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LAXintl
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United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:44 pm

.
LAWA and United will enter into new lease at LAX that will see the carrier vacate the former large Continental maintenance base which included 5 hangars, shops, and office facilities located on west end of the airport by December 2018.

Under new lease terms LAWA and United will work to redevelop the older United maintenance facilities located off Century Blvd. More details on the redevelopment will be made after the new year, but from my understanding the project will include a new hangar as none of the current 1950s bays can completely enclose an aircraft (tail sticks out) and hence why most work is done outdoors.

New agreement goes to LAWA Board for approval tomorrow. (pdf download)
http://lawa.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php ... a_id=27552

=

It was always known UA wanted to consolidate maintenance facilities at LAX if for no other reason to save some money, though many suspected UA would elect to keep the larger and more modern 1970s vintage CO facilities. Picking the older sUA facilities though saves UA about $9.3mil in annual rental charges.

Obviously with large decrease in space, one can wonder what this does do maintenance staffing and network scheduling which could see far fewer aircraft have ability to overnight at the station.


Longer term this likely opens the door to AA or DL to gain back lost hangarage space. With construction of Midfield Satellite Concourse, AA in particular has lost much of its maintenance facilities at the airport.
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LAX772LR
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:08 am

Seems the obvious solution would be to move AA to this one, then tear down its current facility for MidField.

Be interesting to see how much of wrench DL would like to throw in it all though. :mrgreen:
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32andBelow
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:10 am

Man working with the hangar door open at LAX must be super rough for the maintenance guys.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:26 am

What a terrible decision. The east side UA facility is near worthless for AC maintenance. Plus you loose about 16 overnight parking spots. You would almost have to assume maintence layoffs, since there is no possible way the east facility can handle the three nightly A checks being performed in the west hangars.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:40 am

32andBelow wrote:
Man working with the hangar door open at LAX must be super rough for the maintenance guys.


Especially when those terrible Southern California winters come around hahaha.
 
winginit
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:53 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Seems the obvious solution would be to move AA to this one, then tear down its current facility for MidField.


AA are unbelievably cramped when it comes to office space at LAX, so I'd be shocked if they didn't pick that up
 
jmc1975
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:56 am

Seems to align with Scott Kirby's vision of eliminating superfluous costs that do not pay back. This could also be a telling signal of future drawdown of UA at LAX, in favor of investment in SFO.
.......
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:26 am

jmc1975 wrote:
Seems to align with Scott Kirby's vision of eliminating superfluous costs that do not pay back. This could also be a telling signal of future drawdown of UA at LAX, in favor of investment in SFO.


But the ongoing hundreds of millions of dollars United is spending to improve facilities?
 
codc10
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:57 am

The UAL maintenance facilities on the east side of the airport supported a much larger UAL operation in the 1990s through mid-2000s, and the Continental facilities on World Way West as such are likely superfluous to the company's needs. This is the type of consolidation the company put on hold for a while post-merger and is, frankly, long overdue. Glad to see the gears start turning here.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:19 am

United is going to build or move into an existing hangar at PDX to start an A check line in the near future. They have been transferring in a bunch of techs in the last few months. Maybe those LAX A checks are moving up to PDX?
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:23 am

ramprat74 wrote:
United is going to build or move into an existing hangar at PDX to start an A check line in the near future. They have been transferring in a bunch of techs in the last few months. Maybe those LAX A checks are moving up to PDX?

The A checks are sCO 757 work. The PDX expansion is sUA airbus work.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:44 am

jmc1975 wrote:
This could also be a telling signal of future drawdown of UA at LAX, in favor of investment in SFO.


Any mention of UA and LAX in the same news item are cause for drawdown speculation here.
 
