Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
NichCage wrote:YVR has been doing really good with all of the new routes for 2016. The YVR-HKG market is pretty big, and I also bet airlines like Cathay Pacific carry onward traffic to other Asian destinations, such as BKK, SIN, etc. If someone could answer this question for me, does Cathay Pacific in general fly a lot of traffic from North America to India? (like from YVR, SFO, LAX, etc).
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
YVR-FRA is actually a route Air Canada wanted to fly for a while I think, but maybe they needed to wait for the right aircraft to fly the route, which could be the 787.
YVR-MAN would no doubt be flown by Air Canada Rouge, as I don't think the route would operate well on mainline.
RL777 wrote:NichCage wrote:YVR has been doing really good with all of the new routes for 2016. The YVR-HKG market is pretty big, and I also bet airlines like Cathay Pacific carry onward traffic to other Asian destinations, such as BKK, SIN, etc. If someone could answer this question for me, does Cathay Pacific in general fly a lot of traffic from North America to India? (like from YVR, SFO, LAX, etc).
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
YVR-FRA is actually a route Air Canada wanted to fly for a while I think, but maybe they needed to wait for the right aircraft to fly the route, which could be the 787.
YVR-MAN would no doubt be flown by Air Canada Rouge, as I don't think the route would operate well on mainline.
India is the #1 connecting destination from YVR in the CX network with Shanghai following close behind.
NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
CPA62 wrote:YVR seem to be having a good year. year to August 31 passenger numbers up 10.1% overall with European passengers numbers up 15% and Asia Pacific up 13.9% and Mexico south America up 25%
some new routes started and announced in 2016:
YVR-BNE AC
YVR-NGO AC
YVR-TPE AC
YVR-DEL AC
YVR-XMN MF
YVR-MEX AM
YVR-DFW AC
Some rumoured routes for 2017:
YVR-HKG HX
YVR-IST TK
YVR-FRA AC
YVR-MAN AC
Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
raylee67 wrote:Would not be surprised to see HX flying HKG-YVR. That's pretty much the only North American route its current fleet can fly to (using A332) without weight penalties both direction all year-round. And it's strong with connecting traffic to secondary cities in China, so YVR would be a no-brainer.
Of other possibilities, I think it would be quite possible that other secondary Chinese carriers will make entry into YVR. Since their hub operations are not very well-defined, they may fly from any secondary cities from China. I guess primary targets would be Nanjing, Hangzhou, Qingdao, Tianjin or even some inland cities such as Wuhan, Chengdu or Chongqing. It could be Tianjin Airlines, Capital Airlines, Hainan Airlines or Shenzhen Airlines, etc.
Would Bangalore be a possibility? There should be a lot of business (aka tech) traffic between Bangalore and North America. Vancouver would be an ideal connecting point for that. May be it can handle four or five weekly 788?
And then for VFR traffic to India, Amritsar would be a destinations with a lot of traffic too. Whether anyone can make that profitable is another question. I suppose it would be low yielding and highly seasonal.
If CX is successful in the new 3 weekly A359 flight to YVR, I wonder if it will make that flight daily, making YVR 3 daily, with 2x77W + 1x359, or downgauging one of the 77W flight to 359 to make it 1x77W + 2x359. After all, more 359s are coming online and CX's business model is to provide more frequencies.
Lastly, would AC be able to fly YVR-DXB 3/weekly with the current bilaterals with UAE? It permits UAE carriers to fly 6 weekly to Canada, in which EK and EY each is utilizing 3/weekly. I think AC is only doing 3/weekly on YYZ-DXB? That would mean AC can either increase frequency on YYZ-DXB, or it can run a monopoly route from DXB to another Canadian city with 3/weekly? During oil boom-time, I would expect that will go YYC-DXB, but now I think if AC is even thinking about adding another Canadian destination for DXB, that will be YVR-DXB.
Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
usflyer123 wrote:im pretty sure Copa can be successful in YVR.
CPA62 wrote:some new routes started and announced in 2016:
YVR-BNE AC
YVR-NGO AC
YVR-TPE AC
YVR-DEL AC
YVR-XMN MF
YVR-MEX AM
YVR-DFW AC
Some rumoured routes for 2017:
YVR-HKG HX
YVR-IST TK
YVR-FRA AC
YVR-MAN AC
raylee67 wrote:Would not be surprised to see HX flying HKG-YVR. That's pretty much the only North American route its current fleet can fly to (using A332) without weight penalties both direction all year-round. And it's strong with connecting traffic to secondary cities in China, so YVR would be a no-brainer.
Of other possibilities, I think it would be quite possible that other secondary Chinese carriers will make entry into YVR. Since their hub operations are not very well-defined, they may fly from any secondary cities from China. I guess primary targets would be Nanjing, Hangzhou, Qingdao, Tianjin or even some inland cities such as Wuhan, Chengdu or Chongqing. It could be Tianjin Airlines, Capital Airlines, Hainan Airlines or Shenzhen Airlines, etc.
