela as its one of the few remaining longhaul carriers in the market.
mercure f-wtcc
 
DigitalJoker
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:19 am

Is crazy to operate in VENEZUELA, They just don't let the airline take the money home. So you work for nothing.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:03 am

mercure1 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Can't help but see the political motivations behind it.


The reality is Turkey really has nothing to do with Cuba or Venezuela politically.

The concept likely for such flight is Cuba offers growing tourist demand from Turks(and connections) who love to travel, while Venezuela is still a large nation and regardless has some inherent demand. Long term TK positions itself well when things change in Venezuela as its one of the few remaining longhaul carriers in the market.


I seriously wonder what realities some of the posters on A.Net live in.

CCS is a blackhole. Complete financial disaster. Things like bug spray and tooth paste are becoming unobtainable in Venezuela. Flying a jet across the world into a disaster and connecting through a poor low yielding tourist town isn't a recipe for success.

The dictator in Istanbul is looking to build ties on the opposite side of the table from the U.S. It happens every time someone wants to stick it to "the man". We've seen this a dozen times now.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:17 am

Varsity1 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Can't help but see the political motivations behind it.


The reality is Turkey really has nothing to do with Cuba or Venezuela politically.

The concept likely for such flight is Cuba offers growing tourist demand from Turks(and connections) who love to travel, while Venezuela is still a large nation and regardless has some inherent demand. Long term TK positions itself well when things change in Venezuela as its one of the few remaining longhaul carriers in the market.


I seriously wonder what realities some of the posters on A.Net live in.

CCS is a blackhole. Complete financial disaster. Things like bug spray and tooth paste are becoming unobtainable in Venezuela. Flying a jet across the world into a disaster and connecting through a poor low yielding tourist town isn't a recipe for success.

The dictator in Istanbul is looking to build ties on the opposite side of the table from the U.S. It happens every time someone wants to stick it to "the man". We've seen this a dozen times now.


just wondering when you were the last time in Venezuela... yes it is a disaster no doubt, but you would wonder bug spray, tooth paste and most of all other stuff to be get in CCS but of course with enough "Dollars" .... as mentioned above let alone 400.000 Chinese are living in Venezuela... or 1.600.000 Arab Venezuelans, of course not all will travel on a regular base, but if only a small part is traveling at least once a year - you can be sure that TK will steal its share from high priced AF, LH (via PTY) etc.

as well their are even you dont belive it - people that are traveling to Europe... why not with TK if they are right priced and still with a good yield level...

I am CCS based and I have no other choice then to travel at least twice a month.... and you can be sure that I am not the only one.

To get the money out of the country should be no problem... why? simple they will sell the tickets only in hard currency... combined with HAV I think they can make this flight a success... again not with 100% loadfactor but with good all over yields (at least for the CCS part)

cheers
Avianca
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upwardfacing
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:28 am

OK, yes, people are travelling to and from Venezuela, but clearly CCS-IST will overfly Western Europe where most of the traffic is going.

I don't know the details of Chinese in Venezuela--whether they are temporary workers or established communities. However, A.net always seems to exaggerate the propensity of long-settled ethnic communities to travel to their country of origin. After a generation or two, descendants of immigrants are firmly entrenched in their adopted homeland, and those VFR linkages tend to dwindle.
 
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United787
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:46 am

keitherson wrote:
Why don't they start service to Pyongyang while they're at it?


That isn't too far off. Erdogan is increasingly pushing Turkey down a slippery slope. It is sad because Turkey was a success story in a region that could use a model. I traveled there in 2009 and loved it - I wouldn't go back now.
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:47 am

upwardfacing wrote:
OK, yes, people are travelling to and from Venezuela, but clearly CCS-IST will overfly Western Europe where most of the traffic is going.

