New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

777ER · Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:26 am

Link to part #182 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1343185&start=200

777ER · Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:31 am

PA515 wrote:
After ZK-EAB's two failed attempts at AKL-SYD yesterday it had a 35 min test flight AKL-AKL 1133-1208 NZDT, up to 25,000 ft over Great Barrier Island. It departed for SYD at 1309 NZDT and is now out of FR24 MLAT3 range.

There's a few photos of ZK-EAP at SYD yesterday at http://yssyforum.net/board/showthread.php?t=11253

PA515

Saw the two aircraft departing AKL yesterday. Sad sight seeing the Koru partly painted over but nice seeing the newest 789 parked at ANZES

zkojq · Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:38 am

"Air New Zealand Airbus A321neo: business class is 'very unlikely'

Air New Zealand has all but ruled out business class on its forthcoming Airbus A321neo fleet, opting instead for an all-economy layout.

The Kiwi carrier had previously flirted with fitting a small business class cabin to the pointy end of the new single-aisle jets to help it better compete against Qantas, which offers business class on all trans-Tasman flights.

However, with the delivery of the first A321neo now just one year away, Air New Zealand says "it's very unlikely the A321neo will have business class", the airline's Chief Revenue Officer Cam Wallace tells Australian Business Traveller.

"More and more the trans-Tasman market is being served by wide-body jets, and as we get more wide-bodies with business and premium seating, my instinct is that we will serve the business market with those wide-bodies," Wallace predicts.

"My predict" - put the A321's on the key domestic routes. AKL-WLG-CHC etc. solves the problem of no Business class .

according to another source - NZ is buying 5 A321neos and 8 A320neos.?

Anyone else get the feeling that they're likely to be configured with 240 seats? :lol:

zkeoj · Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:26 am

Hi Guys

jusy posted this before the previous thread was closed, so just in case, here it is again:

Does anybody know what (ex-)registration the Mil-Mi 8 at Huka Falls was?

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71539176

Cheers
micha

aerorobnz · Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:23 am

If all Y then I think they will be similar to LATAM 321s which have Y220

zkeoj wrote:
Hi Guys

jusy posted this before the previous thread was closed, so just in case, here it is again:

Does anybody know what (ex-)registration the Mil-Mi 8 at Huka Falls was?

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71539176

Cheers
micha

YS-1006P

zkeoj · Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:27 am

zkeoj wrote:
Hi Guys

jusy posted this before the previous thread was closed, so just in case, here it is again:

Does anybody know what (ex-)registration the Mil-Mi 8 at Huka Falls was?

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71539176

Cheers
micha

YS-1006P[/quote]

I am always amazed how you guys know - thanks heaps, aerorob :-)

aerohottie · Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:45 pm

Part #182 is now locked...

Jetstar315 · Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:07 am

In reply to zkojq - not a hope! even the Jetstar A321s are configured with only 220 seats at 29 in pitch according to seat guru!!

PA515 · Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:33 am

Another two ex Air NZ 1900Ds left New Zealand today.

ZK-EAG departed AKL at 0932 NZDT for NLK, SYD and BWU.
ZK-EAE departed AKL at 0935 NZDT for NLK, SYD and BWU.

Just ZK-EAH and ZK-EAN left now.

Hard to tell if EAP, EAB, EAG and EAE have been sold or are being stored in Australia. Eagle Air is still showing as the registered owner, and from memory all the other 1900Ds had the change of ownership registered before they left New Zealand.

PA515

LamboAston · Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:39 am

Jetstar315 wrote:
In reply to zkojq - not a hope! even the Jetstar A321s are configured with only 220 seats at 29 in pitch according to seat guru!!

Look at LATAM's ones on there as well, same seat count, more pitch.

NZ321 · Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:49 am

Does anybody have the CI schedule for AKL and CHC for this summer? Kind of hard to find online.

ZKOJH · Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:07 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Does anybody have the CI schedule for AKL and CHC for this summer? Kind of hard to find online.

Take a look at https://www.china-airlines.com/cn/en/fl ... /timetable you then can download a "PDF" file with all the information on.

https://www.china-airlines.com/cn/en/Im ... 9-5191.pdf Page 11-20 is for Canada/Australia and New Zealand.

AKL shows up in the list, but nothing on CHC.

hope this helps.

NPL8800 · Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:10 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Does anybody have the CI schedule for AKL and CHC for this summer? Kind of hard to find online.

CHC will be operating 6 weekly (3 via SYD, 3 via MEL) over the summer
AKL is showing 8 weekly (4 via SYD, 4 via BNE)

CI have certainly been a lot quieter regarding CHC operations this year compared to the past

PA515 · Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:17 pm

http://nyc787.blogspot.com is reporting an imminent Air NZ 787 order. Apparently Luxon was in Everett last week and returned to AKL on the ZK-NZK delivery flight.