Would Bangalore be a possibility? There should be a lot of business (aka tech) traffic between Bangalore and North America. Vancouver would be an ideal connecting point for that. May be it can handle four or five weekly 788?
And then for VFR traffic to India, Amritsar would be a destinations with a lot of traffic too. Whether anyone can make that profitable is another question. I suppose it would be low yielding and highly seasonal.
If CX is successful in the new 3 weekly A359 flight to YVR, I wonder if it will make that flight daily, making YVR 3 daily, with 2x77W + 1x359, or downgauging one of the 77W flight to 359 to make it 1x77W + 2x359. After all, more 359s are coming online and CX's business model is to provide more frequencies.
Lastly, would AC be able to fly YVR-DXB 3/weekly with the current bilaterals with UAE? It permits UAE carriers to fly 6 weekly to Canada, in which EK and EY each is utilizing 3/weekly. I think AC is only doing 3/weekly on YYZ-DXB? That would mean AC can either increase frequency on YYZ-DXB, or it can run a monopoly route from DXB to another Canadian city with 3/weekly? During oil boom-time, I would expect that will go YYC-DXB, but now I think if AC is even thinking about adding another Canadian destination for DXB, that will be YVR-DXB.
NichCage wrote:
I have some thoughts about what you said about a YVR-BLR flight. First of all, while India is generally unserved from YVR at this point until Air Canada launches YVR-DEL, Vancouver does not have a tech industry. I may be wrong, but YVR-BLR would never be launched.
Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
ankaraflyjet wrote:AC flights between YYZ and IST is doing very well actually and I do not think that AC will terminate IST. I use these flights very often and loads are always high, in fact other than once (July this year due to political unrest in Turkey) I have never seen a flight other than full board on all three cabins (used to be two class before May 16 when the route was operated by 767).
Turkey has now a seat in the Board of ICAO and the Turkish Minister delivered a Press Release last week in Montreal at the opening ceremony of TK's DT office in Montreal that they revised their application to Canadian CAA to increase IST YYZ and IST YUL daily and start 3 weekly IST YVR. With the opening of the worlds largest Airport in IST not so faraway it will eventually happen, moreover we will see more destinations (probably IST YYC) to add on after a couple of years IST YVR is introduced or may be a triangle route like IST-YYC-YVR-IST may be possible too..
I am quite positive that IST YVR will happen in 2017...Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
ankaraflyjet wrote:AC flights between YYZ and IST is doing very well actually and I do not think that AC will terminate IST. I use these flights very often and loads are always high, in fact other than once (July this year due to political unrest in Turkey) I have never seen a flight other than full board on all three cabins (used to be two class before May 16 when the route was operated by 767).
Turkey has now a seat in the Board of ICAO and the Turkish Minister delivered a Press Release last week in Montreal at the opening ceremony of TK's DT office in Montreal that they revised their application to Canadian CAA to increase IST YYZ and IST YUL daily and start 3 weekly IST YVR. With the opening of the worlds largest Airport in IST not so faraway it will eventually happen, moreover we will see more destinations (probably IST YYC) to add on after a couple of years IST YVR is introduced or may be a triangle route like IST-YYC-YVR-IST may be possible too..
I am quite positive that IST YVR will happen in 2017...Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
DolphinAir747 wrote:ankaraflyjet wrote:AC flights between YYZ and IST is doing very well actually and I do not think that AC will terminate IST. I use these flights very often and loads are always high, in fact other than once (July this year due to political unrest in Turkey) I have never seen a flight other than full board on all three cabins (used to be two class before May 16 when the route was operated by 767).
Turkey has now a seat in the Board of ICAO and the Turkish Minister delivered a Press Release last week in Montreal at the opening ceremony of TK's DT office in Montreal that they revised their application to Canadian CAA to increase IST YYZ and IST YUL daily and start 3 weekly IST YVR. With the opening of the worlds largest Airport in IST not so faraway it will eventually happen, moreover we will see more destinations (probably IST YYC) to add on after a couple of years IST YVR is introduced or may be a triangle route like IST-YYC-YVR-IST may be possible too..
I am quite positive that IST YVR will happen in 2017...Thenoflyzone wrote:
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
AC's fares to IST are complete trash. If they'll have such low yields might as well have RV handle it.
I would love to see CX add a tag-on YVR-MIA sinxe MIA is an important business market from HKG, or Swire Group especially.
Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
raylee67 wrote:Lastly, would AC be able to fly YVR-DXB 3/weekly with the current bilaterals with UAE? It permits UAE carriers to fly 6 weekly to Canada, in which EK and EY each is utilizing 3/weekly. I think AC is only doing 3/weekly on YYZ-DXB? That would mean AC can either increase frequency on YYZ-DXB, or it can run a monopoly route from DXB to another Canadian city with 3/weekly? During oil boom-time, I would expect that will go YYC-DXB, but now I think if AC is even thinking about adding another Canadian destination for DXB, that will be YVR-DXB.
Whiteguy wrote:AC cannot add anymore flights between Canada and UAE. The bilateral agreement is 6 flights per week but one airline can only max 3 flights per week. That's why EK & EY operate 3 each....
ankaraflyjet wrote:AC flights between YYZ and IST is doing very well actually and I do not think that AC will terminate IST. I use these flights very often and loads are always high, in fact other than once (July this year due to political unrest in Turkey) I have never seen a flight other than full board on all three cabins (used to be two class before May 16 when the route was operated by 767).
Turkey has now a seat in the Board of ICAO and the Turkish Minister delivered a Press Release last week in Montreal at the opening ceremony of TK's DT office in Montreal that they revised their application to Canadian CAA to increase IST YYZ and IST YUL daily and start 3 weekly IST YVR. With the opening of the worlds largest Airport in IST not so faraway it will eventually happen, moreover we will see more destinations (probably IST YYC) to add on after a couple of years IST YVR is introduced or may be a triangle route like IST-YYC-YVR-IST may be possible too..
I am quite positive that IST YVR will happen in 2017...Thenoflyzone wrote:NichCage wrote:
Even though Turkish Airlines is cutting a lot of flights, long haul growth is now there focus. I am sure in the future Turkish Airlines will recover at some point, but they have annouced intentions to fly to YVR. Hopefully they get the permission this time to fly IST-YVR.
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
longhauler wrote:Whiteguy wrote:AC cannot add anymore flights between Canada and UAE. The bilateral agreement is 6 flights per week but one airline can only max 3 flights per week. That's why EK & EY operate 3 each....
Technically that is true, but that is not why EY and EK operate only 3 flights per week. The Canada/UAE bilateral air agreement allows up to 6 frequencies per week for each country. More than 3 on one airline requries approval on both sides.
When EK applied for approval, they were given 6 flights per week, per the agreement. They demanded daily, and were denied, per the agreement. Pouting, they then said they would not fly to Canada if they couldn't have daily.
EY then stepped up, requested and were approved for 3 flights per week. These flights were successful. Fearing that EY would get the 3 remaining frequencies, EK grabbed them. Had EK accepted the offer of 6/wk from the start, then that is what they would be flying today.
The bilateral air agreement allows for seasonal or permanent increase of frequencies if proof of demand for O&D traffic can be made. To date, that has not been the case.
Whiteguy wrote:It's funny, I had alway said the same story about EK and told I was wrong.....
Read the agreement myself and came to the above conclusion reading it....
longhauler wrote:Whiteguy wrote:It's funny, I had alway said the same story about EK and told I was wrong.....
Read the agreement myself and came to the above conclusion reading it....
Yes, I am sure the UAE itself and EK fans would like to pretend it didn't happen. It certainly wasn't their shining moment.
But ... I was there and watched it unfold in amazement. I remember the byline in the business section of the newspaper, "If we can't have daily, we won't come to Canada at all".
You are right though. Canada's bilateral air agreements are in the public domain and are very easily understood.
keitherson wrote:ankaraflyjet wrote:AC flights between YYZ and IST is doing very well actually and I do not think that AC will terminate IST. I use these flights very often and loads are always high, in fact other than once (July this year due to political unrest in Turkey) I have never seen a flight other than full board on all three cabins (used to be two class before May 16 when the route was operated by 767).
Turkey has now a seat in the Board of ICAO and the Turkish Minister delivered a Press Release last week in Montreal at the opening ceremony of TK's DT office in Montreal that they revised their application to Canadian CAA to increase IST YYZ and IST YUL daily and start 3 weekly IST YVR. With the opening of the worlds largest Airport in IST not so faraway it will eventually happen, moreover we will see more destinations (probably IST YYC) to add on after a couple of years IST YVR is introduced or may be a triangle route like IST-YYC-YVR-IST may be possible too..
I am quite positive that IST YVR will happen in 2017...Thenoflyzone wrote:
TK are maxed out on their frequency allocation to Canada. Right now, they are 6x weekly to YYZ and 3x weekly to YUL and cannot increase. The bilateral will need to be tweaked in order to add new flights.
I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Also, i'm amazed AC is still flying to IST. I wouldn't be surprised if they call it quits on the route in the coming months.
"ankaraflyjet" the chances of more service being launched to Turkey when the entire Pegasus fleet is up for lease and airplane orders are being delayed by Turkish are as big as nonstop North American service to the city in your name
VCEflyboy wrote:Another new route that came up this year was YVR FCO by air transit albeit only one-weekly and seasonal but apparently is coming back next summer.
