babastud
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Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:01 pm

Wow! Herd through the grapevine that Norwegian will be announcing new routes soon to Rome, Paris and Madrid from Oakland.
If this turns out to be true that would make Oakland it's largest international station in the USA?
The Bay-Area continues to explode with new international services!!!
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:02 pm

"It was really big news when Norwegian Air announced new Oakland-Barcelona and Oakland-Copenhagen nonstops starting next spring. When TravelSkills attended the announcement event at Oakland’s Jack London Square, we snagged a few minutes with Norwegian Air execs. They told us that since they’ve received such a positive reception in the Bay Area, the carrier will soon announce nonstops between Oakland and Paris…. AND that the carrier is looking to add Oakland-Rome and Oakland-Madrid, too! Stay tuned for more details."

http://travelskills.com/2016/09/30/rout ... l-detroit/
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:04 pm

I bet this is true but I don't belive they would solely announce these routes solely from OAK. They probably would also start them from their other U.S destinations. Also OAK wouldn't be the biggest. JFK,FLL and LAX are still bigger then OAK.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:09 pm

Will OAK have enough 787-capable gates to handle 3 or 4 planes at a time?
 
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enilria
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:09 pm

Wow, if true. I agree that it is highly unlikely they would only add those routes. It would mean the crew would be stuck in FCO/PAR/MAD for days between flights. It would probably alternate with BOS/FLL if true. I'd be a little surprised to see them do both MAD and BCN, seems like there would be a better option than MAD. MUC? TXL?
 
babastud
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:17 pm

lesfalls wrote:
I bet this is true but I don't belive they would solely announce these routes solely from OAK. They probably would also start them from their other U.S destinations. Also OAK wouldn't be the biggest. JFK,FLL and LAX are still bigger then OAK.



They would have 8 routes being flown, which would be tied with JFK for most Routes from a single USA destination. Now overall passenger numbers most likely behind the others?
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:18 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
Will OAK have enough 787-capable gates to handle 3 or 4 planes at a time?


I would assume gates 1 and 3 can have 787s at the same time. Gate 5 is unusable when a 787 is at 3. Presumably they could also use 8 when HA isn't?
 
crazytoaster
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:48 pm

Awesome if true! Rome should do very well.

From the US side I'm surprised Chicago hasn't seen any Norwegian flights yet. Also would personally like to see DEN added but that is a longer shot
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:52 pm

babastud wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
I bet this is true but I don't belive they would solely announce these routes solely from OAK. They probably would also start them from their other U.S destinations. Also OAK wouldn't be the biggest. JFK,FLL and LAX are still bigger then OAK.



They would have 8 routes being flown, which would be tied with JFK for most Routes from a single USA destination. Now overall passenger numbers most likely behind the others?


9 including the new BCN-EWR flight. Plus JFK would probably get these routes. I highly doubt that they would just start these flights to OAK and none of their other U.S destinations. There are also a bunch of other rumors that DY will start a bunch of other flights out of JFK with the 737Max/A321LR.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:52 pm

enilria wrote:
Wow, if true. I agree that it is highly unlikely they would only add those routes. It would mean the crew would be stuck in FCO/PAR/MAD for days between flights. It would probably alternate with BOS/FLL if true. I'd be a little surprised to see them do both MAD and BCN, seems like there would be a better option than MAD. MUC? TXL?


They assign the longhaul planes to a European destination. With the BCN launch - Kjos said they are dedicating two 787 planes to BCN which resulted in a spread between LAX/OAK/FLL/EWR

DY has hinted at both MAD and BCN - both are fairly large bases. I believe the only base that is larger is LGW outside of Scandinavia.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
NichCage
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:05 pm

Norwegian Air Shuttle has been doing very good with it's international expansion. I am amazed that Oakland has flights to London Gatwick, Oslo, Copenhagen, Stockholm and Barcelona. It seems like all the flights will do well, but the newly announced BCN-OAK service will do well because the Bay Area to Spain is highly unserved. I wouldn't be shocked seeing CDG, FCO, and MAD from Oakland, as Norwegian Air Shuttle knows the market is there.
 
B752OS
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:15 pm

What type of an affect will this service have on UA at SFO?
 
ORDSpotter7
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:20 pm

Geez no ORD service yet... especially since there is no ORD-OSL routes yet
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:24 pm

Hopefully those same route will come from LAS too! We need more European connections from here!
LAS is Life
 
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jbpdx
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:29 pm

They need to consider Paris-Portland too. Both CDG and ORY have PDX on their therouteshop.com unserved routes wishlist.
 
n471wn
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:32 pm

B752OS wrote:
What type of an affect will this service have on UA at SFO?


