ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:25 am

zkncj wrote:
Anyone know how AKL handled 5 A380 services today? Can't wait to see the day that the SQ services runs an couple of hours late.


Several layovers take A380's like the EK DXB non stop that sits 1110 2115 plus likely the EK MEL flight 1345-1850 while the other EK's will mostly be BNE-AKL-SYD 1435-1630 and SYD-AKL-BNE 1555-1810 while SQ slips in 1145-1330. SQ was late a couple of times last year in 1500 didn't out 1630 but EK was on a layover anyway. Might have meant narrow bodies been bused.
 
haggis73
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:06 am

DavidByrne wrote:
haggis73 wrote:
Bringing over the V8 Supercars for the Pukekohe round this weekend.

Umm, I have just got back from the Gold Coast, and it was the V8 supercars THERE last weekend, not Melbourne . . .

Not that I'd want anyone to think I was a fan - real racing vars are open-wheelers. But I did just happen to be on the Gold Coast and had to avoid the crowds.

That's right, there has been a week in between them coming to AKL in which time the cars have been through their respective workshops of which the majority of the teams are based in Melbourne.
 
zkanz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:12 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
haggis73 wrote:
Bringing over the V8 Supercars for the Pukekohe round this weekend.

Umm, I have just got back from the Gold Coast, and it was the V8 supercars THERE last weekend, not Melbourne . . .

Not that I'd want anyone to think I was a fan - real racing vars are open-wheelers. But I did just happen to be on the Gold Coast and had to avoid the crowds.


Many of the teams are based around Melbourne and would've taken the week and a bit since the event on the Gold Coast to repair and tune their cars at their home facilities.
 
Jetstar315
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:04 am

Air New Zealand's final A320ceo ZK-OXM Msn 7362 is due in Auckland tonight at around 11pm on its delivery flight from Toulouse France. This will be the 32nd A320 delivered to Air NZ
and will bring the current A320 fleet to 30 aircraft. (ZK-OJJ was sold off as soon as it was delivered, and ZK-OJL was tragically lost in an accident off the coast of France).

The next deliveries of A320s/A321s will be the new neos starting next August.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:33 am

Jetstar315 wrote:
Air New Zealand's final A320ceo ZK-OXM Msn 7362 is due in Auckland tonight at around 11pm on its delivery flight from Toulouse France. This will be the 32nd A320 delivered to Air NZ
and will bring the current A320 fleet to 30 aircraft. (ZK-OJJ was sold off as soon as it was delivered, and ZK-OJL was tragically lost in an accident off the coast of France).

The next deliveries of A320s/A321s will be the new neos starting next August.


It's certainly turning into quite a fleet. I am trying to fly them all, but with mixed results, I'm finally closing in on the domestics again - OXI,OXK,OXL and OXM to go I have plenty of the international ones still to go though (having only flown OJA,OJD,OJI) so it is unlikely I will get them all before they retire.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:41 am

Jetstar315 wrote:
Air New Zealand's final A320ceo ZK-OXM Msn 7362 is due in Auckland tonight at around 11pm on its delivery flight from Toulouse France.


And the HF radio buddy about 50 kms behind is ZK-OJK doing NZ734 BNE-AKL.

PA515
Last edited by PA515 on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:58 am

Re the anticipated Air NZ 789 order.

All the RR 789s for 2017 delivery are now listed by http://nyc787.blogspot.com on his spreadsheet, with the exception of two.
L/N 645 delivery 19 Dec 2017 and L/N 651 delivery 31 Dec 2017, which is a bit late for Air NZ's peak season schedule.

The last Air NZ 789 order was on 08 Dec 2014 for two, delivery in late 2017 and second half of 2018.

Any 789s ordered in the next six weeks are most likely going to be for 2018 and 2019 delivery.

PA515
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:55 am

With VA now basically in severe financial distress and removing from service its entire ATR fleet viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1346641 could NZ possibly be interested in some of their ATRs?

A facebook page for JQ to Northland is gaining in strength each day with now over 100,000 likes, wonder where this will lead?
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PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:32 am

777ER wrote:
With VA now basically in severe financial distress and removing from service its entire ATR fleet viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1346641 could NZ possibly be interested in some of their ATRs?
No. The VA ATRs are a mix of -500s and -600 and are all leased. Air NZ is only interested in new aircraft.

Apparently there are significant early termination penalties for the VA ATR leases, so it might be cheaper to keep them.

The two Intersky -600s have been for sale for some time and Air NZ has shown no interest in them. Also Nordic Aviation Capital (NAC) has had a few -600s returned early from Azul. If there was a surplus of -600s on the market Air NZ could get a new one earlier, like ZK-MVO.

777ER wrote:
A facebook page for JQ to Northland is gaining in strength each day with now over 100,000 likes, wonder where this will lead?
Nowhere.

PA515
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:12 pm

ZKOXA wrote:
ZKOXA

Welcome to the NZ forum. Yet another user with and Air NZ registration as their username!

LamboAston wrote:
CA784 is on the 789 today instead of the A332

I caught its arrival:
Image


samzkvh wrote:
The Crew Rest area in the most recent (and future) deliveries is now below the main deck, allowing 429 seats in Y

Which delivery was this started from? In the past it has been the easiest way to differentiate a regular and ULH configured EK A380.

aerorobnz wrote:
The Mayhem begins...

Gasman wrote:
Fortunately, AAIL has done all the forward planning and infrastructure is well in place, so the average pax at AKL won't even notice the congestion....