.
LIRF wrote:VCEflyboy wrote:Another new route that came up this year was YVR FCO by air transit albeit only one-weekly and seasonal but apparently is coming back next summer.
.
No, according to GDS Air Transat is not resuming that route next year.
VCEflyboy wrote:Another new route that came up this year was YVR FCO by air transit albeit only one-weekly and seasonal but apparently is coming back next summer.
Unfortunately TK has seen better days and is in the middle of a cutting spree so I doubt they will fly to YVR any time soon.
Too bad it's not all good news. Alaska has cut flights from YVR and I believe it only operates one daily flight at the moment, which is quite shocking for us in YVR as Alaska has probably the most popular FF program in town after AC and I assume WestJet.
Whiteguy wrote:longhauler wrote:Whiteguy wrote:AC cannot add anymore flights between Canada and UAE. The bilateral agreement is 6 flights per week but one airline can only max 3 flights per week. That's why EK & EY operate 3 each....
Technically that is true, but that is not why EY and EK operate only 3 flights per week. The Canada/UAE bilateral air agreement allows up to 6 frequencies per week for each country. More than 3 on one airline requries approval on both sides.
When EK applied for approval, they were given 6 flights per week, per the agreement. They demanded daily, and were denied, per the agreement. Pouting, they then said they would not fly to Canada if they couldn't have daily.
EY then stepped up, requested and were approved for 3 flights per week. These flights were successful. Fearing that EY would get the 3 remaining frequencies, EK grabbed them. Had EK accepted the offer of 6/wk from the start, then that is what they would be flying today.
The bilateral air agreement allows for seasonal or permanent increase of frequencies if proof of demand for O&D traffic can be made. To date, that has not been the case.
It's funny, I had alway said the same story about EK and told I was wrong.....
Read the agreement myself and came to the above conclusion reading it....
iFlyDTW wrote:A route that I think needs evaluation is YVR-DTW, DL runs this flight on Saturday's only for like 3 months of the summer, judging the O&D on both sides should warrant a daily nonstop at leased.
Viscount724 wrote:LIRF wrote:VCEflyboy wrote:Another new route that came up this year was YVR FCO by air transit albeit only one-weekly and seasonal but apparently is coming back next summer.
.
No, according to GDS Air Transat is not resuming that route next year.
Highly doubt TS has finalized summer 2017 operations this far in advance.
NichCage wrote:I have some thoughts about what you said about a YVR-BLR flight. First of all, while India is generally unserved from YVR at this point until Air Canada launches YVR-DEL, Vancouver does not have a tech industry. I may be wrong, but YVR-BLR would never be launched.
RL777 wrote:KLM will be using the 787-9 to YVR beginning in September of 2017.
keitherson wrote:Vancouver (YVR) – Zhengzhou (CGO)
Sichuan 8502
What the hell is Zhengzhou?? Why does this route exist?
Viscount724 wrote:keitherson wrote:Vancouver (YVR) – Zhengzhou (CGO)
Sichuan 8502
What the hell is Zhengzhou?? Why does this route exist?
Zhengzhou is the capital of Henan province and has a metro area population of almost 10 million, much larger than any city in Canada..
CPA62 wrote:YVR seem to be having a good year. year to August 31 passenger numbers up 10.1% overall with European passengers numbers up 15% and Asia Pacific up 13.9% and Mexico south America up 25%
some new routes started and announced in 2016:
YVR-BNE AC
YVR-NGO AC
YVR-TPE AC
YVR-DEL AC
YVR-XMN MF
YVR-MEX AM
YVR-DFW AC
Some rumoured routes for 2017:
YVR-HKG HX
YVR-IST TK
YVR-FRA AC
YVR-MAN AC
nname wrote:CPA62 wrote:YVR seem to be having a good year. year to August 31 passenger numbers up 10.1% overall with European passengers numbers up 15% and Asia Pacific up 13.9% and Mexico south America up 25%
some new routes started and announced in 2016:
YVR-BNE AC
YVR-NGO AC
YVR-TPE AC
YVR-DEL AC
YVR-XMN MF
YVR-MEX AM
YVR-DFW AC
Some rumoured routes for 2017:
YVR-HKG HX
YVR-IST TK
YVR-FRA AC
YVR-MAN AC
Missed a few from China:
Announced:
YVR-TAO-HGH JD
YVR-CGO-CTU 3U
Rumoured for 2017:
YVR-NKG-KMG MU
MEX-YVR-CAN CZ
YVR-TSN-CKG GS
YVR-TSN HU
^ at most only one of the TSN route will commence; most route will require reduced frequency of existing China-Canada service due to bilateral restriction.