Who cares? UA has treated these markets like people do not have any other choices and having flown Norweigian to and from Gatwick from Oakland they have my business
 
reality
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:01 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
Will OAK have enough 787-capable gates to handle 3 or 4 planes at a time?


"The international terminal expansion is focused on increasing passenger and baggage capacity, which will double when renovations are complete next year. Yes, the international gates will stay at two, although so far with intelligent scheduling we are looking okay for 2017, but longer term we are aware that we will need additional gates and are actively working on solving that before it becomes an issue."

received by email from . . .
Brian Kidd
Aviation Supervising Marketing and Communications Representative
Port of Oakland

Also remember that none of the Norwegian flight are daily. Currently there is only one Norwegian plane at a time at OAK and they don't seem to arrive or depart at the same time as the international flights to Mexico.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:21 pm

reality wrote:
Also remember that none of the Norwegian flight are daily. Currently there is only one Norwegian plane at a time at OAK and they don't seem to arrive or depart at the same time as the international flights to Mexico.


Currently it looks like Monday is the only day with two flights:

Stockholm MWF
Oslo Sat Tues
London Sun M Thurs

Stockholm is scheduled at 5:30, London 6:40 - do they both use gate 3? Maybe they won't need another gate if they're strategic with scheduling the new flights next year.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:09 pm

Currently, JFK remains at the top of the list for largest station in the DY system. This is due to the fact while some stations receive flights to destinations that are often a one or two days a week, while JFK continues to have most destinations multiple days per week if not almost daily. LGW has been the most successful in Europe, hence, the 787-9 are based there and rotate from there through the system. OAK however has been quite successful as well, more surprising than was apparently expected. It would seem that people are in fact willing to traverse the bay to get a flight deal, as the cabin remains full in the back and more full than expected in the front.

Currently, DY operates 12 aircraft on their Long Haul operation, and has 9 aircraft scheduled to arrive in 2017, if DY can manage to staff it next year, they will take 3 additional frames. Staffing to almost double an operation in size is a challenge. However, even with only 9 frames the amount of new routes and increase in frequency is going to be ridiculous if you compare to the operation they operate now.

"Expected" destinations to be announced in Europe are Madrid and Rome as mentioned. In the US, Seattle, Chicago and DC (Expected to be IAD but short-haul currently operates from BWI to the islands). The other rumored are South Africa (JNB/CPH) as well as India. If the issue of flying through Russian airspace is resolved (currently, DY flies south of Russian airspace on routes to BKK), with the NUK certificate, you can expect the largest cities in Asia to be the first ones to be added connecting points in Europe.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:20 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
OAK however has been quite successful as well, more surprising than was apparently expected. It would seem that people are in fact willing to traverse the bay to get a flight deal, as the cabin remains full in the back and more full than expected in the front.


A nit, but Alameda County by itself has more people than San Francisco and San Mateo counties combined. Contra Costa County is another million. They don't have to cross any bridges to get to OAK.
 
n471wn
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:23 pm

As a 40-year resident of Danville and having grown up in Redwood City (Sequoia Grad), it just amazes me how the Peninsula People dismiss we East Bay residents. You are right in that we try to not cross any bridges to fly---we fly Oakland or San Jose!!
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:02 am

SF Bay Area is certainly the largest market without a nonstop to either Rome or Madrid so it would not be at all shocking to see this service here before other stations. Could be meant to preempt the return of AZ. OAK is closer to SF than SFO... It's always so incredibly easy to spot the countless clueless souls on a.net who have zero clue....
 
babastud
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:39 am

I wonder if this move would prevent AZ from coming to SFO, they have spoken how they want to start service in 2017.
 
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Ytraveller
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:41 am

aviationjunky wrote:
Hopefully those same route will come from LAS too! We need more European connections from here!

Not precisely... LAS already has service to LHR, LGW, STN, MAN, GLA, ZRH, ARN, CPH, FRA. MUC, OSL, CGN to be launched.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:00 am

Are any of the Norwegian flights year-round? I thought all of the flights were seasonal.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:41 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Are any of the Norwegian flights year-round? I thought all of the flights were seasonal.