SelandiaBaru wrote:
Forward planning and infrastructure are not terms I would associate with AIAL, certainly not on a scale that matches reality. All of my regular touch points with AIAL from air traffic, apron, terminal through to parking show both a distinct lack of planning and infrastructure that has really surprised this returning expat.

:lol: AIAL is hopeless.

ZKOXA wrote:
I can't find much to complain about with the airport.

    The lack of gate space in the international terminal meaning that bus gates are frequently in use and delays on arrival for widebodies are a normal occurance.
    The incredibly overcrowded check in area at International.
    The way the bag conveyor seems to regularly breakdown at International.
    The regular fire alarms/evacuations at International.
    The disconnect between gates 15/16 and the rest of the International terminal.
    The drab interior and low ceilings on the lower level of gates 1-10.
    The way that the airport's design makes it impossible for enthusiasts to see just about anything that's parked at the international terminal.
    The massive queue that there always is at MPI (some of this is no doubt MPI's fault, but the lack of space in their hall surely contributes).
    The lack of non-airside viewing decks at either terminal.
    The fact that there is no covered walkway between the Domestic and International terminals (let alone an internal connection so that one doesn't have to go outside).
    The filthiness of the windows at International (especially the ones facing gate 15....its beyond disgusting - I don't think they ever get washed).
    The way that the airbridge for gate 33 completely obscures that view from the Domestic Koru Lounge. It would be an excellent view if it wasn't being blocked.
    The 'regional terminal' which is quite frankly agricultural. The few times I've used it would indicate that my grandfather's shed (built in the 1940s) has more insulation in its walls than the regional terminal does. It's certainly less draughty.
    The lack of rail to the airport.
    The constant traffic jams getting there.
    The fact that the airport's location means that those of us living on the Shore have a 50 minute drive to get there (assuming minimal traffic....good luck if 0700-1000 or 1500-1900!)
    The way that, despite all the problems I've listed, AIAL is spending lots of $$$$ redeveloping the airport's shopping center. Management genuinely seems to believe that everything is going hunky dory.

...is that enough?

ZKOXA wrote:
Thanks for the help, semis odd from AVV though does it not?

AVV will have cheaper landing fees than MEL.

PA515 wrote:
And the last two ex Air NZ Beech 1900D's ZK-EAH and ZK-EAN went AKL-NLK-SYD-BWU today.

When EAH was arriving at AKL on sunday ATC vectored them in incredibly tightly to slot them in ahead of other traffic. They were still rolling out of a turn at was must have been 100-120ft. No pax aboard so I guess that's allowed.

aerorobnz wrote:
I have plenty of the international ones still to go though (having only flown OJA,OJD,OJI) so it is unlikely I will get them all before they retire.

I'm also hopelessly behind in my quest to log as many international A320s as possible before they leave. Would be nice if they flew some domestic sectors more regularly. I was wondering a few days ago that, given the significant growth that Air New Zealand has made on domestic routes in the past couple of years, is there a chance of them hanging into a couple of International A320s and converting them to a similar spec as ZK-OAB/OJQ/OJR/OJS to add further capacity?

777ER wrote:
could NZ possibly be interested in some of their ATRs?

Could be an excellent opportunity for the carrier to boost the ATR fleet. VA's recent troubles really do vindicate Luxton and his moves to get out of VA.

777ER wrote:
A facebook page for JQ to Northland is gaining in strength each day with now over 100,000 likes, wonder where this will lead?

I don't see how there is much money to be made on 20 minute flights to/from places like WRE.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:13 pm

777ER wrote:
With VA now basically in severe financial distress and removing from service its entire ATR fleet viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1346641 could NZ possibly be interested in some of their ATRs?


I pondered that question too. -600s possibly if they took all 7 as an interim lease in conjunction with factory fresh option conversions to assist them replace the Q300s and dissolve Air Nelson quickly and easily. Other than that, No.

The best thing right now would be for VA to go under and for NZ to take delivery of the new NEOs for their own services AND keep the older A320s until they can take delivery of enough extra NEOs to take over the old "Pacific Blue" slack transtasman and to the pacific to SYD/BNE/MEL/OOL/TBU/APW/RAR ex AKL and potentially add the ex BNE routes to VLI/HIR/POM for the extra ex AKL plus WLG/CHC/DUD/ZQN T-T.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:14 pm

As the debate regarding infrastructure and management at AKL seems to have really blown up in the last few weeks I thought that I'd share a few of my thoughts on the issue:

Personally I do not see the big drama about bus ops, I am by no means saying that this should come at the expense of more contact gates and i cant say that im impressed that it will have been essentially 10 years by the time gates 17-18 are built since 15-16 were done. However there are numerous bus ops at many large airports around the world and life goes on. Perhaps it does not bother me so much since i am from a regional city where we have no choice but to walk across the tarmac in rain, wind and shine. Yes it can be a tad uncomfortable but its not the end of the world.

The distance between 1-10 and 15-16 is 10 minutes, hardly arduous

As for low ceilings in 1-10, its important to remember that the airport had very little time in which to plan and build that new top level in order to ensure passenger separation in 2004/5. I also believe the interiors of these gates were also updated in the last few years and have found them to be modern and fresh, however I acknowledge that everyone has different tastes.

The airport is under no obligation to provide spotting locations for people, yes it is a nice to have but hardly essential. I think we are very fortunate to even have Puhinui Rd as well as the fact that we can take photos without the fear of being harassed/arrested which is the case in so many places across the world

MPI as mentioned is most likely a staffing problem and at the end of the day that is hardly surprising given the amount of cuts going on in numerous government departments. Perhaps a portion of the GST gained from tourism can be reallocated into these departments. The same goes for Immigration NZ and AvSec

International - Domestic terminals again only 10-15mins walk and there is a bus if you don't want to get wet.

