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N717TW
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
N717TW wrote:
[

The more likely situation, in the short term is slowly merging brand identities in soft-products. You are already seeing this with the LH Group and AF-KL outside their home markets where check-in desks, lounges, etc are slowly being combined under one brand or under a joint brand. I would expect that at some point we'll see "Senator Lounge" and "Galleries Lounge" being the respective brand for all airlines in the respective company. Club World might become the universal brand for IAG business class and then you start to see things without an Iberia or BA logo but with a "Club World" logo.



IAG has already said that they want the same interior across BA/IB/EI. I'd imagine with I2 and VY as well.



Frankly its what makes the most sense. Create products for cost/income/luxury levels and use the brand for regional differences for same or nearly exact same product. This is exactly what Unileaver (Hellmann's vs. Bestfoods mayo), P&G (Dawn dishsoap vs Fairy) and Frito-Lay (Lay's vs. Walkers) do.
 
jumpjets
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:55 pm

Perhaps only tangentially relevant to this post but the following many have some relevance....

I was at the British Museum here in London on Friday night and looking at a list of sponsors/participants connected with a forthcoming exhibition about South Africa and the logistics [presumably connected with shipping in artefacts] is provided by IAG Cargo. I am sure if this was a couple of years back it would have said BA Cargo - so if in this context IAG are happy to promote the IAG Cargo brand ahead of the native BA brand it may not be so unforeseeable that the passenger side might move in a similar way and we might see IAG brand name headlining with 'operated by...[chose your IAG airline] in small decals under the nose, as is commonly seen on the various franchises that operate around the world.
 
sas931
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:03 pm

I must admit that I doubt you will some of the larger carriers "enrol" smaller national carriers into one big one....It is all national carriers, that are involved and I guess that there is a certain
proudness in having your own airline.
I cant see Swiss or Austrian with Lufthansa colours,, both countries will protest loudly....
 
ytz
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:19 pm

Instead of getting rid of airline brands, I'd be happier to see more consistency. For example, common J seat and service standard across all the full-service carriers of the LH group.

They can also do more with common colours, uniforms, lounges, and ground services, on the customer facing side. And with on combining things like technical services, training, etc. On the in-house side.

The public may not accept the loss of brands. But it would happily cheer on more consistency.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:37 pm

I believe it will happen, eventually. It's a natural progression. It's happened in every industry under the sun, so why should the airline industry be any different? Brand recognition is all well and good, until that brand becomes damaged, or devalued. We've already seen this with Germanwings. A major accident at one of the subsidiaries would be a great excuse to start sending aircraft to the paintshop. Personally though, I think economics will dictate this more than anything. Come the next big downturn or economic crash it will be one of the first things the beancounters will look at.
 
BA174
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:50 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
N717TW wrote:
[

The more likely situation, in the short term is slowly merging brand identities in soft-products. You are already seeing this with the LH Group and AF-KL outside their home markets where check-in desks, lounges, etc are slowly being combined under one brand or under a joint brand. I would expect that at some point we'll see "Senator Lounge" and "Galleries Lounge" being the respective brand for all airlines in the respective company. Club World might become the universal brand for IAG business class and then you start to see things without an Iberia or BA logo but with a "Club World" logo.



IAG has already said that they want the same interior across BA/IB/EI. I'd imagine with I2 and VY as well.


I don't believe they have actually said that but rather a standardised and easily exchangeable equipment set up across the Airbus A320 family in IAG was what was mentioned in the investors day slides. As BA/EI/IB/VY all serve different markets with the first three being global very strong corporate brands encorperated into the cabin designs I doubt you will ever see an IAG generic interior. BA certainly seem to like sticking the Speedmarque everywhere and likewise EI with the Shamrock, even more so recently with BAs latest short haul J/Y and long haul F products.

BA/IB/EI hold far too much brand recognition and loyalty in their respective countries and overseas markets, for IAG to dissolve them all and operate under a neutral new meaningless brand would make absolutely no sense at all and would likely have a detrimental impact on the business.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:06 am

N717TW wrote:
ei146 wrote:
The more likely situation, in the short term is slowly merging brand identities in soft-products. You are already seeing this with the LH Group and AF-KL outside their home markets where check-in desks, lounges, etc are slowly being combined under one brand or under a joint brand. I would expect that at some point we'll see "Senator Lounge" and "Galleries Lounge" being the respective brand for all airlines in the respective company. Club World might become the universal brand for IAG business class and then you start to see things without an Iberia or BA logo but with a "Club World" logo.

You certainly already see the back office functions are completely merged. One call center handles all calls for all brands in that language....one minute the operator answers "thank you for calling Swiss" and answers the next call with "thank you for calling Austrian Airlines." The same with purchasing, finance, maintenance, stores, etc.


This is where it starts. Next comes a pooled fleet, with aircraft allocated as needed. This makes perfect economic sense and is inevitable (to some degree), with possibly smaller core fleets remaining painted in the various airlines' liveries. This will be reviewed over time, for sure, and over time IMHO the individual airlines will eventually disappear as the new brands become more established, so there will be no names suddenly vanishing, just disappearing quietly over a long period of time (of course a fatal accident could change all that very quickly).
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:27 am

Just made a note in my calendar: October 21, 2036: check if LH is still around. If yes, log in on a.net and post "I told you!!!!"


