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ro1960
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Lufthansa Caravelle?

Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:48 pm

I was browsing through old timetables and saw some LH flights operated with a Caravelle or a Super Caravelle. For instance on the 1964 timetable flights like FRA/VIE, FRA/ORY or FRA/NCE/PMI.

I am not aware that LH ever had Caravelles. Did they or were those flights operated by other airlines?
Do not compensate for the lack of skills with a surplus of opinion.
 
Scottiedog
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Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:01 pm

Definitely no Caravelles, of any variant, were operated by Lufthansa under their own rights. I can only assume that these must have been very early code-shares as Austrian would have used them from Vienna and either Air France or Air Inter from the French cities.
 
Viscount724
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Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:10 pm

ro1960 wrote:
I was browsing through old timetables and saw some LH flights operated with a Caravelle or a Super Caravelle. For instance on the 1964 timetable flights like FRA/VIE, FRA/ORY or FRA/NCE/PMI.

I am not aware that LH ever had Caravelles. Did they or were those flights operated by other airlines?


Finnair leased a few of their Caravelles to LH for a while in the early 1960s. The flights you're referring to are probably those. Those leases are mentioned in this Finnair history. I assume they were wet-leases, flown by AY pilots but probably with LH cabin crews.
http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/group_14_6.html

Excerpt:

Caravelles were leased to other airlines, and in summer 1962 Finnair operated, for example, the Frankfurt-Paris route for Lufthansa.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:22 pm

Scottiedog wrote:
Definitely no Caravelles, of any variant, were operated by Lufthansa under their own rights. I can only assume that these must have been very early code-shares as Austrian would have used them from Vienna and either Air France or Air Inter from the French cities.


Not codeshares in the sense they exist today but rather Pooling that meant almost All the European flag carriers shared revenue across their network and pretty much until the mid seventies there wasn't any competition at all.

For instance Alitalia operated flights from Manchester using BEA 1-11s, Austrian did indeed operate flights for Lufthansa. Air Inter operated many Air France flights and pretty much all the big carriers operated long haul flights through neighbouring countries.

BOAC could be seen in German , Italian, Greek and Scandinavian points, Alitalia operated through Heathrow and Spain, Sabena via Manchester to New York and many other similar arrangements.

A very different world back then.
Think the Super Caravelle might have been Finnair as not to many airlines had them in Europe as they were designed for United in the US.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:09 am

Thanks for all the replies. I found this rendition of a LH Caravelle as an aircraft model. Pretty bad.
Do not compensate for the lack of skills with a surplus of opinion.
 
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saleya22r
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:13 am

Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:32 am

Viscount724 wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
I was browsing through old timetables and saw some LH flights operated with a Caravelle or a Super Caravelle. For instance on the 1964 timetable flights like FRA/VIE, FRA/ORY or FRA/NCE/PMI.

I am not aware that LH ever had Caravelles. Did they or were those flights operated by other airlines?


Finnair leased a few of their Caravelles to LH for a while in the early 1960s. The flights you're referring to are probably those. Those leases are mentioned in this Finnair history. I assume they were wet-leases, flown by AY pilots but probably with LH cabin crews.
http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/group_14_6.html

Excerpt:

Caravelles were leased to other airlines, and in summer 1962 Finnair operated, for example, the Frankfurt-Paris route for Lufthansa.


I didn't know AY ever leased Caravelles. After all, there weren't that many in the first place. But those leased in 1962 (according to Finnair's history above) must have been one of the earlier variants. AY got the first Super Caravelles in 1964. Were some of them leased too as the LH timetable suggests? Incidentally, my first Caravelle (AY) flight as a kid (and first jet flight) took place in 1960, with parents from Cologne(I think) to HEL.
 
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ekkaihla
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:25 am

Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:53 am

rutankrd wrote:
Scottiedog wrote:
Think the Super Caravelle might have been Finnair as not to many airlines had them in Europe as they were designed for United in the US.

Super Caravelle (Caravelle 10B3) were not designed for United. United had RR Avon powered Caravelle 6Rs. Super Caravelle had JT8Ds.

The Lufthansa wet leased ones from Finnair were Caravelle IIIs, which operated the Frankfurt-Paris route during the time they would have otherwise sat on the ground waiting for the late afternoon return to Helsinki (info from John Wegg's book "Caravelle - The Complete Story").

-Esa
ekkaihla
 
FCKC
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

Re: Lufthansa Caravelle?

Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:22 pm

Do not know about the Finnair SE210s , but know Lufthansa had a pool with Air France , and at least one Caravelle3 was in full Air France cs , but with very readable Lufthansa sticker.When will be home , will search for this picture.

A little bit out of this topic , Air France did the same with Avianca , this time with a 707-320B , sportting Avianca sticker.
I also know at least a BAC111 in full BEA cs had Air France stickers on the engines.Probably if you find a timetables of Air France of this period , you will find Air France had BAC111s , and of course they hadn't ! Pretty sure so many stories like that , could be found as it was in the air during the 60s.

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