SWADawg
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:45 am

I wonder if WN would be interested in the Continental Hangar? WN has had line maintenance in LA for quite a while now with no hangar of their own. With the proposed build in flights once Terminal 1 is finished, I could definitely see WN wanting a maintenance hangar of their own, and WN likes to buy existing facilities vs building their own. This could be a good way for them to do just that.
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:04 am

Is the rent that much cheaper on the sUA facilities to be worth giving up the more modern sCO facilities? I've seen 747s sticking out of the hangars, but can at least a 737 or A320 sized plane fit in it? It seems like they would be better letting WN have the sUA hangars while keeping the sCO.
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SFOtoORD
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:27 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Is the rent that much cheaper on the sUA facilities to be worth giving up the more modern sCO facilities? I've seen 747s sticking out of the hangars, but can at least a 737 or A320 sized plane fit in it? It seems like they would be better letting WN have the sUA hangars while keeping the sCO.


From the OP:

LAXIntl wrote:
Under new lease terms LAWA and United will work to redevelop the older United maintenance facilities located off Century Blvd. More details on the redevelopment will be made after the new year, but from my understanding the project will include a new hangar as none of the current 1950s bays can completely enclose an aircraft (tail sticks out) and hence why most work is done outdoors.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:48 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Is the rent that much cheaper on the sUA facilities to be worth giving up the more modern sCO facilities? I've seen 747s sticking out of the hangars, but can at least a 737 or A320 sized plane fit in it? It seems like they would be better letting WN have the sUA hangars while keeping the sCO.

Nothing fits into the sUA hangars. It's nothing more than tool box storage and a place to park GSE. I suppose they will revert to the old policy. If something major happens, ferry it to SFO, because you've essentially given away all usable hangar space.
 
United1
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:46 pm

B737900ER wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Is the rent that much cheaper on the sUA facilities to be worth giving up the more modern sCO facilities? I've seen 747s sticking out of the hangars, but can at least a 737 or A320 sized plane fit in it? It seems like they would be better letting WN have the sUA hangars while keeping the sCO.

Nothing fits into the sUA hangars. It's nothing more than tool box storage and a place to park GSE. I suppose they will revert to the old policy. If something major happens, ferry it to SFO, because you've essentially given away all usable hangar space.


They are building a new hangar at the sUA site this lease is structured to allow them to do that and consolidate everything on one site.
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LAXintl
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:25 pm

United1 wrote:
They are building a new hangar at the sUA site this lease is structured to allow them to do that and consolidate everything on one site.


Keep in mind the redeveloped site will still be a fraction of the foot print UA has today for maintenance at LAX.

The circa 1971 former CO base is the largest maintenance complex at LAX with its 5 hangars, various support shops, office space and car park for a few thousand vehicles.
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piedmont762
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:38 pm

"UA would elect to keep the larger and more modern 1970s vintage CO facilities."

So which is it? Modern or vintage? 1970s isn't exactly modern to me. Makes sense for them to save money if you ask me
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:40 pm

The sCO 1970s base and various investments made on it over the years is far more modern facility than the 1950s circa oversized sheds and half bays that existed on the sUA side.
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United1
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:41 pm

LAXintl wrote:
United1 wrote:
They are building a new hangar at the sUA site this lease is structured to allow them to do that and consolidate everything on one site.


Keep in mind the redeveloped site will still be a fraction of the foot print UA has today for maintenance at LAX.

The circa 1971 former CO base is the largest maintenance complex at LAX with its 5 hangars, various support shops, office space and car park for a few thousand vehicles.


True but I am willing to bet that most of that space is underused...I know UA does line MTC at LAX but both the sUA and sCOs MTC facilities were built when the airlines had much larger footprints at LAX and did quite a bit more MTC in house. Think they will be fine just on the one site especially with a new hangar andy anything else they choose to build. The lease is structured to give them time (it can actually be extended out until 2020 if needed) to build out and actually it looks like UA has been on a month to month since 2013 for the sCO site.
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United1
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm

LAXintl wrote:
The sCO 1970s base and various investments made on it over the years is far more modern facility than the 1950s circa oversized sheds and half bays that existed on the sUA side.


...true but sounds like a lot of the 1950s will be going away and being replaced with something brand new.
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:30 pm

United1 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
United1 wrote:
They are building a new hangar at the sUA site this lease is structured to allow them to do that and consolidate everything on one site.