Or just check out the Starfleet Museum. ;)

http://www.starfleet-museum.org/bison.htm
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:49 am

I agree that the major brands, by which I basically mean BA/IB, AF/KL, and LH/LX are likely to survive for the foreseeable future. I do suspect, however, that we may see some rationalization of the more regional brands (Air Dolomiti, Edelweiss, etc.) into the parent companies. Branding also requires consistency, and that is something much easier done with craft beers than small regional airlines. We've already seen as much with Malev. There is also the recent EU crackdown on state-subsidized airlines, which has claimed quite a few victims recently (e.g., Cyprus Airways and Estonian Air). In the case of Malev, a combination of LCCs and the majors expanded into the home market, and we'll almost certainly see the same thing with the others; indeed, I think we're already seeing Aegean becoming Cyprus' de facto national carrier.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:34 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
N717TW wrote:
ei146 wrote:
The more likely situation, in the short term is slowly merging brand identities in soft-products. You are already seeing this with the LH Group and AF-KL outside their home markets where check-in desks, lounges, etc are slowly being combined under one brand or under a joint brand. I would expect that at some point we'll see "Senator Lounge" and "Galleries Lounge" being the respective brand for all airlines in the respective company. Club World might become the universal brand for IAG business class and then you start to see things without an Iberia or BA logo but with a "Club World" logo.

You certainly already see the back office functions are completely merged. One call center handles all calls for all brands in that language....one minute the operator answers "thank you for calling Swiss" and answers the next call with "thank you for calling Austrian Airlines." The same with purchasing, finance, maintenance, stores, etc.


This is where it starts. Next comes a pooled fleet, with aircraft allocated as needed. This makes perfect economic sense and is inevitable (to some degree), with possibly smaller core fleets remaining painted in the various airlines' liveries. This will be reviewed over time, for sure, and over time IMHO the individual airlines will eventually disappear as the new brands become more established, so there will be no names suddenly vanishing, just disappearing quietly over a long period of time (of course a fatal accident could change all that very quickly).


I agree on the pooled fleet and am surprised it hasn't happened yet, particularly with short-hop intra-western Europe service. I am shocked that LH Group and AF/KL haven't done this with their regional/short-haul units yet where Cityhopper/HOP! and CityLine are the universal aircraft brands for small regional flying (e.g. PRG to FRA/MUC/ZRH/VIE or similar moves between CDG and AMS). I would imagine you jump on a plane from CDG to MAN and its "Hop! by Air France" and then plane then turns to AMS as "KLM Hop!" You can still keep the "nationalized" brands in tach and frankly the mainline European big-3 aren't really selling short-haul European as standalone routes as much as using them to feed intercontinental operations--so the slight brand change maters less.
 
b6sea
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Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:26 pm

I think it's more likely that we'll see the individual airline brands continue to exist with the low-cost product and the lessons learned from that product being wrapped into the legacy product. For example, I don't think we'll lose the Lufthansa brand, but we'll see a Lufthansa that looks a lot more like Eurowings. To get rid of the Lufthansa brand is pretty crazy because it has a prestige to most consumers that Eurowings simply doesn't, and that's something that has been built over time. If you have to choose between them, the brand that people know and that means something to people is going to stay.

As far as maintaining the local brands, I think you'll see them continue as long as they make sense to keep around. I think that if Lufthansa Group axed the Swiss or Austrian brands and started operating the routes from VIE or ZRH as LH (or Eurowings) I think they would find their product was less compelling to consumers and would ultimately lose more than they would gain from bringing it all under one roof. The goodwill they're able to garner from local governments and labor unions by keeping the individual identities probably plays a role in this as well to varying degrees.

That said, these regional brands are inevitably going to look more and more like the Lufthansa or Eurowings product, you see that time and time again in multi-brand companies, and I think it has diminishing returns at some point. When your products begin to become indistinguishable, you lose something and then the brands either get axed or (preferably) they are given a greater degree of independence and autonomy to make decisions. When you have strong brands within your company it seems like a real waste to not allow those brands to distinguish themselves in the marketplace, but time and time again you see companies shutter iconic brands, which really speaks to a lack of leadership and creativity on the parts of those companies, in my opinion.
 
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Braybuddy
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

Re: Will any of the European big 3 (Lufthansa Group, AFKLM, IAG) unite under a single brand.

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:35 pm

b6sea wrote:
As far as maintaining the local brands, I think you'll see them continue as long as they make sense to keep around.

Yup. Why would it be otherwise? No brand is so iconic that it cannot disappear: remember Pan Am, TWA, Sabena and Swissair?

jumpjets wrote:
I was at the British Museum here in London on Friday night and looking at a list of sponsors/participants connected with a forthcoming exhibition about South Africa and the logistics [presumably connected with shipping in artefacts] is provided by IAG Cargo. I am sure if this was a couple of years back it would have said BA Cargo - so if in this context IAG are happy to promote the IAG Cargo brand ahead of the native BA brand it may not be so unforeseeable that the passenger side might move in a similar way and we might see IAG brand name headlining with 'operated by...[chose your IAG airline] in small decals under the nose, as is commonly seen on the various franchises that operate around the world.

This is interesting. In 1939 Imperial Airways merged into BOAC. Had a.net been around at the time there would have been howls of derision about an iconic brand being turned into a mere acronym. So with IAG getting more and more recognition it is not inconceivable that BA/EI/VY will eventually be branded simply as IAG.

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