The only OAK route that is seasonal is Oslo...
 
stlgph
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:09 am

Given Norwegian's preferred operating timetable from the east coast I would presume if they came into Chicago it would be preferred for a 7pm to 8pm (ish) arrival with a departure 90 minutes to 2 hours later. Isn't Terminal 5 pretty much full from 7p to 830? Gate space availability may be an issue until the expansion is complete.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
babastud
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:43 pm

Do any of you think this addition could prevent a UA SFO-Mad or AZ to FCO in the future
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:44 pm

It may just be OAK-CDG.

This article (and most recent) says 2018 for Rome but DOT decision may provoke an earlier launch.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/norwegian ... 31764.html

Was reported earlier this year as 2017 long-haul launch (First link in Italian)
http://www.travelquotidiano.com/traspor ... qid-240794
http://ch-aviation.com/portal/news/4469 ... ly-in-2017
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
georgiabill
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:52 pm

I think BOS-FCO would be successful 3 or 4 times per week year round. MAD against Iberia might be interesting. Perhaps seasonal 3 or 4 times per week
 
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787fan8
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:06 pm

Very good news for OAK! I expect these flights to do very well, especially FCO and MAD. As some have stated, I do expect the addition of DY's OAK-FCO service to stop AZ's proposed FCO-SFO service from coming to fruition.
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jetwet1
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:15 pm

How to build a long haul hub in the US, without being a US airline, DY seem to have figured it out.
 
reality
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:13 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
reality wrote:
Also remember that none of the Norwegian flight are daily. Currently there is only one Norwegian plane at a time at OAK and they don't seem to arrive or depart at the same time as the international flights to Mexico.


Currently it looks like Monday is the only day with two flights:

Stockholm MWF
Oslo Sat Tues
London Sun M Thurs

Stockholm is scheduled at 5:30, London 6:40 - do they both use gate 3? Maybe they won't need another gate if they're strategic with scheduling the new flights next year.


Looks like they both arrive at International Gate 3, but then depart from Gates 7 and 8, respectively. They don't need to use the international gates for departure. Volaris seems to frequently use Gate 5 for departures.
 
n471wn
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:12 pm

I have seen two DY 787's at OAK at the same time with one at Gate 1 and the other at Gate 3
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:15 pm

Not to forget, DY is as well planning to begin OAK-EDI in 2017.
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/n ... -1-4137450

OAK is actively working with an Asian carrier, but can't name the airline here in this thread. That route is proposed to begin in a few years. The time is coming for the Port of Oakland to begin evaluating a long-term Terminal 3 project and modernizing the master plan.
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:06 am

787fan8 wrote:
Very good news for OAK! I expect these flights to do very well, especially FCO and MAD. As some have stated, I do expect the addition of DY's OAK-FCO service to stop AZ's proposed FCO-SFO service from coming to fruition.


I don't. The PDEW is quite large and DY will likely be 2/weekly or 3/weekly. The better news is that DY will probably be year round while AZ will almost certainly be seasonal.
 
babastud
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:11 am

Wow OAK-EDI who woulda thought? Cant say I have ever flown DY, and I have mixed feelings about them. They do seem to be on a roll.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:37 am

SFOA380 wrote:
SF Bay Area is certainly the largest market without a nonstop to either Rome or Madrid so it would not be at all shocking to see this service here before other stations. Could be meant to preempt the return of AZ. OAK is closer to SF than SFO... It's always so incredibly easy to spot the countless clueless souls on a.net who have zero clue....


Zero clue about what? Yes, parts of SF are closer to OAK, but the BART to OAK still sucks and if you drive the Bay Bridge is bad. Not to mention the level of affluence on the Peninsula south of SF that also drives much of the traffic to SFO.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:07 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
Zero clue about what? Yes, parts of SF are closer to OAK, but the BART to OAK still sucks and if you drive the Bay Bridge is bad. Not to mention the level of affluence on the Peninsula south of SF that also drives much of the traffic to SFO.


BART to OAK doesn't "suck". The bus sucked. The new connector is fast, reliable and easy, but more expensive than it should have been. From downtown SF, travel times and costs on BART are similar.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:12 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Zero clue about what? Yes, parts of SF are closer to OAK, but the BART to OAK still sucks and if you drive the Bay Bridge is bad. Not to mention the level of affluence on the Peninsula south of SF that also drives much of the traffic to SFO.


BART to OAK doesn't "suck". The bus sucked. The new connector is fast, reliable and easy, but more expensive than it should have been. From downtown SF, travel times and costs on BART are similar.


