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WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:23 am
by Legend757
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 43839.html

Both begin March 9, 2017. WN begins SLC-SJC service this Nov as well (already announced). Strengthening California is cited as the reason, but still some decent adds for WN in SLC. SJC and SMF always seemed like holes in their network to me. BUR is somewhat of a surprise. B6 tried BUR for a very short time in 2007 I believe. It will be interesting to see how DL responds. Right now, they only have 3 RJ flights per day to BUR.

SMF- 1X Daily
BUR- 2X Daily
SJC- 2X Daily

A third daily HOU-MEX will also be added effective Jan 5, 2017

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:51 am
by IPFreely
Legend757 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how DL responds. Right now, they only have 3 RJ flights per day to BUR.


Delta Connection's poor performance is a real soft target. WN should quickly be dominating on SLC-BUR. Delta will basically have two choices: switch to mainline service or drop this route completely.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:59 am
by alasizon
IPFreely wrote:
Legend757 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how DL responds. Right now, they only have 3 RJ flights per day to BUR.


Delta Connection's poor performance is a real soft target. WN should quickly be dominating on SLC-BUR. Delta will basically have two choices: switch to mainline service or drop this route completely.


I think both can co-exist on the route particularly if DL can upguage to 175s. Maybe DL would drop a frequency but should work out for the market. DL performance isn't terrible on this route and there is still a good market for connections.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:44 am
by ericm2031
I thought MEX was off the table until the new airport due to slot constraints? And that's a pretty close-in add.

And lots of SMF adds lately. BWI, DAL, BOI, and now SLC. I thought we'd see HOU next..but this could also be setting up SMF to serve as another international city for WN. Logistically, it's probably the easiest for them to add some international flights from as they have lots of room to do it.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:32 am
by SurfandSnow
Legend757 wrote:
Both begin March 9, 2017. Strengthening California is cited as the reason, but still some decent adds for WN in SLC.


Smells like preemptive strikes against AS to me. AS has not only demonstrated a willingness to serve Californian p2p routes from SLC but also a rather uncanny ability to hold their own against DL on them. Indeed, all 4 routes they added in this realm (SLC-LAX/SAN/SFO/SJC) are still running strong more than 2 years later. Recent AS/OO E-175 route additions from BUR and SMF indicate AS's interest in regional expansion from these markets as well...

Legend757 wrote:
SJC and SMF always seemed like holes in their network to me.


They did? SAN always struck me as the main Californian "hole", and I was shocked to see additions like MCI and SEA from SNA rather than SLC (and for that matter, RNO). Then again, I suppose LAS is a perfectly logical connection point between SLC and Southern California, so it is probably more important to offer nonstop service between SLC and Northern California markets where connections require much more of a detour. I also wonder about the possibility of nonstop service between SLC and strongholds like ATL, AUS, BNA, FLL, MCI, MCO, MKE, STL and/or TPA - especially now that there would be more feed from the West Coast.

Legend757 wrote:
BUR is somewhat of a surprise. B6 tried BUR for a very short time in 2007 I believe. It will be interesting to see how DL responds. Right now, they only have 3 RJ flights per day to BUR.


WN was able to take BUR for granted when all of their competitors were busy cutting routes, slashing capacity, or completely pulling out of the airport. However, times have changed, and WN now has to defend its turf. AS has already challenged WN on one of its monopoly trunk routes (SJC), and they may very well try to break WN's monopoly on OAK/SMF-BUR too. I bet AS is even considering niche route opportunities like BUR-RNO/STS. Other airlines are likely taking greater interest in the BUR market as well. AA may be considering a resumption of DFW-BUR (this is probably why WN felt the need to add DAL-BUR - even after they maxed out their gate capacity at DAL), and an appropriate yet unsurprising DL response could be LAS-BUR. If rumors start swirling about, say, a UA ORD-BUR service (unlikely, but you never know), WN might even feel compelled to add nonstop service to MDW.

Legend757 wrote:
A third daily HOU-MEX will also be added effective Jan 5, 2017


Where did they get this MEX slot from? Are they cutting SNA-MEX?

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:49 am
by alggag
SurfandSnow wrote:
Where did they get this MEX slot from? Are they cutting SNA-MEX?


Looks like SNA-MEX ends the day before meaning all WN flights to MEX will be from HOU.

I think maybe the SNA slot reductions forced their hand to consolidate MEX service at HOU.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:36 am
by Goldenshield
IPFreely wrote:
Legend757 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how DL responds. Right now, they only have 3 RJ flights per day to BUR.


Delta Connection's poor performance is a real soft target. WN should quickly be dominating on SLC-BUR. Delta will basically have two choices: switch to mainline service or drop this route completely.


Except, for a hub, SLC is nearly always the highest ranking airport for on-time performance considering it's an hub. Your argument has no merit, and is solely biased on your dislike of regional carriers.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:45 pm
by wnflyguy
alggag wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Where did they get this MEX slot from? Are they cutting SNA-MEX?


Looks like SNA-MEX ends the day before meaning all WN flights to MEX will be from HOU.

I think maybe the SNA slot reductions forced their hand to consolidate MEX service at HOU.


This I think was a political move by WN to show displeasure from SNA cutting one million seats from them.
Freed up aircraft opened up new SLC service.
So SNA pax can still connect to MEX via HOU.
Looks like SNA also lost one Daily round trip to SMF,SFO,LAS,PHX,DEN and OAK.
SNA loss is SLC and HOU gain.

Other news CUBA service to VRU and HAV now out for sale!