As for transport to the airport, AKL Airport is essentially between a rock and hard place as the roads that converge there are state highways and therefore under the control of the Govt/NZTA, rail (whether heavy or light) to the airport, when it happens, will be controlled primarily again by the Govt and Auckland Transport/Council. It will be interesting to see if the Waterview Connection will help reduce travel times from those on the Shore and further north.

I found the points about the check-in hall interesting as for a long time it would appear that it was one of the few parts of the international terminal that was built ahead of demand and now appears to have grown into it with the high level of growth that has occurred in the last few years. As for conveyor belt issues, is it actually breaking down or just emergency stopping due to stuck luggage? Having seen a similar Glidepath system operating at another major NZ Airport the systems have sensors and the like that can be quite sensitive and automatically stop the system if a bag gets caught in the dividers or are spaced too close, etc.

As for the extension to shopping, and things like the landing business/logistics precinct, I am indifferent, i will appreciate the new space available from the shopping extension as i do think it is rather cramped and the new design looks like it will spread people out more. I think it is also important to remember that increasing non-aeronautical revenue streams help insulate the airport when global events disrupt the aeronautical revenue streams and airlines could well pull out.

These are just my views, everyone is different.
 
samzkvh
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:53 pm

samzkvh wrote:
The Crew Rest area in the most recent (and future) deliveries is now below the main deck, allowing 429 seats in Y

Which delivery was this started from? In the past it has been the easiest way to differentiate a regular and ULH configured EK A380.

A6-EUE onwards
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:18 am

NPL8800 wrote:
As the debate regarding infrastructure and management at AKL seems to have really blown up in the last few weeks I thought that I'd share a few of my thoughts on the issue:

Personally I do not see the big drama about bus ops, I am by no means saying that this should come at the expense of more contact gates and i cant say that im impressed that it will have been essentially 10 years by the time gates 17-18 are built since 15-16 were done. However there are numerous bus ops at many large airports around the world and life goes on. Perhaps it does not bother me so much since i am from a regional city where we have no choice but to walk across the tarmac in rain, wind and shine. Yes it can be a tad uncomfortable but its not the end of the world.

The distance between 1-10 and 15-16 is 10 minutes, hardly arduous

As for low ceilings in 1-10, its important to remember that the airport had very little time in which to plan and build that new top level in order to ensure passenger separation in 2004/5. I also believe the interiors of these gates were also updated in the last few years and have found them to be modern and fresh, however I acknowledge that everyone has different tastes.

The airport is under no obligation to provide spotting locations for people, yes it is a nice to have but hardly essential. I think we are very fortunate to even have Puhinui Rd as well as the fact that we can take photos without the fear of being harassed/arrested which is the case in so many places across the world

MPI as mentioned is most likely a staffing problem and at the end of the day that is hardly surprising given the amount of cuts going on in numerous government departments. Perhaps a portion of the GST gained from tourism can be reallocated into these departments. The same goes for Immigration NZ and AvSec

International - Domestic terminals again only 10-15mins walk and there is a bus if you don't want to get wet.

As for transport to the airport, AKL Airport is essentially between a rock and hard place as the roads that converge there are state highways and therefore under the control of the Govt/NZTA, rail (whether heavy or light) to the airport, when it happens, will be controlled primarily again by the Govt and Auckland Transport/Council. It will be interesting to see if the Waterview Connection will help reduce travel times from those on the Shore and further north.

I found the points about the check-in hall interesting as for a long time it would appear that it was one of the few parts of the international terminal that was built ahead of demand and now appears to have grown into it with the high level of growth that has occurred in the last few years. As for conveyor belt issues, is it actually breaking down or just emergency stopping due to stuck luggage? Having seen a similar Glidepath system operating at another major NZ Airport the systems have sensors and the like that can be quite sensitive and automatically stop the system if a bag gets caught in the dividers or are spaced too close, etc.

As for the extension to shopping, and things like the landing business/logistics precinct, I am indifferent, i will appreciate the new space available from the shopping extension as i do think it is rather cramped and the new design looks like it will spread people out more. I think it is also important to remember that increasing non-aeronautical revenue streams help insulate the airport when global events disrupt the aeronautical revenue streams and airlines could well pull out.

These are just my views, everyone is different.


Thank you - I totally mirror your views, and grow a bit tired of the constant AIAL bashing on here, just as much as the constant Air New Zealand bashing. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but what is going on here is much more than that. And, of course, the armchair CEOs on here know everyting much better than the actual CEOs :roll: My gripe is also with the often extremely harsh wording (along the line of "this CEO is an idiot" and "AIAL are useless"....) - that doesn't add anything to the debate.

Of course things can be better, and I wasn't excited either to arrive last Sunday at midnight, have two immigration counters open and having to wait for almost an hour. I have no idead if that is indeed a staffing issue of Immigration NZ ort AIAL's planning or whatever reason, and while I am tired and want to get out of there at that time, it certainly doesn't harm me in any way. I had MUCH longer waits in YVR, FRA, SFO, LAX, and many other airports...