PA515

sunrisevalley · Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:37 pm

so could this mean firming the three options and adding some more? Perhaps bringing forward the deliveries to three each in 2017 and 2018?

aerohottie · Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:41 pm

Announcement of premium configured 787-9, and possibly a 787-10 order...

PA515 · Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:17 am

sunrisevalley wrote:
so could this mean firming the three options and adding some more? Perhaps bringing forward the deliveries to three each in 2017 and 2018?

Air NZ still had six 787-9 options after the last order. The last two ordered are due for delivery in Nov 2017 and Oct? 2018.

http://atwonline.com/airframes/air-new- ... irm-orders

PA515

LamboAston · Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:30 am

ZC003 is for an unidentified customer with the same engines that NZ have.

DougS · Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:06 am

The 321s will have fewer than 220. Think of a layout like the current aircraft with space plus at the front and extrapolate that to the 321 and see how many seats you come up with.

PA515 · Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:24 am

According to 'haggis73' in the last thread the Air Lease Corp's G6 N1AL was in AKL for 24 hrs from the morning of Wed 12 Oct until 0830 Thu 13 Oct. It would have been possible for Luxon to meet with the ALC people during Wed, then take NZ8 to SFO or NZ24 to YVR Wed night and be in Everett by the afternoon of the next day, also Wed 12 Oct. Enough time for Luxon to sign off an order and depart on ZK-NZK at 2007PDT on Wed 12 Oct.

If ALC is involved in an Air NZ 789 order that would mean a sale and leaseback deal. Air NZ purchases the aircraft at the price fixed when the options were taken out. Air NZ then sells to ALC at a price closer to market value, and Air NZ banks the difference.

PA515

aerorobnz · Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:48 am

DougS wrote:
The 321s will have fewer than 220. Think of a layout like the current aircraft with space plus at the front and extrapolate that to the 321 and see how many seats you come up with.

With a little bit of rough mathematics and some guestimation based on existing configurations I got the following with my working below.
If you lose 2 row each side (using 31" as base pitch) that's up to 15 rows with 35" like domestic rows 1-9DEF seats and a spare 2" for the bulkhead for a total of 208Y.

The tricky thing to work out is exit row configuration. That could have plus or minus a few seats. depending on whether they give the exit row more legroom or add a row of similar to LA 321s /NZ733s (row 11BCDE)

sunrisevalley · Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:13 pm

[quote="PA515"Enough time for Luxon to sign off an order and depart on ZK-NZK at 2007PDT on Wed 12 Oct.]

NZ has done past deals with Boeing at a time when the new aircraft market was slow for said to be particularly sharp pricing. Based on this I wonder if there is a number of aircraft involved including the 778 or 779 and perhaps some exchangeable 77W's for the 778 or 779.

ZKOJH · Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:36 pm

Air New Zealand flight turned back after runway lights go out

A flight from Auckland to Tonga was turned back because runway lights went out at the island nation's airport.

The Air New Zealand Airbus A320 departed just after 5pm yesterday and was en-route to Fua'amotu International Airport when the crew was told the runway lighting was not operating.

The flight, with 117 passengers on board, was diverted to Fiji's Nadi International Airport for refuelling and then returned to Auckland, landing about 1.10am this morning, a spokeswoman said.

Air New Zealand is operating an additional return service between Auckland and Tonga today during daylight hours in order to accommodate impacted customers, she said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11731901

aerorobnz · Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:51 am

The day before two flights one NZ,one VA diverted to APW for the same reason.

ZKOJH · Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:04 am

"Auckland Airport squeeze means more passengers on buses"

Auckland Airport warns passengers will have to get used to more busing from planes to terminals as the number of new services soars.

A shareholder at the company's annual meeting today said using buses to get passengers to the terminal was "Mickey Mouse" and "Third World" for tourists.

"The airport is there to service passengers not to have a multi-million dollar terminal with flash shops inside," he said.

However, the company's chief executive Adrian Littlewood said the percentage of passengers put on buses was low by international standards. Overseas airports used buses for up to half their passengers, while at Auckland they were used in about 5 per cent of the cases.

Previously this has been around 2 per cent.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11732767

Looks like it won't change anytime soon then!

Zkpilot · Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:05 am

Article in the NZHerald today about how AKL is using buses more and more for flights rather than air bridges. But all good they're spending millions on growing the terminal (allowing more shops naturally). Is a joke! They try to excuse it by comparing themselves to other airports that use buses. Only issue with that of course is that those airports are typically a lot larger/busier/don't have enough room for more gates etc. AKL has plenty of space and isn't that big of an airport. Simply comes down to AIAL being a bunch of short-sighted penny pinching tightasses rather than actually investing for growth.