Flyguy

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:23 pm
by redzeppelin
Time for a quick review of the SLC-California market:
Destinations served from from SLC, current or announced:
LAX: DL, UA, AA, AS, WN
SFO: DL, AS, UA
SJC: DL, AS, WN
SMF: DL, WN
BUR: DL, WN
SAN: DL, AS
OAK: DL, WN
LGB: DL, B6
SNA: DL
ONT: DL
FAT: DL
PSP: DL

The California market is critical to DL's hub in SLC, but they have plenty of competition there. I'm a bit surprised that there is no competition at SNA, but the slot controls certainly affect each airline's priorities there.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:28 pm
by n471wn
Great news on SLC but cannot figure out why they let AS run them off the SLC-PDX route and they need to get this back

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:33 pm
by ericm2031
Volaris also is adding IAH-MEX, so the extra flight could be to compete more against that.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:50 pm
by MIflyer12
n471wn wrote:
Great news on SLC but cannot figure out why they let AS run them off the SLC-PDX route and they need to get this back


SLC-PDX? Flightstats shows 6 Delta mainline and 2 AS today.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:00 pm
by Shields
Does anyone think this is a response to Delta's buildup at LAS (adding routes to SJC, SNA, and SAN)?

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:14 pm
by SLCUT2777
I agree WN needs to get back on SLC-PDX, SLC-SEA as well as SLC-SAN & SLC-SNA. Surprised WN hasn't tried the alternate airport approach for the Wasatch Front with PVU.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:52 pm
by oosnowrat
IPFreely wrote:
Legend757 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how DL responds. Right now, they only have 3 RJ flights per day to BUR.


Delta Connection's poor performance is a real soft target. WN should quickly be dominating on SLC-BUR. Delta will basically have two choices: switch to mainline service or drop this route completely.


Quick search at Delta.com shows flights in and out of BUR have on time numbers of 93-100%. OO is one of the better-performing DCI carriers.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:49 pm
by slcdeltarumd11
a little bit of the dartboard routes here? I guess to only compete against Delta is kind of attractive, not too long plenty of people headed between the metro areas. Excellent news for customers as average fares will drop.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:55 pm
by BoeingGuy
redzeppelin wrote:
Time for a quick review of the SLC-California market:
Destinations served from from SLC, current or announced:
LAX: DL, UA, AA, AS, WN
SFO: DL, AS, UA
SJC: DL, AS, WN
SMF: DL, WN
BUR: DL, WN
SAN: DL, AS
OAK: DL, WN
LGB: DL, B6
SNA: DL
ONT: DL
FAT: DL
PSP: DL

The California market is critical to DL's hub in SLC, but they have plenty of competition there. I'm a bit surprised that there is no competition at SNA, but the slot controls certainly affect each airline's priorities there.


I'm surprised DL can't also manage at least one flight a day to SBA, BFL, MRY. SBP and maybe even ACV or STS.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:22 pm
by nikeson13
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
a little bit of the dartboard routes here? I guess to only compete against Delta is kind of attractive, not too long plenty of people headed between the metro areas. Excellent news for customers as average fares will drop.

I can't speak for BUR, but for SMF this makes a ton of sense to grow out of a market they're already dominating. 1-2x a year I fly to SLC from SMF or OAK, and the OAK-SMF flights on DL and WN are almost always full with reasonably(but somewhat high) fares, and the SMF-SLC on DL is always booked with high fares. Not surprised to see the addition from WN, whom has over 50% of the marketshare at SMF.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:07 pm
by SurfandSnow
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised DL can't also manage at least one flight a day to SBA, BFL, MRY. SBP and maybe even ACV or STS.


DL tried all of these markets from SLC in the mid-2000s (except STS, where the runway was too short) without success. SLC-MMH might be something to consider, though.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:01 pm
by LAXintl
wnflyguy wrote:
This I think was a political move by WN to show displeasure from SNA cutting one million seats from them.


Nonsense. Flight was simply a low on the profitability scale.

Also the incentive money for the route expired earlier in the year.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:48 pm
by BoeingGuy
LAXintl wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
This I think was a political move by WN to show displeasure from SNA cutting one million seats from them.


Nonsense. Flight was simply a low on the profitability scale.

Also the incentive money for the route expired earlier in the year.


Yeah, I didn't think that well run for-profit airlines cut profitable routes just to get political revenge on an airport.

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:27 pm
by 32andBelow
BoeingGuy wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
This I think was a political move by WN to show displeasure from SNA cutting one million seats from them.


Nonsense. Flight was simply a low on the profitability scale.

Also the incentive money for the route expired earlier in the year.


Yeah, I didn't think that well run for-profit airlines cut profitable routes just to get political revenge on an airport.

You clearly haven't met aviation people

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:13 am
by SANFan
I too am surprised to see these adds from SLC without SAN-SLC being started. The biggest, closest hole in SAN's WN route map is indeed SLC.

I figured the reason WN hasn't added the route was because DL and AS already served it, but now that SJC -- also already served by DL and AS -- is to be added, I'm at a loss to explain why SAN-SLC remains off the map. I believe WN is fairly gate constrained in Utah, as is AS, but since they are adding flights from there, that shouldn't be a valid reason.

I do agree with those supposing these adds by WN might very well be preemptive strikes against AS, who probably has the routes somewhere on its list of California-adds at some point in the future - assuming they get some more gate space at SLC.

bb

Re: WN adds SLC-SMF/BUR

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:23 pm
by ericm2031
SurfandSnow wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised DL can't also manage at least one flight a day to SBA, BFL, MRY. SBP and maybe even ACV or STS.


DL tried all of these markets from SLC in the mid-2000s (except STS, where the runway was too short) without success. SLC-MMH might be something to consider, though.


I think they should reconsider some of these routes. It's definitely a much different environment from the early 2000's. Especially with these routes being high fare markets with little to no LCC or ULCC competition. UA, AA, and AS are definitely dominating the smaller CA communities