I don't know the details of Chinese in Venezuela--whether they are temporary workers or established communities. However, A.net always seems to exaggerate the propensity of long-settled ethnic communities to travel to their country of origin. After a generation or two, descendants of immigrants are firmly entrenched in their adopted homeland, and those VFR linkages tend to dwindle.


yes you are right - CCS-IST will overfly Western Europe - but thats exactly part of the strategy o TK to those origins.
I mean if I have to fly with my family to Europe - I would rather pay 4500 USD for a family of 3 with TK then 7500 USD on AF, even if I have to back track.
I was actualy booked on a TK BOG-PTY-IST flight earlier this year, the flight was due to the terror attacks in IST canceled... waiting for hours and days - I get to know how many pax ex BOG actualy had final destination IST.... exactly 3 ... of the 200 pax - roughly 140 had as final destination Europe.... to name a view destinations...

VCE, MAD, BCN, DUB, LHR, FRA, MUC, FCO, ZAG, ARN, HEL, CDG etc... of course most price driven pax... but with competitors ex CCS with such high fares... I believe they can successful..

About Chinese in Venezuela it is actually a mix and still a big bunch is traveling back to China... more then once, during boarding in CDG or FRA for flights to CCS I thought it is a flight to China ... not to South America... also their is a reason why in the last years LH used to have 1 or 2 Cantonese / Mandarin speaking FA's on the flights to CCS

Cheers
Avianca
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pzurita1
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:54 am

It is very interesting to note that the same article says that TK is still considering flying to MEX and CUN in the same flight. I have heard this for the last 4 years. Wonder why it has taken them so long.
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KLM11
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:10 am

GC Mapper has IST-HAV-CCS at 7,539 mi and IST-CCS-HAV at 167 miles shorter, 7,372 mi. My Spanish isn't all that great so I may have missed it in the article. What's the reason to fly the longer routing? Could it be demand, freedom rights, or perhaps logistical conditions in CCS? I'm perplexed as to the slight (and I emphasize that!) backtracking involved here.

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aerorobnz
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:39 am

KLM11 wrote:
GC Mapper has IST-HAV-CCS at 7,539 mi and IST-CCS-HAV at 167 miles shorter, 7,372 mi. My Spanish isn't all that great so I may have missed it in the article. What's the reason to fly the longer routing? Could it be demand, freedom rights, or perhaps logistical conditions in CCS? I'm perplexed as to the slight (and I emphasize that!) backtracking involved here.

KLM11


It might be so they don't have to overnight their crew in CCS, rather HAV. Safety concerns..?

I have been to both cities, and I loved both. I had a great time. Venezuela has a lot to offer when the political climate improves. No doubt President Erdogan did have a say in this, but TK is trying to serve everywhere they possibly can. They serve plenty of tin-pot and, by western standards, dangerous cities in Africa. They obviously see there is a market of some kind.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:50 am

Doesn't surprise me if they are able to make Mogadishu , Somalia work i am sure CCS will work there is huge middle eastern diaspora in Venezuela i have relatives over there demand is not like before but there is some i am assuming the HAV tag is for crew rest as mentioned above and HAV is booming at the moment ..
 
migair54
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:17 am

Very interesting, and out of the box route, however serving CCS via HAV and from IST won't attract many people from Europe specially. And most of the traffic to HAV is from Europe.

Actually not long ago they state that they were planning to start IST-HAV-MEX-IST. Actually I think the plan was that and IST-CCS-BOG-IST but something has changed during the last times.

Safety concerns in CCS are founded because the situation is not very good.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:27 am

Wow. This looks like one of those old Soviet-era political routes. Almost seems up there in craziness with CCS-DAM-THR.
 
klwright69
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:50 am

I won't speculate on the reasons for the route but it seems odd. Crews do overnight in Caracas. They must there are longhauls. There are probably safer hotels and areas available. I can't wait to go one day. I have not been but I have heard the airport is away from the city.

Also I believe Turkish has dropped Mogadishu. I am not sure if flights have started again after the Daallo Air bomb attack.
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:50 am

klwright69 wrote:
I won't speculate on the reasons for the route but it seems odd. Crews do overnight in Caracas. They must there are longhauls. There are probably safer hotels and areas available. I can't wait to go one day. I have not been but I have heard the airport is away from the city.

Also I believe Turkish has dropped Mogadishu. I am not sure if flights have started again after the Daallo Air bomb attack.


Just did a quick search Mogadishu still operates 6 x week fares quoted around 1210 usd to IST ..
 
debonair
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:58 am

nostrum wrote:
The flight IST-HAV-CCS starts December 12, confirmed by Iker Ayci.