Edit: ZKOJH beat me to it by a minute.

zkojq · Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:31 am

I'm not sure what was more pathetic; their excuse for the lack of gates or the excuse for the lack of free wifi. They really should have just admitted that they're squeezing every last cent out of their users. The shareholders would probably be warmly receptive of that.

NPL8800 · Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:53 am

I also find it amusing that in 2015 the airport board visited Changi Airport to "learn from the best" yet little appears to have happened as a result of that....Changi is so successful because there is a realisation by their management that their airport can easily be bypassed in favor of others, and as a result they listen to what their passengers and other stake holders want and invest in their infrastructure accordingly to make a facility that passengers and airlines want to serve and stop over at. Changi has the vision to look beyond 1-2 years into the future, which is something that so many airports around the world seem to struggle with

NZ321 · Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:10 am

AKL airport is a constant disgrace. One of the worst. Bags take ages. Domestic is a joke and priority bags mean nothing. I drove around the domestic park for 25 mins after having booked a park and nearly missed my flight because it was oversold. Arrived from Asia 10 days ago and had the bus treatment. It wasn't horrendous but the bags took 30 mins to get the first bags on the belt and the first 3 auto passport stations I went to weren't working. On the way out, at 1130 pm there were no currency change kiosks staffed. And duty free... forget it. You'll get it cheaper in town. And this is our primary tourist entry point. It's completely laughable and it's all about shareholder return and there's no competition / alternative. We are completely screwed.

ZK-NBT · Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:31 am

Looks like ZK-OKN 77W to IAH today, no idea why but I didn't notice either NZ6/8 operating.

Also MEL on 21/10 got 3 77W OKO x2 NZ123 and I then a very delayed NZ125 plus OKM on NZ127. It is common for those 3 to be 777's or 787's just only 1 77W. Low season and several 772's to SFO make this possible.

LamboAston · Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:56 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Looks like ZK-OKN 77W to IAH today, no idea why but I didn't notice either NZ6/8 operating.

Also MEL on 21/10 got 3 77W OKO x2 NZ123 and I then a very delayed NZ125 plus OKM on NZ127. It is common for those 3 to be 777's or 787's just only 1 77W. Low season and several 772's to SFO make this possible.

NZ6 (OKR) and 8 (OKQ) are both on 77Ws tonight according to FR24

taieridrome · Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:22 am

I notice that over the last couple of days an NZ 787-9 has been going between ROK and SIN and back again. Latest flight is NZ1935 currently over the Northern Territory heading for ROK. Anyone know why these flights are happening?

ZKSUJ · Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:34 am

[img]t[/img]

taieridrome wrote:
I notice that over the last couple of days an NZ 787-9 has been going between ROK and SIN and back again. Latest flight is NZ1935 currently over the Northern Territory heading for ROK. Anyone know why these flights are happening?

ROK-SIN in the past has been a destination for the 744 as military charters for the Singapore Armed Forces. I would assume (guessing here) it would be for that...

qf789 · Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:27 am

taieridrome wrote:
I notice that over the last couple of days an NZ 787-9 has been going between ROK and SIN and back again. Latest flight is NZ1935 currently over the Northern Territory heading for ROK. Anyone know why these flights are happening?

Its for military charters as reported by the nzsource

http://www.thenzsource.com/air-new-zeal ... -charters/

zkeoj · Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:59 pm

I am on NZ103 tomorrow morning, and that one changed from 789 to 77W as well...

LamboAston · Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:53 pm

zkeoj wrote:
I am on NZ103 tomorrow morning, and that one changed from 789 to 77W as well...

At least it didn't get changed to a 763

zkncj · Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:17 am

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/john-keys-plane-breaks-down-en-route-to-india-2016102413

Maybe the NZ Government should follow suit and just charter planes from NZ when needed? Yet again the 752 breakdown this time in Townsvile.

aerohottie · Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:22 pm

Plenty of cheap 777's, A330's and A345's on the market at the moment

LamboAston · Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:58 pm

aerohottie wrote:
Plenty of cheap 777's, A330's and A345's on the market at the moment

The 777s are (mostly) older than NZ want, and they don't want to add types to their fleet, so unlikely for NZ to buy them.

ZK-NBT · Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:40 pm

LamboAston wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
Plenty of cheap 777's, A330's and A345's on the market at the moment

The 777s are (mostly) older than NZ want, and they don't want to add types to their fleet, so unlikely for NZ to buy them.

He is talking about an aircraft the government could use, potentially to replace the 757's. Not sure they will do it now?

Of course NZ don't want A330's or A340's.

Zkpilot · Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:42 am

zkncj wrote:
http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/john-keys-plane-breaks-down-en-route-to-india-2016102413

Maybe the NZ Government should follow suit and just charter planes from NZ when needed? Yet again the 752 breakdown this time in Townsvile.

