As usual, the ORD haters post their hatred of ORD. While ORD may not be the next TP destination, I'm sure it's ahead of your precious ATL, CLE, DFW, IAH, etc.

airbazar wrote:

continental004 wrote:

Then explain the addition of BOS and JFK. Close proximity to two of the largest Portuguese-speaking communities in the nation.

Some O&D helps but BOS and JFK are major B6 hubs. EWR is the NYC airport for the Portuguese community. BOS and New England Portuguese disapora are predominantly from the Azores not the mainland. If you've ever been on the BOS-LIS flight as many times as I have, it's easy to notice a huge percentage of the passengers are NOT Portuguese, and a large number are connecting. Especially so outside of the Summer months and xmas period. MIA is also not a Portuguese community and TP flies there.

Freshside3 wrote:

Yes, everyone is looking, in terms of LIS service, since it is the largest city and hub for TP. But, just came to mind that OPO could also use a trip to the USA, in fact, frequent flyers have asked for service to OPO. Maybe OPO to BOS/NYC airports, or even IAD(solely on partner UA feed) could be a possibility.

TP already flies EWR-OPO.

Freshside3 wrote:

Problem with SATA is they will be getting A321s, to replace what they currently have in the fleet. The 321s don't even have anywhere close to the range needed to get to OAK. I suspect that OAK will be axed from the schedule, at some point, because of this.

SATA wet leases aircraft in the Summer in order to be able to serve OAK and all other seasonal routes. I expect that to continue.
The A321's are replacing the A310's. The A310's do not fly non-stop to OAK. The route is TER-BOS-OAK. The A321 can do that too. They also have 1 A330. And they will also likely continue to lease aircraft in the Summer for extra lift.

Did not know that EWR-OPO existed. Is it a seasonal and/or non-daily trip? Also, perhaps the frequent flyer request for OPO service probably came from non-Star members.
Had no clue that OAK-TER had a stop. Knew they had a A330 and presumed they used that one nonstop. Thanks for clarifying that.

Great to see TP stretching their legs. Curious what ever happened with the talks of launching a route to PEK? If I am not mistaken that is!

Off topic any news concerning the new LIS airport? The current airport is operating well beyond capacity...

EK413

Would they start any asian flights?

tacobell101 wrote:

Would they start any asian flights?

I highly doubt it considering their georgraphical location I just remember stumbling across an article of Asia being served.

EK413

That's why I asked about DXB. It could offer Asia connectivity for TP in conjunction with EK.

EK413 wrote:

tacobell101 wrote:

Would they start any asian flights?

I highly doubt it considering their georgraphical location I just remember stumbling across an article of Asia being served.

EK413

TP officials have confirmed that the airline will fly to China by summer 2017, they have been granted 4xweekly flights to PEK.
Recent agreements have been signed off.

I can certainly see DUB being one, obviously EI & FR have the DUB-LIS O&D covered but where TP would have an advantage is transfers to South America. Plenty of South American nationals here so I can't see why 3/4 weekly wouldn't work.

Alicante is a must. A hole, short, not served and with a high potential for Latam conections.

I agree with all the options, so maybe I can give a little more.
Europe- Athens, Zagreb, Palma de Mallorca, Manchester, Dublin, Istanbul and Budapest.
Africa- Abidjan, Bamako/Lome and Tunis
N.America- Washington/Chicago in US while Toronto/Montreal in Canada

globalcabotage wrote:

As usual, the ORD haters post their hatred of ORD. While ORD may not be the next TP destination, I'm sure it's ahead of your precious ATL, CLE, DFW, IAH, etc.

Although I would not put either at the top of the list I think IAH would be well ahead of ORD simply because the economies or both regions are closer. There are Portuguese companies that have become significant players in the energy sector (both fossil fuels and renewable), with significant exploration in Africa and Brazil. Shipping is also an important sector of the Portuguese economy. The port of Sines is one of the largest transshipment ports in Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ment_ports). So if TP could offer good connections between IAH and Angola/West Africa/Mozambique/etc this route could work. Conversely, UA would provide on-wards connections for TP passengers wanting to travel to Mexico, Central America, and the Western U.S.

santos wrote:

TP officials have confirmed that the airline will fly to China by summer 2017, they have been granted 4xweekly flights to PEK.
Recent agreements have been signed off.