Keep in mind the redeveloped site will still be a fraction of the foot print UA has today for maintenance at LAX.

The circa 1971 former CO base is the largest maintenance complex at LAX with its 5 hangars, various support shops, office space and car park for a few thousand vehicles.


True but I am willing to bet that most of that space is underused...I know UA does line MTC at LAX but both the sUA and sCOs MTC facilities were built when the airlines had much larger footprints at LAX and did quite a bit more MTC in house. Think they will be fine just on the one site especially with a new hangar andy anything else they choose to build. The lease is structured to give them time (it can actually be extended out until 2020 if needed) to build out and actually it looks like UA has been on a month to month since 2013 for the sCO site.

The sCO facility is actually used quite extensively. All five bays are used nightly and for some substantial work. There are also 11 parking spots outside the hangar that are full every night. Add to that a functional engine build up shop and parts storage, there is no way whatsoever to replace it even with a new hangar. You could move from the east facility to the west with minimal disruption. But going from west to east makes very little sense. And given that the work groups are not integrated, and won't be for the foreseeable future, it looks like UA will have a big mess on its hands.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:46 pm

LAXintl wrote:
The sCO 1970s base and various investments made on it over the years is far more modern facility than the 1950s circa oversized sheds and half bays that existed on the sUA side.


Seems like the complaining might be more about the loss of a "sCO" facility in favor of legacy United facilities. Face it - both are old facilities, they are just trying to save some money by cutting down space.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:58 pm

Interesting.
My guess is AA and DL are going to be fighting hard for it. Not sure if DL wants that much space though.


but the other option i have heard for DL is basically not going to be openable till 2022 or so. Maybe they won't want to wait.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:08 pm

If DL moves to the west location, UA could perhaps expand over to DL's old digs.
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jasonfrederick
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:30 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
Interesting.
My guess is AA and DL are going to be fighting hard for it. Not sure if DL wants that much space though.


but the other option i have heard for DL is basically not going to be openable till 2022 or so. Maybe they won't want to wait.


I wonder too if WN would want them enough to put up a fight as well.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:02 am

iahcsr wrote:
If DL moves to the west location, UA could perhaps expand over to DL's old digs.


All of the options are detailed in the LAMP EIR. That isn't an option for UA or anybody else.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:44 am

Spouse did a job at the old WA facility that faces Century and said he was told DL is going to invest $ and use that property more heavily. As they already park RON's overlooking Sepulveda this seems to make sense. (I miss seeing the old TW hangar when we fly out on the 24's. Had lots of good memories parking there and taking the bus to T3 to get on a flight out).
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:37 am

piedmont762 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The sCO 1970s base and various investments made on it over the years is far more modern facility than the 1950s circa oversized sheds and half bays that existed on the sUA side.


Seems like the complaining might be more about the loss of a "sCO" facility in favor of legacy United facilities. Face it - both are old facilities, they are just trying to save some money by cutting down space.

Right. Exactly. Loosing two wide body hangars and three other bays, and moving to an unusable facility isn't what matters. It's about Continental. Should have known.
 
JHwk
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:43 pm

Wasn't LAWA going to re-develop the whole south side of WW West? From an airport planning perspective, it seems much more logical to have maintenance facilities on the west side and logistics and passenger facing facilities on the east side. I guess with the APM not on Century though the south side of Century becomes less accessible.

Is this a long-term lease or 7-10 years?
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:12 pm

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The sCO 1970s base and various investments made on it over the years is far more modern facility than the 1950s circa oversized sheds and half bays that existed on the sUA side.


Seems like the complaining might be more about the loss of a "sCO" facility in favor of legacy United facilities. Face it - both are old facilities, they are just trying to save some money by cutting down space.

Right. Exactly. Loosing two wide body hangars and three other bays, and moving to an unusable facility isn't what matters. It's about Continental. Should have known.