Yes from a purely cost point of view chartering NZ would make more sense.
However from a strategic point of view, the airforce needs these aircraft. You can't just have one as typically one is out for maintenance/already being used etc. The problem with two for a small Air Force is that they don't get enough use most of the time. This is where VIP flights help to keep them being used.
A compromise would be that for destinations that have adequate NZ service then that should be the choice (i.e. Flying to USA/Australia). For India the Air Force is probably the right choice based on the above.

What is quite surprising however is the short range of the 757. I would have thought with a light payload it would have been capable of flying straight to SIN/DRW then direct to India from there rather than the planned OZ+Indonesia stops enroute.

Jetstar315 · Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:24 am

…mmmmm not a good idea to charter from NZ - they don't have aircraft just sitting round waiting to be chartered by the RNZAF. The next thing we'd have would be NZ commercial flights being cancelled at short notice because the airforce suddenly wants a jet for the day!! The government should buy a few A320 neos for the airforce and at least they'd have access to first class engineering services from NZ.

cchan · Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:15 am

Was at AKL earlier today, noticed CX198 is delayed till 0900 26/10 but CX197 arrived on time. Any idea why the delay?

aerohottie · Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:18 am

Jetstar315 wrote:
…mmmmm not a good idea to charter from NZ - they don't have aircraft just sitting round waiting to be chartered by the RNZAF. The next thing we'd have would be NZ commercial flights being cancelled at short notice because the airforce suddenly wants a jet for the day!! The government should buy a few A320 neos for the airforce and at least they'd have access to first class engineering services from NZ.

Or how about buy 2 x 789's, have one on "stand-by" with the other in the active NZ schedule and rotate the aircraft around for maintenance and share the cost of the "second" 789 with NZ???
Would keep the aircraft active, and available... and reduce capex contribution and opex...
Just a thought...

ZK-NBT · Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:22 am

cchan wrote:
Was at AKL earlier today, noticed CX198 is delayed till 0900 26/10 but CX197 arrived on time. Any idea why the delay?

No idea but the A340's have been prone to delays, sad to see them go this week but nice to have the A350.

aerohottie wrote:
Jetstar315 wrote:
…mmmmm not a good idea to charter from NZ - they don't have aircraft just sitting round waiting to be chartered by the RNZAF. The next thing we'd have would be NZ commercial flights being cancelled at short notice because the airforce suddenly wants a jet for the day!! The government should buy a few A320 neos for the airforce and at least they'd have access to first class engineering services from NZ.

Or how about buy 2 x 789's, have one on "stand-by" with the other in the active NZ schedule and rotate the aircraft around for maintenance and share the cost of the "second" 789 with NZ???
Would keep the aircraft active, and available... and reduce capex contribution and opex...
Just a thought...

Sounds expensive. Pretty sure they will get something second hand for government use unless they go smaller like A320.

77west · Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:44 am

I would suggest 2-3 A320ACJ (Airbus Corporate Jet) with IAE motors. Could outsource all maintenance to NZ and have a spares pool more readily available than for the old 757's. (As cool as the 75's are). Or maybe a second hand RR 777-200ER + A320 ?

Planesmart · Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:59 am

Many decades ago (late 80's), I was involved in putting together a lease package for all the different jet trainer brands, including the eventual winner. Unfortunately, the Italian Government provided an unbeatable financial deal.

With some trepidation I was later involved when a transport / VIP aircraft was being selected. Again, I worked for a funding syndicate that offered lease deals on new and used aircraft (737, 757 or A320).

A decade or more on, if the Queen flies on regular and charter aircraft, perhaps about time the NZ PM does likewise.

LamboAston · Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:01 am

NZ791 is being operated by a 772 instead of an A320

Qantas16 · Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:23 am

Planesmart wrote:
Many decades ago (late 80's), I was involved in putting together a lease package for all the different jet trainer brands, including the eventual winner. Unfortunately, the Italian Government provided an unbeatable financial deal.

With some trepidation I was later involved when a transport / VIP aircraft was being selected. Again, I worked for a funding syndicate that offered lease deals on new and used aircraft (737, 757 or A320).

A decade or more on, if the Queen flies on regular and charter aircraft, perhaps about time the NZ PM does likewise.

I tend to agree. If getting AKL-India requires two stops on the 757 then why not do it in one stop on a commercial airline... Hard to think of many destinations that you couldn't get to in one stop from AKL (or two from WLG)...

ZK-NBT · Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:38 am

LamboAston wrote:
NZ791 is being operated by a 772 instead of an A320

I saw that but it seemed to be incorrect as I also saw an NZ791 operated by an A320, while the 772 was at the jetbase, someone must have played with the transponder.

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