Will we see 5th freedom rights between HAV and CCS?!
 
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Yakamoz
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:35 am

Does anybody know which airlines flying which routes from CCS to Europe or from HAV to Europe? I mean nonstop.

Thanks.
 
airbazar
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:07 pm

Keep in mind that TK has a history of throwing around route announcements "just in case". IIRC they are required by law to announce new routes 2 years ahead of schedule. So they are covering their bases in case there is a spike in demand 2 years down the road. There's always a chance that things in Venezuela will improve in the future, and with the opening up of Cuba to the U.S. there will be foreign investors lining up to build up Cuba's infrastructure, especially from China. TK also has a very wide network into Russia and I can see Cuba becoming a popular tourist destination for Russians, as other destinations fall out of favor. The OPEC's decision to cap oil production will certainly improve the financial situation of oil based economies such as Russia and Venezuela.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:35 pm

Yakamoz wrote:
Does anybody know which airlines flying which routes from CCS to Europe or from HAV to Europe? I mean nonstop.

Thanks.


From Caracas:

CCS-MAD: IBERIA, AIR EUROPA, CONVIASA
CCS-CDG: AIR FRANCE
CCS-LIS: TAP

None of them flies daily anymore, as most of them did in the recent past.
Air France has the largest number of frequencies, 6 weekly. The others are 2-4 times per week.
 
pzurita1
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:27 pm

Flights are still not available on TK website... Mmmhhh, wonder why....
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DolphinAir747
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:14 pm

This is a joke. I'll believe it when I see the inaugural land. Politics or not, TK still answers to shareholders and is in the business of making money, not lighting it on fire.
 
peteinmiami
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:56 pm

From HAV

to MAD - IB, UX, CU, E9(EvelopAirlines), EB (Wamos Air)
to CDG - AF
to ORY - CU, SS (Corsair), soon TX
to AMS - KL
to LGW - VS
to DUS - AB
to FRA - DE
to MUC- DE
to SVO - SU
to FCO - BV (Blue Panorama), AZ (Nov 2016)
to MXP - BV (Blue Panorama)
to VIE - OS (Oct 2016)
to ZRH - WK (Edelweiss Air)
Last edited by peteinmiami on Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:13 pm

OGLOBAL wrote:
klwright69 wrote:
I won't speculate on the reasons for the route but it seems odd. Crews do overnight in Caracas. They must there are longhauls. There are probably safer hotels and areas available. I can't wait to go one day. I have not been but I have heard the airport is away from the city.

Also I believe Turkish has dropped Mogadishu. I am not sure if flights have started again after the Daallo Air bomb attack.


Just did a quick search Mogadishu still operates 6 x week fares quoted around 1210 usd to IST ..



Nuts. I forget that they run that route. Perhaps they will launch DAM soon.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:29 pm

seldom have seen such much unqualified post here....not much knlowdge but everybody seems to know it better

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
NichCage
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:37 pm

I'm sure the network planners at Turkish Airlines know what they are doing, and Havana I think will be successful. Cuba is doing better than ever at the moment and Turkish Airlines have said for several years they will fly to Havana. Why would Caracas be launched? Honestly, Venezuela is going through some hard times at the moments, and I don't think it will be successful. I am trying my best to not take this as a joke, but I guess we will see after the flight launches.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:49 pm

Avianca wrote:
seldom have seen such much unqualified post here....not much knlowdge but everybody seems to know it better

cheers

:)
Maybe you can clear some of these news also; recently in the Turkish Aviation sites there were news that Venezuela offered TK to have its own terminal at CCS and to start a hub. All this is in conjunction with some energy deal, cheap fuel and such...even Turkey to be encouraged to build mosques there. :) News :)
 
usflyer123
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:07 am

i guess this flights suppose to connect asian pax who has businesses in HAV or CCS or middle eastern diaspora. because its only 2x a week i guess they can fill those flights pretty easily.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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alaturka
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:50 pm

Maybe you don't believe but Cuba Travels very populer in Turkey. Even some private group consideres to start Charter Ist-Hav flight.