It's better, but still a nuisance that it's a connection. And expensive.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:33 pm

Norwegian will receave 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017. First one planned delivered in march and the 9th one in october 2017. I'm thinking we have a lot of new routes to look forward to :-)
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:36 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Norwegian will receave 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017. First one planned delivered in march and the 9th one in october 2017. I'm thinking we have a lot of new routes to look forward to :-)

We'll they are placing one-two on two of their intra EU flights :)!
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:37 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Norwegian will receave 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017. First one planned delivered in march and the 9th one in october 2017. I'm thinking we have a lot of new routes to look forward to :-)

We'll they are placing one-two on two of their intra EU flights :)!


Yes, but I think it's only seasonal in the summer holiday season in Norway.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:45 pm

Mortyman wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Norwegian will receave 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017. First one planned delivered in march and the 9th one in october 2017. I'm thinking we have a lot of new routes to look forward to :-)

We'll they are placing one-two on two of their intra EU flights :)!


Yes, but I think it's only seasonal in the summer holiday season in Norway.


Yes but it is still quite a lot of extra seats that they will be adding to both markets. Don't forget that they will be flying 5 days a week on both route.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Norwegian will receave 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017. First one planned delivered in march and the 9th one in october 2017. I'm thinking we have a lot of new routes to look forward to :-)


Two of these planes have been already accounted for with BCN flights and the way the launch dates are staggered for the new-long haul base.

Deliveries are tentatively:

10/18/16
then for 2017

3/13
5/5
7/5
7/27
8/4
8/23
8/31
9/11
10/17

The deliveries are weighted towards late summer. Are they really going to launch anything TATL in the fall? We may see Caribbean and, if DOT approves D8 or even NAUK, other parts of the world.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:55 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Norwegian will receave 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017. First one planned delivered in march and the 9th one in october 2017. I'm thinking we have a lot of new routes to look forward to :-)


Two of these planes have been already accounted for with BCN flights and the way the launch dates are staggered for the new-long haul base.

Deliveries are tentatively:

10/18/16
then for 2017

3/13
5/5
7/5
7/27
8/4
8/23
8/31
9/11
10/17

The deliveries are weighted towards late summer. Are they really going to launch anything TATL in the fall? We may see Caribbean and, if DOT approves D8 or even NAUK, other parts of the world.

What about the deliveries of their 737MAX aircraft? They are also going to use the MAX on transatlantic flights.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
S75752
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:11 pm

What are DY's plans like for building an intra-Europe focus cities in Madrid, Rome, and Paris? They do have plans to expand their BCN operations as well, right?

It seems like a major key to DY's advantage over other networks may be their connection potential within Europe, which seems like it can rival or even surpass much of the established European longhaul.

And another thought; I kind of wonder if they could 5th freedom OAK-Papeete as a continuation of Paris - OAK.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:56 pm

S75752 wrote:
What are DY's plans like for building an intra-Europe focus cities in Madrid, Rome, and Paris? They do have plans to expand their BCN operations as well, right?

It seems like a major key to DY's advantage over other networks may be their connection potential within Europe, which seems like it can rival or even surpass much of the established European longhaul.

And another thought; I kind of wonder if they could 5th freedom OAK-Papeete as a continuation of Paris - OAK.


They are still expanding a lot in Spain:

BCN: TLV 2xw, KEF 2xw + Major increases on their domestic flights(which I bet will have quite some connecting passangers from their TATL flights)
MAD:Marrakesh 2xw, KEF 2xw

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... na-in-w16/

They are also launching their first flights from Italy to Spain:

FCO: AGP 2xw, TFS 2xw, LPA 2xw

They haven't announced anything for CDG/ORY yet funny enough.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:49 am

I'm surprised they haven't more from Germany ...
 
babastud
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Re: Rumor* Norwegian OAK- Rome,Paris,Madrid

Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:07 am

S75752 wrote:
What are DY's plans like for building an intra-Europe focus cities in Madrid, Rome, and Paris? They do have plans to expand their BCN operations as well, right?

It seems like a major key to DY's advantage over other networks may be their connection potential within Europe, which seems like it can rival or even surpass much of the established European longhaul.

And another thought; I kind of wonder if they could 5th freedom OAK-Papeete as a continuation of Paris - OAK.




I would imagine that Papeete is a very high end leisure market and not a cheap place to visit. I can't really see DY working that market, especially from OAK. I could see AF using one of their 777 from SFO 2-3 times a week to Papeete, maybe a seasonal route?

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