Just my 2 cents
micha
 
ZKOXA
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:47 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:30 am

zkeoj wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
As the debate regarding infrastructure and management at AKL seems to have really blown up in the last few weeks I thought that I'd share a few of my thoughts on the issue:

Personally I do not see the big drama about bus ops, I am by no means saying that this should come at the expense of more contact gates and i cant say that im impressed that it will have been essentially 10 years by the time gates 17-18 are built since 15-16 were done. However there are numerous bus ops at many large airports around the world and life goes on. Perhaps it does not bother me so much since i am from a regional city where we have no choice but to walk across the tarmac in rain, wind and shine. Yes it can be a tad uncomfortable but its not the end of the world.

The distance between 1-10 and 15-16 is 10 minutes, hardly arduous

As for low ceilings in 1-10, its important to remember that the airport had very little time in which to plan and build that new top level in order to ensure passenger separation in 2004/5. I also believe the interiors of these gates were also updated in the last few years and have found them to be modern and fresh, however I acknowledge that everyone has different tastes.

The airport is under no obligation to provide spotting locations for people, yes it is a nice to have but hardly essential. I think we are very fortunate to even have Puhinui Rd as well as the fact that we can take photos without the fear of being harassed/arrested which is the case in so many places across the world

MPI as mentioned is most likely a staffing problem and at the end of the day that is hardly surprising given the amount of cuts going on in numerous government departments. Perhaps a portion of the GST gained from tourism can be reallocated into these departments. The same goes for Immigration NZ and AvSec

International - Domestic terminals again only 10-15mins walk and there is a bus if you don't want to get wet.

As for transport to the airport, AKL Airport is essentially between a rock and hard place as the roads that converge there are state highways and therefore under the control of the Govt/NZTA, rail (whether heavy or light) to the airport, when it happens, will be controlled primarily again by the Govt and Auckland Transport/Council. It will be interesting to see if the Waterview Connection will help reduce travel times from those on the Shore and further north.

I found the points about the check-in hall interesting as for a long time it would appear that it was one of the few parts of the international terminal that was built ahead of demand and now appears to have grown into it with the high level of growth that has occurred in the last few years. As for conveyor belt issues, is it actually breaking down or just emergency stopping due to stuck luggage? Having seen a similar Glidepath system operating at another major NZ Airport the systems have sensors and the like that can be quite sensitive and automatically stop the system if a bag gets caught in the dividers or are spaced too close, etc.

As for the extension to shopping, and things like the landing business/logistics precinct, I am indifferent, i will appreciate the new space available from the shopping extension as i do think it is rather cramped and the new design looks like it will spread people out more. I think it is also important to remember that increasing non-aeronautical revenue streams help insulate the airport when global events disrupt the aeronautical revenue streams and airlines could well pull out.

These are just my views, everyone is different.


Thank you - I totally mirror your views, and grow a bit tired of the constant AIAL bashing on here, just as much as the constant Air New Zealand bashing. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but what is going on here is much more than that. And, of course, the armchair CEOs on here know everyting much better than the actual CEOs :roll: My gripe is also with the often extremely harsh wording (along the line of "this CEO is an idiot" and "AIAL are useless"....) - that doesn't add anything to the debate.

Of course things can be better, and I wasn't excited either to arrive last Sunday at midnight, have two immigration counters open and having to wait for almost an hour. I have no idead if that is indeed a staffing issue of Immigration NZ ort AIAL's planning or whatever reason, and while I am tired and want to get out of there at that time, it certainly doesn't harm me in any way. I had MUCH longer waits in YVR, FRA, SFO, LAX, and many other airports...

Just my 2 cents
micha


I totally agree with both of you, there are things to be desired from Auckland Airport, but the waits at Auckland aren't too bad. They are nowhere near as bad as in SFO or LAX. Last year after arriving on NZ8 in SFO, the plane landed with several other * Alliance carriers and the wait was a good 2.5hrs. This year, after arriving on a 1hr flight into KUL, I had to wait at immigration for 3hrs. Auckland is not nearly this bad. I think though that they do need to improve quickly as the amount of new carries in Auckland is growing, soon it may become as bad as KUL or SFO or LAX!

ZKOXA
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:05 am

zkeoj wrote:
I wasn't excited either to arrive last Sunday at midnight, have two immigration counters open and having to wait for almost an hour.

I must have been lucky - I arrived at 11.15 the same night (before the midnight rush) and it was a complete breeze!
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:09 am

DavidByrne wrote:
zkeoj wrote:
I wasn't excited either to arrive last Sunday at midnight, have two immigration counters open and having to wait for almost an hour.

I must have been lucky - I arrived at 11.15 the same night (before the midnight rush) and it was a complete breeze!


Yup - lucky you :-) Most of my recent flights I have been through pretty quickly - this was the first time in a long time that I had quite some waiting. The queue for international passports was double as long!
 
NPL8800
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:39 am

Thank you - I totally mirror your views, and grow a bit tired of the constant AIAL bashing on here, just as much as the constant Air New Zealand bashing. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but what is going on here is much more than that. And, of course, the armchair CEOs on here know everyting much better than the actual CEOs :roll: My gripe is also with the often extremely harsh wording (along the line of "this CEO is an idiot" and "AIAL are useless"....) - that doesn't add anything to the debate.

Of course things can be better, and I wasn't excited either to arrive last Sunday at midnight, have two immigration counters open and having to wait for almost an hour. I have no idead if that is indeed a staffing issue of Immigration NZ ort AIAL's planning or whatever reason, and while I am tired and want to get out of there at that time, it certainly doesn't harm me in any way. I had MUCH longer waits in YVR, FRA, SFO, LAX, and many other airports...