If it s going to be happen 2-3 times in a week, you have to add this local demands also. Even I want to see untouched Cuba for my self and I change my mind after everytime I search for price.

Also i am having difficulties to understand why some people so prejudiced about it? It s shareholders money and if you have to manage something you have to not afraid to try new things.

Related news in turkish;

http://m.gazetevatan.com/turkiye-den-il ... 9-ekonomi/
 
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Ytraveller
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:44 pm

With articles like this coming out of Venezuela < http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/world ... ottom-well > I must say that I'm surprised TK wants to begin IST-CCS.

I asked TK about these new destinations, this is what they said:

"Hi, first of all thanks for interest. Work on Caracas and Havana destination are currently underway. As soon as we have any news. :)"
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:36 pm

TK787 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
seldom have seen such much unqualified post here....not much knlowdge but everybody seems to know it better

cheers

:)
Maybe you can clear some of these news also; recently in the Turkish Aviation sites there were news that Venezuela offered TK to have its own terminal at CCS and to start a hub. All this is in conjunction with some energy deal, cheap fuel and such...even Turkey to be encouraged to build mosques there. :) News :)


well actualy CCS has already a nice big mosque ... but yeah why not add some more...

as mentioned before ... CCS is lacking of "payable" options into Europe, MidEast and for several Asian destinations (Tokio for example has cheap fares on UA)...
So I have to underline again... for me it makes sense... but lets see once this is officialy confirmed.

Cheers
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MaxxFlyer
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:04 am

People seem enthralled with the opening up of Cuba. Scheduled flights from the U.S. are just getting started. Other carriers could have flown in HAV before U.S. sanctions e=were lifted. IST-HAV seems like a fast way to lose a lot of money.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:13 am

Havana has its share of foreign airlines serving it since ages.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:55 pm

First post here, after following the forum for well over a decade...
So, what has become of the IST-HAV-CCS flight? No more official announcements from TK, and nothing's bookable in the GDS, nor on TK's website... If they do indeed intend to start flights on DEC12 , they better get their act together soon.

As a foreigner who lives in Venezuela for the moment, I think this flight is just senseless. There is absolutely no way to make money on a flight where local sales in Venezuela is somewhere between very complex and impossible, and any kind of traffic to and from (leisure - to get mugged or killed?; business - to get your investment expropriated by Maduro and his cronies?; government - limited traffic since the country is a pariah in most countries, bar China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Russia, Belarus and, recently, Turkey itself) Venezuela is shrinking by the minute. The only type of traffic that is on the rise is that of one-way tickets for Venezuelans who leave the country, but that is not on TK's plate. This traffic mostly goes to Colombia, Panamá, Ecuador, the US, Mexico, Argentina and Chile. Postponing the flight à la EK at PTY would be a wise move by TK...
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:20 am

Nobody has info on whether this flight is going to materialise? We are a month away from the supposed launch date, and no more news, nothing is bookable, no TK office in Caracas (have no clue about Havana)... Am I stupid for not understanding the signs in the sky?? :roll:
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:01 pm

Consider this irony: Conviasa operates a Wamos AIr 744 to EZE twice a week. Flights arrive in EZE packed to the gills with ~450 paxs and leave for CCS pretty much empty. Chavismo has driven these folks out of their own country and an airline run by chavistas delivers them to their new lives 3000 miles south.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:11 pm

Conviasa operates a Wamos AIr 744 to EZE twice a week. Flights arrive in EZE packed to the gills with ~450 paxs and leave for CCS pretty much empty.


I have taken that flight (both ways) 4 times this year, and none of the flights, in either direction, ever had more than 80 PAX. I am not sure what talks better of the chavistas....or Conviasa...
 
dcajet
Posts: 4295
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Turkish Announces Havana and Caracas

Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:18 pm

I did not say this has been the case always. But since AR suspended flights to CCS V0 flights to EZE are packed, just in one direction. For instance. this past week, the 29/10 flight arrived with438 paxs and the 31/10 flight arrived with 448 paxs on board. EC-LNA in both cases.

The question is why would anyone travel by V0, but if it is the only way out, I'd take it too.
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