Unusable? United has made some very dumb decisions over the last 6 years but in terms of MX facilities, this is a non issue.
 
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:25 pm

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The sCO 1970s base and various investments made on it over the years is far more modern facility than the 1950s circa oversized sheds and half bays that existed on the sUA side.


Seems like the complaining might be more about the loss of a "sCO" facility in favor of legacy United facilities. Face it - both are old facilities, they are just trying to save some money by cutting down space.

Right. Exactly. Loosing two wide body hangars and three other bays, and moving to an unusable facility isn't what matters. It's about Continental. Should have known.


Not sure why it matters whether the sUA site is from 1950 or 1970 as they plan on redeveloping that site and at the very least adding another hangar. New is almost always better than 1950 or 1970 :) Unusable isn't really accurate either as UA has clearly been making it work since 1950....

Reading through the lease it sounds like UA is working with LAWA on coming up with a site plan for the sUA site...assuming they will consolidate MX at the sCO site while they redevelop the sUA site. Seems to be the right choice for UA especially with UAs SFOMX center just up the road.
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LAXintl
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:52 pm

Related, LAWA and United have just reached agreement whereby UA will vacate leasehold over the 4 ex CO gates in Terminal 6 being subleased to AA in return for $36mil in rental reduction through 2025.
Total current gates under UA master lease will now drop to 20 from 24, though the current T7/8 remodel project will see changes in gate configuration by late 2017.
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alasizon
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Related, LAWA and United have just reached agreement whereby UA will vacate leasehold over the 4 ex CO gates in Terminal 6 being subleased to AA in return for $36mil in rental reduction through 2025.
Total current gates under UA master lease will now drop to 20 from 24, though the current T7/8 remodel project will see changes in gate configuration by late 2017.

So is AA assuming the leases on the T6 gates or is LAWA holding onto them for now and just charging a use fee to AA?
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LAXintl
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:57 pm

LAWA retains ownership of the gates. AA will eventually vacate the gates as part of airline relocations for the DL T2/3 move.
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papatango
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:41 pm

What is the timetable for the Delta terminal moveable?
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:13 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Related, LAWA and United have just reached agreement whereby UA will vacate leasehold over the 4 ex CO gates in Terminal 6 being subleased to AA in return for $36mil in rental reduction through 2025.
Total current gates under UA master lease will now drop to 20 from 24, though the current T7/8 remodel project will see changes in gate configuration by late 2017.


The drop of 4 gates are the same gates they leased to AA, right? So net is no change in the number of gates in use by UA?

Will the 7/8 remodel change the number of gates or just the class of planes they can handle?
 
JeffinMass
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:31 pm

Aren't those UA hangars coming down anyway due to terminal construction?
 
aaway
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:34 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
The drop of 4 gates are the same gates they leased to AA, right? So net is no change in the number of gates in use by UA?
Will the 7/8 remodel change the number of gates or just the class of planes they can handle?


UA recently embarked on a gate modification project in T8 that, ultimately, will reduce the number of gates in operation by one. UA will have a portfolio of 19 gates with the facility and lease modifications.
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alasizon
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:59 pm

aaway wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
The drop of 4 gates are the same gates they leased to AA, right? So net is no change in the number of gates in use by UA?
Will the 7/8 remodel change the number of gates or just the class of planes they can handle?


UA recently embarked on a gate modification project in T8 that, ultimately, will reduce the number of gates in operation by one. UA will have a portfolio of 19 gates with the facility and lease modifications.


Correct me if I am wrong but the reduction of one gate was a result of resizing and actually allowed them to increase the number of large RJs correct?
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LAXintl
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Re: United to cut LAX facility footprint further

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:27 am

JeffinMass wrote:
Aren't those UA hangars coming down anyway due to terminal construction?


No. You might be confused with the AA superbay whose footprint would be in the way of eventual south wing of a midfield satellite concourse

alasizon wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but the reduction of one gate was a result of resizing and actually allowed them to increase the number of large RJs correct?


No, its to make room for more 737-800/900 capable gates. Less RJs.
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