Just my 2 cents
micha


I too feel like the emotive language isn't really achieving anything and yes i agree that like any airport around the world there is always room for improvement, and in many of AKL's cases a lot of small changes could make a big difference. I also feel that the route development managers/team in particular at AKL deserve a considerable amount of praise for the large amount of additional flights and airlines that they have achieved in the last 2 years, close to 10 long haul carriers in such a short space of time is very impressive.

I think it would be in AKL's best interest to consider a spread in the NZ Herald and online that visually and verbally outlines exactly who is responsible for what. One only has to look on the review section of the AKL Airport facebook page to see the amount of people that are giving very poor reviews for things that are simply not the airport company's fault. Things such as baggage loss, rude check-in/immigration staff and insufficient counters open to name some of the more common ones. Of course many of these people are not to know that they are being served by a third party and some people will also never be happy, but i think a greater amount of education could help, and im sure many people would actually be surprised and amazed at just how many organisations it takes to run the airport.
 
haggis73
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:09 pm

NZ sending an A320 charter to PPT this morning, NZ1980 ZK-OJF.

No sign of a departure on the NZ flight arrivals & departure webpage. Crew rest?
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4354
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:41 pm

zkeoj wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
As the debate regarding infrastructure and management at AKL seems to have really blown up in the last few weeks I thought that I'd share a few of my thoughts on the issue:

Personally I do not see the big drama about bus ops, I am by no means saying that this should come at the expense of more contact gates and i cant say that im impressed that it will have been essentially 10 years by the time gates 17-18 are built since 15-16 were done. However there are numerous bus ops at many large airports around the world and life goes on. Perhaps it does not bother me so much since i am from a regional city where we have no choice but to walk across the tarmac in rain, wind and shine. Yes it can be a tad uncomfortable but its not the end of the world.

The distance between 1-10 and 15-16 is 10 minutes, hardly arduous

As for low ceilings in 1-10, its important to remember that the airport had very little time in which to plan and build that new top level in order to ensure passenger separation in 2004/5. I also believe the interiors of these gates were also updated in the last few years and have found them to be modern and fresh, however I acknowledge that everyone has different tastes.

The airport is under no obligation to provide spotting locations for people, yes it is a nice to have but hardly essential. I think we are very fortunate to even have Puhinui Rd as well as the fact that we can take photos without the fear of being harassed/arrested which is the case in so many places across the world

MPI as mentioned is most likely a staffing problem and at the end of the day that is hardly surprising given the amount of cuts going on in numerous government departments. Perhaps a portion of the GST gained from tourism can be reallocated into these departments. The same goes for Immigration NZ and AvSec

International - Domestic terminals again only 10-15mins walk and there is a bus if you don't want to get wet.

As for transport to the airport, AKL Airport is essentially between a rock and hard place as the roads that converge there are state highways and therefore under the control of the Govt/NZTA, rail (whether heavy or light) to the airport, when it happens, will be controlled primarily again by the Govt and Auckland Transport/Council. It will be interesting to see if the Waterview Connection will help reduce travel times from those on the Shore and further north.

I found the points about the check-in hall interesting as for a long time it would appear that it was one of the few parts of the international terminal that was built ahead of demand and now appears to have grown into it with the high level of growth that has occurred in the last few years. As for conveyor belt issues, is it actually breaking down or just emergency stopping due to stuck luggage? Having seen a similar Glidepath system operating at another major NZ Airport the systems have sensors and the like that can be quite sensitive and automatically stop the system if a bag gets caught in the dividers or are spaced too close, etc.

As for the extension to shopping, and things like the landing business/logistics precinct, I am indifferent, i will appreciate the new space available from the shopping extension as i do think it is rather cramped and the new design looks like it will spread people out more. I think it is also important to remember that increasing non-aeronautical revenue streams help insulate the airport when global events disrupt the aeronautical revenue streams and airlines could well pull out.

These are just my views, everyone is different.


Thank you - I totally mirror your views, and grow a bit tired of the constant AIAL bashing on here, just as much as the constant Air New Zealand bashing. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but what is going on here is much more than that. And, of course, the armchair CEOs on here know everyting much better than the actual CEOs :roll: My gripe is also with the often extremely harsh wording (along the line of "this CEO is an idiot" and "AIAL are useless"....) - that doesn't add anything to the debate.

Of course things can be better, and I wasn't excited either to arrive last Sunday at midnight, have two immigration counters open and having to wait for almost an hour. I have no idead if that is indeed a staffing issue of Immigration NZ ort AIAL's planning or whatever reason, and while I am tired and want to get out of there at that time, it certainly doesn't harm me in any way. I had MUCH longer waits in YVR, FRA, SFO, LAX, and many other airports...

Just my 2 cents
micha

The immigration thing has nothing to do with AIAL.
However I don't agree with your take on how AIAL run the airport. They penny pinch at every opportunity and never seem to think medium term (let along long term). It is all about the short term buck. Would it really be so costly for them to extend past Gate 15/16? They are going to have to do it at some point anyway - better to do it earlier to minimise disruption later when things are busier. 17/18 should have been built years ago (even if they had only put 1 airbridge on each until demand needed the extras). Most airports that bus passengers do so because they have come up against land constraints - they literally can't expand in a cost effective manner. AKL has plenty of space to expand the terminals and I don't think there is a single forecast anywhere out there that thinks passenger movements at AKL will drop any time soon - all are forecasting big increases.
64 types. 42 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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SelandiaBaru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:17 am

Zkpilot wrote:
The immigration thing has nothing to do with AIAL.
However I don't agree with your take on how AIAL run the airport. They penny pinch at every opportunity and never seem to think medium term (let along long term). It is all about the short term buck. Would it really be so costly for them to extend past Gate 15/16? They are going to have to do it at some point anyway - better to do it earlier to minimise disruption later when things are busier. 17/18 should have been built years ago (even if they had only put 1 airbridge on each until demand needed the extras). Most airports that bus passengers do so because they have come up against land constraints - they literally can't expand in a cost effective manner. AKL has plenty of space to expand the terminals and I don't think there is a single forecast anywhere out there that thinks passenger movements at AKL will drop any time soon - all are forecasting big increases.


