PanzerPowner
Topic Author
Posts: 487
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Why no US Legacy Carrier Nonstop Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:05 pm

The only Legacy Carriers i notice is a flight with Delta from RJAA and United from Guam and Koror. The U.S is filled with Filipino traffic on the west coast, and i am sure at least some Filipinos are getting tired of the A343.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
COSPN
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:16 pm

Low yield VFR. Well served by United PAL and Delta and about every other Asian carrier
 
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Polot
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:16 pm

The US is filled with very low yielding Filipino traffic.

The US3 are content with leaving that traffic to PR.
 
indcwby
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:06 pm

PanzerPowner wrote:
The only Legacy Carriers i notice is a flight with Delta from RJAA and United from Guam and Koror. The U.S is filled with Filipino traffic on the west coast, and i am sure at least some Filipinos are getting tired of the A343.


I'd be happy to fly on the A343 or any of the A340s......
A319, A320, A330, A340, B717, B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, CRJ7, DC10, MD88, MD11, E145, E175
"Always remember that you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands."
 
travelin man
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:20 pm

indcwby wrote:
PanzerPowner wrote:
The only Legacy Carriers i notice is a flight with Delta from RJAA and United from Guam and Koror. The U.S is filled with Filipino traffic on the west coast, and i am sure at least some Filipinos are getting tired of the A343.


I'd be happy to fly on the A343 or any of the A340s......


PR is using the 77W on most US flights anyway, I believe.
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:06 pm

I'll take an A340 over a B777 any day and every day of the week! Calm and quiet versus permanent excitement and excessive noise! and that's not just the Filipinas' conversations!)

Yup, as said above, US airlines don't want the route (in other words, they cant compete with other airlines that do want the route)
 
continental004
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:26 pm

MNL is too low-yiedling. PR and the other Asian airlines do the job well. Filipinos are a price-sensitive market.
 
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enilria
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:30 pm

Polot wrote:
The US is filled with very low yielding Filipino traffic.

The US3 are content with leaving that traffic to PR.

It's that exact same strategy regarding India that resulted in creating the ME3 that the US3 now says stole the India traffic from them. Oh, the irony...
 
UnitedTristar
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:34 pm

Most people I know going to MNL from the USA go via HKG. It's a quick and cheap flight from HKG to MNL. Although with the low costs of a 787 or A350 we might see a carrier or two try a nonstop from LAX or SFO

-m
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:39 pm

Asks why no American legacy carrier service to Manila...

...proceeds to identify two (out of three) American legacy carriers with service to Manila.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:45 pm

Even Hawaiian tried it and pulled out.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
QANTAS747-438
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:47 pm

Hawaiian also flew HNL-MNL for a few years but was continuously getting undercut on price by PR. They had full flights but were losing money. Now it's just PR on the route.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:17 pm

travelin man wrote:
PR is using the 77W on most US flights anyway, I believe.

Especially when this arrives by the end of this month, and another by December.....

Image


The ex-IB A340s will then be relegated to flying secondary routes (i.e. CEB-LAX, HNL-MNL) and pinch hitting around the region, until their phase-out upon the A359's first delivery in 2018 and deployment on MNL-JFK. Later A359 deliveries would be assigned to LHR (although the 77W could be sent there instead for the holidays) and new European destinations.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
airzona11
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:25 pm

Manila is also very far, that is a lot of airplane to dedicate. You can get some very low fares relative to other destinations, PR seems to undercut most carriers.

If the develops and some business connections materialize, A350/787 might open it up down the road.
 
PanzerPowner
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:19 pm

Eh i just felt a bit tired knowing both of my flights on PR from LAX-MNL and CEB-LAX with an A343 with that blocky tv in the ceiling.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
TW870
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:24 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Manila is also very far, that is a lot of airplane to dedicate.


Absolutely. For DL, for example, SEA-MNL would be 100nm further than SEA-HKG, which means you need more high fares to cover the cost. There isn't a whole lot of high yield banking traffic to cities like FCO or AGP or LIM either, but you burn way less aircraft and crew time - and fuel - on them, so all the markets I just named work well, where as MNL non-stops so far have not.
 
Jetstar315
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:47 pm

Well the way the Philippines President is speaking to/about President Obama lately, it may be some time (read never!) before a US legacy carrier starts regular service to Manila.

Don't hold your breath waiting!!
 
Varsity1
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:56 pm

sassiciai wrote:
I'll take an A340 over a B777 any day and every day of the week! Calm and quiet versus permanent excitement and excessive noise! and that's not just the Filipinas' conversations!)

Yup, as said above, US airlines don't want the route (in other words, they cant compete with other airlines that do want the route)



They can compete just fine. They do not want a route with trash yields however. Unlike the majority of airlines in the world, the US3 are profitable and focused on remaining profitable.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Flighty
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:13 am

I think that the importance of Jakarta and Manila will keep growing. Both are capitals of huge, democratic developing countries friendly to the US. Philippines has 100 million people and Indonesia, 250 million people. Each country economy is growing around 5-6% per year, very healthy growth indeed. Per capita income is around $4,000 in each. Philippines has more poverty than Indonesia.

Both countries are emerging allies and trading partners with the US. They will need service. It will come, in time.
 
NichCage
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:03 am

For anybody who doesn't know, there are some US destinations that are in demand from Manila. For example, Seattle, Chicago, and New York are unserved from Manila. Phillipine Airlines has plans to make JFK direct from MNL with the A380, and I also read somewhere they plan on launching ORD as well perhaps.
 
gweilo88
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:45 am

My wife is filipina. I can't speak for all travelers in Philippines, but just from personal experience I help a lot of her friends book their tickets between Philippines and USA, Canada or UK as a favor since I know more about flights and routings than their other friends. And the ones I don't help book, I still always try to find out what routing they got just for my information.