What? Can you provide a link?
When David Neeleman took over TP last year he canceled the A350 order for A339's and said that "flying to China would be a suicide".
http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/empresas ... a_tap.html
I think you are thinking about a statement that the president of Portugal made years ago, when TP ordered the A350. That plan went out the window when TP was privatized last year. With Hainan now as one of the largest share holders of TP, I think we are more likely to see HU serve LIS than TP serving China.

upwardfacing wrote:

That's why I asked about DXB. It could offer Asia connectivity for TP in conjunction with EK.

Would be a sweet deal but there's not much in it for EK even if such a deal was struck. Whilst on the subject did EK boost DXB-LIS to double daily B77W?

EK413

It's probably a wild dream, but it would be nice to see them in Macau again. This time around, it would be different. First, there is connection traffic from China. In 1998, the tourist and business traffic from China to Portugal would be zero. With current infrastructure in southern China, they can catch the southern China-Brazil/West Africa traffic via Lisbon too. They also have A332 now vs. A343 last time, which would make it more efficient. And if they don't do stupid routing like in 1998 (MFM-BRU-LIS, MFM-BKK-LIS, MFM-BKK-IST-LIS!), I think they do have a chance to make it work with 3/weekly A332.

I really hope Basel is in with a good shout there. It's been too long the routes from LIS and OPO have been left to easyJet at fairly high (monopolistic) prices. TAP last served BSL about ten years ago, using Portugalia's EMB-145 and occasional F100s ...



JOEL

Could a Jersey service work ? There seemed to be a lot of Portuguese workers in the hotel / restaurant trade when I was last there.

who would likely be looking for an EZY/FR rather than full fare legacy

santos wrote:

TP officials have confirmed that the airline will fly to China by summer 2017, they have been granted 4xweekly flights to PEK.
Recent agreements have been signed off.

What? Can you provide a link?
When David Neeleman took over TP last year he canceled the A350 order for A339's and said that "flying to China would be a suicide"

Here is the link, in Portuguese only tho.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/economia/2016-0 ... ao-de-2017

I think TP's model is a bit like TK's so definitely not focused on O&D. I recently flew BCN-BOS via LIS as it was a phenomenal fare - $270 one way with checked bag, free food and free alcoholic drinks and free IFE. They are giving LCC and full-service carriers a run for their money. Flying on A330 beats WOW's A321s across the Atlantic any day. I have no idea about TP's cost structure so I hope they are making money but the product is very competitive on both LCC and full-service ends of the spectrum.

VS11 wrote:

I think TP's model is a bit like TK's so definitely not focused on O&D. I recently flew BCN-BOS via LIS as it was a phenomenal fare - $270 one way with checked bag, free food and free alcoholic drinks and free IFE. They are giving LCC and full-service carriers a run for their money. Flying on A330 beats WOW's A321s across the Atlantic any day. I have no idea about TP's cost structure so I hope they are making money but the product is very competitive on both LCC and full-service ends of the spectrum.

i also flew with them from MIA and they were wonderful! low price, great service and connectivity. i really feel they can expand in the US succeed.

santos wrote:

Here is the link, in Portuguese only tho.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/economia/2016-0 ... ao-de-2017

Wow, if that were to happen, that is quite a turn around from what he stated barely a year ago.

VS11 wrote:

I have no idea about TP's cost structure so I hope they are making money but the product is very competitive on both LCC and full-service ends of the spectrum.

Their cost structure is one of the lowest of the legacy carriers in Europe. Not as low as TK but on par with most LCC's.
They also have the geographic advantage of having a hub closest to the U.S. Shorter segments equals lower fuel bill. And when the A321LR starts to join the fleet it will be even lower. 2xA321LR have a lower trip cost than 1xA332, while carrying more passengers.

EK413 wrote:

upwardfacing wrote:

That's why I asked about DXB. It could offer Asia connectivity for TP in conjunction with EK.

Would be a sweet deal but there's not much in it for EK even if such a deal was struck. Whilst on the subject did EK boost DXB-LIS to double daily B77W?

EK413

They are dropping the second daily. They are reducing a substantial number of routes, apparently due to crew shortage, perhaps for other reasons as well.

Those who guessed Toronto were close. Those who guessed Montreal were even closer. Apparently the new N.American destination for 2017 will be YUL.
https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas/663785/
Not confirmed yet by TP but then again we saw how long it took them to officially announce BOS and JFK.