Precisely.

The domestic side is just as bad. There aren't enough gates and stands and this causes delays without Mount Cook even having the full complement of ATR's yet! The whole passenger experience for the regional gates is terrible too. It really needs to be properly enclosed as has been done with the southern regional pier in Wellington (also another airport with serious constraints in regard to gates).

And while I enjoy the walk between Domestic and International terminal from time to time it's also less than ideal from a passenger experience point, especially with unfamiliar people making international connections. The bus is a bit of a joke too and I've found it to be somewhat unreliable as far as the schedule is concerned and certainly interesting from a comfort perspective.

While on paper a second runway may not be fiscally justified in perfect conditions the reality is that because Auckland as a single runway operation creates major downstream effects across the country with even the slightest delays or inclement weather. This can and does result in ground holds at regional ports and then all sorts of random speed controls once eventually airborne.

I find it all rather perplexing how inefficient it all is when really it's just not that busy compared to other major cities worldwide.

As an investor I'm concerned that in taking a short term approach and delaying capital spending on necessary infrastructure and improvements they are creating the potential for real pressure on the share price when things really reach tipping point.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:19 am

The AIAL does get plenty of unjustified press and complaints that Airlines and agencies bear responsibility for, but much is still justified. I am under no illusion of the limitations of ground handlers, border agencies, caterers and Airport alike. They are all as bad as each other when it comes to doing anything without a push, but the reason they are not better right now is because they can always turn it round on the airport company and say "this airport is is insufficiently designed - we can't hire extra staff to compensate for terminal limitations". I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point . If the underlying airport is good by design then they have no excuse when the pressure gets applied on them to be better/to hire more staff/pay more or whatever.

Check in counters are ultimately governed by the airport. An airline chooses to pay for a certain number of counters say 8 or 10 for a big bird and 4-6 for a small bird, but when all the flights are checking in at the same time because the AIAL has chosen to accept airlines they don't have the counter space which prevents an airline getting what they pay for which causes queues, then yes the AIAL is at fault. If they controlled it and said :Availability for check desks, or contact gates etc is not possible at the time you want it" then they would be managing their resource, but part of the reason they have 10 airlines is because they just say yes first and deal with the consequences later. They don't turn around and say to them "The only slots we have are..."

"As for low ceilings in 1-10, its important to remember that the airport had very little time in which to plan and build that new top level in order to ensure passenger separation in 2004/5"
Had they just extended pier B from the outset of design without deferral they could have built 10 gates (or really even just an extra 3 17/18/19) and closed the old one off for demolition/remodeling until they needed it opened. The basic work had already been completed it just needed actioning. Far more simple and would have given them way more flexibility for the future to build exactly what they wanted at Pier A/Domestic. The fact is they waited until legislation forced their hand into a compromise instead of observing all the airport/geopolitical trends better - AKL seems to be the only airport who had the problem with the legislative change. The writing for passenger segregation was on the wall for some time prior during which time they did nothing.

The issue is really at every stage/phase of development since privatisation they have opted out and taken the cheapest most compromised option they could which meant they would have to pay more at the next step if something untoward happens or if demand outstrips growth they can react more quickly.. I also blame the government for not negotiating a certain level of reinvestment in infrastructure per year when they privatised (like many countries have done). to ensue a degree of control in their premier entry point into the country.

One can get drowned out with vitriolic hyperbole by people jumping on the bandwagon who are totally unfamiliar with airports beyond OOL, NAN, RAR, but for those of us who work at, and fly frequently from there is still plenty of justified complaint that should be directed at Auckland Airport.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
nascarnut
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:34 am

Where to now for AIAL.
With 2016 being a year of significant expansion as far as airlines and the AIAL trying to cope while spending little money. The expansion of the terminal beyond gates 13/14 to take 2 or 3 additional A380's has begun. Additional hardstands by taxiway Lima well underway.
With both Domestic and International gates reaching their limits several times throughout the day, how quickly can the AIAL create additional space for domestic operations. They appear to have International covered short term by replacing grass with concrete.
Will the continue to pursue additional carriers into AKL.
Air Nuigini PX was talked about for awhile from POM
Garuda GA ex DPS or JKT was also talked about but has gone quiet.
Cebu is now looking at International expansion and have mentioned NZ and Australia
How many more Chinese carriers will look at the market or will the incumbents, CZ, CA, MU look at additional cities as they have done in SYD/MEL.
Could the likes of ANA, EVA Air, Vietnam Airlines start looking again.
The US is pretty well set unless Delta or Air Canada make a move. Air Canada would only do it in cooperation with NZ. Delta would need a strong VA to assist them.
South America, your left with GIG/GRU with SCL and EZE taken care of.
Maybe now it's time for the airport to look at consolidating it's position and become a truly first class airport and provide the facilities the airlines and passengers are paying for. There can be nothing worse than flying 13 hours in economy, landing in AKL, spend 30 minutes waiting on a gate, only to end up at a remote gate and get bussed to an overcrowded arrivals hall. The experience must leave a sour taste for some passengers.
I hope for New Zealands sake, growth continues and the airport becomes more proactive than reactive. It would be a shame to see airlines look else where simply because the airport is not up to standard,
 
flyjetstar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:22 am

For those of you who took the Virgin about to go bust thread (and associated article) seriously....