Usually they want to book on CX or BA to UK. AC to Canada. UA/DL/NH or KE/OZ to USA. All economy class. They do not consider flights from MNL directly to their destinations, even if they live in MNL. They always want to come to Hong Kong to transfer or stay a day or 2 and then proceed to their destination, even if means they pay 30% to 50% more. Even double.

Especially the people who live in different cities than Manila. They prefer to fly directly to Hong Kong from CRK or CEB then transfer to their final destination on one of the above carriers. Nobody even wants to hear about what are their options out of MNL even if I can find a ticket for half the price. Even the people who do live in Manila, they will, for example, fly MNL-HKG-YVR with HKG-YVR on AC instead of MNL-YVR on PR even if the price is double. So you can imagine how cheap the price must be ex-MNL to compete with that mentality.

I have never met 1 person yet who took PR long haul to UK, Canada or USA. Not 1 person. Obviously there must be some people taking PR longhaul, or any longhoul out of MNL, but not people who are willing to pay higher than the dirt cheap fares.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:08 am

NichCage wrote:
Phillipine Airlines has plans to make JFK direct from MNL with the A380

Knew their Chairman expressed interest in the A380 before but I was not aware they have ordered the Whale :D .....

Image


Although it might help MNL with its airspace congestion woes, the Whale would also exacerbate NAIA's infrastructure problems :!:


gweilo88 wrote:
Obviously there must be some people taking PR longhaul, or any longhoul out of MNL, but not people who are willing to pay higher than the dirt cheap fares.

This goes against the general sentiment here that most people will connect once or twice on other carriers so long as those are cheaper than PR. And PR's fares are usually higher.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PanzerPowner
Topic Author
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:19 am

I flew MNL-LAX and CEB-LAX cause of the 75TH Anniversary Sale, along with flights to Davao.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
hayzel777
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:20 am

Who wants to serve a destination that has trash yields? Let the Asian carriers serve it. They seem to be doing fine on the routes.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:31 am

hOMSaR wrote:
Asks why no American legacy carrier service to Manila...
...proceeds to identify two (out of three) American legacy carriers with service to Manila.

Beat me to it. Why's this thread still even open?



NichCage wrote:
Phillipine Airlines has plans to make JFK direct from MNL with the A380

How do they plan to do that, when they 1) haven't ordered/leased any and 2) ordered A350s specifically for a US nonstop.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
PanzerPowner
Topic Author
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:54 am

The reason i mentioned DAL and United is well, they both may operate services but nothing to Mainland USA one to Tokyo for Feeder Services, also to dump their B744 and one just because Guam and American island claims.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
cityairline
Posts: 668
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:13 am

http://www.local1781.org/index.php/2015 ... ilippines/

Very interesting article from last year regarding MNL-SFO "always beeing on the drawing board" for UA. I'm not saying it's going to happen anytime soon, but don't say that "they are not even interested!" I think the airlines know better about demand, profitability and cost structure than any one here.
Also, that the airline closely follows the GDP growth of the market and wants to add capacity as the economy grows.

I'm not going to argue about MNL being low yield, because that's a fact. But what I do think is sad, and always (always!) have to bring up as no one ever mentions it, is the growth of the Philippine economy.
Whenever there's a thread on new nonstops to Indonesia or Vietnam, people go on about the growth. I find this this very interesting as the Philippine economy has been the fastest growing one during the five last years (except 2015). The Philippine GDP per capita is double the size than in Vietnam for example. And for the first half 2016, the economy even grew faster than China at 7%.

So, we all know the Philippines is low yield. We've been bashing it for the last ten years since I've become a member, and the last 24 posts of this thread.
Why not discuss the potential and the extremly bright future that the country has instead.
As far as I know, the last few years MNL hasn't been loosing airlines, but rather gained several new ones (TK, WY, MU, NH) and capacity beeing increased (CX, TG, QF, EK, EY, QR).

And just like CGK is extremly important with SQ, MNL is extremly important with CX. I know it's a short flight and easy to make profitable, but CX would not serve MNL with SEVEN daily widebodies if there was nothing to pick up. MNL was also their first A350 destination, could have been TPE/BKK/SIN instead for prestige, but they chose MNL.

So, I will agree with all of you that as of now, and for another few years to come, no new US airlines will enter the MNL market. But just wait, the Philippines is rising and we are just seeing the beginning of it...
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
ahj2000
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Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:02 pm

Does anyone codeshare on PALs directs to the Philippines? It seems like it would be a good way to provide nonstop service without actually serving the Philippines
-Andrés Juánez
 
Freshside3
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Re: Why no American Legacy Carrier Service to Manila?

Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:12 pm

COSPN wrote:
Low yield VFR. Well served by United PAL and Delta and about every other Asian carrier

True for the rest. But definitely not well-served by UA........the MNL trip goes from GUM, but there's no mainland USA to GUM, either. So, if using all UA metal, you have to go via HNL -and- GUM. Combinations of UA and partners, yes, but DL at least has their own one-stop, which doesn't exist on UA.
 
Viscount724
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Re:

Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:00 am

ahj2000 wrote:
Does anyone codeshare on PALs directs to the Philippines? It seems like it would be a good way to provide nonstop service without actually serving the Philippines


PR has enough demand to fill their flights without diluting their revenue by codesharing.

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