[quote="airbazar"]

They also have the geographic advantage of having a hub closest to the U.S.

LIS is indeed close to the USA compared to most European hubs but for key ports likes BOS/JFK/IAD/MIA both KEF and DUB are shorter segments per the GC Map.

Looking at BOS & JFK to Europe, connecting via DUB is shorter than LIS for many points in Europe except for cities in the Iberian peninsula. BOD and MRS, for instance, are shorter via DUB than LIS, as are FCO and ATH too.

I've no idea how easy it is to connect via LIS or if they offer shorter layovers than DUB or KEF but LIS certainly is not closer to the US than either of those airports for many destinations in Europe.

styles9002 wrote:

I've no idea how easy it is to connect via LIS or if they offer shorter layovers than DUB or KEF but LIS certainly is not closer to the US than either of those airports for many destinations in Europe.

I said "a hub" not "the hub" closest to the U.S. It's no wonder that airlines like EI, FI, and WOW are taking advantage of their proximity by operating TATL routes with A321/757 and in the future NEO/MAX aircraft. My point was that TP will be doing the same except where demand really begs for an A330.

airbazar wrote:

styles9002 wrote:

I've no idea how easy it is to connect via LIS or if they offer shorter layovers than DUB or KEF but LIS certainly is not closer to the US than either of those airports for many destinations in Europe.

I said "a hub" not "the hub" closest to the U.S. It's no wonder that airlines like EI, FI, and WOW are taking advantage of their proximity by operating TATL routes with A321/757 and in the future NEO/MAX aircraft. My point was that TP will be doing the same except where demand really begs for an A330.

How is LIS to transfer through? Any possibility of US CBP being added to it?

No chance of returning to BOG?

styles9002 wrote:

How is LIS to transfer through? Any possibility of US CBP being added to it?

No different than any other medium-size European airport. If you don't have an EU passport, try to avoid arriving at the same time as the Africa and Brazil flights. Still no where near as bad as a U.S. airport on its best day, for international transfers but that's not saying much

Cipango wrote:

There is a very large (and growing) Brazilian population in Ireland so DUB may work well offering connections to South America.

I'm not sure that's enough for a few flights a week. Maybe it could work using the EMB190's.

I'm really hoping that one of these routes will be a return to Johannesburg. I never understood why TAP dropped it in favor of connections through Maputo in the first place. There is a huge Portuguese population in Jozi and South Africa in general. Surely must have always been a profitable route?

On a personal level, I'm moving to just outside Lisbon in January and frequently visit family back in SA. Would be very handy.

My bet is IAH. Star alliance hub at both ends. Oil traffic to north and east Africa would help yields, assuming oil continues to rebound slowly.

Anansaudiajet wrote:

Europe- Athens

I doubt it. Aegean launched the route this year and beat them to it. 4 weekly in the summer, 2 weekly in the winter with a TAP codeshare.

PSG55 wrote:

I'm really hoping that one of these routes will be a return to Johannesburg. I never understood why TAP dropped it in favor of connections through Maputo in the first place. There is a huge Portuguese population in Jozi and South Africa in general. Surely must have always been a profitable route?

If JNB was a profitable route it wouldn't be dropped at first place.

For TP JNB is a low yielding destination because of traffic mix - mainly VFR (Visiting Frinds and Relatives) which hunts the lowest fare and few business traffic, wich pays high revenue Y fares or Business class.
Also competition from other europeans hubs is fierce and made the route unsustainable.

MPM on the other hand has low competition (driving higher fares overall), still has VFR traffic but much healthier business demand as portuguese invests heavily on Mozambique.

I could see they trying JNB again with a high density A332 and southbound daylight flight in order to improve fleet utilization and connect to US.

Hmm, I think will they reach LAX like this and in my country birth England I suspect BHX is next.

Maybe will they fly to Dubai sometimes? I think EK and TP still have partnership

As far as US cities there are always the defaults....JFK/EWR, LAX, ORD, MIA, BOS, IAD.

lavalampluva wrote:

As far as US cities there are always the defaults....JFK/EWR, LAX, ORD, MIA, BOS, IAD.

And they already fly to half of those.

gatibosgru wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

As far as US cities there are always the defaults....JFK/EWR, LAX, ORD, MIA, BOS, IAD.

And they already fly to half of those.

They fly to JFK, EWR, MIA, and BOS. That's it.
All indications are that the next N.American city will be Montreal.
I would love to see them go outside the box a little and tap into a secondary city like RDU but I suspect that would wait for the A321NEO.
In the immediate future, IAD would make the most sense.

Anansaudiajet wrote:

I agree with all the options, so maybe I can give a little more.
Europe- Athens, Zagreb, Palma de Mallorca, Manchester, Dublin, Istanbul and Budapest.
Africa- Abidjan, Bamako/Lome and Tunis
N.America- Washington/Chicago in US while Toronto/Montreal in Canada

TAP have been serving Manchester for the last three years!

yellowtail wrote:

My bet is IAH. Star alliance hub at both ends. Oil traffic to north and east Africa would help yields, assuming oil continues to rebound slowly.

Plus IAH is suited well, In the middle of country kinda, so it's good for the West, Midwest, and the South. You got the south of the border connections too.

TC957 wrote:

Could a Jersey service work ? There seemed to be a lot of Portuguese workers in the hotel / restaurant trade when I was last there.

Your find that most of the Portuguese workers in Jersey originate from Madiera, Jersey was a very popular place for Madeirans to move to in the 1980s and 90s.

gatibosgru wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

As far as US cities there are always the defaults....JFK/EWR, LAX, ORD, MIA, BOS, IAD.

And they already fly to half of those.

The list I provided were just cities which normally are the first batch to get new international service. I knew that TAP already flew to some of them.

Range of A321-NEOLR;

https://leehamnews.com/2014/10/21/exclusive-airbus-launches-a321neolr-long-range-to-replace-757-200w/
Kiran Rao, EVP sales and marketing for Airbus, confirmed the new model today. He said the A321neoLR will have a range of 3,900nm, or about 100nm more than the operational range of the 757W. (Advertised range is 4,100nm.) The additional fuel tanks add 400-500nm to the A321neo’s range, he said.

4,100 nautical miles = 4718.19574 Miles.

TAP has 24 A231NEOs on order.

Let's start with the North, and work South;

LIS-BOS; 3,192 mi. Currently served, and now a prime candidate to up frequencies with.
LIS-YUL; 3,261 mi. Star Alliance Hub. Announced.
LIS-EWR; 3,384 mi. Currently served, and now a prime candidate to up frequencies (and/or offer a 'premium service' upgraded experience) with (if at all possible, given 'crowding' at EWR).
LIS-IAD; 3,592 mi. Currently seasonal with UA - but with UA's current issues, I could see TP either coming in seasonal (and taking advantage of the UA hub), or year round.
LIS-CLT; 3,875 mi. It would be rough, as they would have no support on the CLT side, and AA could retaliate. That said, it could also be an interesting add, but a more risk-sensative one.
LIS-ATL; 4,101 mi. Oh, what a day that would be!
LIS-MCO; 4,117 mi. Sure, low-yeilds are not ideal for this airplane, however B6's presence there (and A321s displacing some of the larger fleet members) could free up an A330 for a MCO run.
LIS-FLL; 4,139 mi. B6's feed here would help, and while it may cannibalize MIA's feeds - I am not convinced that they would not find an equally appealing 'gain' from the FLL feed.
LIS-MIA; 4,157 mi. Not that I see it coming to this, but if the does - it can work. You can up frequencies, or right size (if you add FLL, or MCO and see a bleed in feed).

I intentionally left out three cities;
JFK - which they probably get such healthy yields that they would put their flagship there.
PHL - seasonal on AA. They would have no feed, on the PHL side, and also might jeopardize the EWR/JFK feed.
RDU - high yielding, but also will be the places where both AA and DL are already at the height of their competitive peaks (in the leanest sense of the word/hub). The saving graces of both UA and B6 perhaps assisting TAP on the RDU feed aside, both AA and DL have local feeds to pull from, as well as their leanest aircraft being in range (in order to tackle), and/or having already served on the RDU-European routes already. Could they cut into AA's 787's (to LHR) and/or DL's 767 (to CDG) yeilds? Sure, but both DL and AA are well equipped to not only hold the line, but also right-size (as they will soon both also be able to come onto A321NEOLRs) and then tacker on seasonal LIS service (as they both do now, with DL on JFK-LIS, and AA on PHL-LIS). While it is a wild card, its one that runs the risk of a competing hand. There are lower hanging fruit. If you add IAD, then you have to reconfigure the expectations for RDU. Would it canabalize those feeds, or, perhaps, could it up the appeal to European/Portuguese passengers - with a more impressive footprint?

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LIS-MIA%0D ... =wls&DU=mi

Now, though technically not North American; there are a few other destinations in the area that might work as well (especially if you chose to cater to a charter group);

LIS-SJU; 3,664 mi. B6s help here could also be crucial. That said, I doubt many would connect from the Mainland, via P.R. to get to Europe. Potentially high risk, but the aircraft would be the best here.
LIS-SDQ; 3,861 mi. This would be tight.
LIS-PUJ; 3,786 mi. Previously served.

I respectfully disagree on IAH. This would overpass ORD and all the connections that would not back track as IAH offers. Again, the hatred and disrespect of ORDs location and offerings on this forum is amazing!

Just a reminder here that Tap used to fly to china a while back. Long long story but to make it short it they were flying PVG MXP LIS.

This is when AZ was restructuring and gave up its route and put its codeshare on TAP metal. This flight was also axed and Air China eventually took over the route to Milan with AZ code share and axed the LIS tag on which I believe still operates.

Just stated yesterday by Mr. Neeleman, TP intends to grow to 70 weekly flights to the U.S. in the next 3 years. He also pointed out the the potential for flights to the Azores from the U.S. So it sounds like we will be seeing some TP flights between the Azores and the U.S.
He also stated that the only reason keeping them from having more flights today is the congestion at LIS.

airbazar wrote:

Just stated yesterday by Mr. Neeleman, TP intends to grow to 70 weekly flights to the U.S. in the next 3 years. He also pointed out the the potential for flights to the Azores from the U.S. So it sounds like we will be seeing some TP flights between the Azores and the U.S.
He also stated that the only reason keeping them from having more flights today is the congestion at LIS.

Just curiousity here. But given that S4 is also going to get 321LR's is there a case for TP and S4 to combine forces. Would seem certain synergys would be there. Especially if the somewhat fanciful rumors of FR showing up in the Azores are to be believed

I am not one for mergers at all, but is there enough of a market for 2 airlines from there, let alone more?

Nice to see TP doing well and I do hope some of these additional frequencies appear at BOS, however space as always might be an issue

It is YYZ, they are already hiring a District Sales Manager.

http://ca.indeed.com/viewjob?from=appsh ... 7904dd68be

Yessssssss! Finally!!! Welcome back to YYZ!!!

VS4ever wrote:

I am not one for mergers at all, but is there enough of a market for 2 airlines from there, let alone more?

The 2 airlines are very different. SATA's primary target customer is VFR hence the locations they fly to and the crap product they offer. They have no competition in that segment. TP's new strategy is to be more of a TATL player, leverage Portugal as a destination, and create a market where it sees potential. I could see TP flying from PDL to BOS, NYC and IAD with the NEO.

oceanbeat wrote:

It is YYZ, they are already hiring a District Sales Manager.

could be but I wouldn't put too much stock in that. That's a sales position for Canada so it's not surprising that it is located in Toronto.
TP people already said it would be Montreal first, Toronto later, and that order makes sense to me. YUL is a safer market to enter in Canada.
https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas/663785/

airbazar wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

I am not one for mergers at all, but is there enough of a market for 2 airlines from there, let alone more?

The 2 airlines are very different. SATA's primary target customer is VFR hence the locations they fly to and the crap product they offer. They have no competition in that segment. TP's new strategy is to be more of a TATL player, leverage Portugal as a destination, and create a market where it sees potential. I could see TP flying from PDL to BOS, NYC and IAD with the NEO.

oceanbeat wrote:

It is YYZ, they are already hiring a District Sales Manager.

could be but I wouldn't put too much stock in that. That's a sales position for Canada so it's not surprising that it is located in Toronto.
TP people already said it would be Montreal first, Toronto later, and that order makes sense to me. YUL is a safer market to enter in Canada.
https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas/663785/

TP has also been talking about YYZ for a year now. By putting the sales rep in YYZ, it lends itself to opening YYZ, wouldn't make a lot of sense to put their reps at YYZ and open YUL instead.

I am just curious (not calling you out, I genuinely am interested to hear your take) as to why YUL would be safer, I always figured YYZ would be given its greater population base, and more feed from AC.