While John Borghetti avoided a Melbourne Cup hangover (he has never attended the event) on Wednesday, the Virgin Australia chief was dealing with a hangover of a different kind on the day he released some underwhelming first quarter numbers.

The results coincided with the release of an online story by an outfit touting itself as a Sydney-based "independent research firm" that was less than flattering about Virgin's future.

The story appearing on australinea.com claimed to have seen an internal memo alleging the airline was facing a "severe cash flow crisis".

The article claimed Virgin had "limited options" for raising equity and suggested it would have issues financing its debt in the future. Virgin has dismissed the article, which is suspected to be a hoax, as factually wrong.


http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/vi ... 102-gsgjrl
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:23 am

flyjetstar wrote:
For those of you who took the Virgin about to go bust thread (and associated article) seriously....

While John Borghetti avoided a Melbourne Cup hangover (he has never attended the event) on Wednesday, the Virgin Australia chief was dealing with a hangover of a different kind on the day he released some underwhelming first quarter numbers.

The results coincided with the release of an online story by an outfit touting itself as a Sydney-based "independent research firm" that was less than flattering about Virgin's future.

The story appearing on australinea.com claimed to have seen an internal memo alleging the airline was facing a "severe cash flow crisis".

The article claimed Virgin had "limited options" for raising equity and suggested it would have issues financing its debt in the future. Virgin has dismissed the article, which is suspected to be a hoax, as factually wrong.


http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/vi ... 102-gsgjrl


If so it's a shame, There's no love lost by me for VA. They still made a pre-tax loss, so there's still hope ;-)
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:27 pm

From Sunday 06 Nov the 789 replaces the 77E on AKL-EZE and there will only be five 77Es in use until about 06 Dec. That should be enough time to repaint OKB, OKD, OKF, OKG and OKH. When OKE and OKA were repainted at FTW May-Jun they took 15 days and 14 days.

PA515
 
HLZCPH
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:34 pm

According to another website, ZK-NCJ is now stored at Auckland. Does anyone know of her future? And NCI, NCG?
The 763 is providing popular for freighter conversions, the QF birds were all scooped up except for the Westjet ones.....
 
ZKOXA
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:11 pm

The seasonal flight Auckland-Osaka has resumed today as NZ97, operated by ZK-NZE.

ZKOXA
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:52 am

HLZCPH wrote:
According to another website, ZK-NCJ is now stored at Auckland. Does anyone know of her future? And NCI, NCG?
The 763 is providing popular for freighter conversions, the QF birds were all scooped up except for the Westjet ones.....


Icelandair took the last few. Word is they may be looking at more.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
duff
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:44 am

PA515 wrote:
From Sunday 06 Nov the 789 replaces the 77E on AKL-EZE and there will only be five 77Es in use until about 06 Dec. That should be enough time to repaint OKB, OKD, OKF, OKG and OKH. When OKE and OKA were repainted at FTW May-Jun they took 15 days and 14 days.

PA515


Pretty sure 4 aircraft aren't being painted now
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:08 am

duff wrote:
PA515 wrote:
From Sunday 06 Nov the 789 replaces the 77E on AKL-EZE and there will only be five 77Es in use until about 06 Dec. That should be enough time to repaint OKB, OKD, OKF, OKG and OKH. When OKE and OKA were repainted at FTW May-Jun they took 15 days and 14 days.

PA515


Pretty sure 4 aircraft aren't being painted now

The leased four?
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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ZKOXA
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:27 am

LamboAston wrote:
duff wrote:
PA515 wrote:
From Sunday 06 Nov the 789 replaces the 77E on AKL-EZE and there will only be five 77Es in use until about 06 Dec. That should be enough time to repaint OKB, OKD, OKF, OKG and OKH. When OKE and OKA were repainted at FTW May-Jun they took 15 days and 14 days.

PA515


Pretty sure 4 aircraft aren't being painted now

The leased four?


IIRC the leased four are ZK-OKA, OKD, OKE and OKG. But two of these have been repainted, so I'm no sure which aren't going to be painted if any. ZK-OKB, OKF and OKH will probably be painted if they aren't leased.

ZKOXA
 
DougS
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:30 am

Think they are the owned ones. OKB is at least.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:51 am

They will all be repainted regardless. Mostly next year IIRC.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:41 pm

Does anyone know what happened to the old F-27s that were doing the mail runs?
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:52 pm

CZ 788 engine failure after takeoff at AKL, safe landing
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8613325 ... al-airport
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:05 pm

HLZCPH wrote:
According to another website, ZK-NCJ is now stored at Auckland. Does anyone know of her future? And NCI, NCG?
The 763 is providing popular for freighter conversions, the QF birds were all scooped up except for the Westjet ones.....


Driving past ANZES today, noticed NCJ was sitting on the hard stand we're all the other 763/744s went through there exit process.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:12 am

LamboAston wrote:
Does anyone know what happened to the old F-27s that were doing the mail runs?

2 F27s at Air Freight hangar in AKL
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
duff
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:29 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
They will all be repainted regardless. Mostly next year IIRC.


Got a pretty reliable source that says the last 4 won't be painted. not sure what the plan is with regards to why.
 
ZKOXA
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:27 am

duff wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They will all be repainted regardless. Mostly next year IIRC.


Got a pretty reliable source that says the last 4 won't be painted. not sure what the plan is with regards to why.



If the 'last' four aren't going to be painted that must mean they are on their way out pretty soon, it seems strange that they've painted two leased ones, and of the last five still to be painted three are owned.

ZKOXA
 
Mr AirNZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:46 am

If the 'last' four aren't going to be painted that must mean they are on their way out pretty soon, it seems strange that they've painted two leased ones, and of the last five still to be painted three are owned.

Before we all get too excited and start reading into things that aren't there, the first WiFi mods on the 200s late next year are currently OKA (leased/repainted) and OKB (owned/not repainted).

There are five 200s currently remaining in the previous livery. Have some more faith in the market disclosed documents around fleet plans which show eight 200s out till 2021+.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 am

Mr AirNZ wrote:
If the 'last' four aren't going to be painted that must mean they are on their way out pretty soon, it seems strange that they've painted two leased ones, and of the last five still to be painted three are owned.

Before we all get too excited and start reading into things that aren't there, the first WiFi mods on the 200s late next year are currently OKA (leased/repainted) and OKB (owned/not repainted).

There are five 200s currently remaining in the previous livery. Have some more faith in the market disclosed documents around fleet plans which show eight 200s out till 2021+.


Which makes the following comment seem odd, with the current growth and currently only 3 789's on order now, though I expect more but I don't expect any 772's to leave for atleast 5 years. Not sure what lease rates are or resale rates for the owned ones.


duff wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They will all be repainted regardless. Mostly next year IIRC.


Got a pretty reliable source that says the last 4 won't be painted. not sure what the plan is with regards to why.
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:06 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Mr AirNZ wrote:
If the 'last' four aren't going to be painted that must mean they are on their way out pretty soon, it seems strange that they've painted two leased ones, and of the last five still to be painted three are owned.

Before we all get too excited and start reading into things that aren't there, the first WiFi mods on the 200s late next year are currently OKA (leased/repainted) and OKB (owned/not repainted).

There are five 200s currently remaining in the previous livery. Have some more faith in the market disclosed documents around fleet plans which show eight 200s out till 2021+.


Which makes the following comment seem odd, with the current growth and currently only 3 789's on order now, though I expect more but I don't expect any 772's to leave for atleast 5 years. Not sure what lease rates are or resale rates for the owned ones.


duff wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They will all be repainted regardless. Mostly next year IIRC.


Got a pretty reliable source that says the last 4 won't be painted. not sure what the plan is with regards to why.

Current market valuations
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345101
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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ZKOXA
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:33 am

ZK-NZE is operating another inaugural tonight, NZ30/31 AKL-EZE has switched to the 787.

ZKOXA
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:26 am

how NZ use the three 274 seat 789's that start arriving in about one year must have an effect on the future of the 77E's after 2020. Has NZ indicated that all the TT and international fleet will be converted to wifi or have they been silent on the how many?
Would seem to me that there are 77E's to be returned or disposed of in about 4 1/2 years, more 789's to arrive or both . The fall back position would be to return the leased ones unless they can get a good price on an owned frame.
The half year financial report for FY2016 is due in February; this could be the time for a fleet update for FY2020.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:23 am

Re NZ A320 ZK-OX.... rattle-ships
I flew on OXL the other day and it was real quiet on landing and there was a piece of rubber hanging down from the overhead panel. Can anybody enlighten me? Has there been a change of philosophy on the interior spec / re-config? These birds are normally very noisy on reverse thrust and I have always presumed that was because of low-cost (weight reducing) omission of the soft padding that prevents rubber. Love to know.
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:27 am

Also, if you look at fleet numbers for wide body - notwithstanding transition periods between fleets - to what degree has there actually been growth? There was a time when there were 8 or 9 763, 8 744 and 8 772 (i.e. 24 wide body). That was after withdrawal of the 762 but before arrival of 77W. Today there is 9 789, 8 772, 7 77W and 2 763. How much capacity have we really added? Given the rumoured non-painting (can only mean departure) of 4 772 that would mean that we'd be flat in terms of capacity growth with the inbound 789. Thoughts?
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:30 am

Finally, I landed from CHC on Friday abbot 9.40pm on OXF and noticed TG 772 on the ground. Anybody know what happened? Did it go tech?
Plane mad!
 
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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:43 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Finally, I landed from CHC on Friday abbot 9.40pm on OXF and noticed TG 772 on the ground. Anybody know what happened? Did it go tech?


It departed 4h late as THA492D
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hs-tjv
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D, E110 (E for epic)
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 183

Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:37 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Also, if you look at fleet numbers for wide body - notwithstanding transition periods between fleets - to what degree has there actually been growth? There was a time when there were 8 or 9 763, 8 744 and 8 772 (i.e. 24 wide body). That was after withdrawal of the 762 but before arrival of 77W. Today there is 9 789, 8 772, 7 77W and 2 763. How much capacity have we really added? Given the rumoured non-painting (can only mean departure) of 4 772 that would mean that we'd be flat in terms of capacity growth with the inbound 789. Thoughts?


Once the last 772's entered in late 06 early 07 the 763 was only 5 which it remained until this year. So it was 21 wide bodies over 3 types today there are 26 over 3 which looks like it will remain flat with 2 763's leaving and 2 789's arriving in 2017, higher utilisation in peak times though.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos